Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Browny]

The amount of overhyping of Corrin is disgusting. He ain't top 20. He'd be lucky to be top 25.

Anyhow:



+

I like you because you called Corrin a he.

DMWN what do you mean 'what happened here?'

For a brief rundown

Greninja was voted #1 in the tier and had the most upvotes with 5 or so more than the next highest, so he easily moved up a tier.
Lucario actually had the most downvotes, but because he was actually voted quite highly overall, he stayed.
The gap between the top 4, and the rest was quite significant. The average rating for rating for greninja to falcon was 3.4 to 4.6. The next highest rated character was pit at 7.5

 

[Bowserboy3]

I like you because you called Corrin a he

Glad to know it's not just me then. I thought I was the only person in the world who used Male Corrin (I don't actually use him, but if I do use Corrin for fun, I use the Male, like Robin).

---

In general, I'm overall happy with what happened with tier 4. I think there might have been a few other characters that could have gone and joined up there (such as , / and potentially ), but at least we got that split, which is good.


I honestly think we might need another split, judging on what I have seen posted since the update. The way I am seeing it, should be placed in it. In my opinion, characters like , , and potentially should join him in said split. But hey, that's just my opinion.

My votes:



+1: I'll keep it short, as I'll only be repeating what has been said by many above. Fantastic damage output per move, quick moves, Utilt/Dtilt to Shoryuken, great combo breaker that functions as a pseudo counter and a recovery boost, and while only average, a few of options for recovery. His incredibly high skill level is his only real downside.

 

[Stick Dude]

-1

 

[Wintermelon43]

2:

+If you disagree with this: Watch Trela at Fresh Saga

+People really underate this character, not sure how he can't be in tier one.

Just realized I forgot Meta Knight. I updated my post to include him Also replaced my Ryu up vote with a Ness down vote.



-

+People really underate this character, not sure how he can't be in tier one. (Same with Meta Knight and Ryu but you can only vote one character up.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Wait this thread isn't dead...why do my notifications never work for this room.

 

[DMWN]

I like you because you called Corrin a he.

DMWN what do you mean 'what happened here?'

For a brief rundown

Greninja was voted #1 in the tier and had the most upvotes with 5 or so more than the next highest, so he easily moved up a tier.
Lucario actually had the most downvotes, but because he was actually voted quite highly overall, he stayed.
The gap between the top 4, and the rest was quite significant. The average rating for rating for greninja to falcon was 3.4 to 4.6. The next highest rated character was pit at 7.5

Thanks for clearing that up, buddy!

I like you because you called Corrin a he.

and not something ridiculous like "kamui"


A bit of evidence on the side of Ryu:
I witnessed Abadango get upset in-person by a Ryu player by the name of Darkshad at Midwest Mayhem 2 a few weeks ago. That alone on top of his recent placings speaks volumes--he doesn't have "Yoshi/Peach syndrome".

 

[Kaiduru Zeta]

+
-
For my votes, I downvoted Pika since his results have been slightly decreasing and there's very few holding him up such as ESAM. Don't get me wrong he's a good character however he hasn't been doing so hot lately.
For Ryu, we're really starting to see how powerful he truly is with Trela's stellar performance at Fresh Saga.

 

[Bigbomb2]

2.

+ This man hurts. He has an iffy approach from what I've played but hoo boy when he gets in...
No -, They all outrank everyone below them in some way, minor or not, even though Ness makes me want to slam my controller

 

[Y2Kay]

+1
-1

If ur still down voting Mewtwo you are in denial at this point. How many asses do Mewtwo mains have to kick before you all realize he is a high tier character?

It thankfully went down now but I still see it.

 

[Routa]

If I were salty about Brawler not getting to this tier (even tho he was the character that deserved it the most) I would downvote M2 to the bottom tier, but I wont do that. But I still remain extremely salty. It is just funny how people results on some characters and ignore others.

Anyways...


+
-

I'm too tired and frustrated to reason my votes.

 

[bc1910]

No up vote.
No down vote.

Will use my votes to countervote if necessary, I think this tier is perfect for the state of the current meta.

 

[Airpoizon]

-1This character has no rep/results outside of one person who does not even place well with him and no longer solo mains him. How is he still even close to this place on the tier list?

Finally someone who agrees that Pikachu is highly overrated.

