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Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

Bowserboy3

Bowserboy3

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Xandercosm said:
How does it matter if Mario was top tier at the start of Melee? What was that comment supposed to imply?
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I suppose what it is trying to say is that in the infancy of the metagame, Mario was very high up. However, as the metagame evolved, and people started to figure him/other characters out, he ultimately dropped off. What it's trying to say is that he may be top now, but due to his "average" nature, he could end up fading back a bit.

However, I personally don't see this happening. Realistically speaking, the Mario in Smash 4 is far superior to the Melee Mario. If we are being mean, I don't see him anywhere outside the top 10 at all.

Comparing Melee Mario and Smash 4 Mario made me think of this...

 
Xandercosm

Xandercosm

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Bowserboy3 said:
I suppose what it is trying to say is that in the infancy of the metagame, Mario was very high up. However, as the metagame evolved, and people started to figure him/other characters out, he ultimately dropped off. What it's trying to say is that he may be top now, but due to his "average" nature, he could end up fading back a bit.

However, I personally don't see this happening. Realistically speaking, the Mario in Smash 4 is far superior to the Melee Mario. If we are being mean, I don't see him anywhere outside the top 10 at all.

Comparing Melee Mario and Smash 4 Mario made me think of this...

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LOL that video is hilarious! Yeah, well, I think the meta definitely needs to develop more. However, like you said, I doubt Mario will ever leave the top 10. He's crazy in Smash 4. This is the way he always should have been.
 
itsmeMOB

itsmeMOB

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Djmarcus44 said:
Why do you think that Mii Gunner is bad? Gunner has one of the best neutral games in all of Smash 4 and a decent disadvantage state. Mii Gunner has also been doing pretty well in top level play (ROM has also tied for Ninth with Gunner in a 129 man tournament that had some great players such as Komorikiri, Ranai, 9B, and Ally. He also got 97th in Genesis when he wasn't expected to make it out of the first pool).

Brawler's moveset and frame data are pretty good for low percent combos, but it is lacking in range and killing ability. Mii Brawler's best specials turn Mii Brawler's killing ability into a strength instead of a weakness, but 1111 is the only moveset allowed for Mii Brawler in most tournaments. As I said previously, the best Mii Brawler main that the character had claimed that 1111 brawler is one of the worst characters in the game. There are mii brawler mains that discourage other players from using 1111 brawler because of the character's weaknesses.

Also, predictably isn't a major issue for a character (It is a bigger issue for players than characters). In most cases, it is not an issue that will make a character bad (some examples of this are Mario and Ness). Can you elaborate on that statement?

This spoiler contains information that elaborates on my statements about Mii Gunner's tools.
Mii Gunner has one of the best neutral games in all of Smash 4 with 1111 and with 3312, Gunner's best moveset. This is due to the excellent projectiles Mii Gunner has (fair for 1111 and grenade, missile bomb and fair for 3312), and the movement options that Gunner gets when using them. Mii Gunner also has other moves that are good in the neutral (nair, bair, and pp ftilt to retreat). Mii Gunner also has decent mobility due to a good foxtrot, (it has a value of 1.6, the average run speed of a character), good airspeed (tied for 25th), good aerial acceleration, (tied for 15th) and a gundash that is as fast as a falcon kick without any landing lag. Mii Gunner also has a good juggling and edgeguarding game (his/her combo game is a work in progress, but there are some good true combos and follow ups in the Mii Gunner true combo and follow up thread). Killing with Gunner isn't very easy, but Gunner has a good variety of kill setups (including a kill confirm with 3312 gunner). In addition, mii gunner has good frame data on some killing options (frame 5 up tilt that kills around 135 depending on weight and a frame 9 down smash with good killing power for a smash attack). Mii Gunner also has a solid disadvantage state (although our only combo breaker is our frame 3 reflector, and it's weak hitbox gives it situational use for that purpose) especially with 3312. Bomb drop allows Gunner to land safely in most matchups, and gundashing, flame pillar, stalling with reflector (with 1111 gunner), and lunar launch are also good mix ups to land. Although Mii Gunner is somewhat easy to combo and edgeguard in comparison to the rest of the cast, Mii Gunner is good at surviving since Gunner has a good weight along with the option to gundash to the stage to mix up recovery. Mii Gunner's disadvantage state is also helped by being difficult to jab lock. Although Mii Gunner doesn't have many players to develop his/her metagame or to represent him/her in tournaments, Mii Gunner is definitely not a bad competitive pick relative to the rest of the cast.
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I see your point, but it's based on my experiences with the Mii Gunners I've used and faced, again. This will change for me as I discover more about lower characters.
 
