Take Number 5 - the singing Pokemon takes stage! Jigglypuff Discussion

Should Jigglypuff have a moveset change?


  • Total voters
    108

Wyoming

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#1
jigglypuff.jpg


:jigglypuff64::jigglypuffmelee::jigglypuff::4jigglypuff:
Brief History:
First appearing as one of the original 151 Pokemon in the title "Pokemon Red & Blue" in 1996 (1998 in NA), the normal-type has been a main stray in the games and anime, appearing countless times as comic relief during the first few seasons of the Pokemon anime. Since then, the Puffball has earned itself a dual type in the fairy-type in generation Six.

Smash History:
Jigglypuff has been a consistent performer in the Super Smash Bros. series. Appearing as one of the original 12 in "Super Smash Bros." for the Nintendo 64, the singing floating pink ball has featured in every installment of the series as a secret character - with the exception of Super Smash Bros. for Wii U - where it made the starting roster for the first time.

It shined the most in Melee, being one of the best characters in the competitive scene. Otherwise, it hasn't received much luck in terms of usability - ranking bottom tier in both Brawl and Sm4sh, the latter in which she is considered to be the worst character in the game.

Jigglypuff as a character:
Its moveset has remained noticeably untouched in concept since Melee, where it gained an extra special move like everyone else in the game in "Rollout" which became the standard special move. Pound, the previous incumbent of this command, was moved as the side special. Sing and Rest appear as the Up-Special and Down-Special respectively. The latter packs quite the unexpected punch when used correctly, although its power has been greatly reduced from the past games.

As for its aerials and smashes, the Pokemon floats and puffs like a balloon, using its short limbs in combat. Despite its size, its been noted to pack a wallop and notably the Wall of Pain from previous games can be accomplished using her moves effectively.

Its final smash utilizes her being to the very core - it puffs up into a huge figure that can push off opponents once deflated off stage if successful. The move itself doesn't originate from the Pokemon series.

Things we can change?:
Having a secondary typing means the Pokemon has an array of potential moves that can be incorporated into its move pool. If the veterans get a makeover as many theorize, it may stand a chance of obtaining something new and fresh to its moveset. And what better way than to include a move from its relatively new typing?

And what about the cosmetic side of things? Jigglypuff has been known for having quite peculiar alternate costumes from a variety of hats and head wear. What would you want to return or want in?

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Feel free to discuss the Jiggs in Smash Switch!



 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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#5
A fighting game isn't complete without that one joke character. Jigglypuff may be past its prime, but at least it fits the joke character role quite nicely now.
 

Tonydrake

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#6
I want her to get some new special moves based on Fairy type. It's a waste being Fairy and not taking advantage of it

Fairy Wind, Disarming Voice or Play Rough are all moves that would fit her very well
 

Wyoming

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#8
Some fairy elements could be used for its moves, yeah. I always thought something akin to Peach's up air with fairy dust would be a neat little nod. It can even use the fairy Z-crystal for a new final smash.
 
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#10
People are so pressed about wanting her cut lol

I see Lucario being cut instead of her. Its a known fact that people play Mewtwo more than him.

Charizard and Lucario are dead last when it comes to pokemon character usage in SMash (despite Jigglypuff being the weak joke character). Jiggs and Greninja are in the middle in terms of character usage

Although part of me thinks she'll still be made intentionally weak by the game producers, i hope they make her strong again and have someone else fill that Joke role (like Pichu did before)
 
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#12
I love Puff the way she is, she just needs some quality buffs.
Oh, my good friend, I think you mean some quality puffs!

On the other hand, our inflatable friend always seems to be in purgatory—being debated about in Melee and just barely squeezing in in Brawl. Having gone through a redesign and having been a series stable for a while, she has earned herself a spot in the heart of Smash gamers going from a pure joke character to a dangerous threat so it seems she is here to stay!
 
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#13
If they're going to rework multiple characters for this game, having Jiggly reworked to represent Pokemon's Fairy type would be good reason enough to keep it
 

CatRaccoonBL

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#14
I loved how Jiggypuff became more expressive in smash 4. I was fine with her emotionless stare, but smash 4 made her more adorable.

Personally, I'm fine with most of her moveset, but if they could change it to make her more useable that would be great.

I really do like her and her playstyle though. While I also want to keep the og 12 alive for as long as possible. It would be shame to lose her even without that. So I support her return. And hopefully with some buffs.
 

DNeon

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#15
I think that as far as reworking her specials goes she needs to keep Sing (it's Jigglypuff, she uses sing, that's her thing) but for it to be made more useful, and obviously Rest because it's the unique thing she brings so Smash (well, one of the unique things). Pound is a useful special (or at least it has been in the past) but could be reworked to a fairy move (or even just renamed to Play Rough with the dust cloud effect happening if it hits a shield). Rollout could be pretty much exchanged for anything.
 
