Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Hero_2_All]

+

More a counter vote. Corrin is fine were she is in top of high tier.

Also here is a rant in response to the Corrin hate I'm seeing. (though as a Corrin main this will, and should be perceived with a little Bias):

I don't see why people are saying she has no good solo mains and poor theory craft. She has great solo mains at the regional lvl such as Cosmic Cosmos, and Ryuga. Both of whom have had better results after picking up Corrin (cosmos going from an 8th place guy with Pikachu to always 2nd or 1st in his region. Also Ryuga beating Ally). Now the immediate response is "well there are no TOP lvl solo mains". Now I find this statement to be some what ignorant. At base a Top lvl player plays a character that they do the best with. This is because they are in it to win it. Now why in god's name would say... Esam go solo main Corrin unless they would have better results than with their current main? The problem is that Top level players have a main that is generally already top or high tier, but on top of that they have THOUSANDS of hours of practice on said character. Now, say a perspective high tier / Top tier character is released as DLC, a top player would need to be able to see the investment in maining this character over their current main. Cloud and Bayo both proved easy to pick up, and to get results with. They are the exception to the rule, as their results were better than most Top player's current mains despite the thousands of hours of practice. Thus these players chose to switch to Bayonetta and Cloud. Corrin on the other hand will probably be more like Ryu and Mewtwo. Good enough to be great characters if you have the hours, yet not gonna give you results better than your current top tier main. So really there is no reason for a top player to invest the hours into the character. Now say hypothetically that I was maybe looking to pick up a new character as a top lvl player. I would probably keep it as a secondary until I had the confidence to use it . This is maybe outside of counter picks for a high lvl tourney. This is due to my prospective character needing more hours, but also I would need to use my current main to continue to win. To see this in action I would also like to point to Mewtwo. Mewtwo was a secondary to Abadongo, but then he finally had the hours to be used as a main (also meta k night nerfs may have forced his hand). This is merely a thought and is probably not true for the majority of top lvl Corrin secondaries. Even if they play Corrin only for the counter picks, then apparently the Corrin match up spread is good enough to flesh out the match ups of multiple characters. Last, but not least Corrin's theory craft is good. Solid frame data, allot of safe moves when properly spaced, amazing range, and probably the best true combo game among the Swordies . Offset by lack of combo throw, and low mobility. TL;DR : Top players won't drop their main for a great character, only one that's better for them than their current main.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Oh yeah I never said Guest XXXX had no potential in tier 2. BTW, can you link me to the guy who uses brawler.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Mii_Brawler_(SSB4)#Notable_players

Dapuffster is the one who did well at EVO.

 

[Deleted member]

I disagree with Corrin being in top of high tier.

People still are falling for her dumb **** and then go to say the character is top 15, it's actually annoying. She reminds me of in Brawl where they were seen as a huge threat in the early meta for similar reasons: fearsome projectile, great range, among others. Then their initial perception fell off once people figured out how to properly fight them and realized they were an otherwise average character with a couple stupid aspects you had to bypass smartly.

You can say this for any other character but once you actually know the matchup and abuse her glaring weaknesses, she has a hard time. She also has pretty bad high tier MUs with . Other characters below top tier even give her trouble like . can just gimp her at 0% with Cyclone for free, it's quite hilarious.

Her tools are strong, but I don't see how Corrin is as oppressive as people are hyping her up to be. Why do you think Roy is seen as a joke nowadays? Almost no actual solo mains. Not to say Corrin is as bad as him, but I want more of this character's juice before I'm convinced she is high tier.

 

[Y2Kay]

Corrin is frustrating and aggravating but she's is not scary.

Corrin's humongous hitboxes on Nair and the waiting game dragon pin forces you in to is infuriating. And not in the high tier way.

Honestly she is like a brawl ROB. Incredibly frustrating, but not necessarily great.

TBH I think Corrin is nothing but a fad. I feel she'll drop off to mid tier as time goes on.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Corrin is frustrating and aggravating but she's is not scary.

Corrin's humongous hitboxes on Nair and the infuriating waiting game dragon pin forces you in to is infuriating. And not in the high tier way.

