Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Deleted member]

5:
6:
7:

+

You forgot Palutena.

 

[Y2Kay]

You guys need to tell me what has done to deserve these up votes over

 

[Deleted member]

You guys need to tell me what has done to deserve these up votes over

Nicko is ranked 9th in SoCal and gets fairly good placings there (been this way for quite a while now), he recently just beat Rich Brown at the latest Fire & Dice. He's a Shulk main before you ask, he only uses for Sonic and Fox. Tremendo Dude gets decent regional placings here in FL and Darkwolf also performs well in Canada.

His theory is still decent and I still believe he can make it to the higher ends of low tier (or dare I say near bottom of mid tier, but people will just shut me down and say "lolololo Shulk is irrelevant you can't believe that"), the problem is Shulk players lack reliable ways to travel since they are not sponsored. Just gonna say if Nicko made it to a national, he'd expose a ****ton of people.

 

[LRodC]

You forgot Palutena.

She's below Shulk and above the king for me. Fixed.

 

[SpaceCanary]

You guys need to tell me what has done to deserve these up votes over

My guess is that some people like Shulk's versatility in Monado Arts. Shulk can "stat-chase" characters that have an obvious advantage over him w/o Arts on, for example, Sonic is much faster, but Shulk can activate Speed art to alleviate the mobility gap. Shulk's only pervasive weakness is his frame data, but it hurts him a lot.

Don't worry, though. I believe that has enough upvotes that he will be moving up, but Shulk won't.

 

[Browny]

UPDATED

Shulk and DHD were both clear favourites to move up a tier, but only Shulk had the unanimous votes. In the next phase, feel free to vote the tier either as one, or split it into 2. I'm limiting it to two as I don't want the final list to have too many tiers.

 

[DMWN]

That mini tier bugs the hell outta me. I feel like Roy and Palutena's tier should merge with the one above. Will this be possible in a later stage (assuming others agree)?

SpaceCanary rip the dream eh



+Robin (I know it's a stretch, but...)

 

[VizionarY]

Wow you guys! I really appreciate the Shulk upvotes, I haven't been on in a while due to finals coming up and whatnot but yeah much appreciated seeing so much support and agreement on my main.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Before you vote, I would like you all to keep this in mind: "Mii fighters are allowed full movesets and sizes".

Edit: They are now Guest XXXX.

 

[LRodC]

+

 

[Deleted member]

+
-

 

[Bigbomb2]

4.
+ He's janky enough to be 3 I believe
I feel like all of tier 4 are all pretty well on equal footing. They're also really fun to play

 

[Tizio Random]

That mini tier bugs the hell outta me. I feel like Roy and Palutena's tier should merge with the one above. Will this be possible in a later stage (assuming others agree)?

I also agree. However:

4.

+

 

[Zerp]

4:BL
I hope I didn't forget anyone.

 

[Phuckyew]

+
+

Further to this, people can vote ONE character to move up into tier 3 and ONE character down into tier 5.

 

[Phuckyew]

4:

Considering the Mii's are still any size XXXX, I once again have to give my vote to:
+
Any size XXXX gunner is simply insane. I give the gunner the rise to tier 3 as opposed to (still deserving of a rise imo) because of the incredible zoning tools they have at their disposal.

If the Mii's were restricted to default height and/or 1111 moveset, I would easily give my vote to the master of traps/jank

I am going to hold onto my - vote for now. I feel everybody here outclass the characters in tier 5.

 

[AlphaSSB]

4:

+
-

 

[ShadowGuy1]

4:

+
-

Why are you down voting the mii :o. (Just curious, cause it's Any Size XXXX which is not knowledgable tournament rise so that could be a reason)

 

[Xandercosm]

+1This character is insanely underrated. He has such devestating traps, solid power, all-around good frame-data, and good representation to boot.

