TAKE THAT! Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney smashes the prosecution!

[TemporalShrew]

While I'm still going all in for a character spot, I could see Sonic being the character to use the Phoenix spirit only because they both have spikey hair pointing backwards

Their main color is also blue, in both cases.

Though when I say that, frankly, I realize that Sonic is more Blue Badger than Phoenix Wright.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

Phoenix would clearly be Falco as they're both birds and share the color blue and then that jokes doesn't fit the JP names at all

I feel like I'm only at all okay with Mii Fighter renditions of a character if that character would fight even remotely like that particular class of Mii Fighter were they to get in.

i.e.
Cuphead: Cool! He totally does fire projectiles from his fingertip as a primary means of combat, and the proportions are exactly right for him!
Phoenix: Not cool! Phoenix would break his legs trying to execute a burning drop kick and I highly doubt he could lift that shot put if he tried, let alone fighting by decking Mario clean in the face with an electrified punch. Additionally, there's no way you could get the proportions right for a normal human body, given the Mii Fighter's frame.

Yeah, this is how I feel about mii fighters in general too, I get the idea behind them, but I don't really like them at all, that's why I'd rather see my favorites given something like an AT treatment if they have to be disconfirmed, as at least they can throw some cool references to their franchise that way.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Kunio is so low-key worldwide, I don't see how this would affect Phoenix's chances. This is, like, the equivalent of Ghosts 'N Goblins getting a spirit event.

Also, why did Kobayashi not get in as a spirit? He just got his own spin-off...

 

[ThunderSageNun]

Kunio is so low-key worldwide, I don't see how this would affect Phoenix's chances. This is, like, the equivalent of Ghosts 'N Goblins getting a spirit event.

Nah, at least Arthur would get rid of some Capcom competition, insignificant as his chances were as the next rep for that company. The only character I could see benefiting or suffering from this situation is Sol as it means Nintendo got in contact with Arc System Works, and even then, it probably means absolutely nothing for him.
You know, thinking about Sakurai love for the more "classic" entries of a franchise, I wonder if they'd just reuse the GBA/DS objection clips for the courtroom if characters like Apollo and Edgeworth cameo in over getting their respective voice actors for whatever languages Smash supported again to record some new lines (Phoenix would clearly need new stuff as he'd need to record yells and the sort). I forget if we already discussed this before, but hey, it's on topic with AA.

 

[Dukemon102]

Nah, at least Arthur would get rid of some Capcom competition, insignificant as his chances were as the next rep for that company. The only character I could see benefiting or suffering from this situation is Sol as it means Nintendo got in contact with Arc System Works, and even then, it probably means absolutely nothing for him.
You know, thinking about Sakurai love for the more "classic" entries of a franchise, I wonder if they'd just reuse the GBA/DS objection clips for the courtroom if characters like Apollo and Edgeworth cameo in over getting their respective voice actors for whatever languages Smash supported again to record some new lines (Phoenix would clearly need new stuff as he'd need to record yells and the sort). I forget if we already discussed this before, but hey, it's on topic with AA.

I think they would re-use voice clips regardless of the classical approach or not. Because the Ace Attorney screams were dubbed to every single language the text was translated to. And re-dubbing all of that for cameos would be an insane amount of work and cost.

I just hope they re-use the old voice clips of Edgeworth if he gets cameos. Because every voice chosen for him after T&T was horrific.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

I just hope they re-use the old voice clips of Edgeworth if he gets cameos. Because every voice chosen for him after T&T was horrific.

yeaaaaah, I've had issues with every non Objection scream classic Edgeworth had, but his new VA just...kinda makes him sound obese and really doesn't fit him?

 

[Hinata]

yeaaaaah, I've had issues with every non Objection scream classic Edgeworth had, but his new VA just...kinda makes him sound obese and really doesn't fit him?

If you're talking about his Dual Destinies and Spirit of Justice VA, then fun fact: That's Kyle Hebert, the same dude who voices Ryu.

But anyway, I agree. I liked Edgeworth's old voice, because it had the exact pompous vibe I expected from Edgeworth.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

yeaaaaah, I've had issues with every non Objection scream classic Edgeworth had, but his new VA just...kinda makes him sound obese and really doesn't fit him?

If you're talking about his Dual Destinies and Spirit of Justice VA, then fun fact: That's Kyle Hebert, the same dude who voices Ryu.

