TAKE THAT! Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney smashes the prosecution!

Krankees

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He's a little lower on my priority list but I'm also supporting Phoenix! Played all the main games so far.

I'm real curious (and sorry if this has been discussed before) but what did you guys think of SOJ? Like or dislike? I actually quite liked it but it seems a lot of AA spaces online weren't fans of it. I can definitely understand why people wouldn't be fans of it (time for Rayfa to dance again!)
I haven't played it yet but knowing me, I'll probably play it and still enjoy it anyway despite a lot of other people not liking it.
 

Sonsa

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I like Spirit of Justice, I skipped the dance everytime and don't like spiritual settings, plus its Case 1 may be the worst in the series (not terrible, just...I definitely like the others more) but Case 2 is great, Case 3 was nice and actually surprised me, Case 4 had some cool moments, and Case 5 gave me one of the best shocks in the entire series among some other fun! Oh, and I really liked the DLC case. Nahyuta is my least favorite prosecutor but his theme music is great, the 3D models still look awkward to me especially on Apollo and Phoenix but they're more polished and look great sometimes, a lot of great tracks, a lot of ehh tracks because I'm not into the spiritual (?) sounding stuff, but overall, yeah, liked it!
 

Dukemon102

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I enjoyed every case of SoJ except Turnabout Storyteller
for butchering Athena's character development from DD just for laughs and making Blackquill look badass when he doesn't need the downgrade of other characters to be like that. Also, wasted potential with such an interesting setting for a crime scene and characters that I didn't get to meet at all because it was all rushed.
and the second half of Turnabout Revolution
for taking so long to get to the point and after such long setup we end up with a villain that doesn't live up to the expectations and so many ridiculous plot revelations one after the other, that after so many, they didn't really pack a punch, I forgot almost all of them except for Dhurke's death. And that's because he had a great introduction and screentime with Apollo in the first part. So it was actually meaningful to me.
and DLC which is just so vanilla and underdeveloped compared to any case ever, it's almost like Yamazaki didn't feel any inspiration or love for the series anymore. I liked the rest of the cases. 6-1 did a good job introducing the new court mechanics into the mix.

6-2 and 6-3 were specially great to me. They felt like the prime Japanifornia / Khura'in cases they were promoting in the advertising. I just wish they could have capitalized more on personal cases like those instead of going for such bombastic and ridiculous final cases.

I'm playing DGS case 3 and so far. It feels like the game I'm asking for.... for now....
 

KillerCage

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I enjoyed every case of SoJ except Turnabout Storyteller
for butchering Athena's character development from DD just for laughs and making Blackquill look badass when he doesn't need the downgrade of other characters to be like that. Also, wasted potential with such an interesting setting for a crime scene and characters that I didn't get to meet at all because it was all rushed.
and the second half of Turnabout Revolution
for taking so long to get to the point and after such long setup we end up with a villain that doesn't live up to the expectations and so many ridiculous plot revelations one after the other, that after so many, they didn't really pack a punch, I forgot almost all of them except for Dhurke's death. And that's because he had a great introduction and screentime with Apollo in the first part. So it was actually meaningful to me.
and DLC which is just so vanilla and underdeveloped compared to any case ever, it's almost like Yamazaki didn't feel any inspiration or love for the series anymore. I liked the rest of the cases. 6-1 did a good job introducing the new court mechanics into the mix.

6-2 and 6-3 were specially great to me. They felt like the prime Japanifornia / Khura'in cases they were promoting in the advertising. I just wish they could have capitalized more on personal cases like those instead of going for such bombastic and ridiculous final cases.

I'm playing DGS case 3 and so far. It feels like the game I'm asking for.... for now....
You are not the only one who didn't like 6-4 and the latter half of 6-5.
Spirit of Justice's DLC case did wash the horrid taste out of my system, but it couldn't undo the damage.
To this today, SoJ is my least favorite main-series Ace Attorney game.
 