-1Bad frame data, unfortunate top-tier MUs, awful mobility, gimpable recovery, etc. Sadly, I feel like Link just doesn't have a place in this tier. His weaknesses outweigh his strengths.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Spoiler

4:

4:
NEW TIER:

+1(imo Pac-Man has a ton of theory way better then people are saying he has, and the same with his matchup chart, way better than others say)

-1(This is intended to be a real tier list, not a joke. Not being official doesn't make it a joke tier list)

 

[Y2Kay]

4:

+
-

Pac Man really isn't that good. Doesn't have great rep, has a hard Tim sealing a stock, and can struggle if the opponent knows what they're doing. Unfortunately, people really don't know what to do when fighting the character, so they let them get away with a lot things Pac shouldn't. Tier 4 is good home for him, and is definitely weaker than the characters above him.

 

[jespoke]

I don't think mega-tiers are useful to discussion in any way, so I'm definitely splitting it.
*
*

I don't feel comfortable with + or - voting any of these.

 

[_Jack_]

4:

-1

I don't think any of these characters deserve to move up, so I obviously have no upvote.

 

[lbrasz44]

+1

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

()

+ Theory is great, but since no one seems to care that much about theory, I'll go into results. People vote him down as if Abadango dropping Pac-Man meant he now has no big results. However, we still have Zage, who consistently gets high placements at Xanadu, Koolaid, who's been getting great results including FIRST in Pound 2016 doubles, and Tea, who probably has the most ridiculous item play; all of whom have been recognized by ZeRo as being masters at their art. In fact, the lack of international threat like Aba helps Pac-mains, as fewer top players will have the matchup experience anymore. He's a fantastic character that I think too many people underrate, and I'm really excited that other people are finally agreeing with me about this. :D

No - vote.

EDIT: Moved Miis down now that they are guest size.
EDIT 2: Moved Link considerably higher.

 

[Dream Cancel]

4:
5:

?:

+1 Olimar

Hopefully I didn't miss any. The low-mid tiers are always such a hassle to organize.

 

[Routa]

I would love to hear the reasoning behind placing Swordfighter and Gunner so low. I can somewhat understand it if this were Guest size, but we are talking about Any size XXXX. You guys do realize how bonkers these characters are? Even in guest size Gunner deserves to be 1 tier higher and Swordfighters being in the top part of this tier.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Remember that Miis are any size xxxx, which gives them a lot of flexibility and extra power. I don't think we really need more tiers though, 7 is plenty. Characters are getting ranked within tiers anyway, so you'll see that, say, Mr. Game and Watch is low tier 4 and Olimar is high tier 4.

4:

+

Edit: Switched places with Mii Gunner and Mii Swordfighter and switched my upvote to Mii Swordfighter from Mii Gunner. People have been downvoting Mii Swordfighter, and I don't think they are tier 5 with Guest XXXX, so my upvote is to try to keep them in tier 4. Mii Gunner is stronger though, but in this case, it's probably worth it to have my list slightly inaccurate in order to help Keep Mii Swordfighter fall to tier 5.

Edit 2: I removed my Link downvote since it's clear that plenty of people think that he should stay in tier 4 and are spending their upvotes to counter the Link downvotes. I'd rather they actually spend their upvotes for someone they think should move to tier 3.

 

[Deleted member]

I would love to hear the reasoning behind placing Swordfighter and Gunner so low. I can somewhat understand it if this were Guest size, but we are talking about Any size XXXX. You guys do realize how bonkers these characters are? Even in guest size Gunner deserves to be 1 tier higher and Swordfighters being in the top part of this tier.

People don't wanna read the OP, it seems.

Any specials Gunner is indeed bonkers.

 

[Ze Diglett]

+
-
Deciding on's spot was really difficult; while I've heard a lot of things about it, I haven't really seen any of it in action, which is why I chose to put them in the lower of the two tiers.

 

[SpaceCanary]

No upvote or downvote yet (but that can always change).

 

[Dream Cancel]

I did not see the part where it's XXXX any size Miis. Regardless, I have absolutely no idea where to place them due to them being restricted to default in my area, (Houston, TX) and no one of note mains them. (Yes, Trela plays swordfighter but he mains Ryu)

I might as well exclude them from my vote. Could someone direct me to where I can find evidence of their viability?