 

[Airpoizon]

-1
+1

Overrated Mouse

*forgot to upvote mew2

 

[Y2Kay]

Finally someone who agrees that Pikachu is highly overrated.

There is more of ur kind in CCI

 

[Airpoizon]

There is more of ur kind in CCI

May I ask what the CCI is? It's probably something I should know lol.

 

[Y2Kay]

May I ask what the CCI is? It's probably something I should know lol.

The 4BR Tier List Competitce Character Impressions thread

We are notorious for bashing pikachu and saying he isn't that good lol.

 

[Airpoizon]

The 4BR Tier List Competitce Character Impressions thread

We are notorious for bashing pikachu and saying he isn't that good lol.

Sounds right up my alley

 

[Deleted member]

Spoiler: Reference

3:

+
-

Main bias wanted me to upvote Mewtwo, but I feel like Ryu deserves it more.

May I ask what the CCI is? It's probably something I should know lol.

Character Competitive Impressions.

I wouldn't advise going in that thread anyhow. It's pretty nauseating.

 

[Dusk Pit]

If I were salty about Brawler not getting to this tier (even tho he was the character that deserved it the most) I would downvote M2 to the bottom tier, but I wont do that. But I still remain extremely salty. It is just funny how people results on some characters and ignore others.

Anyways...


+
-

I'm too tired and frustrated to reason my votes.

The reason why Brawler didn't get any higher is that people don't simply care or they know very little about Miis in general because they are so irrelevant nowadays.

My votes:

+
-

 

[Wintermelon43]

Sounds right up my alley

If you at all plan to go to it:

HOPE YOU AGREE WITH SHAYA, THINKAMAN, AND EMBLEM LORD'S OPINIONS! BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU'RE SCREWED!!!

 

[jespoke]

If ur still down voting Mewtwo you are in denial at this point. How many ***** do Mewtwo mains have to kick before you all realize he is a high tier character?

Mewtwo is very much still in the stage where people see that he is good, but don't have a good read yet on if it is Ike good or Mario good or where he falls. Meta Knight too for that sake.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

*sees a few down votes*
*facepalms*

But seriously, the patch wasn't THAT bad to him. His neutral game is now improved and better than ever with the new approach option, and his U-air combo can still work especially against floaties. All the nerf means is that he lost his ridiculous factor, which removed him from top tier, but he's still a very solid character with great results deserving of Tier 2 and possibly top 10. He also still has one of the best matchups against Rosalina, so that's something to consider.

 

[SpaceCanary]

*sees a few down votes*

+1
What? MK may not be his crazy Brawl self anymore, but he certainly still belongs in Tier 2. Just because he was nerfed doesn't mean that he's horrible - he still retains his great aerial mobility, frame data, and combo ability, to name a few good points.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

+1 he deserves this tier

 

[Frihetsanka]

+1 (Pure counter-vote, I think Ness deserves to be tier 2 still.)
No downvote.

Edit: Changed my counter-vote from Pikachu to Ness, since Ness was actually doing slightly worse.

 

[Y2Kay]

But seriously, the patch wasn't THAT bad to him.

Yes, it was THAT bad.

His neutral game is now improved and better than ever with the new approach option

MK's neutral wasn't that good then, and it's still not that good now. The fair buff was a nice little bandage for the nerfs he got, but it is not the game changer in neutral as you claim. MK's fair isn't an approach option either. His lacking neutral does get dramatized by people sometimes, but it's just no very impressive compared to all the characters in 1 and 2, and some characters in 3.

All the nerf means is that he lost his ridiculous factor, which removed him from top tier, but he's still a very solid character with great results deserving of Tier 2 and possibly top 10.

Oh the nerfs where much more than that. Metaknight's advantage state right now is no where near as good as it used to be. MK's advantage state is respectable, but very fearful like it used to be. The fear factor of the elevator also help him cover for his average nuetral. Dash attack back then was easily a great neutral tool. Not only did it cross up shields, it converted into a death combo, even at low percents. The fear of dying so early demanded a lot of respect for MK in neutral, even though it is not as good compared to the other top tiers. Now than dreadful fear is gone now, and MK's average neutral is much easier to exploit. I don't know why people still down play Metaknight's nerf. And in no way am I denying that MK is a solid character by down voting him to high mid tier. MK's results are pretty good on paper, but you have to remember that MK is the only character in Tier 2 who doesn't have strong solo performances. Meta knight mains such as Tyrant, Leo, and Ito are forced to use secondaries much more now (Leo uses Cloud and Marth more, Tyrant uses Sheik more, and Ito has to use Diddy more). And other high level Meta knights, like Abadango, JBAndrew, and Katakiri have simply dropped the character. Tyrant has considered dropping MK as well. This dependency to cover bad match ups with secondaries is much more striking of a high mid character like Corrin, than a high tier.