WingedSupernova

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Gotta disagree with the both of you there. Yeah, it had its weak points, but SoJ probably has one of my favorite villains in case 6-2, and 6-3 was so special to me for quite a few reasons. The development with Rayfa throughout the game was also incredibly special and case 6-5 sucker punched me harder than I ever have been by an AA game. One of my favorites in the whole series.
 

KillerCage

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Gotta disagree with the both of you there. Yeah, it had its weak points, but SoJ probably has one of my favorite villains in case 6-2, and 6-3 was so special to me for quite a few reasons. The development with Rayfa throughout the game was also incredibly special and case 6-5 sucker punched me harder than I ever have been by an AA game. One of my favorites in the whole series.
I actually think Rayfa is the BEST thing about SoJ especially because of her character development.
I can't say the same thing for this game's prosecutor (his "redemption" or "heel-face turn wasn't earned in my eyes.)
I still consider Dual Destinies my favorite of the series to this day regardless of the wonky grammar.
 

Hadokeyblade

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I hated spirit of justice, the concepts it introduced could have worked if they were in different games but with this game they tried doing to much at the same time, as a result nothing feels properly developed.

Makes me think of the rise of Skywalker oddly enough
 
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MissingGlitch

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I think Spirit of Justice might be the only game I didn't get around to finishing. I beat the first half, was starting to lose interest, life got busy, and I just never picked it up again. It's been awhile so I really don't want to replay from the start but I'll have no idea what's going on if I try playing where I left off.
 

SNEKeater

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Wow. I thought people here would like more SoJ. I already bought it and I guess I will start it soon, I barely know nothing about the game besides Maya's return and the new prosecutor but I expect to like it a lot.
 

GoodGrief741

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I'm probably the only person who likes 6-4. I'd much rather have a straightforward case like that than the gimmicky Khurain stuff.
 

WingedSupernova

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I'm probably the only person who likes 6-4. I'd much rather have a straightforward case like that than the gimmicky Khurain stuff.
6-4 contains my favorite objection theme in the whole series and the characters introduced were memorable.
 

Flyboy

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I hated spirit of justice, the concepts it introduced could have worked if they were in different games but with this game they tried doing to much at the same time, as a result nothing feels properly developed.

Makes me think of the rise of Skywalker oddly enough
I actually make this exact same comparison. It's so caught up in trying to be what "worked" that it completely screws over everything interesting the previous two games introduced. It's so lifeless as a result. I wish I could rescue The Magical Turnabout and put it in a better game. It basically listened to a vocal minority, course-corrected things that didn't need course-correcting, relegated interesting characters to bit parts, and pleased no one as a result.

It's a complicated beast for sure. 6-4 has incredible music and a very memorable setting (and I really enjoy Uendo). 6-3 could be good but the pacing is ****ing horrific. And the DLC was fun but really shows the major problem the game has with each case being made up of "Guy who did it" "Guy who didn't do it" and "Defendant".

Fantastic culprit, though.
 
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Jomosensual

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All this SoJ talk reminds how badly I want to play Apollo Justice. Hope it's coming to the switch soon because I hate playing games on my phone. Might have to see if I can find my DS back and get a game cheap
 

TheYungLink

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I liked Spirit of Justice a lot despite some of you sharing your issues with the game with me. I actually like the latter half of the final case of that game, though, didn't expect that to be an unpopular view on it.

Without spoiling anything about it, though, for anyone about to play it: it makes me really, REALLY hope that Phoenix Wright is not a major part of the next Ace Attorney game, specifically being one of the main characters. It should be Apollo, Athena, or someone new (though preferably the former two as they still need proper fleshing out).

If Phoenix Wright gets into Smash, I will consider that the perfect capstone to his legacy, and won't miss his theoretical absence (or, I won't miss him being in a starring role) in any future Ace Attorney games.
 

GoodGrief741

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I actually make this exact same comparison. It's so caught up in trying to be what "worked" that it completely screws over everything interesting the previous two games introduced. It's so lifeless as a result. I wish I could rescue The Magical Turnabout and put it in a better game. It basically listened to a vocal minority, course-corrected things that didn't need course-correcting, relegated interesting characters to bit parts, and pleased no one as a result.

