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'ed..... Hilarious...()Garbage that needs to be taken out.I've said it like a billion times already, but people underestimate his strengths and overestimate his weaknesseswow guys, I agree he's too high but I don't want him too low eitherno. no. NO. Donkey Kong is defitenly not 24th, he's kinda like 28thish. Pac-Man, Yoshi, Lucario, and Luigi are clearly better.Good, now he's athe correct spot..... and people down vote him. yay. not really
Subjective. Personally, I think he's low tier. Mid tier is hardly the "correct" spot for him imo.+1
You sound like me when I used to get mad at people downvoting Palutena and when they upvoted Roy.I was
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While I agree that he's underrated, he's hardly on the same level as Mario, Meta Knight, and Fox.Simply put, she just isn't tier 1 material anymore.Yikes, let's fix that.Yep, still too low for what he's got.Let's all stop for a moment and consider, what, objectively, does G&W have going for him? Well, his damage output and punish ability is pretty stellar; his mobility and recovery aren't half bad... and that's about it. While these strengths are undeniably powerful in the right hands, they aren't nearly enough to mitigate his crippling weaknesses in other areas (super hard time killing, virtually nonexistent neutral, poor survivability, etc.) that keep him from being comparable to Wario, PAC-MAN, Wii Fit, or any of the others in tier 4.
Just thought I let you know that they don't drop in their tier, Browny corrected me on thatI was
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Definitely not the second best I would put him right next to Puff especially now that Zelda and Ganon were buffed Pretty good spot for Mewtwo but people upvote him too much He hasn't got much going for him Link is an amazing character and has received tons of buffs
That's good logic, until you realise that Zelda's buffs really did absolutely nothing for her what-so-ever. That supposed "hoo-hah" has been debunked, it's not true at all.-
(Just so he won't drop to tier 3, though that will still happen)Got 9th and Pound and Top 8 in another Japan tournament. He is like a mini Tink for Pound, so yeh) People act like being hard to learn makes her badWhy?!?!He has about the same theory as Yoshi, and Yoshi is tier 3, so should be tier 3Just by the past couple months, almost every tournament that was looked at included a Marth in top 20, at least from what I've seen. The buffs have really done a service for the guy and consistent results from Pugwest et al really solidify his relevance to the current meta. They weren't as significant as mewtwo's, but the changes to him have just made him an incredibly solid character.By extension from what I've said about Marth, Lucina gets an upvote based purely on principle. I think he isn't that bad. I remember watching a tourny with a guy doing well with this character (forgot the name of the player and tourny haha), and DH can really put on a clinic with the tools he got. There's probably a good reason why the Japanese scene likes the character too. A bit of an outlier compared to others in his tier (Kirby's getting downvoted) from my view. There's a couple dedicated players to the guy but other than that there really isn't anything to show for what Lucario has to offer in terms of relevance and presence in the meta. I'd wager that the top of T4 makes the most sense given the circumstance of the character and the tools he's got. Samesies
Oh what? Quote?
whenever someone tries to persuade others to change their popular votes and start countervoting i look at this and lmfao
+1+1+1+1+1Wouldn't really call Link amazing, and the amount of buffs a character gets doesn't necessarily mean they're good. They're helpful yeah, but characters like Shulk or Ganon haven't risen out of low tier despite receiving nice quality of life buffs.-
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Thing is, sometimes its better to counter vote. Its an opinion if you want to or not, but it can help us from having to waste a vote next time trying to up/down vote someone next time
All of these characters should be within the top 2 tiers in my opinion. Ryu is debatable but I honestly think he belongs up there with the rest of the characters with his amazing tools, punish game, set-ups, combos, edge guarding, etc. Ness doesn't even need to be argued for. Pikachu does lack results but his ridiculous speed, and great combo game should put him up in tier 2. When I look at this tier list, I can't imagine any character currently under Pikachu being above him any time soon. - Great character with a lot of potential, but the character has a lot of limitations. I think he's a very unorthodox match-up which is why people are going so crazy over him right now (along with the fact that he's a good counterpick for Bayo), but ultimately as people begin to understand this character, he'll drop a bit. I think he deserves a spot at the top of tier 3 with Corrin, Tink. - Another solid character but I just don't see him on the same level as Bayo, Cloud, Rosa, etc. A lot of people aren't familiar with this character's weaknesses (he can be grabbed out of spindash, when his dair autocancels the hitbox is gone, he has a very predictable recovery, etc.) but they exist. Definitely think he deserves a spot in the top 10, but not quite on the same level as the top tiers.Great match up spread and results. He's constantly coming and going in my top 5 so I can't leave him out of tier 1.Has a solid match up spread, even against most of the high tiers. Sheik isn't dominating every event like she used to really helps him out.She just isn't in the bottom half of characters in this game.Saw a number of people downvote him. A character with his grab combos (including his kill set up in toot toot that works across the cast), up smash, and comeback factor in 9 hammer is not a low tier. Too many poor match ups to be this high. I can't see him being a better character than G&W, even with his results.