Top 10 has a lot of competition, especially with up and comers like that are hungry for a spot. I doubt MK will be top ten by the end of the game's lifespan.

He also still has one of the best matchups against Rosalina, so that's something to consider.

True, but also takes a dump on Rosa's life as well, and he's easier to play than , and overall has a better MU spread than him too.

MK notoriously struggles with and to a lesser extent

But the only matchups that Cloud really loses are and maybe .

Just because he was nerfed doesn't mean that he's horrible - he still retains his great aerial mobility, frame data, and combo ability, to name a few good points.

I never said he was horrible,ever! (like sending him to Tier 3 is some kind of insult to MK)

MK's air mobility is mediocre at best lol (It's the 35th highest in the cast. Combine that with his ridiculously high gravity and average air acceleration, you have a character that doesn't move that fast in the air)

MK combo potential and damage output is strong but is easily matched or outdone by other top, high, and even mid tier characters.


Maybe what I'm about to say is harsh, but Metaknight's meta is dying (or at least, starting to die)

Hopefully Leo can turn it around at GOML 2016

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Yes, it was THAT bad.

MK's neutral wasn't that good then, and it's still not that good now. The fair buff was a nice little bandage for the nerfs he got, but it is not the game changer in neutral as you claim. MK's fair isn't an approach option either. His lacking neutral does get dramatized by people sometimes, but it's just no very impressive compared to all the characters in 1 and 2, and some characters in 3.

Oh the nerfs where much more than that. Metaknight's advantage state right now is no where near as good as it used to be. MK's advantage state is respectable, but very fearful like it used to be. The fear factor of the elevator also help him cover for his average nuetral. Dash attack back then was easily a great neutral tool. Not only did it cross up shields, it converted into a death combo, even at low percents. The fear of dying so early demanded a lot of respect for MK in neutral, even though it is not as good compared to the other top tiers. Now than dreadful fear is gone now, and MK's average neutral is much easier to exploit. I don't know why people still down play Metaknight's nerf. And in no way am I denying that MK is a solid character by down voting him to high mid tier. MK's results are pretty good on paper, but you have to remember that MK is the only character in Tier 2 who doesn't have strong solo performances. Meta knight mains such as Tyrant, Leo, and Ito are forced to use secondaries much more now (Leo uses Cloud and Marth more, Tyrant uses Sheik more, and Ito has to use Diddy more). And other high level Meta knights, like Abadango, JBAndrew, and Katakiri have simply dropped the character. Tyrant has considered dropping MK as well. This dependency to cover bad match ups with secondaries is much more striking of a high mid character like Corrin, than a high tier.

Top 10 has a lot of competition, especially with up and comers like that are hungry for a spot. I doubt MK will be top ten by the end of the game's lifespan.

True, but also takes a dump on Rosa's life as well, and he's easier to play than , and overall has a better MU spread than him too.

MK notoriously struggles with and to a lesser extent

But the only matchups that Cloud really loses are and maybe .



I never said he was horrible,ever! (like sending him to Tier 3 is some kind of insult to MK)

MK's air mobility is mediocre at best lol (It's the 35th highest in the cast. Combine that with his ridiculously high gravity and average air acceleration, you have a character that doesn't move that fast in the air)

MK combo potential and damage output is strong but is easily matched or outdone by other top, high, and even mid tier characters.


Maybe what I'm about to say is harsh, but Metaknight's meta is dying (or at least, starting to die)

Hopefully Leo can turn it around at GOML 2016

Man, this guy on the Competetive Forums would hate you as he said Meta Knight has a great Neutral, and many agreed their, but you are the exact opposite.

 

[Y2Kay]

Man, this guy on the Competetive Forums would hate you as he said Meta Knight has a great Neutral, and many agreed their, but you are the exact opposite.

I don't care.

