Take Number 5 - the singing Pokemon takes stage! Jigglypuff Discussion

[Nohbl]

Wonder if his FS is different?

>his

 

[SSBCandidates]

Oh sorry. I forgot.

 

[DNeon]

Wonder if his FS is different?

It's in the Character video, she's still got the same FS

 

[Funtroon]

I just wanted to mention that her dash seems to have changed. The initial dash extends further and animation is (slightly) changed. You can see it while Pit is performing his final smash in his portion of the trailer. I GIFED it below (pls excuse the quality):

https://twitter.com/Funtroon/status/1007855777695100929

 

[pikazz]

obs wrong thread lol

but seeing the dash makes me wonder. will he be faster on ground?

 

[VodkaHaze]

I think the question of whether Jigglypuff needs a moveset change is a false one. Jigglypuff doesn't need a new moveset in the sense that they need to replace a move like Sing with a more useful move - they just need to make sure the moves Jigglypuff already aren't complete rubbish. Then again, nobody really cares whether or not Sing is any good.

>his

To be fair, male Jigglypuffs do exist. They only make up 12.5% of the population, but they aren't like a Pokemon like Miltank which are 100% female.

 

[Restless]

No moveset change for me, I just want my viable Jigglypuff back.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I’d love a change in moveset. Maybe something more magical to show off that Jigglypuff is a Fairy-type now. Who doesn’t like the idea of a magical balloon?

 

[DarkKry4]

its amazing how everyone in Smash 64 gets new moves/changes to their moveset while Puff still has nothing substantial. Its like they can't be bothered to change something about her other than a model tweak. I wish they'd give us something new. Even Ganondorf has new things like a sword in his Smash attacks and he debuted later than her. Her gameplay style is supposed to be aerial based, yet only two of her specials are good in the air. That is just plain inconsistent with her core gameplay. The Smash team need to make some serious design changes imo if she is going to compete. Rollout or Sing has got to go.

 

[l!nk_aut]

Great to see that Puff likely got buffed. Hope it isn't bottom tier again.

This would be cool. Jiggs is really fun to play, so I hope she's more viable again.

 

[FunAtParties]

I really don't get why people complain about Jigs no getting any changes. She has a good design as it is.

Too many characters get unnecessary changes for no reason.

 

[DNeon]

really don't get why people complain about Jigs no getting any changes. She has a good design as it is.

One of the most complained about characters to play against in Melee, bottom of the bottom for the next 2 games. The most iconic thing about Jigglypuff as a Pokemon is relegated to a move that's probably most often used accidentally for how bad it is (I'm joking but sing is sooooooo bad). Meanwhile Jigglypuff has received a fresh identity with Fairy type that's entirely unrepresented in here Smash design.

Too many characters get unnecessary changes for no reason

Do we play the same games? Sakurai staunchly refuses to make many changes for fear up upsetting current fans.

 

[VodkaHaze]

One of the most complained about characters to play against in Melee, bottom of the bottom for the next 2 games. The most iconic thing about Jigglypuff as a Pokemon is relegated to a move that's probably most often used accidentally for how bad it is (I'm joking but sing is sooooooo bad). Meanwhile Jigglypuff has received a fresh identity with Fairy type that's entirely unrepresented in here Smash design.

I am not necessarily against adding a Fairy type attack into the game, but the problem is is which move do you replace and with which move? As it stands, Jigglypuff can learn five Fairy moves:

• Disarming Voice
• Dazzling Gleam
• Misty Terrain
• Charm
• Sweet Kiss

(It can also use the Z-move Twinkle Tackle if it knows the first two, which wouldn't be a bad Final Smash for Jigglypuff.)
Out of those five, only Disarming Voice and Dazzling Gleam look like they could be useful, and I'd go with Disarming Voice. The question is, which move do you replace it with?

• Rollout offered an interesting way of getting back onto the stage in Brawl, as you could still move around in the air even after you hit someone.
• Pound can offer additional vertical recovery if you angle it correctly, which can be the difference between life and death.
• Sing is probably your best move to replace, due to no one using it. However, it's also Jigglypuff's signature move, and is a bit like removing Aura Sphere from Lucario.
• Rest is meant to be a high-risk-high-reward move, and was part of the reason Jigglypuff was good in Melee.

