Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I can see why he wouldn't like Tier 2. Ryu is in it when he should be in Tier 1, Mario is above Sonic and Diddy Kong, and Villager and Pikachu somehow aren't in it.

Tier 1 is, from what I'm understanding, for fighters who don't suffer from much, if any weaknesses. Rosalina doesn't fit that criteria, however, which is why I was thinking that she should've been placed in tier 2.

 

[Wintermelon43]

I can see why he wouldn't like Tier 2. Ryu is in it when he should be in Tier 1, Mario is above Sonic and Diddy Kong, and Villager and Pikachu somehow aren't in it.

TBH I think Ryu's posisten is perfect. And Diddy Kong is defitenly not better than Mario.

 

[Zeth444]

What do you disagree with tier 2?

Y U hate tier 2?

I dont hate it, I just feel like after the break time it will change.

As U can C this tier is Very diferente to What I imagine.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

I feel like the top two tiers should go:
1:
2:

 

[Zeth444]

I feel like the top two tiers should go:
1:
2:

I can see at tier 2
Is definetly tier 1
Is tier 1, he doesnt really has a bad metch-up or/and bad stage.

 

[Routa]

I think we could reduce the amount of tiers we have atm. I think 4 tiers or rather 4 different "different type of viability" list (Solo Viable, Strong Counterpick, Counterpick and Almost Solo Viable) would be enough. Solo Viable characters would be characters whose MU spread contains a lot more neutral and good MUs than bad ones (Sheik and Pit(s). Strong Counterpick characters would have overall doable MU spread along with couple MU where they "destroy" their foes (ZSS and Rosa&Luma). Counterpick character is pretty much the same as Strong Counterpick character, but their overall MU spread is weaker (for example ROB and Luigi). Almost Solo Viable characters have mostly MUs are uphill battles but they are still very doable (Mii Swordfighter).

But if we want more classical... "Above all", "White Knights", "Average Joe" and "Git Gud".

I will talk about my opinion about characters within the lists later.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I dont hate it, I just feel like after the break time it will change.

As U can C this tier is Very diferente to What I imagine.

I C where U R coming from, but what kind of tier list did U C

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Don't mind me, I'm just bumping this thread back up

 

[TDK]

I think people are overrating Ryu a bit, but hey, I don't play him, so who am I to talk?

also, when is our break over? We've got a new character and all that now.

 

[aεrgiα]

I think people are overrating Ryu a bit, but hey, I don't play him, so who am I to talk?

also, when is our break over? We've got a new character and all that now.

i believe browny said a few pages back that, since we will be getting 2 new characters(and a patch accompanying them) in feb. it would be better to start a new voting phase only after they are released

 

[Wintermelon43]

This thread is about to go into the secnond page, so quick bump.

Sorry if somebody already asked this, but what changes do you think will happen to the tier list because of this patch?

 

[Deleted member]

This thread is about to go into the secnond page, so quick bump.

Sorry if somebody already asked this, but what changes do you think will happen to the tier list because of this patch?

• and will definitely go higher, and deservedly so.
• might rise a couple places I feel due to Keitaro putting in so much work with him, but this is like everything else in this is just a prediction.
• , , , and will drop.
  
• and will hopefully drop to tier 7.
  
• I could see and going higher up in tier 2.

These are just some shots in the dark, these probably will all be way off when February comes around lol

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

My predictions:

will go to top of tier 5.
and will rise in tier 6.
will go to bottom of tier 4.
will go up, hopefully to tier 1.
and/or will drop to tier 2.
will go to tier 2.
will stay in place due to recent buffs.

and will be low tier 3.
will be mid tier 2.

 

[Zerp]

This thread is about to go into the secnond page, so quick bump.

Sorry if somebody already asked this, but what changes do you think will happen to the tier list because of this patch?

I predict that: and will make up the bottom tier, and will not be Bottom Tier, and will drop to Tier 2, will rise to Tier 1, and that will rise a tier due to how widely known his buffs are.

Spoiler: Crackpot prediction for the next patch

, as Mr. Sakurai's new bias character, will have many strengths along with negligible flaws, and will end up being the next Brawl , he'll also get his own victory theme like Dark Pit and Meta Knight did.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I predict that: and will make up the bottom tier, and will not be Bottom Tier, and will drop to Tier 2, will rise to Tier 1, and that will rise a tier due to how widely known his buffs are.