His neutral isn't impressive compared to other top and high tiers, there isn't much to deny.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Just saying, if Ryu gets a few more upvotes, then I'll change mine to Meta Knight, because there's no way he's not at least top 15 with what he's got. In fact, we've only mentioned his big flaw and big weakness; he hardly has any other weaknesses besides neutral, and he's got far more strengths than advantage state, such as offstage game and out of shield options.

 

[Stick Dude]

-1

+1

 

[Y2Kay]

Just saying, if Ryu gets a few more upvotes, then I'll change mine to Meta Knight, because there's no way he's not at least top 15 with what he's got. In fact, we've only mentioned his big flaw and big weakness; he hardly has any other weaknesses besides neutral, and he's got far more strengths than advantage state, such as offstage game and out of shield options.

If you think that MK is top 15 at least you are either overrating your character or you don't grasp how competitve the #11 - 20 spot is. Like I've already said, there are still a lot of good characters hot on his heels. Him dropping out of top 15 and into top 20 is a very plausible reality, even if he is good enough to still be in top 15.

My pet peeve with this thread is that a lot of arguments here seem to be too broad and too short. "he's not at least top 15 with what he's got" got what? what exactly does he have? Sometimes arguments can be too weak or often flat out wrong (Somebody here said greninja has great frame data, when that is farthest from the truth. His frame data is one of his weaknesses actually).

Not to offend anybody, but I think discussion should be a part this thread, not just voting. It's when people really go in depth to defend or criticize characters that this thread shines.

 

[Phuckyew]

It's when people really go in depth to defend or criticize characters that this thread shines.

As somebody who rarely goes into detail, I completely agree with you (as hypocritical as this makes me...). Some problems I've noticed in myself and others are:

1) People are generally too lazy/busy to write lengthy responses.
2) While generally knowledgeable about their characters, many are ignorant to the strengths of other characters. It's easier to overlook a character as opposed to learning their tech.
3) Many smashers are fair weather fans and the hype train is local. People are prone to following the popular vote/opinion instead of what they truly believe.
4) Many tend to undermine results outside of North America.

I'm going to do a bit of research now because tbh, I know very little about and

 

[Y2Kay]

As somebody who rarely goes into detail, I completely agree with you (as hypocritical as this makes me...). Some problems I've noticed in myself and others are:

1) People are generally too lazy/busy to write lengthy responses.
2) While generally knowledgeable about their characters, many are ignorant to the strengths of other characters. It's easier to overlook a character as opposed to learning their tech.
3) Many smashers are fair weather fans and the hype train is local. People are prone to following the popular vote/opinion instead of what they truly believe.
4) Many tend to undermine results outside of North America.
5) Saying a character has no results when they actually do

I'm going to do a bit of research now because tbh, I know very little about and

I added no. 5 myself. I hear that one way too much.

Not gonna lie, I did some research for MK argument too, no shame in that. Sometimes I'm too lazy to go into detail with my votes either, but if someone questions my choices I will take the time to creat my counter arguments.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/wiiu/axfj/update/index.html
Well the tier list might be invalidated due to 1.1.6 around the corner

 

[jespoke]

Not invalid, it will be good to look back at just like the others in the OP.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

+1
Least this wasn't as hard, I guess.

 

[Frihetsanka]

So, perhaps we should speed up this process so we're done with phase 2 and maybe even the "selecting cut-offs for the newly created tiers" before the patch is released? We can then use this tier list as the basis for the new 1.1.6 one, perhaps starting again with the whole "select 5 characters" thing. Chances are only a few characters will be changed enough to warrant moving up or down a tier (although more may move within the tier, so we'll have to redo phase 2 at some point, I suppose). But hey, more voting! Voting is fun.

 

[Browny]

OK provided that the patch drops tonight, I am going to halt this right now until we figure out the magnitude of the changes.

If only a few characters get touched, no need to change anything, we can vote on them separately. If its major, then yes we will rush this to finish up this list.

 

[DMWN]

OK provided that the patch drops tonight, I am going to halt this right now until we figure out the magnitude of the changes.

If only a few characters get touched, no need to change anything, we can vote on them separately. If its major, then yes we will rush this to finish up this list.

Hold up, is it actually dropping tonight? Or is the thread halted just in case it does?

 

[Browny]

I've heard its coming today, but that was just speculation.