Honestly she is like a brawl ROB. Incredibly frustrating, but not necessarily great.

TBH I think Corrin is nothing but a fad. I feel she'll drop off to mid tier as time goes on.

Ya but we'll probably be stuck looking at him in top 15 next tier list because so many top level players seem to be going "B-But potential!"

Corrin has potential alright... as the best mid tier counterpick character. They ain't high tier, even if you lower the current requirements to get in.

 

[Hero_2_All]

I disagree with Corrin being in top of high tier.

People still are falling for her dumb **** and then go to say the character is top 15, it's actually annoying. She reminds me of in Brawl where they were seen as a huge threat in the early meta for similar reasons: fearsome projectile, great range, among others. Then their initial perception fell off once people figured out how to properly fight them and realized they were an otherwise average character with a couple stupid aspects you had to bypass smartly.

You can say this for any other character but once you actually know the matchup and abuse her glaring weaknesses, she has a hard time. She also has pretty bad high tier MUs with . Other characters below top tier even give her trouble like . can just gimp her at 0% with Cyclone for free, it's quite hilarious.

Her tools are strong, but I don't see how Corrin is as oppressive as people are hyping her up to be. Why do you think Roy is seen as a joke nowadays? Almost no actual solo mains. Not to say Corrin is as bad as him, but I want more of this character's juice before I'm convinced she is high tier.

I can definitely see your reasoning here. You are cautious on the subject and wish for more results. And for directly post release Corrin Id definitely agree with you, however if ya watch Comos's Corrin at release and then now you can see an evolution. During this you can see him take out a bunch of great players including Sol ( who players Ryo all the time and has plenty of Corrin Mu experience). Really people think Corrin is side-b the character. Don't get me wrong, side B is an amazing move that should be used, but not overly relied upon. Yet, in the early days of Corrin, and at low lvl play it was relied heavily upon. Now its become a more mental tool, and a punish/ edge guarding tool. Now the mental tool stems from what you know... people ran into the side-b. Now the main counter play is shielding in against the side b then punishing. Now this in it's own way is one of Corrin's best strengths. Because of respecting side-b your opponent always has to shield when in your sphere of influence. Vs a character like Corrin who can mix up to other moves to poke shield safely always being in shield is not the best idea. In a nutshell Side-b forces shield out of the need to respect it. Now what gets over shadowed by Side-b is that Corrin has some of the best aerials in the game minus d-air. Corrin's aerials have frame data on par with smash 4 marth (which is amazing frame data for a swordy in this game), but slightly less range and damage than marth. However, it has less landing lag, f-air auto cancels in SH, and they all combo from tilits, into tilts, and into themselves. They also set up for insane frame traps if they don't true combo. Corrin honestly has one of the best if not the best true combo games among the swordies because of this. Now ive gone on a few good things about Corrin. Lets go over the two worst qualities. Mobility, and lack of combo grab. Mobility is easily Corrin's biggest flaw. It is what opens up Corrin to the largest amount of counter play. Speedy baiting along Corrin's ranges is what gets Corrin the most. Anyone who can force her hand and make her wiff, or get in and stick to her is good for fighting her. Now Lack of combo throw hinders her from punishing the heavy amount of shielding she will receive vs her (though with proper spacing she can poke safely). Honestly though Corrin would be pretty stupid if she had mobility, or a good combo throw.... especially mobility. I honestly understand were your coming from here, you can see another, less severe Roy here. I personally don't see that happening, but ya never know. Tbh for now I think Corrin is fine around Falcon in high high tier.... not calling top 15 atm

 

[ShadowGuy1]

tbf, unless it would put corrin in Tier 4, I will change my vote to a bralwer upvote

 

[bc1910]

3.
3.5. ()

+ Based on him being one of only ~13 characters to have made Grand Finals at a major with 250+ entrants. Is the only character here with a top tier balance of speed and power.

- Countervote. For sure I think Corrin is good, but not top 15 material. The fact that his best results are all as part of a 2- or 3-character combo speaks volumes to me.