 

[phire_]

+
-

 

[Stick Dude]

+1

 

[Bowserboy3]

4:(/)

Bowser and Wii Fit I feel are fairly on the same level. They can be interchanged.

I really don't feel the need that anybody should move about; i'm happy for them to stay together in this tier. However, I am already seeing votes that unsettle me, so yes, I may have to "countervote", so to speak.

-1: Lucina has already gained a few upvotes, and Link has gained a few downvotes. My personal feeling is that they don't deserve to be up or down a tier respectively. Lucina just isn't on Marth's level, and is far from his recent results.
+1: Link gets lots of results in Europe, and I feel is more viable than the characters below him, with some very safe moves that people refuse to look at and just assume he has "bad frame data" (which, while he does, his moves aren't bad when played correctly. Mindless moves get him punished hard). Ftilt is rather safe on shield, and fast fall Fair 1 is very safe on shield. He has overall less landing lag than a lot of characters too (sporting 3 moves ranging from 8 to 12 frames). Link also has FAR more overall results than the characters below him. Results don't mean everything however, which is why I feel he is fine in this tier, as his sub par frame data does hold him back from being any higher. However, it does not keep him in the lower tiers.

(also, please excuse me Mii mains! I will honestly hold my hand up and say that I feel I don't know enough about the Miis to accurately place them, so I just left them at the bottom of this tier).

 

[Frihetsanka]

I would love to hear the reasoning behind placing Swordfighter and Gunner so low. I can somewhat understand it if this were Guest size, but we are talking about Any size XXXX. You guys do realize how bonkers these characters are? Even in guest size Gunner deserves to be 1 tier higher and Swordfighters being in the top part of this tier.

(also, please excuse me Mii mains! I will honestly hold my hand up and say that I feel I don't know enough about the Miis to accurately place them, so I just left them at the bottom of this tier).

I did not see the part where it's XXXX any size Miis. Regardless, I have absolutely no idea where to place them due to them being restricted to default in my area, (Houston, TX) and no one of note mains them. (Yes, Trela plays swordfighter but he mains Ryu)

People don't wanna read the OP, it seems.

Any specials Gunner is indeed bonkers.

Reading the posts it seems to me that people don't know enough about Any Size XXXX Miis to properly place them. At this rate, Any Size XXXX Brawler might not even move up to Tier 2, despite Dapuffster taking 13th/top 16 place in Evo. Mii Gunner was played by Wii Twerk Trainer, who took 25th/top 32. It probably doesn't help that Miis are often restricted and thus people might be vary of playing them, so they're likely to be underrepresented, even when allowed any size and custom moves (and, if I'm not mistaken, Evo 2015 was not quite "Any Size", they had a few pre-set sizes to choose from).

Perhaps it would be a good idea to switch to Guest XXXX? I suspect that's a bit easier to rate for many people, and Guest XXXX is probably more common than Any Size XXXX anyway. It might be a bit awkward to switch mid-voting, so perhaps it should be considered once every tier is done and we're going to do some readjustments of the previous tiers? That might take a while, though.

Edit: They are now Guest XXXX.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Reading the posts it seems to me that people don't know enough about Any Size XXXX Miis to properly place them.

No, it's just I don't know enough about Mii's full stop. Regardless of what their ruling would be, It still wouldn't help because I just don't know enough about them, and I think this is what others feel too.

I do know that when they aren't restricted to the god-awful silly rule of Guest 1111, they aren't too bad characters.

I do feel Guest XXXX is probably the best way to go however. The only thing that I feel should be even remotely in question about the Mii's viability and ruling are their sizes. Their moves are active in the "Customs Off", so that signals to me that all of their moves should be available. Because you can change the size of the Mii, going Guest size is probably for the best, because it's the fair, middle of the road option, and because it doesn't require any set up on a Wii U.

