Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[TMNTSSB4]

+
-(Tier 2 Boys)

 

[Deleted member]

What reason is there that Mario shouldn't be in tier 1?

 

[FamilyTeam]

What reason is there that Mario shouldn't be in tier 1?

Well, Mario has range problems.
I don't know if it's enough to steer him away from Tier 1, though. IMO, he was always Top 7, but I was also iffy about putting him in Top 5.

 

[Djmarcus44]

+1
+1
+1
+ 1
+ 1

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

+
-

 

[Ze Diglett]

+1Get back up there, ya silly goose.
-1Bit confused as to how she's still T1 after the nerfs... from what I gathered, they were pretty damn devastating.
+1Uhmm....?
-1????
+1A character with Chomp as a move isn't tier 4.

 

[Deleted member]

+1Get back up there, ya silly goose.
-1Bit confused as to how she's still T1 after the nerfs... from what I gathered, they were pretty damn devastating.
+1Uhmm....?
-1????
+1A character with Chomp as a move isn't tier 4.

Sheik's nerfs were bad, but she's still top 5. She's still getting top 8 placements at all levels of play, and most of her mains are sticking with her. She also got 4th at Pound.

Also, curious about the Lucina downvote. I really hope this doesn't cause a trend where she falls an entire tier again.

 

[jespoke]

Of all the characters where i know where i want them (Sorry low tiers, you are confusing to rank), Cloud and Lucina are the only ones that feel out of place. But Lucina will get plenty - votes without me joining in.
+

Some people will want Sonic, Ryu and Mario out of top tier, but i would much rather have them stay there and boost the top of tier 3 into 2 instead. Therefore I'll go with:
Edit: This plan went nowhere, so I've changed the votes to ones that will have more impact
+
-

The rest i will keep around for now in case people try to make too much space between Mario-Sonic-Fox, or demote Sheik or something.

 

[Yoshister]

Why should Lucina be in a separate tier from Marth?

 

[Deleted member]

Why should Lucina be in a separate tier from Marth?

because people still think having a balanced sword rather than a tipper automatically means a tier difference. Marth and Lucina literally have the same matchups, LOL

I'm still advocating them being next to each other like the Pits. There's legit no reason why they shouldn't be.

 

[jespoke]

Why should Lucina be in a separate tier from Marth?

For me, Lucina belongs close behind, but definitely a few spots behind Marth. It just happens that Marth has found his spot at the very bottom of a tier.

I would leave Marth exactly where he is now, and move Lucina to spot 2-3 of the next tier

 

[ShadowGuy1]

because people still think having a balanced sword rather than a tipper automatically means a tier difference. Marth and Lucina literally have the same matchups, LOL

I'm still advocating them being next to each other like the Pits. There's legit no reason why they shouldn't be.

Thing is, I don't think Lucy is a tier 3 despite the similarites. Tier 3 needs theory and results, or just great theory. Lucy has very little of both. Still love her though and combining them might be the best. Or have her near the top of 4

 

[Yoshister]

For me, Lucina belongs close behind, but definitely a few spots behind Marth. It just happens that Marth has found his spot in my mind at the very bottom of a tier.

I personally think that Lucina is similar enough to Marth to the point that she should be right under Marth.

She should either be at the bottom of tier 2 or right under Marth at the top of tier 3.

She's basically slightly worse Marth. Why do we need results to prove this?

Theory > Results IMO (Depending on the character)

 

[FamilyTeam]

For me, Lucina belongs close behind, but definitely a few spots behind Marth. It just happens that Marth has found his spot at the very bottom of a tier.

I would leave Marth exactly where he is now, and move Lucina to spot 2-3 of the next tier

I thought that, in this tier list, characters weren't ranked within the tiers, though, so the order didn't matter?

 

[Yoshister]

I thought that, in this tier list, characters weren't ranked within the tiers, though, so the order didn't matter?

This is the last vote before phase 2, where we vote character order in each tier.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Why should Lucina be in a separate tier from Marth?