TMNTSSB4

TMNTSSB4

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Bowserboy3 said:
I suppose what it is trying to say is that in the infancy of the metagame, Mario was very high up. However, as the metagame evolved, and people started to figure him/other characters out, he ultimately dropped off. What it's trying to say is that he may be top now, but due to his "average" nature, he could end up fading back a bit.

However, I personally don't see this happening. Realistically speaking, the Mario in Smash 4 is far superior to the Melee Mario. If we are being mean, I don't see him anywhere outside the top 10 at all.

Comparing Melee Mario and Smash 4 Mario made me think of this...

Click to expand...
Dude! Mario would be so op in Melee if he was like this.
 
Xandercosm

Xandercosm

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TMNTSSB4 said:
I find it sad aswell(but atleast there's Sm4sh)
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I actually think Nintendo should have shut PM down from day 1. What makes me so sad is that this group of "kids" worked for so many years on it before it had to be terminated due to legal issues. At the end of the day, it was a basically a ripoff of Smash and deserved to be shut down but it's sad that Nintendo let it go for so long.
 
TMNTSSB4

TMNTSSB4

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Xandercosm said:
I actually think Nintendo should have shut PM down from day 1. What makes me so sad is that this group of "kids" worked for so many years on it before it had to be terminated due to legal issues. At the end of the day, it was a basically a ripoff of Smash and deserved to be shut down but it's sad that Nintendo let it go for so long.
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Well they never really cared for the competitive scene until Smash 4, so I guess Nintendo didn't bother
 
TMNTSSB4

TMNTSSB4

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Xandercosm said:
Hmm... That's good point. Maybe they figured that it didn't interfere enough to matter. However, they did show signs of warning toward the PM dev team in prior years.
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And they either ignored it or didn't know what they meant
 
Wintermelon43

Wintermelon43

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Plot Twist:Nintendo forced the PM team to stop updating it and pretend like they just wanted too
 
Xandercosm

Xandercosm

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It would have been so much better if they had shut it down from day one like all other fan projects so that there wouldn't be a rather large fanbase and a dev team to be disappointed.
 
Furret24

Furret24

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Xandercosm said:
It would have been so much better if they had shut it down from day one like all other fan projects so that there wouldn't be a rather large fanbase and a dev team to be disappointed.
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I'd rather it not be shut down at all.
 
Xandercosm

Xandercosm

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Bash2King said:
wheres 1.1.3s tier list?
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Right behind you... :lol:

But, seriously, that reminds me that this thread has taken quite a long break from voting. I can't wait till we can start it back up! But when are we going to, by the way? Do we wait till the new DLC characters develop in the meta or just vote right from the get-go?
 
ShadowGuy1

ShadowGuy1

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Xandercosm said:
Right behind you... :lol:

But, seriously, that reminds me that this thread has taken quite a long break from voting. I can't wait till we can start it back up! But when are we going to, by the way? Do we wait till the new DLC characters develop in the meta or just vote right from the get-go?
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We are going to vote when Bayo/Corrin are released. It might be a few days after but idk.
 
L1N3R1D3R

L1N3R1D3R

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Xandercosm said:
But what I'm wondering is: Are we going to include Bayo/Corrin in the vote or not? Because people seem to be unsure of wether we should let the meta of brand new DLC characters develop before voting or not.
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Why would we deliberately wait that long if we weren't going to include them? I mean, yeah, there's the balance patch, but that would also change the meta like DLC characters would.
 
Xandercosm

Xandercosm

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TMNTSSB4 said:
He's been the same for months and still hasn't been banned...he destroyed the luck button
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I've said the things everyone else is thinking. ;)

TMNTSSB4 said:
Why would we deliberately wait that long if we weren't going to include them? I mean, yeah, there's the balance patch, but that would also change the meta like DLC characters would.
Click to expand...
I guess you're right. It just seemed like it was up for debate before. I guess I must have missed some decision-making earlier.
 
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TMNTSSB4

TMNTSSB4

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Xandercosm said:
I've said the things everyone else is thinking. ;)



I guess you're right. It just seemed like it was up for debate before. I guess I must have missed some decision-making earlier.
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Why do it say my name twice when the 2nd quote isn't even from me? Illuminati type stuff right there.
 
AvengerV

AvengerV

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I honestly don't think Mario is as good as some people say he is. I personally think :4sheik::4zss::rosalina::4diddy::4sonic::4metaknight::4ryu::4fox::4pikachu: and maybe :4villager: are all better characters. Mario might not even be top 10 but is still viable though.
 
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