I'll change this to a Brawler downvote if the Brawler upvotes get too crazy, since he's done even less than Corrin to warrant a tier 2 placement.

 

[Frihetsanka]

I counted the votes, and as of right now, no one is even close to moving up. The closest is Greninja who is at +4. No one is close to moving down either, with Marth being at -3. It seems rather unlikely that Mii Brawler would move up, since lots of people are placing them in low or mid tier 3, which seems to affect whether a character moves up or down as well.

As for the whole "Mii Brawler doesn't have the results", well, the EVO results were not bad at all, and winning two sets against ZeRo isn't bad either. If Guest XXXX were allowed in more tournaments I bet we'd see Mii Brawler with more results, Right now, Guest XXXX aren't legal everywhere, thus limiting the results, so we'll have to do quite a bit of theory-crafting to place Mii Brawler Guest XXXX.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

3:()
3.5
Idk.... +1 ?
Uh......-1...?

I don't know, but I think I do actually have to vote so.....I'm just...guessing
I do at least want to split this up into 2 tiers instead of 1 giant tier.

 

[Y2Kay]

I didn't want the tier list to be too theory related, but damnit Shulk is in low mid, and Pac Man is in high mid.

+1 greninja

 

[Deleted member]

I don't necessarily disagree with Shulk's placement. Smack bottom of mid or near top of low tier is where I'd place him myself.

 

[Y2Kay]

I don't necessarily disagree with Shulk's placement. Smack bottom of mid or near top of low tier is where I'd place him myself.

Frankly, Shulk's results don't live up to his theory. On the flip side, DHD has defied the odds and has gotten really solid results in Japan and a few good results in the USA, despite his poor theory.

The only character in tier 4 that doesn't have better results than him is Doctor Mario (who I think is low tier too). Hulk is near non existent at the highest level and is "okay" at the regional level, while on the contrary Duck Hunt Dog has much better high level results than him.

I fully believe that Duck Hunt was the one deserving to leave tier 5, not Shulk. Especially if this takes results the most seriously.

But that, however, is too late to be changed.

 

[Deleted member]

Frankly, Shulk's results don't live up to his theory. On the flip side, DHD has defied the odds and has gotten really solid results in Japan and a few good results in the USA, despite his poor theory.

The only character in tier 4 that doesn't have better results than him is Doctor Mario (who I think is low tier too). Hulk is near non existent at the highest level and is "okay" at the regional level, while on the contrary Duck Hunt Dog has much better high level results than him.

I fully believe that Duck Hunt was the one deserving to leave tier 5, not Shulk. Especially if this takes results the most seriously.

But that, however, is too late to be changed.

Shulk's top level results are indeed poor, but his regional results and representation are still solid. Nicko, Tremendo Dude, Darkwolf, I can go on. Dragonbrain has also discovered a great amount of Shulk tech and is a fantastic player overall (even beating Pink Fresh), even if he's a wifi warrior for the most part. I said this before, once you get Nicko to a national peeps are gonna be all about saying this character is mid tier and going "I KNEW THIS CHARACTER HAD POTENTIAL". Don't say I didn't tell you.

His tools are too valuable for him to be "bottom 10" or one of the absolute worst characters in the game like so many people tend to throw around. Top players like falln and ZeRo have made their cases for believing in Shulk, and I can see where they're coming from! Shield and Jump alone allow him to camp and edgeguard more effectively than possibly any other swordie. in a meta where patience and knowing how to lame/getting into your opponent's head is important, that's good for the Monado Boy.

I feel like ever since the character's initial overhyping then dropoff has made a ton of misinformation go around about him. If we're gonna be real, the only people who have truthfully dropped Shulk are 9B and Trela, who weren't relevant to his meta in the first place. Jerm wasn't either. I've played @Masonomace myself a good amount of times and I've seen what this character can be capable of in the right hands. Yes, Shulk's frame data is indeed a major fundamental flaw, but his spacing and neutral are still quite strong. He does have absolutely detestable high tier MUs like and , but the others range from just a slight disadvantage to even/mostly doable.