It's a complicated beast for sure. 6-4 has incredible music and a very memorable setting (and I really enjoy Uendo). 6-3 could be good but the pacing is ****ing horrific. And the DLC was fun but really shows the major problem the game has with each case being made up of "Guy who did it" "Guy who didn't do it" and "Defendant".

Fantastic culprit, though.
An amazing character, that one. Really, the most memorable part of the whole game to me, and one of the one-off characters I like the most. And to be fair with that case, while it ultimately falls victim to the three-character formula, for a while it honestly kept me guessing as to who would be the culprit, as both appeared innocent enough.

But damn, I'm really feeling the TROS comparisons now. Guess SoJ showed us the perils of reckless fanservice way before that. Huh.
 

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I actually loved Spirit of Justice a lot, it might even be my favourite in the series. 6-4 is one of my favourite filler cases and I already played this case 4 times since 2016, because it is such an enjoyable case with a great character cast. I don't understand at all why people don't like 6-4, maybe because it is "too Japanese"?

The animations in SoJ are so crisp, the story (especially the final case) is excellent, the plottwists are superb, the soundtrack is incredible and all the cases are excellent!!
One of the few things I didn't like about SoJ was the lackluster prosecutor, but apart from that I can't gush enough over how much I love this game.
 
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ThunderSageNun

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I don't understand at all why people don't like 6-4, maybe because it is "too Japanese"?
After 4-2 and 5-2 that had very japanese concepts like the noodles cart and the tengu/typical japanese feudal village, I don't think being too japanese flies by as the issue (besides the entire concept of the Fey clan?)
It's just a poorly placed case that doesn't contribute anything to the overarching plot. Did you see how 6-3 finished? Putting filler right after that sounds like a trope ripped straight out of a long running shonen. I can't say anything about the case felt special either, not the characters, not the twists, and especially not the defendant or antagonist. I can't say it did anything to show Athena growing as an attorney either, I really want the girl to be shown in a better light in court.
 

fogbadge

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I don't understand at all why people don't like 6-4, maybe because it is "too Japanese"?
cant be that, there plenty of very popular things that could be described as very japanese

i seem to recall that the reason we didnt get wario ware overseas at first was cause they were worried it was too japanese
 

Hadokeyblade

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An amazing character, that one. Really, the most memorable part of the whole game to me, and one of the one-off characters I like the most. And to be fair with that case, while it ultimately falls victim to the three-character formula, for a while it honestly kept me guessing as to who would be the culprit, as both appeared innocent enough.

But damn, I'm really feeling the TROS comparisons now. Guess SoJ showed us the perils of reckless fanservice way before that. Huh.
Dual destinies also always gave me last Jedi vibes a bit. A different director comes in and tries to do his own thing, the characters get horribly flanderized as a result.
 

zumaddy

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Thanks for all the SOJ opinions guys, just the responses I was looking for :)

I personally would rank the post-OT main games as AJ-SOJ-DD personally. But there's things of worth in each and I hope if Phoenix gets in he'll have a bit of stuff from each of them music and references wise. I really want Trucy as a stage cameo doing magic in the background lol.
 
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Dukemon102

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I would rank all the games like this:

AAI2 >= T&T > DD > AA1 > AAI > SoJ > JFA > AJ

I'm playing DGS right now and I'm impressed by how expressive the 3D models and animations are and how good the writing is. I missed Takumi's style but it's so easily recognizable as a longtime fan. Let see if the game can keep this good pace until the end.
 

Hadokeyblade

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I would rank all the games like this:

AAI2 >= T&T > DD > AA1 > AAI > SoJ > JFA > AJ

I'm playing DGS right now and I'm impressed by how expressive the 3D models and animations are and how good the writing is. I missed Takumi's style but it's so easily recognizable as a longtime fan. Let see if the game can keep this good pace until the end.
The DGS duology are easily some of the best games on 3DS. Such a shame the west never got them.
 

Bobthealligator

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I actually think Rayfa is the BEST thing about SoJ especially because of her character development.
I can't say the same thing for this game's prosecutor (his "redemption" or "heel-face turn wasn't earned in my eyes.)
I still consider Dual Destinies my favorite of the series to this day regardless of the wonky grammar.
While I disagree and think Dhurke was the best character, I do accept this answer as valid.
 