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UnknownM

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#16
Honestly I would want Sing replaced with "Disarming Voice" since it would also fit the Fairy Type criteria too, would also like to see Rollout changed with Play Rough.

But other than that I'm fine if she stays the same and I hope she doesn't get cut.
 
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#18
Jigglypuff will always be at the mercy of the direction they go with the gameplay, more so than any other veteran imo. She wasn't great in Melee just because her numbers or hitboxes were better, but also because the game's mechanics just suited her so well, it's much harder for her to thrive now with how safe shield and air dodges have become, plus many of the additions since Melee have made life much more difficult for her as her already limited forms of approach have been completely shut down.

I don't think we'll ever see Jiggs be top tier again, Smash has just changed too much, but if the gameplay edges closer to Melee's than before then she'll at least have a decent shot at being not awful, give her a few buffs on top of that and she might even be decent.
 
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#19
Outside of obvious buffs all I want is for her to get some of that anime personality.

I want a victory screen where the opponents are sleeping with marker mustaches drawn on them and Puff holding the marker up like a sword. I want that angry puffed up face she does when she loses. I want that cute little laugh she does as a taunt. Stuff like that.
 

Grizzexploder

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#20
Buff the Puff
Seriously, get rid of Sing as an Up-B, it's a beginner's trap and kinda useless/too situational
I know her main recovery options are Pound + multiple jumps, but you'd think an up-B would send you upwards or a different direction, but nope you just sing and die into the abyss
 

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#21
Buff the Puff
Seriously, get rid of Sing as an Up-B, it's a beginner's trap and kinda useless/too situational
I know her main recovery options are Pound + multiple jumps, but you'd think an up-B would send you upwards or a different direction, but nope you just sing and die into the abyss
I like Sing as a concept, I just want it to be kinda good for once. It's hard to do that when she has a ohko move tho.
 

DNeon

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#22
Buff the Puff
Seriously, get rid of Sing as an Up-B, it's a beginner's trap and kinda useless/too situational
I know her main recovery options are Pound + multiple jumps, but you'd think an up-B would send you upwards or a different direction, but nope you just sing and die into the abyss
Sing as a concept is way too iconic to Puff to just remove. As it functions though? Yeah, something new. I get where you're coming from, there are a few characters who don't actually recover with up B, but at least it doesn't kill them off stage.
 

Luminario

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#25
It's a shame that Jiggs' most well known Smash moves are a sleep special and an extremely powerful kill special, as neither can be changed or removed and everything has to be balanced off of them.
I'd like to see Rollout replaced with either Dazzling Gleam or Hyper Voice as a chargeable special that creates a large hitbox around Jiggs as a defensive move, or at least a small projectile for a bit of desperately needed range. Hyper Voice could also be used as a disjoint Smash attack or a FS. Just give my girl something Sakurai, please.
 
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#26
If she does return, and it is with a new moveset, I'd be pretty pissed.
The only argument for her return is that she is familiar to fans with the moveset she has had.

As an individual character she is insignificant.


And this is coming from someone who thinks Boo would use her moveset better than she does.
 

DNeon

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#27
And this is coming from someone who thinks Boo would use her moveset better than she does.
I don't think I'd ever considered that...that's actually incredibly fitting.

As for her relevance?

She was the second most popular pokemon of the original 150. In fact she was close to being Ash's side kick instead of Pikachu. Jigglypuff was massively popular in Japan, which was why she became a recurring character in the anime.

And nobody is asking for an entirely new moveset, there's just some stuff that you never use. Sing is iconic and good enough in a FFA setting but it's useless in 1v1s. Rollout is pretty much useless in general. How does changing moves that are rarely used alter her playstyle? She doesn't use them.
 
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#28
I don't think I'd ever considered that...that's actually incredibly fitting.

As for her relevance?

She was the second most popular pokemon of the original 150. In fact she was close to being Ash's side kick instead of Pikachu. Jigglypuff was massively popular in Japan, which was why she became a recurring character in the anime.

And nobody is asking for an entirely new moveset, there's just some stuff that you never use. Sing is iconic and good enough in a FFA setting but it's useless in 1v1s. Rollout is pretty much useless in general. How does changing moves that are rarely used alter her playstyle? She doesn't use them.
I'm merely reflecting on he poll at the top, which calls for a new moveset. I don't consider 1/2 changes to be a new moveset. We get minor changes all the time.

As for the mascot, I'm pretty certain that was Clefairy. Even if she was Popular....in Japan... 20 years ago... how much weight does that actually hold now? She only made it into the game because she was an easy clone of Kirby. I think we are passed that being a necessary addition.
 

DNeon

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#29
I'm merely reflecting on he poll at the top, which calls for a new moveset
Not it doesn't, it literally just says 'changes'.