+I was
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DHD supporters 4 life
The thing with G&W is that while his kill moves are super strong, they're difficult to land due to either having small sweetspots and significantly weaker/larger sourspots, having small hitboxes in general, or being laggy and unsafe. As for the moves you mentioned, Up-Smash is admittedly pretty superb, although it still suffers from a lack of range. Toot Toot is the best he has as far as kill setups go, but the % window for it on most characters is slim, especially out of D-throw if you get the execution just right. And 9? That move's slow, has bad range, and is luck-based on top of that. In 1v1's, a G&W who knows what they're doing will pretty much only throw out Judge to show off. All this amounts to a generally terrible time killing for him. Like I said, considering everything that G&W doesn't have - like an actual neutral game, for instance - he is most certainly a low-tier in his current state.+
Bowser worse than G&W? I actually have a bit of trouble believing that. Bowser usually gets more reward off his conversions and Rage helps him out a ton.
: Still has a fantastic neutral and solid matchup spread, despite the nerfs.: Good projectiles, solid tools, great recovery, good damage racking potential, but poor approach options and a lack of representation. Honestly, despite main bias, I feel like he's around the same spot as Pac-Man.: Any buff that gives stronger options OOS and a decent kill confirm with a solid way to rack up damage should lead to at least a small tier increase in my opinion. Also has solid regional tournament performance, which is nice.: Best in the Game, probably. Tier of her own, no. People really need to learn her weaknesses more, just like every other matchup in the game.: Good theoretical matchup spread, but results still inconclusive. Also, I still believe Sheik is a losing matchup despite the nerfs.
/) - (have not earned tier 3 results, has subpar representation aside from Earth)+ (still won a national, still underrated somehow, and still has strong regional results)+ (consistently ranks high at almost every tournament he's in, 2nd at Pound)+ (has enough results to not be the last tier)- (constantly still overrated despite having only one rep and subpar results)
But Bayonetta isn't in her own tier...?-1
+1 - Since 1.1.5, Samus has been buffed quite a bit and I think this warrants her being better than Shulk/MiiGunner/Link. +1 - Mario has an incredibly stellar combo game, a good projectile, and is just the jack-of-all-trades the face of Nintendo is supposed to be. He is exceptional in the sense that he is pretty good at everything, and I think a character like this who is extremely versatile is worthy of being in the likes around Sonic/Shiek. +1 - D3 managed to climb to Tier 6, so should old Ganondorf! He really is not THIS bad to be honest, I think I'd put him above D3/Palutena for sure. -1 - not seeing why he is up there. He has some (janky) stuff going for him but aside from that I don't like his placing in T5 too much, I'd put him just under Roy right now - might change this later
cmon now, we knew I would do this.all theory, same reason people downvote falco, yet they upvote ryu >_> because that totally makes senseJust dont feel him being there. cmon now
This gave me a good laugh.-
People still underrate Bowser like crazy just because he's a heavy character and has poor landing options. I think it's kind of the remainder of the negative stigma against heavies from past games where they were generally significantly worse. At least heavies like DK (and Ike to a lesser extent) have gotten large amounts of attention lately. Maybe someday Bowser will get the same but it's hard to say.
The difference is that on paper Falco is still "bad" unlike Ryu. Ryu does demand more than average competitive player can give if you want to get 100% power off from Ryu. His footsies game is top lvl along with his punish game. Falco is just "eh" in many areas.-
Galgatha
- I can only second what Routa says here. Falco and Ryu both have good theories, but while both are quite tough to play, Ryu gets FAR more reward for being tough to play. rather than "I'm a low tier who has to work really, really hard to succeed in neutral and deal with a notable amount of bad matchups.." 
Thank you for that WFT upvote. I have no idea why they were voting her down. When she's top of tier 4 worthy. Maybe bottom of tier 3....+1
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I wanna vote her up next round. She deserves more attention.