Flyboy

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Dual Destinies is tied as my favorite in the series because despite a few missteps it took some needed risks with the world and lore that still respected what came before it while introducing some awesome new main- and side-characters. The mysteries were fascinating, though I do think case 2 had some pacing problems partially due to how it starts, but it got really fun around the halfway point and the setting was very cool.

Spirit of Justice frustrates me because all the interesting characters and choices it had (Dhurke especially, Rayfa, everything 6-2 introduced, the DLC cast) wasn't worth drowning out everything that came before it while beating you over the head with "HEY, REMEMBER THIS? REMEMBER THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY? LOOK GUYS, REMEMBER THIS?". They also did Athena so dirty and yeah, she's my favorite, so I'm going to be biased because of how badly they treated her.

Like, guys, I've been playing the series for over a decade at this point. I know what happened in the trilogy already. I suffered through years of a fandom calling any new female character a "Maya clone". I remember the Apollo Justice backlash. Can we just move on? Dual Destinies hit that balance of fun callbacks to the past while still expanding the universe and sowing seeds for the future. That's why it hurts to see it regressing so hard in SOJ.

I really hope the next game is Athena Cykes: Ace Attorney. You have so many interesting characters from DD you can bring back in new roles, and there's always room for new characters. Build a new legacy. Let Phoenix be his fun dad self now that he's back on his feet. Stop escalating the stakes to the point that they have no actual personal merit. As good as a certain twist in SOJ's final case was, it was buried in between a hundred other twists that didn't work at all all surrounding a cast you only kinda cared about (and I really do think the whole thing would've been better if they had split the two parts into two different episodes, preventing fatigue). The bombastic excitement of AAI2 and DD only work because those twists are inexorably tied to those characters, therefore making the stakes more personal than "ha ha if you get a guilty in this country YOU DIE!!!".

Athena has plenty of room to grow and she doesn't need to be treated like garbage for it to happen like 6-4 and we don't need to make the stakes higher and higher and higher. She's had enough experience that she doesn't have to be hopeless but still young enough that simple premises like "defend your client!" can still work, especially since she has a more emotional way of bluffing through cases than Apollo or Phoenix's more analytical side. It's a great dynamic that could really add to the series if explored.
 
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Leotsune

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The DGS duology are easily some of the best games on 3DS. Such a shame the west never got them.
Hey we have the choice of importing JP copies, Im still waiting till the fan translation for DGS2 is completed so I can get an original copy.
That being said, by doing that we are actually supporting the japanese market so at the end of the day we aren't really doing that much to show capcom Ace Attorney actually has a fanbase here in the west, but hey at least we are supporting Gyakuten Saiban so its something i guess.
 

TheYungLink

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Flyboy and I are opposites, apparently.

I see Dual Destinies as the game that called back to the OT way too much, especially making Phoenix the star again, and heck, even having its final culprit writing-wise be very similar to the one from Gyakuten Kenji 2 and doing it in a much less impressive manner imho (they're both sociopaths, posing as someone you could initially trust, but one is a proper character and the other is a vague concept. The cameos from older games felt forced, particularly Edgeworth and Pearl, especially the latter, needing a DLC case that takes place earlier than her base game cameo to actually feel natural. Far from thinking it was bold risk, it was painfully safe, especially since they didn't flesh out Apollo by making him the main character like they should have since Apollo's own game sidelined him in favor of focusing on Phoenix.