Shulk is more so a case of "high learning curve be damned". He is the hardest character in the game to play and the one to be most consistent with. You need such a wide knowledge of the game itself and his techs to he successful, and that's what turns such a huge crowd of people away from him. Shulk isn't "invalidated" by characters like like so many people want to claim. He has a place in this meta and I am confident in that. I'd love for him to get some notable buffs in future patches if they are still going, but I believe he can perform well. I think Duck Hunt is a mid tier character myself, so I'm not disagreeing. Both should have moved up.

 

[VizionarY]

Shulk's top level results are indeed poor, but his regional results and representation are still solid. Nicko, Tremendous Dude, Dragonbrain, Darkworlf, can go on. I said this before, once you get Nicko to a national peeps are gonna be all about saying this character is mid tier and going "I KNEW THIS CHARACTER HAD POTENTIAL". Don't say I didn't tell you.

His tools are too valuable for him to be "bottom 10" or one of the absolute worst characters in the game like so many people tend to throw around. Shield and Jump alone allow him to camp and edgeguard more effectively than possibly any other swordie. in a meta where patience and knowing how to lame/getting into your opponent's head is important, that's good for the Monado Boy.

I feel like ever since the character's initial overhyping then dropoff has made a ton of misinformation go around about him. If we're gonna be real, the only people who have truthfully dropped Shulk are 9B and Trela, who weren't relevant to his meta in the first place. Jerm wasn't either. I've played @Masonomace myself a good amount of times and I've seen what this character can be capable of in the right hands. Yes, Shulk's frame data is indeed a major fundamental flaw, but his spacing and neutral are still quite strong. He does have absolutely detestable high tier MUs like and , but the others range from just a slight disadvantage to even/mostly doable.

Shulk is more so a case of "high learning curve be damned". He is the hardest character in the game to play and the one to be most consistent with. You need such a wide knowledge of the game itself and his techs to he successful, and that's what turns such a huge crowd of people away from him. Shulk isn't "invalidated" by characters like like so many people want to claim. He has a place in this meta and I am confident in that. I'd love for him to get some notable buffs in future patches if they are still going, but I believe he can perform well. I think Duck Hunt is a mid tier character myself, so I'm not disagreeing. Both should have moved up.

Feelicks you understand my feelings for Shulk fully. I know Shulk has potential and no regional results, but no else seems to believe that Shulk can be a good character. He just such a HUGE learning curve that pushes many people away from playing/ maining him. I personally think that Shulk's poor frame data is the ONLY thing holding him back. Therefore i believe it's possible for Shulk to be the very top of mid tier or even the very bottom of high tier. Will it happen, I don't know. But i do know that someone out there can overcome Shulk's poor frame data and then prove Shulk!

Lets go MONADO BOY!!

 

[Nidtendofreak]

@ Shulk discussion:

Trela has been working on a Shulk with that alternative control scheme (Bido? Something like that?). So in theory we might be seeing some Shulk play at a top level in the near future.

Would be interesting to see. As it currently stands at least 4 top level players have tried Shulk in the past and gave up on him ultimately. That's rather telling about his "potential" when people like Ally can't get him to work at their level. I think Trela was one of them before, Bido stuff might help Shulk but I think it would help other characters even more. So if it ever caught on universally, Shulk would drop back down.

Shulk is a top of low tier character. Potential is meaningless without results, Shulk doesn't have them where they matter.

 

[Deleted member]

@ Shulk discussion:

Trela has been working on a Shulk with that alternative control scheme (Bido? Something like that?). So in theory we might be seeing some Shulk play at a top level in the near future.

Would be interesting to see. As it currently stands at least 4 top level players have tried Shulk in the past and gave up on him ultimately. That's rather telling about his "potential" when people like Ally can't get him to work at their level. I think Trela was one of them before, Bido stuff might help Shulk but I think it would help other characters even more. So if it ever caught on universally, Shulk would drop back down.

Shulk is a top of low tier character. Potential is meaningless without results, Shulk doesn't have them where they matter.