But anyway, I agree. I liked Edgeworth's old voice, because it had the exact pompous vibe I expected from Edgeworth.

I don't dislike Kyle Hebert voicing Edgeworth, and I think he sounds decent in the animated cutscenes... but the "OBJECTION!" soundclip he provided makes Edgeworth sound "old". It honestly reminds me of Tom Kane voicing Magneto.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

Given that they aren't lying, after that tweet about Bethesda talking to Nintendo about Doomslayer in Smash but never being too serious about, I wonder if Banjo will end up being some sort of special case regarding western 3rd parties. I guess it doesn't matter much for Phoenix outside of "big requested character supposedly disconfirmed" to worry about remaining slots.

 

[Dukemon102]

Given that they aren't lying, after that tweet about Bethesda talking to Nintendo about Doomslayer in Smash but never being too serious about, I wonder if Banjo will end up being some sort of special case regarding western 3rd parties. I guess it doesn't matter much for Phoenix outside of "big requested character supposedly disconfirmed" to worry about remaining slots.

"If they aren't lying". All this thing about under NDA people lying, started because of Kirkhope didn't it? That's the thing. Grant Kirkhope never said Banjo and Kazooie weren't in or confirmed anything. He told us to "don't hold our breath".
Still. Someone directly related to the Doom franchise has way more authority and credibilty than an ex-composer that has no say on the rights of the IP.
They are not lying IMO. Otherwise this would be a serious violation to the NDA.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

"If they aren't lying". All this thing about under NDA people lying, started because of Kirkhope didn't it? That's the thing. Grant Kirkhope never said Banjo and Kazooie weren't in or confirmed anything. He told us to "don't hold our breath".
Still. Someone directly related to the Doom franchise has way more authority and credibilty than an ex-composer that has no say on the rights of the IP.
They are not lying IMO. Otherwise this would be a serious violation to the NDA.

oh I agree, I don't see why they'd lie and this guy should have much more info than Kirkhope (if he wasn't already contacted by Nintendo to do remixes at the time) regarding any potential collaboration between both companies. But I guess it's worth playing it safe given how vague these sort of comments can be.

 

[Jomosensual]

"If they aren't lying". All this thing about under NDA people lying, started because of Kirkhope didn't it? That's the thing. Grant Kirkhope never said Banjo and Kazooie weren't in or confirmed anything. He told us to "don't hold our breath".
Still. Someone directly related to the Doom franchise has way more authority and credibilty than an ex-composer that has no say on the rights of the IP.
They are not lying IMO. Otherwise this would be a serious violation to the NDA.

The thing with the Doom Guy one too is that he mentioned they had talks with Nintendo, which feels like a big violation of an NDA.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Given that they aren't lying, after that tweet about Bethesda talking to Nintendo about Doomslayer in Smash but never being too serious about, I wonder if Banjo will end up being some sort of special case regarding western 3rd parties. I guess it doesn't matter much for Phoenix outside of "big requested character supposedly disconfirmed" to worry about remaining slots.

God I hope Banjo isn't the exception. It would be stupid on Sakurai's part to completely ignore half of gaming history only because the company is stationed in America instead of Japan.

I know it's easier to talk with Japanese companies. But he has the resources to easily talk with an American company. Nintendo of America and translators exist for a reason.

 

[fogbadge]

God I hope Banjo isn't the exception. It would be stupid on Sakurai's part to completely ignore half of gaming history only because the company is stationed in America instead of Japan.

I know it's easier to talk with Japanese companies. But he has the resources to easily talk with an American company. Nintendo of America and translators exist for a reason.

to be fair banjo and kazooie are british, they are owned by an american company but they were made in britain

 

[MissingGlitch]

to be fair banjo and kazooie are british, they are owned by an american company but they were made in britain

Of course. But still most of the negotiating was done with Microsoft. So the point still kinda stands even though I left out the British part.

 

[fogbadge]

Of course. But still most of the negotiating was done with Microsoft. So the point still kinda stands even though I left out the British part.

it does, though i feel b&k are the best things to come out of british gaming so please do excuse my nitpcikyness

 

[Krankees]

I just played some more Dual Destinies and beat the third case. I enjoyed it and think it's a good case.

 

[SNEKeater]

I just played some more Dual Destinies and beat the third case. I enjoyed it and think it's a good case.

I also played DD recently. In fact, I finished the last case, and what a ride. The one you just played was really nice! At least for me.