As for the mascot, I'm pretty certain that was Clefairy.
Huh, you're right, my bad.

I think we are passed that being a necessary addition.
Please don't be advocating for removal of characters, I hope I'm misunderstanding you here.

But more importantly, how has Jigglypuff not already evolved beyond that? And in what way is making changes to move even further away from that not a positive move. Most people in this thread are actually suggesting changes to make Jigglypuff more iconic as a 'Fairy' type representative, and definitely one of the most famous fairy types.

At the end of the day Smash has plenty of characters who are irrelevant outside of the fact they were in the original Smash games, but that doesn't mean that they can't be changed to make them better in Smash. It's just backwards logic to say that they're only relevant because of Smash but they shouldn't change to be more relevant within Smash.
 

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#30
I agree the only real strong reason Jigglypuff has in returning time and time again is because of her iconic move set. Jigglypuff without her specials is just a boring character that can be easily replaced with a Kirby air speed buff. I know they'd be replaced with something else, but I highly doubt they'd be even close to as interesting as the glass cannon design she has now. Really, kit-wise, she just needs a buff.

I still want her character (and really all Pokemon) to get some anime-inspired personality so people stop seeing them as generic, and replaceable, and start seeing them as THE Jigglypuff, and THE Pikachu that feel much more important to the roster. Though with Puff, that'll probably never happen as her biggest claim to fame is for the inaugural Pokemon season long long ago which holds little historical importance now. Either way, I still don't want her cut.
 

DNeon

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#31
still want her character (and really all Pokemon) to get some anime-inspired personality so people stop seeing them as generic, and replaceable, and start seeing them as THE Jigglypuff, and THE Pikachu that feel much more important to the roster. Though with Puff, that'll probably never happen as her biggest claim to fame is for the inaugural Pokemon season long long ago which holds little historical importance now. Either way, I still don't want her cut
To be fair I wouldn't be surprised if Greninja returns with the Ash design as his main one considering that his addition in Smash was before all of that.

But I agree, give puffs tilts a microphone/marker, though its a nice touch that she's currently the representative for the female travel companions from the anime.
 
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PF9

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#32
if Smash 5 implemented custom Final Smashes, one I could see for Jigglypuff is a version of its Singing as its done in the Pokemon anime, in which all the other combatants fall asleep, and then Jigglypuff draws on everyone's faces in anger
 

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#33
if Smash 5 implemented custom Final Smashes, one I could see for Jigglypuff is a version of its Singing as its done in the Pokemon anime, in which all the other combatants fall asleep, and then Jigglypuff draws on everyone's faces in anger
Instant ko
 

Wonks

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#34
Jigglypuff was a total surprise when she turned out to be my main in 3DS/U. I'd rather they leave her alone in Switch. Granted, I did like the rollout better in Brawl, as you could change direction mid-air, as opposed to the very high risk of using it mid-air in 3DS/U.
 
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#36
To be honest, I always found Jiggly kind of fun and defended her back in melee to brawl speculations back in the day. But, I do think if any pokemon have to cut, it really should fall on her or Charizard to leave the game at this point. We don't need to send the message that only Gen 1 matters and cut the successful new pokemon. I'm very proud of frog ninja for making his way to the top in popularity and stardom when he faced off against a freaking fox (that gets humanoid) starter which is every gamer teen's favorite animal alongside wolves or panthers. The frog did me proud.

If she stays, I could see her using some love. I'd rather none of the pokemon leave at this point, but I really do feel her and Charizard have the weakest footing currently.
 

DarkKry4

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#37
To be honest, I always found Jiggly kind of fun and defended her back in melee to brawl speculations back in the day. But, I do think if any pokemon have to cut, it really should fall on her or Charizard to leave the game at this point. We don't need to send the message that only Gen 1 matters and cut the successful new pokemon. I'm very proud of frog ninja for making his way to the top in popularity and stardom when he faced off against a freaking fox (that gets humanoid) starter which is every gamer teen's favorite animal alongside wolves or panthers. The frog did me proud.

If she stays, I could see her using some love. I'd rather none of the pokemon leave at this point, but I really do feel her and Charizard have the weakest footing currently.
why should she and Charizard leave when Lucario is the least played pokemon in Smash?

they're going to value statistics over feelings/favoritism. Lucario had his opportunity to get a playerbase and he failed, while Greninja hasn't.
 