Oh yeah, my biggest gripe: Apollo Justice's game implied that we would finally get court cases revolving around using a jury to decide a verdict, only for both DD and SoJ to completely ignore it. It took Shu Takumi being allowed to make his own Ace Attorney games again for us to finally see it (and both are Japanese-exclusive with only the first half having a complete fan translation atm. Argh!) Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney implied that Phoenix, correctly, saw the current law system in the games / Japan irl as systemically flawed, and needed fixing to better address certain criminals (it also favors prosecutors way too much, but the series doesn't seem to want to address this yet, unfortunately). For the next mainline 3DS games to completely ignore it and pretend Phoenix's disbarring and Blackquill's arrest were the sole causes of "the Dark Age of the law" was disingenuous to the core. That never made any damn sense, so many of past Ace Attorney culprits were government or law officials, why were Phoenix and Blackquill so significant that only their arrests marked a dark time? I hated it, it's exactly what happens when someone feels like they want a "fresh slate" by "going back to their roots" in the completely wrong way. They knew AJ's conclusion meant the old formula wouldn't 100% work anymore and decided to go back to the old formula anyway by pretending that conclusion didn't happen.

I say all this and Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney is my second least favorite game in the series, because while I didn't like it and thought it was clumsy, I respected the hell out of what it might have looked like it was trying to do. DD is my least favorite, it felt, more than much else, like it was running away from what Apollo Justice laid out despite having Apollo back in the game and even giving him a friend we didn't see before until now (since AJ was overall very disinterested in him in favor of Phoenix and the Gramaryes.

Aside from that, while I agree the "raising stakes" of the series reached a bad point with SoJ, I disagree with the callbacks JUST being there to make you go "hey, remember this". In particular, I went in thinking Maya's return would be done very cynically, but she's implemented in a way that feels natural (continued in spoilers)

and Maya even stops being important after the third case, which even has Phoenix fail initially with everything going wrong until a deus ex machina gives him another chance. Maya is partly there to make you think everything will turn out alright like it always does but it's the opposite, with the conclusion of the case having major repurcussions leading to the final case stuff which a regular trilogy case tended not to do. Maya is a proxy for a bigger plot point revolving Dhurke in the second half of the final case, and that's about it. for her relevance It's firmly Apollo's story by then, which, in a game where he isn't in the main title, is actually really bold imo. Another callback is that we get to go back to Kurain Village, but, again, it's squarely from Apollo's perspective, who has no real connection to the place like Phoenix did, with only Pearl being the returning character in the first half of the final case until it's revealed that you're going up against Phoenix in court.

Now, I wholeheartedly admit it: the Phoenix stuff in that part is bad. I hated that they recycled the final case of Justice for All again, even using a Maya kidnapping plot, to explain Phoenix defending a creep politician. They clearly wanted an "Apollo faces his teacher in court" moment as part of the game's grand finale, but it's so forced. It's the one callback in the game to the original trilogy I despise. I also think Edgeworth coming back to provide a ride to Khuraiin is kind of shoehorned in, he's more of a plot device in SoJ than a guiding force in the story, though, so it feels harmless to me.

Unlike the DD DLC case, the SoJ DLC case is way, way, way too focused on going "Hey, remember the good ol' days, with JUST Phoenix, Maya, and Edgeworth? No, you won't get ANY scenes with them interacting in any meaningful way with Trucy or Athena." Bleh. Ironic how it's more original than DD's DLC case (a redo of the controversial circus case of Justice for All) but feels more derivative in spirit.

Overall, I can see why people feel SoJ calls back to the original trilogy too much, but I'm less harsh on it because I feel there are only two big instances of that. You can argue those instances existing at all are a stain on the game and I couldn't really argue with you there, but I think the callbacks are very tasteful aside from that. Note that this is all coming from someone who wanted the series to move forward and not look back after Apollo Justice and still hasn't quite gotten that.

About Athena

I agree that Athena was done dirty. She gets one case (an admittedly great one!) where she gets supported by Blackquill and doesn't really develop as a character much at all. However, I think this is a symptom of Dual Destinies not being a continuation of Apollo's story in the first place and introducing a third lawyer instead. In general I think Athena as a character was introduced way too early, she's developed in DD where Apollo is underdeveloped, and Apollo is the center of SoJ's story while Athena is underdeveloped. It's a shame, and it's why I firmly believe that the next Ace Attorney games need to focus firmly on Apollo, Athena, or someone new. No more Phoenix, I found it tolerable in SoJ but his sticking around is real egregious at this point, his story finished long ago. Make him the Mia to Athena's Phoenix if Capcom is truly sticking with Apollo staying in Khuraiin, that way they can still advertise his presence but can focus squarely on Athena from now on.