I would say that while maybe the game is a bit easier or friendly than previous installments to put it in a way, it's maybe my 2nd or 3rd favourite AA game so far. I think that the game handles very well having multiple protagonists.

Next, Spirit of Justice.

 

[KirbyMonadoBoy]

I also played DD recently. In fact, I finished the last case, and what a ride. The one you just played was really nice! At least for me.

I would say that while maybe the game is a bit easier or friendly than previous installments to put it in a way, it's maybe my 2nd or 3rd favourite AA game so far. I think that the game handles very well having multiple protagonists.

Next, Spirit of Justice

I'm so glad to see Dual Destinies getting some deserved love. When I played Dual Destinies first, I also considered it as my 2nd favourite AA, right behind AA3. I also found Turnabout Academy very enjoyable, especially the cast of characters and the setting. You can definitely look forward to Spirit of Justice, that game is even better than Dual Destinies imo, especially the final case^^

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Of course. But still most of the negotiating was done with Microsoft. So the point still kinda stands even though I left out the British part.

it does, though i feel b&k are the best things to come out of british gaming so please do excuse my nitpcikyness

There is one hope: Crash Bandicoot.

That series is so huge in Japan that some of the decisions for the early games were influenced by fan demand, and SCEJ, and its flame got reignited after the success of NST.

Rumors for him being the next character are starting to come up, and the general consensus is that if we don't hear anything by the time the next general Direct airs, he'll almost certainly arrive in E3, during June, an important month for Crash.

He's the one character that would cause complete and utter confusion if he's passed over somehow, even with Japanese companies' character chances dropping like flies.

 

[fogbadge]

There is one hope: Crash Bandicoot.

That series is so huge in Japan that some of the decisions for the early games were influenced by fan demand, and SCEJ, and its flame got reignited after the success of NST.

Rumors for him being the next character are starting to come up, and the general consensus is that if we don't hear anything by the time the next general Direct airs, he'll almost certainly arrive in E3, during June, an important month for Crash.

He's the one character that would cause complete and utter confusion if he's passed over somehow, even with Japanese companies' character chances dropping like flies.

sure if you like crash

 

[ThunderSageNun]

There is one hope: Crash Bandicoot.

That series is so huge in Japan that some of the decisions for the early games were influenced by fan demand, and SCEJ, and its flame got reignited after the success of NST.

Rumors for him being the next character are starting to come up, and the general consensus is that if we don't hear anything by the time the next general Direct airs, he'll almost certainly arrive in E3, during June, an important month for Crash.

He's the one character that would cause complete and utter confusion if he's passed over somehow, even with Japanese companies' character chances dropping like flies.

that's one of the two western characters I feel could break whatever issue the "not popular in Japan" that's often brought up whenever those are discussed, the other being Steve for relatively obvious reasons. Now this was a 4chan post with no weight whatsoever (I don't even remember who they incorrectly guessed for the last 2 fighters), but I remember reading a long time ago one of those implying Nintendo tried to negotiate to have Crash in the game but Activision was asking for too much money, I'd kinda laugh at their level of greedness if that turned out to be true.
Also, did you mean JP or western devs at the end?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

that's one of the two western characters I feel could break whatever issue the "not popular in Japan" that's often brought up whenever those are discussed, the other being Steve for relatively obvious reasons. Now this was a 4chan post with no weight whatsoever (I don't even remember who they incorrectly guessed for the last 2 fighters), but I remember reading a long time ago one of those implying Nintendo tried to negotiate to have Crash in the game but Activision was asking for too much money, I'd kinda laugh at their level of greedness if that turned out to be true.
Also, did you mean JP or western devs at the end?

JP devs.

That said, anything from /v/ is to be taken with , especially if it's the kind of "rumor" that ages like milk. I mean, Sakurai had to negotiate with the most difficult man in the world just for some DQ music, this would be peanuts in comparison.

 

[TemporalShrew]

I mean, Sakurai had to negotiate with the most difficult man in the world just for some DQ music, this would be peanuts in comparison.

In fairness, you could argue he sort of "lost" that negotiation, seeing as he only managed to get the MIDI rips Sugiyama has "gifted" the West with since time immemorial.

 

[Inoj]

Thought you might like this.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

In fairness, you could argue he sort of "lost" that negotiation, seeing as he only managed to get the MIDI rips Sugiyama has "gifted" the West with since time immemorial.

Yeah, though he still managed to do the impossible by breaking one of DQ's habits, crossover-wise. Even he wasn't sure he'd get away with it.