They dropped him early in the metagame. Most of his advanced techniques weren't even developed yet, and from what I could see they didn't play Shulk anywhere near his best players do now. I fail to see what point this is meant to prove.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

()

-

 

[Wintermelon43]

Shulk's top level results are indeed poor, but his regional results and representation are still solid. Nicko, Tremendo Dude, Darkwolf, I can go on. Dragonbrain has also discovered a great amount of Shulk tech and is a fantastic player overall (even beating Pink Fresh), even if he's a wifi warrior for the most part. I said this before, once you get Nicko to a national peeps are gonna be all about saying this character is mid tier and going "I KNEW THIS CHARACTER HAD POTENTIAL". Don't say I didn't tell you.

His tools are too valuable for him to be "bottom 10" or one of the absolute worst characters in the game like so many people tend to throw around. Top players like falln and ZeRo have made their cases for believing in Shulk, and I can see where they're coming from! Shield and Jump alone allow him to camp and edgeguard more effectively than possibly any other swordie. in a meta where patience and knowing how to lame/getting into your opponent's head is important, that's good for the Monado Boy.

I feel like ever since the character's initial overhyping then dropoff has made a ton of misinformation go around about him. If we're gonna be real, the only people who have truthfully dropped Shulk are 9B and Trela, who weren't relevant to his meta in the first place. Jerm wasn't either. I've played @Masonomace myself a good amount of times and I've seen what this character can be capable of in the right hands. Yes, Shulk's frame data is indeed a major fundamental flaw, but his spacing and neutral are still quite strong. He does have absolutely detestable high tier MUs like and , but the others range from just a slight disadvantage to even/mostly doable.

Shulk is more so a case of "high learning curve be damned". He is the hardest character in the game to play and the one to be most consistent with. You need such a wide knowledge of the game itself and his techs to he successful, and that's what turns such a huge crowd of people away from him. Shulk isn't "invalidated" by characters like like so many people want to claim. He has a place in this meta and I am confident in that. I'd love for him to get some notable buffs in future patches if they are still going, but I believe he can perform well. I think Duck Hunt is a mid tier character myself, so I'm not disagreeing. Both should have moved up.

One thing you should mention is that it's generally socal top players that believe in Shulk, and that's where Nicko lives. Which means that they had a chance to play aganist his Shulk and decided since that Shulk indeed has potential. (Well ZeRo always thought he had potential but still).

Also imo Olimar is even harder than Shulk but yea, Shulk is extremely difficult to use.

 

[IndigoSSB]

()

-
(I don't think any of them should move to the next tier)
Hope I'm doing this right, have been away from the thread for a while cause of life.


I've seriously missed stuff though. Corrin a fad, with hidden potential? That's a new one.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

They dropped him early in the metagame. Most of his advanced techniques weren't even developed yet, and from what I could see they didn't play Shulk anywhere near his best players do now. I fail to see what point this is meant to prove.

He's pretty much the only character with "potential" claims that have had that many people of that level of caliber put time into them and then drop them, regardless of the stage of the metagame. Its telling even if not all of the pieces were there yet.

If one of the top level Shulks actually starts traveling will there suddenly be "zong Shulk is mid tier" claims"? Of course. Same thing happened with Dr.Mario, Link is starting to get some of that talk now, I think I've seen it for Samus as well, and of course Lucas.

And much like most if not all of that talk: it will die away because it won't be consistent once people adapt accordingly.

 

[Y2Kay]

I feel like a lot of you guys are under rating Megaman, he's been doing really well lately. He's deserving of being higher on a lot you guys' tier lists.

 

[Deleted member]

He's pretty much the only character with "potential" claims that have had that many people of that level of caliber put time into them and then drop them, regardless of the stage of the metagame. Its telling even if not all of the pieces were there yet.

If one of the top level Shulks actually starts traveling will there suddenly be "zong Shulk is mid tier" claims"? Of course. Same thing happened with Dr.Mario, Link is starting to get some of that talk now, I think I've seen it for Samus as well, and of course Lucas.

And much like most if not all of that talk: it will die away because it won't be consistent once people adapt accordingly.

It's funny because Samus actually has had consistent results for quite a while now in both America and Europe.