Lastly, Prosecutor Sahdmadhi sucks. He is the Edgeworth to Apollo's Phoenix but he's more boring

and his redemption is questionable, given he was only acing like an asshole to cover up his real nature, supposedly. Is Ga'ran supposed to have spies watching his every move or something? I don't see why he needed to be such a jerk in Athena's case specifically.

One of my least favorite prosecutors in the series by far.

My current ranking of the series is

Gyakuten Kenji 2 = Trials and Tribulations > Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney > Justice for All > Spirit of Justice > Ace Attorney Investigations: MIles Edgeworth > Apollo Justice > Dual Destinies

I don't plan on playing the Professor Layton crossover since I'm not big on his games, and I've only played one half of Dai Gyakuten Saiban since the fan translation for the sequel isn't finished yet, so I'm not grading the latter.

Edit: I want to clarify that this isn't an attack on your opinion or anything, Flyboy! I just wanted to voice my opinion since it ended up being pretty different to yours. I don't believe your opinion is bad, nor that my opinion is more right than yours.

I spent so long on this post only to neglect to make a disclaimer this important, oof. I'm guilty. *judge gavel sound*
 
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zumaddy

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I'm with you guys, I really hope Phoenix isn't a main protag in the next one. Have him be the wise mentor who still can be kind of goofy, but a good dad to Trucy. I think it's Athena's time to shine, I just don't know if the AA team is ready to bet on her having a focused game.
 

WingedSupernova

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Please have Kay show up somehow in the next game I need her to not be forgotten.
 

Krankees

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Maybe I'm just blind to the poorly written stuff in the grander story or something, but I ended up enjoying all of the Ace Attorney games except for SoJ because I haven't played that one yet. I don't really dislike any of them although I still like some more than others. Apollo Justice and Dual Destinies aren't my favorite games in the franchise and sure the story starts to make less sense when you look back on it. However, I still enjoyed them a lot and still regard them as good Ace Attorney games. I also never really hated a third case in any of the games, even if they didn't make sense. Not even Apollo's third case as I only got annoyed with the gameplay gimmick. Maybe I shouldn't be so carefree about the quality of my Ace Attorney game, but I can't really bring myself to be mad at any of them. Who knows, maybe Spirit of Justice will be the first one I truly do not like. But I hope that isn't the case and I do still like it.
 
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fogbadge

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I'm with you guys, I really hope Phoenix isn't a main protag in the next one. Have him be the wise mentor who still can be kind of goofy, but a good dad to Trucy. I think it's Athena's time to shine, I just don't know if the AA team is ready to bet on her having a focused game.
well considering how much people complained the one main series game he wasnt it aint happening
 

ThunderSageNun

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I'd be down for Athena getting her main game, where you know, she actually has more than 1 case where she plays the attorney role? I just want her to gain some confidence man.
Maybe I'm just blind to the poorly written stuff in the grander story or something, but I ended up enjoying all of the Ace Attorney games except for SoJ because I haven't played that one yet. I don't really dislike any of them although I still like some more than others. Apollo Justice and Dual Destinies aren't my favorite games in the franchise and sure the story starts to make less sense when you look back on it. However, I still enjoyed them a lot and still regard them as good Ace Attorney games. I also never really hated a third case in any of the games, even if they didn't make sense. Not even Apollo's third case as I only got annoyed with the gameplay gimmick. Maybe I shouldn't be so carefree about the quality of my Ace Attorney game, but I can't really bring myself to be mad at any of them. Who knows, maybe Spirit of Justice will be the first one I truly do not like. But I hope that isn't the case and I do still like it.
That's probably all that should matter to you, and I don't think this is a site like gamefaqs where people will call you out for liking something controversial or go "I'm enlightened and you're all wrong about this series" sort of logic. I'll also say that just about every post OG trilogy game has been controversial to some extent, as I've heard very mixed comments about every localized game after that (and apparently JFA falls onto that category as well but I haven't read as many mixed feelings towards it compared to the other entries).
 