In reality, Marth has been FAR more active than Lucina. People can argue as much as they like about them being almost the same etc, but you can't deny that Marth has more players, and more results. While Lucina's sword does have it's advantages in certain matchups, Marth's sword is overall far better, not only because of it's power and safety at max range, but it's ability to mix up options based on if you hit a tipper or sourspot.

I am by no way implying Lucina is bad at all. If Marth is good, Lucina in turn, is pretty solid also. However, considering Marth's results and Lucina's lack thereof, I can't at all see why Lucina should be in tier 3. If Marth is in tier 3, I think Lucina should be somewhere near the top of tier 4.

---

With that said...
+1: Obligatory Marth up vote because after his buffs (and unlike Lucina) he has obtained sufficient results, on a regular basis to prove he can hang with the likes of Ike and R.O.B (unlike Yoshi for example). I will say that this vote does not imply I want Marth to be higher, but more a cautious vote to help keep him here. I WILL remove this vote if necessary.
-1 //: Yeah yeah, these are countervotes so to speak, but I really feel no need to vote for anyone else yet, so whatever. As of three days in, these characters have gained way more upvotes than I feel are needed, so for now, I will do this.
+: Another countervote. Link is my ZeRo "I believe in you Shulk". Link regularly gets results over here in Europe, and while I don't think he's any higher, I honestly don't see any reason to make him any lower. People moan about his frame data, but just remember his best aerials, and approach tools, being Nair, Fair, Bair and Zair have between 8 and 12 frames landing lag, which is extremely minimal. Fair is also extremely safe on shield; it pushes back, has power so causes shield stun, and has minimal landing lag. This alone is a reason Link is at least decent. In fact, most of Link's moves are safe/hard to punish OoS, like Ftilt. People seem to forget his combo game, with great Down Throw and Up/Down Tilts, and while not as good as Toon Link's, he has bomb setups. His Up Air also has insane active frames, almost akin to Cloud's Dair, which catches air dodges. While Link is relatively sluggish and requires lots of precision (there's a fine line between clever usage of his projectiles, and spam, which ultimately is bad for him), he doesn't need to be fast, as his playstyle isn't to get in; it's to harass from afar and bait/force the opponent in, where he can punish.

---
For now, I am leaving it at that. I will wait and see how many votes characters like , and get before I vote on them. The rest of the list it looking pretty darn solid to me. I initially downvoted , but I removed this as too many votes will see her drop drastically, and I really only want to see her in tier 4. Like, If Marth is at the lower end of tier 3, I could see Lucina near the top or at the top of tier 4.

 

[Deleted member]

A Mega Man just got 4th at Umebura last night and ScAtt legit needs no introduction when it comes to how much he's done for the character's metagame. He definitely deserves to be sitting higher in mid tier if you had to ask me.

 

[Furret24]

-1
-1
-1
-1
+1

 

[Y2Kay]

-1
-1
-1
-1
honestly these three's results are simply not on the same calliber as the other characters in their tier. low mid and high tier, respectively, is just fine for right now.

+1

Honestly I feel he has a similar problem as He isn't a secret high tier like we originally thought, but he's decent. He doesn't have have a lot of representation, but bottom tier is kind of pushing it. Low tier is a fine home for him at the moment

I'm out of votes but I'm just gonna say that tiers 1 and 2 are messy right now. I'd put like this, in case you cared:

1:
2:

 

[Stick Dude]

+1
-1
-1
-1
-1

 

[jespoke]

I'm out of votes but I'm just gonna say that tiers 1 and 2 are messy right now. I'd put like this, in case you cared:

1:
2:

I think the order is fine (Missing Sonic of course) but as i see it the trio of Sonic, Mario and Fox are generally closer to the 6 above them than the 6 below.

 

[Deleted member]

-1
-1
-1
-1
honestly these three's results are simply not on the same calliber as the other characters in their tier. low mid and high tier, respectively, is just fine for right now.