Nairo has only used Doc once in a notable tournament and that was MLG (besides him doing poorly with him in G3 pools). No other Docs like Koolaid or 2ManyCooks travel out it their region often or just use him as a pocket, so the hype for him initially was unjustified. He doesn't have the results that Lucas, Samus or Shulk do, so that's a rather poor comparison.

Lucas being on the rise shouldn't be discredited either, especially since Taiheita has defeated Japan's best Rosalina on three seperate occasions combined Hakii and Son continuing to get good results in Texas and Florida respectively. You can only claim "matchup inexperience" for so long.

 

[Rhinomaster22]

I feel like a lot of you guys are under rating Megaman, he's been doing really well lately. He's deserving of being higher on a lot you guys' tier lists.

He has actually, he won a major in Japan against Komorikri, got 13th at Pound, won Fusion 3 against a lot of top talent like Mew2king, Ryo, Fatality, Xaltis, and 6WX. Also 2nd at final round where it took Anti just to take him out.

 

[Deleted member]

He has actually, he won a major in Japan against Komorikri, got 13th at Pound, won Fusion 3 against a lot of top talent like Mew2king, Ryo, Fatality, Xaltis, and 6WX. Also 2nd at final round where it took Anti just to take him out.

He also has the best tournament record against Bayonetta out of anybody in the entire cast.

His neutral is too bonkers for him to be any worse than top 20. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Routa]

I feel like a lot of you guys are under rating Megaman, he's been doing really well lately. He's deserving of being higher on a lot you guys' tier lists.

The thing is that there are quite a many character that are and have been doing well for longer time and yet these characters don't get any love.

Also I still don't quite get what is the thing with you guys so placing Brawler so low? Many of his mains are placing in top 8 in their regions, there are quite many PRed Brawler users, Mii Brawler has given really hard time to notable players like Zero (back in Pre Patch Diddy days), the frame data is great where it matters and the theory and MU spread is solid. What els you guys want? Nationals/Majors win? We all know why Brawler lacks them and I'm pretty sure I don't need to mention the reason.

Mega-Man is still rather hard to place due to him being a rare treat. He is like really rare. I mean I have seen more 1111 Swordfighter play than MM play and that is not a good thing when it comes down popularity. I will rethink his placing in my voting.

 

[Y2Kay]

Good Megaman play isn't that hard to find guys......

 

[Rhinomaster22]

It's not reasonable to put Megaman that low considering that he has better results international, regionally, and at majors than characters like Captain Falcon , Ike , Martha and Yoshi.

 

[Y2Kay]

And it's not surprising people place the Miis low when they are effectively banned in a lot of places.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

It's funny because Samus actually has had consistent results for quite a while now in both America and Europe.

Nairo has only used Doc once in a notable tournament and that was MLG (besides him doing poorly with him in G3 pools). No other Docs like Koolaid or 2ManyCooks travel out it their region often or just use him as a pocket, so the hype for him initially was unjustified. He doesn't have the results that Lucas, Samus or Shulk do, so that's a rather poor comparison.

Lucas being on the rise shouldn't be discredited either, especially since Taiheita has defeated Japan's best Rosalina on three seperate occasions combined Hakii and Son continuing to get good results in Texas and Florida respectively. You can only claim "matchup inexperience" for so long.

Samus' results are consistent... at smaller tournaments. At larger ones she's placing frequently outside of the top 8 and occasionally making into the top 8.

Your Lucas results just prove that he might have a positive MU against Rosalina. One MU =/= overall viability.

If you want more examples (since you couldn't disprove Link): Palutena. She's randomly placed well in a handful of tournaments and now we have some people going "zong see she's good she's mid tier". Still got people who think Roy's mid tier. DHD is another one. All three have seen the light of day in the top 8 of larger tournaments, like Samus has.

Almost every single character in low tier have people claiming they aren't low tier I'm afraid. I'm also afraid they're almost all wrong. They all keep getting spikes of activity, maybe even for an extended stretch of like a month or 6 weeks, then it dies back down.