Do we play the same games? Sakurai staunchly refuses to make many changes for fear up upsetting current fans.

And that's part of the reason why I doubt we'll see Jigglypuff with a Fairy move. Even if it's a good idea, I doubt Sakurai wants to see Jigglypuff use Fairy moves.
TL;DR I don't think Jigglypuff will use Fairy moves.

 

[DNeon]

And that's part of the reason why I doubt we'll see Jigglypuff with a Fairy move. Even if it's a good idea, I doubt Sakurai wants to see Jigglypuff use Fairy moves.
TL;DR I don't think Jigglypuff will use Fairy moves.

I don't disagree, but the person above was complaining that 'too many characters get changed for no reason'. I'm not necessarily advocating super hard for any change, but saying that there's no reason to want them is pretty blatantly wrong, Jiggs is one of the most problem riddled characters in the game (though that's just putting her at the bottom of a list, not saying that her problems are super eggregious).

As for what I'd change with the Fairy typing, I don't believe that the functions of all of those moves would necessarily have to change, Pound could just as easily have a 'Sweet Kiss' or 'Disarming Voice' animation and function similarly, or they could be used in replacement of some of her normal tilts, aerials and smashes (Dazzling Gleam makes a lot of sense as a down smash for example). At very least she could incorporate the anime's microphone/pen into some of them.

Personally I'd replace Rollout because even when it was useful it was a niche use that didn't really fit in that well with the rest of her floaty game, and while I'd keep Sing as one of her moves it could function very differently.

Again that parts just personal opinion. There's plenty that could have been done with her unique concepts and the character has enough obvious faults that it's well justified to ask for them, that was all I was saying with my post.

 

[FunAtParties]

One of the most complained about characters to play against in Melee, bottom of the bottom for the next 2 games. The most iconic thing about Jigglypuff as a Pokemon is relegated to a move that's probably most often used accidentally for how bad it is (I'm joking but sing is sooooooo bad). Meanwhile Jigglypuff has received a fresh identity with Fairy type that's entirely unrepresented in here Smash design.



Do we play the same games? Sakurai staunchly refuses to make many changes for fear up upsetting current fans.

Ike up air, IC's up air, Peach' Dtilt are being changed for no reason in Ultimate. Bowser dash attack and nair, Yoshi upsmash and dash attack in 4. Things change all the time, so I guess we are playing different games.

 

[DNeon]

Lol go into the Ike thread and tell them there's no good reason to change Ike's up air.

 

[FunAtParties]

Lol go into the Ike thread and tell them there's no good reason to change Ike's up air.

Changing the frame data is different from changing the actual animation.

 

[DNeon]

Changing the frame data is different from changing the actual animation.

This is off topic. I meant it when I said go to the Ike thread and try to argue this if you're wanting to pursue it. For now I'll just leave this argument by saying that Smash fandom has to be one of the only damn fandoms that actually complains about buffs.

 

[FunAtParties]

This is off topic. I meant it when I said go to the Ike thread and try to argue this if you're wanting to pursue it. For now I'll just leave this argument by saying that Smash fandom has to be one of the only damn fandoms that actually complains about buffs.

You're getting heated for no reason tbh. All I'm saying is the change to the animation is unnecessary. It was a unique attack that just needed faster startup and landing lag, and it would've been great.

 

[DarkKry4]

do you guys think that she could maybe she could sing and distantly aim her soundwaves 3 times elsewhere (with brief pauses in between each like the original move)? its hard to explain. Kinda like Lucas's PK freeze but different

though i'd rather they remove/replace sing altogether and make sing a taunt that has properties (like Luigi's boot taunt)

 

[MysticKnives]

do you guys think that she could maybe she could sing and distantly aim her soundwaves 3 times elsewhere (with brief pauses in between each like the original move)? its hard to explain. Kinda like Lucas's PK freeze but different

though i'd rather they remove/replace sing altogether and make sing a taunt that has properties (like Luigi's boot taunt)

Be even better since sing is likely staying, if you could sing cancel.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I kinda get the feeling Jigglypuff won't change much.

I think Sakurai considers her something of an "easy add" when it comes to the roster, so he probably wouldn't go out of his way to make her more complicated.

I'd love to be wrong though.