DNeon

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#38
why should she and Charizard leave when Lucario is the least played pokemon in Smash?

they're going to value statistics over feelings/favoritism. Lucario had his opportunity to get a playerbase and he failed, while Greninja hasn't.
The issue they're bringing up (and it's one I actually agree with) is that Gen 1 shouldn't be the most important generation of pokemon just for nostalgia's sake. There's already multiple pokemon generations missing representation so it doesn't make sense to cut anyone representing their own generation while Gen 1 has half the spots for itself. People in this thread have expressed the idea of making Jiggs the 'fairy' rep so that she's more recently relevant. I don't imagine Charizard will ever get cut but if I had to choose one it'd be him (and then hope Lucario gets a moveset revamp to be more interesting, god they're boring currently) just so that Pokemon is more evenly distributed.

You're right though, if anyones gone then it's Lucario. Nobody plays them.
 
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DarkKry4

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#39
The issue they're bringing up (and it's one I actually agree with) is that Gen 1 shouldn't be the most important generation of pokemon just for nostalgia's sake. There's already multiple pokemon generations missing representation so it doesn't make sense to cut anyone representing their own generation while Gen 1 has half the spots for itself. People in this thread have expressed the idea of making Jiggs the 'fairy' rep so that she's more recently relevant. I don't imagine Charizard will ever get cut but if I had to choose one it'd be him (and then hope Lucario gets a moveset revamp to be more interesting, god they're boring currently) just so that Pokemon is more evenly distributed.

You're right though, if anyones gone then it's Lucario. Nobody plays them.
there isn't a rule about how much representation each generation should have, and that every generation should have someone to represent them. if a non-generation 1 pokemon is dead last among being played by fans in the Smash community, obviously they have to get the boot sooner or later.

Mewtwo got cut/unfinished in Brawl because they prioritized newer characters (like Lucario) but the Smash fans came demanding him back. And now hes the 2nd most played pokemon character in Smash 4.

Generation 1 pokemon being popular among the gaming community (in general) is just how the cookie crumbles. If they want to appeal to the diehard pokemon fans only (who know every generation), they'd be shooting themselves in the foot. They're not going to add a character Smash fans barely know (and if they do, its usually a character added to promote the newest game). With Greninja's addition, there is more hope that the newest gen will have representation each Smash game. And characters will stay as long as people keep playing them. Greninja found himself a footing among Smash fans unlike Lucario, so lets hope the next new generation pokemon rep has staying power.
 
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#40
why should she and Charizard leave when Lucario is the least played pokemon in Smash?

they're going to value statistics over feelings/favoritism. Lucario had his opportunity to get a playerbase and he failed, while Greninja hasn't.
Well depends on the site in addition to that. I didn't have any stats on who is the least or most played, but I actually found one where Charizard was listed below Lucario and another that had both Jigglypuff and Charizard below.

Also it's hard to ignore Jigglypuff was low priority at least during Brawl. (I heard Melee as well and even 64 was her being a partial quick clone of Kirby) Her importance overall has been driven more from people clinging to the original 12 idea which ironically ties into the problem of the pokemon fan's nostalgic fan issues that has driven some spite into the community both ways. Being the older character doesn't make you the better character, I have that feeling towards Falco actually. He was more of a clone than Wolf while Falco's popularity has likely went down with him being rather weak in Smash 4 according to research. So should Falco's seniority really over take Wolf's popularity and uniqueness? I personally think Wolf should of been above Falco in priority.

If Lucario goes, we should gain someone else from the 3rd or 4th Gens. People have been claiming Pearl and Diamond remakes are on the way, and that actually will only make Lucario be placed back in the spotlight. Only way I'd see him going in this case was if a new 4th Gen rep stepped into the mix.

From everything I could tell, Charizard never hit large popularity in the Smash fandom himself. So I really don't know if he is as safe as people think he is. He may of very well only scraped by due to them already having his Brawl model and moveset buff up the roster more.

The general concern I have in regards to cutting Lucario and/or Greninja is making the newer generations of pokemon look unimportant and lesser than the old ones. While I am fond of Gen 1, I don't think it'd be wise to not promote popularity of the other generations as well. Greninja got huge when he was up against basically every teenager's favorite animal in the form of a feminine anthro fox that is the popular Fire type to boot. Lucario was the middle of the Generation's poster boy for quite some time that stuck around even in other Generations as special prizes or in the wild. I don't really feel either of them deserve the exit door.

Pokemon is just a really wild discussion topic since they have a huge pool of characters, but the only one that is remotely safe is Pikachu. I rather none of them get cut and we gain one or two more, but I know many people are caught onto the Pokemon has to lose characters cause it happened before mentality so the topic is hot. Also unlike Fire Emblem, the cast is really unique and offer very different move sets from each other while sporting very different fantasies as characters which makes it hard to part with any of them.

Overall I'd say :4pikachu: > :4mewtwo: > :4greninja: in priority followed by a three mess of Veteran Jigglypuff, Nostalgia Charizard, and Middle Generations Poster Boy Lucario. But honestly, I could even see Sakurai cutting Mewtwo and Greninja.
 
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