In this game, that defines low tier. This ain't Brawl, ability to get results =/= mid tier. It needs to be more than just that. Need to be a constant show at tournaments, need to be a presence at at least some major (not just large) tournaments and do more than just make it out of pools. And they need to repeatedly do it at that level.

Lucas might make it out of low tier. That's the only one I'd put any money on, they'd have to keep the results up for longer. The other ones I don't see having a shot short of another patch.

I know some people don't like this saying but its a fact: some characters have to be low tier. It exists and its more than 4 characters. We have to draw the line somewhere. Low tier doesn't mean unusable.

 

[DMWN]

A positive matchup against Rosalina is still notable. That being said...

+
- because i hate the color blue

()


What has Corrin done worth noting? Why are these same people downvoting a character who's at least done something? Lucas will continue to get noteworthy results, buffs or no buffs. Keep on downvoting, though--it'll make you all the saltier after being destroyed by him.

Nidtendofreak The difference here is that Lucas and Palutena took time to get results. Roy was only popular when he first came out because everyone complained that they were getting killed at 30%. Lucas and Palutena took time to get results--and Lucas is beating far more than just Rosalina in Japan. Mekos, the best Lucas in Brawl, took a game off of Pink Fresh even though the former had been inactive for an extremely long time and the latter had pioneered Lucas's metagame before more Lucas mains popped up, meaning he has incredible knowledge on the character. Speaking of this knowledge, Pink Fresh himself says he believes Lucas is at the bottom of high tier, which is really something coming from someone who nearly dropped him.

Palutena is continuing to get results, especially in Canada. Just because these characters don't place top 8 in every large tournament (even though they do fairly frequently) does not mean they're not as good as they're speculated to be.

 

[Y2Kay]

+
- because i hate the color blue

What brilliant synopsis

 

[Rhinomaster22]

A positive matchup against Rosalina is still notable. That being said...

+
- because i hate the color blue

()


What has Corrin done worth noting? Why are these same people downvoting a character who's at least done something? Lucas will continue to get noteworthy results, buffs or no buffs. Keep on downvoting, though--it'll make you all the saltier after being destroyed by him.

Nidtendofreak The difference here is that Lucas and Palutena took time to get results. Roy was only popular when he first came out because everyone complained that they were getting killed at 30%. Lucas and Palutena took time to get results--and Lucas is beating far more than just Rosalina in Japan. Mekos, the best Lucas in Brawl, took a game off of Pink Fresh even though the former had been inactive for an extremely long time and the latter had pioneered Lucas's metagame before more Lucas mains popped up, meaning he has incredible knowledge on the character. Speaking of this knowledge, Pink Fresh himself says he believes Lucas is at the bottom of high tier, which is really something coming from someone who nearly dropped him.

Palutena is continuing to get results, especially in Canada. Just because these characters don't place top 8 in every large tournament (even though they do fairly frequently) does not mean they're not as good as they're speculated to be.

You hate blue? That's racist

 

[jespoke]

I looked back at my vote a day later and made some super minor changes including my + vote.

I have a feeling no-one will be moving anywhere this round since both the top () and the bottom () are really controversial tierlist wise.

 

[Deleted member]

What brilliant synopsis

What an insightful response.

 

[TimG57867]

3:
()

+ 1
- 1

Edit: When I advocated for 7 tiers, I thought a good number of characters would stay in Tiers 4,5, and 6. But with so many random people getting random characters up tiers for the heck of it, the higher tiers are now too crowded. I felt seven was the best balance but given the tier list's current state, I guess splitting tier 3 is needed. Might change the Lucas downvote a to a Mii Brawler one if people start getting crazy.

 

[Y2Kay]

What an insightful response.

there isn't much to say

blue is a beautiful color

 

[Deleted member]

there isn't much to say

blue is a beautiful color

Lucario isn't a beautiful character.

 

[Y2Kay]

For real though let's avoid downvoting characters for the sake of a joke.

 

[DMWN]

For real though let's avoid downvoting characters for the sake of a joke.

I have more reasons than that. I just reserve the right not to list them.
(I still love Lucario and believe he's a very capable character, he just hasn't been showing it as much as he had earlier on in this metagame.)