 

[NamelessHunter]

What if we made sing a counter? Seems like an easy fix to make sing useful.

 

[F.D.M.P.]

It really wouldn't be difficult to change Sing to something people could actually use. Even just letting Jigglypuff move while singing would dramatically increase Sing's effectiveness. Or increasing the size of it. Or changing the shape to be a forward-facing projectile.

Or anything. It really is the worst move in the game.

I'd love to see Rollout go, too. It's not really Jigglypuff-flavored, and not a very creative move, besides. "Well, she's a ball, so what if..."

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I've put Rollout to effective use several times before (even in Smash 4; heck I think it's more useful than in Brawl, personally), but it's still one of the worst special moves overall. Above all other moves, Sing definitely needs the most buffs and alterations.

That being said, even if it still sucks, and Rollout isn't made particularly better either, Jiggly can still be a powerful fighter. We've seen it done in Melee, in which she's pretty much the game's unofficial master of Aerial Combat. Even though the speed and mechanics are different in Ultimate (as they were in the previous two Smash games), I find it hard to believe that she can't simply be buffed in her current state in a way that makes her far more viable and able to keep up with much more of the cast. Buffing Sing would be most a most welcome change, however. Actually, have we even seen Sing in action yet in this game? I don't think we have. It's still a possibility that it could be buffed, with any luck. I very much agree that turning it into a projectile or increasing it's range alone could make it a considerably better move.

I'm still annoyed that her shield break is still an instant death by the way

 

[FunAtParties]

If rollout didn't get nerfed into the ground in 4, it would've been the best punish for her shield breaks. They really ****ed that one up

 

[Zerp]

Rollout is weird, it's so bad... that it's almost good sometimes because literally nobody seems to care enough to learn the counter-play to it, people will frequently underestimate how fast it moves, then be put on tilt for the rest of the set because you hit them once with rollout of all things and they have nobody to blame but themselves.

I've put Rollout to effective use several times before (even in Smash 4; heck I think it's more useful than in Brawl, personally), but it's still one of the worst special moves overall. Above all other moves, Sing definitely needs the most buffs and alterations.

That being said, even if it still sucks, and Rollout isn't made particularly better either, Jiggly can still be a powerful fighter. We've seen it done in Melee, in which she's pretty much the game's unofficial master of Aerial Combat.

As weird as it sounds, she's officially considered that in Brawl.

Part of me actually believes the balance team/Sakurai just has no idea how to balance these games.

 

[smashingDoug]

Who would want to see igglybuff as a clone to ?

like is to

Sorry I just Don’t think igglybuff should get her own thread as she would just be an clone

 

[DNeon]

Who would want to see igglybuff as a clone to ?

like is to

Sorry I just Don’t think igglybuff should get her own thread as she would just be an clone

Igglybuff would look substantially weirder floating around like Jiggs does

 

[smashingDoug]

Igglybuff would look substantially weirder floating around like Jiggs does

Great joke character imo. She’s hurts herself when she does it to

 

[F.D.M.P.]

I would definitely rather see some giant weirdo Wigglytuff shenanigans than another cute baby. Wigglytuff's creeped people out since Red and Blue; lean into it and make something that people don't really know how to feel about it.

 

[DarkKry4]

Wigglytuff would make for a good surprise character (since Pichu is in the game)

Igglybuff seems like it'd be lighter than Jigglypuff (who is already the lightest character in the game) and die earlier because of it. Not a good choice for a clone.

 

[Erimir]

I don't know what Sakurai is on about this "streamlined" bullsh*t because Jigglypuff's final smash is still just as avoidable.

I would suggest you watch that trailer again, because I think Jigglypuff's Final Smash seems to have significantly buffed actually!

Skip to about 15 seconds and watch it at slow speed...

At about 15 seconds, you see and knocked away while making contact with Jigglypuff, but not with especially high knockback. A second later, you see a shockwave from , which hits both of them again and they are KO'd. You can tell it's a second hit because there's the red-and-black "deadly blow" lightning effect (which if it were from the first hit, would've appeared at that time).

So it would seem you can't just jump off-stage and avoid her FS anymore. Still remains to be seen how easy it is to avoid that final blow, but the nerfs to air dodges probably help there too.