In any case, it would still be insanely stupid of Activision to be turned down for such a silly business reason. They're not saints, yes, but not nearly as bad as EA. Even Universal, as incompetent as they were supervising games, still had to comply to demands from Japan.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

DMC already got a freaking award. Ace Attorney needs a moment in the spotlight.

Also Ace Attorney has been a Nintendo exclusive for 90% of its life outside of Mobile/PC and still doesn’t really have any major games exclusive to the other platforms, vs DMC has only been on a Nintendo console for less than 10% of its lifespan and only very recently brought overpriced ports to the Switch that are more expensive than on other platforms and has been associated with Sony to the point where it was featured in PlayStation’s Smash Bros clone. I think on just a scale of this alone I’d rather have Ace Attorney.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

As far as I know, Dante hasn't had a super-big fan campaign during 4's ballot days, so you're probably worrying for nothing, again.

Just look at fans, they were worried that Steve would get in first, even though the latter didn't have noteworthy advertised ballot support.

 

[WingedSupernova]

My big worry with Phoenix becoming playable has always been: "What's in it for Nintendo?"

Ace Attorney doesn't exactly sell gangbusters, and many of his other Capcom challengers do. I'd think if Nintendo were to choose Phoenix there would have to be some sort of cross promotion involved for them, such as an Ace Attorney 7 exclusive coming in the next 2 years. Fortunately, I find that possibility to be likely.

 

[Krankees]

My big worry with Phoenix becoming playable has always been: "What's in it for Nintendo?"

Ace Attorney doesn't exactly sell gangbusters, and many of his other Capcom challengers do. I'd think if Nintendo were to choose Phoenix there would have to be some sort of cross promotion involved for them, such as an Ace Attorney 7 exclusive coming in the next 2 years. Fortunately, I find that possibility to be likely.

What about Terry? I don't remember Nintendo having anything SNK related after he was announced.

Banjo as well. Sure he had a ton of demand backing him up which probably brought in that dlc money, but he didn't come with any new games or remasters either.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

My big worry with Phoenix becoming playable has always been: "What's in it for Nintendo?"

Ace Attorney doesn't exactly sell gangbusters, and many of his other Capcom challengers do. I'd think if Nintendo were to choose Phoenix there would have to be some sort of cross promotion involved for them, such as an Ace Attorney 7 exclusive coming in the next 2 years. Fortunately, I find that possibility to be likely.

I mean Banjo-Kazooie is miniscule in sales compared to Minecraft and Halo and they still chose them. Ace Attorney is literally an icon of the Nintendo DS that few 3rd Party IPs can claim such a large legacy to (one of the other examples being Professor Layton), and frankly a lot of people view it as a primarily Nintendo franchise. Out of all the Capcom franchises it is probably one of the most, if not THE most affiliated with Nintendo, even rivaling Megaman. Sure other Capcom series have had plenty of releases and big hits on Nintendo consoles but Ace Attorney is one of the few that has had a 100% release rate of every single entry on a Nintendo console, and as the primary release console no less. I think there is PLENTY in it for Nintendo.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I mean Banjo-Kazooie is miniscule in sales compared to Minecraft and Halo and they still chose them. Ace Attorney is literally an icon of the Nintendo DS that few 3rd Party IPs can claim such a large legacy to (one of the other examples being Professor Layton), and frankly a lot of people view it as a primarily Nintendo franchise. Out of all the Capcom franchises it is probably one of the most, if not THE most affiliated with Nintendo, even rivaling Megaman. Sure other Capcom series have had plenty of releases and big hits on Nintendo consoles but Ace Attorney is one of the few that has had a 100% release rate of every single entry on a Nintendo console, and as the primary release console no less. I think there is PLENTY in it for Nintendo.

I think every Nintendo console had an Ace Attorney game on it after the GBA. Even the Wii got Wiiware ports of the trilogy.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I think every Nintendo console had an Ace Attorney game on it after the GBA. Even the Wii got Wiiware ports of the trilogy.

Every Nintendo handheld. It technically skipped the Wii U, but Wii U could also technically play Wii games, so that's kind of a grey area.