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Dukemon102

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well considering how much people complained the one main series game he wasnt it aint happening
That was a different time. AJ was the first game in the series to ever replace Phoenix. I know that T&T had you play as another laywers but that was all linked to the plot the game was telling, so it didn't bother anyone. The quality of AJ (Subjective but I know that many people didn't enjoy the plot and writing) didn't help at all. Then the AAI games happened (Well, to be fair, that's Edgeworth, he is probably more popular than Phoenix anyway), DD, SoJ and the DGS games all made us play as different characters. So I think people today would be way more open to substitute Phoenix permanently.

I didn't like Apollo in AJ (What was to like anyway? He was a blank state). But his character arc in DD and then SoJ's 2nd case made him my favorite character to play as. Also most of Phoenix's dialogue and court antics felt stale by that point and they had to regress him to a novice to make him work (Even if it makes kind of sense for a retired attorney coming back after 8 years, it's a contradiction to his completely different characterization in AJ.).

I love Athena, I wish we could get a game only of her because her style of defending always brings a smile to my face.
I also love playing as Ryunoske right now. Maybe because attitude-wise he is so similar to me to the point he feels like a self-insert? Anyway, the more varied characters we play as, the better for me.
 

Michael the Spikester

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2018
Messages
16,895
Location
Canada
Switch FC
SW-0818-8347-0203
The chances might be against Wright right now but I'm still really pulling for him!

He's still among my most wanted currently alongside Crash and Elma. Doom Slayer was also but he's unfortunately been deconfirmed.
 

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
10,565
Location
Scotland
That was a different time. AJ was the first game in the series to ever replace Phoenix. I know that T&T had you play as another laywers but that was all linked to the plot the game was telling, so it didn't bother anyone. The quality of AJ (Subjective but I know that many people didn't enjoy the plot and writing) didn't help at all. Then the AAI games happened (Well, to be fair, that's Edgeworth, he is probably more popular than Phoenix anyway), DD, SoJ and the DGS games all made us play as different characters. So I think people today would be way more open to substitute Phoenix permanently.

I didn't like Apollo in AJ (What was to like anyway? He was a blank state). But his character arc in DD and then SoJ's 2nd case made him my favorite character to play as. Also most of Phoenix's dialogue and court antics felt stale by that point and they had to regress him to a novice to make him work (Even if it makes kind of sense for a retired attorney coming back after 8 years, it's a contradiction to his completely different characterization in AJ.).

I love Athena, I wish we could get a game only of her because her style of defending always brings a smile to my face.
I also love playing as Ryunoske right now. Maybe because attitude-wise he is so similar to me to the point he feels like a self-insert? Anyway, the more varied characters we play as, the better for me.
well the sort of reaction they got is the sort thatd probably make them very cautious about doing it again, personally i dont get what everyone was complaining about

you related to him? cant say i ever related to any video game character, whats he like?
 

Flyboy

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
4,460
Location
Dayton, OH
If anything, SoJ showed why it should happen. I think we've reached a point where we can have Phoenix in Smash and then move forward with him as the wise mentor in the series going forth.

I actually love Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney. For all its flaws it has such an incredibly deep and dark world and plot, beautiful graphics and sound, and the main villain is my favorite fictional villain ever.
 

SNEKeater

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
1,542
Without knowing what happens in Spirit of Justice I think that having Phoenix as a mentor and playing with him from time to time is cool. I liked his role in Apollo Justice, it reminded me of Metal Gear Solid 2 and I think it's a clever idea. Having another character as the playable one offers a different perspective around the figure of Phoenix. In MGS2, while it was a divisive discussion, it was very cool to see Snake from another angle and having him as a 'companion'.

I think it's a clever approach. It helps to increase the myth around the character if it's done in a proper way.
 

TheYungLink

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 29, 2018
Messages
1,448
If Phoenix was a Mii Fighter, I'd imagine that he'd be a Swordfighter using a replica of his arm with a pointer finger at the end. That, or like in Monster Hunter, a stick with an "Objection!" speech bubble on it.
 
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