 

[Igglybuff4SmashU]

Who would want to see igglybuff as a clone to ?

like is to

Sorry I just Don’t think igglybuff should get her own thread as she would just be an clone

**** yes

 

[F.D.M.P.]

Not sure if anyone's talking about her moveset anywhere, but she's singing in the Direct presentation, and it sucks just as much as it always has.

 

[Bayopuff]

I think they should change her moveset to something more Fairy Type-oriented. (and they should buff her other moves).

Rest and Sing need buffs, Rest should confirm kills at 30-35% and Sing should let the opponent sleep longer, making it easier for the Puff to punish. Rollout should just be replaced with a Fairy-type move, maybe Play Rough.

Not sure if anyone's talking about her moveset anywhere, but she's singing in the Direct presentation, and it sucks just as much as it always has.

... sighs

 

[DarkKry4]

Puff getting ignored by the development team for changes is on par for the course at this point. They think her being in the game is enough to please fans.

She's easily the most neglected out of the original 12. you always see the other original 12 in some kind of promo for the new game but never her.

shes the only one (besides Luigi) who isn't here. But even Luigi got spotlight in that castlevania trailer.

Giving Jigglypuff a new move can't be that hard can it? She needs better specials that make sense with her aerial based gameplay. Greninja got visible changes to his moveset in some way and he debuted way later than her. All we got is an angry face during her final smash :/

 

[Bayopuff]

Puff getting ignored by the development team for changes is on par for the course at this point. They think her being in the game is enough to please fans.

She's easily the most neglected out of the original 12. you always see the other original 12 in some kind of promo for the new game but never her.

shes the only one (besides Luigi) who isn't here. But even Luigi got spotlight in that castlevania trailer.

Giving Jigglypuff a new move can't be that hard can it? She needs better specials that make sense with her aerial based gameplay. Greninja got visible changes to his moveset in some way and he debuted way later than her. All we got is an angry face during her final smash :/

Well, at least she won't be the worst anymore, right, RIGHT???? I mean, PICHU is iN tHe GaMe noW So ShE CouLDN't poSSIbLy bE tHe WOrSt RiGHt?


Who am I kidding, she'll probably be bottom tier again... I don't like to whine constantly but come on! Puff rhyming with Buff can't possibly be a coincidence, can it?

 

[DarkKry4]

Well, at least she won't be the worst anymore, right, RIGHT???? I mean, PICHU is iN tHe GaMe noW So ShE CouLDN't poSSIbLy bE tHe WOrSt RiGHt?


Who am I kidding, she'll probably be bottom tier again... I don't like to whine constantly but come on! Puff rhyming with Buff can't possibly be a coincidence, can it?

the reveal trailer put her right next to Pichu, as if to say "joke characters UNITE" >_>

worst case scenario, they might BOTH be bottom tier lol

Jigglypuff was not weak compared to everyone else in the first Smash 64 game, so i refuse to believe that they're making her a weak joke character on purpose. They seriously need to stop playing favorites and pay attention to weaker characters this time.

And i don't see why they are not trying to replace Rollout. Back then, they might have been limited with what they could do in Melee (when they were forced to give her a new special like EVERY CHARACTER IN THE GAME), but now times are different. Rollout just seems like a half-assed nothing great move that takes little effort to make. Rollout should be replaced with something much flashier, particularly a fairy type move that can work with her aerial based gameplay.

 

[Bayopuff]

the reveal trailer put her right next to Pichu, as if to say "joke characters UNITE" >_>

worst case scenario, they might BOTH be bottom tier lol

Jigglypuff was not weak compared to everyone else in the first Smash 64 game, so i refuse to believe that they're making her a weak joke character on purpose. They seriously need to stop playing favorites and pay attention to weaker characters this time.

And i don't see why they are not trying to replace Rollout. Back then, they might have been limited with what they could do in Melee (when they were forced to give her a new special like EVERY CHARACTER IN THE GAME), but now times are different. Rollout just seems like a half-***** nothing great move that takes little effort to make. Rollout should be replaced with something much flashier, particularly a fairy type move that can work with her aerial based gameplay.

In fact, her being bottom tier along with Pichu is probably what's going to happen, regardless, I'll always dream of her getting Play Rough and wrecking top tiers.

#BuffThePuff