 

[Krankees]

I've been thinking. We've given thought to whether or not Dante would fit smash, but what about the other way around? Is Smash capable of including Dante as a fighter? Smash isn't exactly a high speed game and Dante's whole gimmick is absurdly long combos which smash doesn't do. Sure we have Bayonetta but her combos are shorter and aren't as quick paced as Dante's. Bayo's inclusion could also hurt Dante since he doesn't have the gimmick of combos all to himself. This could be solved by slowing down Dante and limiting his combo options but then would Dante still be fun to play?

I don't have any experience with DMC so there might likely be some flaws with my argument.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

I've been thinking. We've given thought to whether or not Dante would fit smash, but what about the other way around? Is Smash capable of including Dante as a fighter? Smash isn't exactly a high speed game and Dante's whole gimmick is absurdly long combos which smash doesn't do. Sure we have Bayonetta but her combos are shorter and aren't as quick paced as Dante's. Bayo's inclusion could also hurt Dante since he doesn't have the gimmick of combos all to himself. This could be solved by slowing down Dante and limiting his combo options but then would Dante still be fun to play?

I don't have any experience with DMC so there might likely be some flaws with my argument.

I thought for a while that, even if Nintendo doesnt care for the competitive aspect, they wouldnt want to land twice on the same pitfall of a combo heavy character after Sm4sh Bayonetta. They could always focus more on Dantes large arsenal of Devil Arms (which are usually somewhat integrated into the DMC plots unlike Bayos weapons) if they wanted to focus on something different from him.
I dunno how much the ballot influenced the character choices right now, it crearly had a play on things after we got , but everything after seems like it had other factors going than sheer popular demand (Joker wasnt even shown to the public before the ballot closed iirc). It's probably up to what Capcom, Nintendo and Sakurai decide whether we get Dante, Phoenix or any new Capcom rep at all.

 

[Dukemon102]

I've been thinking. We've given thought to whether or not Dante would fit smash, but what about the other way around? Is Smash capable of including Dante as a fighter? Smash isn't exactly a high speed game and Dante's whole gimmick is absurdly long combos which smash doesn't do. Sure we have Bayonetta but her combos are shorter and aren't as quick paced as Dante's. Bayo's inclusion could also hurt Dante since he doesn't have the gimmick of combos all to himself. This could be solved by slowing down Dante and limiting his combo options but then would Dante still be fun to play?

I don't have any experience with DMC so there might likely be some flaws with my argument.

The thought of Dante being faithful to his source game terrifies me. He would be all over again. But with a sword, whatever crazy weapon they chose that can shoot and camp, and probably has Devil Trigger in there as another Arsene.

I still would take him over Vergil of course.
*PTSD Flashback*
Phoenix: I got all I need!
Vergil: No U. *X Factor Level 3*

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I think what it comes down to is whether they truly feel DMC needs to come this time. Resident Evil was passed over, and that's one of Capcom's biggest properties.

If Style Change would take too much work at the expense of time needed for other characters, then an absence will happen.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

I think what it comes down to is whether they truly feel DMC needs to come this time. Resident Evil was passed over, and that's one of Capcom's biggest properties.

this I agree with.

If Style Change would take too much work at the expense of time needed for other characters, then an absence will happen.

I feel this is a bigger issue for Kiryu with the different battle styles being a part of Yakuza since I think the beginning? Besides changing his moveset entirely, in contrast to DMC where some of the styles distinct features could simplybe represented as part of Dantes core moveset without getting too fancy (royalsguard could be a special shield mechanic for Dante or his down B, trickster simply recreated through his dodges, gunslinger and swordmaster represented through Dantes various normals and specials given that he just sticks to DMC recurring 4 type of weapons, etc). But I also haven't played DMC5 yet so I might be missing on a big new schtick that'd make styles more elaborate to represent than I imagine atm. At least I like to believe they wouldn't make him such a combo heavy character after witnessing how ridiculous Bayonetta could be even if DMC is the father of stylish action games.
Not like Phoenix couldn't have his own complexities depending on how they decide to present him of course, a mechanic like that of his UMvsC3 incarnation has a higher learning curve than the average Smash fighter. Huh, now that I think about it both DMC and AA originated more or less around the same period of time, neat coincidence I suppose.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

In any case, Kiryu's own series creator thinks he won't get in because he doesn't believe that Sakurai would be interested in him, not because of possible gameplay issues. Thinking that probably because Yakuza won't get on a Nintendo console again, but that never stopped anyone.

In any case, even if Dante isn't playable somehow I think Kamiya would still be happy if he got in as a spirit at all. Being in Smash is a big honor like that.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Something to brighten all your days.