If I am totally honest, I probably know a tiny bit more about specific Mii custom movesets than the Guest 1111, due to playing certain Mii users (you know who you are!). Even so, because I don't play against the Mii's on a common basis, I can't draw an accurate conclusion on their abilities, whatever their ruling will be.

But whatever, I also agree that we should be doing Guest XXXX.

Also, while I rarely play the Mii's, I very much enjoy using Gunner Guest 3332. That Bomb Drop followed by a Grenade Launch can cover most approach options I find.

 

[Kaiduru Zeta]

4:
+
Wii Fit Trainer might actually be able to touch the bottom of tier 3. (Might just be my heavy bias towards her)
-

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

I legit don't think know if any of these characters deserve to go up or down...

 

[TimG57867]

No, it's just I don't know enough about Mii's full stop. Regardless of what their ruling would be, It still wouldn't help because I just don't know enough about them, and I think this is what others feel too.

I do know that when they aren't restricted to the god-awful silly rule of Guest 1111, they aren't too bad characters.

I do feel Guest XXXX is probably the best way to go however. The only thing that I feel should be even remotely in question about the Mii's viability and ruling are their sizes. Their moves are active in the "Customs Off", so that signals to me that all of their moves should be available. Because you can change the size of the Mii, going Guest size is probably for the best, because it's the fair, middle of the road option, and because it doesn't require any set up on a Wii U.

If I am totally honest, I probably know a tiny bit more about specific Mii custom movesets than the Guest 1111, due to playing certain Mii users (you know who you are!). Even so, because I don't play against the Mii's on a common basis, I can't draw an accurate conclusion on their abilities, whatever their ruling will be.

But whatever, I also agree that we should be doing Guest XXXX.

Also, while I rarely play the Mii's, I very much enjoy using Gunner Guest 3332. That Bomb Drop followed by a Grenade Launch can cover most approach options I find.

THIS is what I've been saying for like 5 pages. Ranking Mii's in Any Size XXXX just doesn't make any sense. Right off the bat, giving them all their sizes would make this tier list pointless because most tournaments won't even let you change the size. The Mii's turn up in tournaments so rarely that even properly ranking the Guest size Mii's can be a challenge. But at they actually CAN turn up. (For instance if you go to a Youtube channel called Geeky Goon Squad which is a European Smash Channel, you'll see a surprising amount of Mii Brawler action). Big and Small Miis virtually NEVER turn up in non-customs tourneys so ranking them would not only be useless but purely theoretical. Furthermore, if we gave Miis all their sizes, then what size should be the one representative of their spot on the tier list. Sure small Mii Brawler is a monster but what about Big and Guest? Do we just rank Mii Brawler only around the widely believe best size or do we factor in the other ones too? I mean what if some ignorant oaf sees Mii Brawler in Tier 2 but for whatever reason goes with the Big or Guest size and doesn't do nearly as well as they were led on? Miis having all their moves already opens up a plethora of questions about their potential, especially for Gunner and Swordsman. (Although having all their moves is fair). Why should we make ranking them even more dubious by throwing in two more sizes that you can even use?

Note that none of this is to say that Guest XXXX is bad (although I am not sure if they'd be getting all these upvotes if that's what the OP said). I am just saying that if we're going to make a tier list about the standard meta, we should rank who's actually allowed to be in it which in the Miis case is generally Guest XXXX. Guest XXXX is pretty rare too but at least it has tournament sets online and doesn't have to be pure theorycraft. I mean tons of people here don't like it when people try to upvote characters with no results so why are we making an exception for characters you can't even use?

Browny , I am not sure if you've seen this topic before, but I for one highly insist that you change the voting ruleset on the Miis to Guest XXXX, solely because that's the format tournaments will actually allow to play right now. It also make voting more productive because as you can see many people here don't feel comfortable ranking the Miis when they have 2 more nonlegal sizes to have to take into account.

EDIT: Great that this change has finally been made. Now I can vote comfortably:


4:

+ 1
- 1