+1

Honestly I feel he has a similar problem as He isn't a secret high tier like we originally thought, but he's decent. He doesn't have have a lot of representation, but bottom tier is kind of pushing it. Low tier is a fine home for him at the moment

I'm out of votes but I'm just gonna say that tiers 1 and 2 are messy right now. I'd put like this, in case you cared:

1:
2:

>sees emo Cloud instead of SOLDIER Cloud

this post gets an automatic 0/10. kappa

I disagree with Villager being better than Ness, by the way. I feel like you're heavily underestimating Marth by just saying he's "low-mid" tier.

 

[Bowserboy3]

because people still think having a balanced sword rather than a tipper automatically means a tier difference. Marth and Lucina literally have the same matchups, LOL

And this is why we have problems in situations like this. Marth and Lucina do not have the same matchups. Let me list a few notable differences.

has a better time inparticular with:
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

has a better time in particular with:
,,. and arguably .

While all their matchups don't have much variance (IE if one wins, the other should win), their matchups do differ. Take the ones I listed for Marth...

Marth has a better time in those matchups than Lucina because in order to be safe with aerials, you must space them at tipper range. Sourspots or the Parallel Falchion still aren't exactly the safest. You'll notice that the characters above also either have slow ground options or lack abusable OoS options (sans Mario's), which just makes this point better.

Lucina on the other hand has a much better time against characters where the sourspot is useless, or characters that can get in your face easily, or are fast and harder to track down.

I'll also just mention something that occured to me too. Both Marth and Lucina's 2 frame ledge snap punishes, being Dtilt and Fsmash, only work if you land with the tip hitbox, as the other hitboxes are too high up/don't reach below the stage. Gee, I wonder who that benefits more?

 

[Y2Kay]

And this is why we have problems in situations like this. Marth and Lucina do not have the same matchups. Let me list a few notable differences.

has a better time inparticular with:
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

has a better time in particular with:
,,. and arguably .

While all their matchups don't have much variance (IE if one wins, the other should win). However, their matchups do differ. Take the ones I listed for Marth...

Marth has a better time in those matchups than Lucina because in order to be safe with aerials, you must space them at tipper range. Sourspots or the Parallel Falchion still aren't exactly the safest. You'll notice that the characters above also either have slow ground options or lack abusable OoS options (sans Mario's), which just makes this point better.

Lucina on the other hand has a much better time against characters where the sourspot is useless, or characters that can get in your face easily, or are fast and harder to track down.

I'll also just mention something that occured to me too. Both Marth and Lucina's 2 frame ledge snap punishes, being Dtilt and Fsmash, only work if you land with the tip hitbox, as the other hitboxes are too high up/don't reach below the stage. Gee, I wonder who that benefits more?

Would you rather go Lucina against Marth Or a Marth ditto?

 

[Rhinomaster22]

(Probably gonna get upvoted to hell so i''ll vote Cornbread and Dog Jesus instead.)
+
+
+
+ The Blue Bomber has been doing very we'll thanks to Scatt
- While he possess super strong setups and fantastic kill power. Ryu overall hasn't been showing any result warranting tier 1 IMO

 

[ShadowGuy1]

What is with all these CORRIN UPVOTEs. What did I miss?

 

[apparently fuz]

+1
+1

That's it for now. Will add my extra votes later on.

 

[Y2Kay]

Y'all do know that Megaman is in tier 3 right?

I don't think Megaman is tier 2. Tier 3 is fine, he's just proven himself to keep his current place.

 

[Deleted member]

Y'all do know that Megaman is in tier 3 right?

I don't think Megaman is tier 2. Tier 3 is fine, he's just proven himself to keep his current place.

They're just two countervotes. I doubt it will change much.

 

[Y2Kay]

They're just two countervotes. I doubt it will change much.

People are downvoting him? Lol

And you can't rip off this Mewtwo swag

 

[Bowserboy3]

Would you rather go Lucina against Marth Or a Marth ditto?

Toughie. That's an odd matchup whatever way you look at it. I personally would go Marth. I've played both the Marth ditto and Marth v Lucina matchup a lot; one of my friends mains Lucina, and I have played against Marth players such as Mr E and BelakXvibe (a great Marth Youtuber) before. Against Lucina, my win rate is far superior than in the Marth ditto. This implies to me that Lucina against Marth could be a bit tougher for her, I don't know.

But yeah, i'd definetly go Marth.

In fact, i've been questioning a lot of the matchup claims a lot lately. For example, it's been historically stated that Lucina does slightly better against Falcon. I always believed this, but lately I have been unsure. Played safely and defensively, Falcon can't do much against Marth; he has to get in to cause damage. At my tournament yesterday, I managed to beat the best Falcon in our area using just Marth too, adopting this playstyle. Lucina might be able to KO him a bit easier, but with Marth, I believe it's a lot easier to space Falcon out, so that one I am now unsure what I believe.

Sonic is another iffy one for me. Again, while Lucina can hit him more reliably due to his speed, I recently discovered that if you shield Spin Dash, when/if Sonic jumps, he is in the perfect range for an easy tipper Back Air. This being one of Sonic's main options makes me question whether Lucina has a much better time in this matchup also.

 

[Deleted member]

People are downvoting him? Lol

And you can't rip off this Mewtwo swag

Yeah, peeps are downvoting him.

I can rip off what swag I want. We are brothers of the Cerulean Cave.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

People are downvoting him? Lol

And you can't rip off this Mewtwo swag

Don't let anyone ever steal your Mewtwo swag

 

[Xandercosm]

-1People like @Feelicks will eventually realize that, in the long run, the lack of tipper will be a huge deal. Sadly, she will always remain a pure theory character that few will actually play.
+1Just to make sure he doesn't drop since that would be silly.
-1I hate to say it but what the heck has R.O.B. done recently? Correct me if I'm wrong (please, I like this character) but he seems to be really stagnating and I just don't see him above a lot of the characters in his current tier.
+1I still feel like he's a bit underrated. I feel like he could go a bit higher especially with help from all his buffs and some recent results.
-1 Just making sure she doesn't go any higher. Until she starts proving her viability in a big way, I think her current position is fine.

 

[Deleted member]

-1People like @Feelicks will eventually realize that, in the long run, the lack of tipper will be a huge deal. Sadly, she will always remain a pure theory character that few will actually play.
+1Just to make sure he doesn't drop since that would be silly.
-1I hate to say it but what the heck has R.O.B. done recently? Correct me if I'm wrong (please, I like this character) but he seems to be really stagnating and I just don't see him above a lot of the characters in his current tier.
+1I still feel like he's a bit underrated. I feel like he could go a bit higher especially with help from all his buffs and some recent results.

Saving my last vote.

Was that jab at me really necessary?

 

[Y2Kay]

ROB still has good showings at a regional level but really struggles at the highest echelon of play.

You could squeeze some people between Marth and Lucina but whole tier separation is probably too far.

And tagging Feelicks in your post was unnecessary Xander.

 

[Xandercosm]

ROB still has good showings at a regional level but really struggles at the highest echelon of play.

This is pretty much how I feel about R.O.B. right now. I think his biggest issue is how exploitable his giant hurtbox is. I don't really get why it's that huge, though. It seems a bit misshapen for his actual model. Also, his frame data leaves a bit to be desired.

 

[Bowserboy3]

You could squeeze some people between Marth and Lucina but whole tier separation is probably too far.

It depends how you see a "tier separation". If the tier separation ends up being about 3 spaces, then so be it, that's fine. But if by a tier separation, it ends up being around 10 places, then yeah, that isn't exactly right.

Squeezing characters between them just so they stay in the same tier is far more detrimental. IMO, Marth is around the bottom end of tier 3 anyway, so Lucina could be around the top end of tier 4.

 

[FamilyTeam]

+1. Like, Seriously, guys? Do you even see other people's votes before making your own? I do think that Lucina maybe might need to drop a bit, but it kinda looks like you guys want her to be Bottom Tier again, somehow.

 

[Tizio Random]

+1
+1
-1
-1
-1