Spoiler: Crackpot prediction for the next patch

, as Mr. Sakurai's new bias character, will have many strengths along with negligible flaws, and will end up being the next Brawl , he'll also get his own victory theme like Dark Pit and Meta Knight did.

We don't need another Dark Pit/Meta Knight in a franchise

 

[aεrgiα]

This thread is about to go into the secnond page, so quick bump.

Sorry if somebody already asked this, but what changes do you think will happen to the tier list because of this patch?

well based solely on this patch, logically and will rise, maybe will rise due to the buffs he got, although i think his current placing is actually decent now only thanks to the buffs, i feel he shoud have definitely been lower before, and im still not sure whether its still too high for him, since his biggest issues didnt get fixed(dont get me wrong though, i love this patch )

i think and will drop on the tier list because they arent getting any buffs and public opinion has already been declining, and now with the characters around them getting buffed...

i think, despite his buffs will stay in the same place, since people seem to think that it basically did nothing for him(i dont know, its just what im seeing so far).

will drop because people now have as a strong hitting, fast swordsman to bandwagon over instead.
thats about all i can think of for now

Edit: id have no problem with getting his/her own victory theme, but i hope we wont have another brawl mk on our hands, regardless of how fun it was to play as him TT_TT

 

[Wintermelon43]

1:

2:

3: ( )

4:

5:

6:

7: (Spoilers are broken right now)
will be in bottom tier because nobody knows anything about her

gets placed in last

gets placed where is, and Lucina doesn't move

and get placed in the middle of tier 5

gets placed lower (HE SUCKS!!!! WHY IS HE EVEN UP THERE?????)

gets placed in tier 1 cause people overrate him (Pretty much the oppasite of Jigglypuff, and I'm the one that knows nothing about him LOL. Srrsly I hate him so much. I CAN ONLY USE HALF HIS MOVESET, AND THOSE ARE THE CRAPPY MOVES)

will not be bottom two.

will be mid of tier 2 cause Ranai is coming to town

 

[Deleted member]

will be in bottom tier because nobody knows anything about her

gets placed lower (HE SUCKS!!!! WHY IS HE EVEN UP THERE?????)

gets placed in tier 1 cause people overrate him (Pretty much the oppasite of Jigglypuff, and I'm the one that knows nothing about him LOL. Srrsly I hate him so much. I CAN ONLY USE HALF HIS MOVESET, AND THOSE ARE THE CRAPPY MOVES)

That or y'know, Jigglypuff is just a really bad character.

Also Link doesn't suck lmao. He's just very unexplored, it does really suck that he has no notably players or results right now. Hopefully that'll change over the course of SSB4's metagame.

Ryu is that good, by the way. Git gud with a character before you judge them, please.

 

[aεrgiα]

Spoiler

1:

Spoiler

2:

3: ( )

4:

5:

6:

7:

will be in bottom tier because nobody knows anything about her

gets placed in last

gets placed where is, and Lucina doesn't move

and get placed in the middle of tier 5

gets placed lower (HE SUCKS!!!! WHY IS HE EVEN UP THERE?????)

gets placed in tier 1 cause people overrate him (Pretty much the oppasite of Jigglypuff, and I'm the one that knows nothing about him LOL. Srrsly I hate him so much. I CAN ONLY USE HALF HIS MOVESET, AND THOSE ARE THE CRAPPY MOVES)

will not be bottom two.

will be mid of tier 2 cause Ranai is coming to town

i mean i agree that link is too high, but why do u say he sucks? hes pretty decent... and i also hate ryu, but not because i cant use his moves(really they are not that hard, but hey i used to play sf and kof, so i guess im biased) but rather because true shoryu is just so stupidly good, its borderline broken TT_TT

Edit: also, its funny how when i quoted ur post the spoiler actually works, when it doesnt in your original post(for me anyway) :/

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

• and will definitely go higher, and deservedly so.
• might rise a couple places I feel due to Keitaro putting in so much work with him, but this is like everything else in this is just a prediction.
• , , , and will drop.
  
• and will hopefully drop to tier 7.
  
• I could see and going higher up in tier 2.

These are just some shots in the dark, these probably will all be way off when February comes around lol

Nah shulk will stay where he is

 

[Chazual Fridays]

I think it is exceptionally foolish to say any character is bad, since the game is still really underdeveloped in its meta. From what I've seen, it seems like there is a pattern of a chunk seeming to be solid higher-tier picks, then a muddled mess of a middle and low tier. I like the discussing of characters' strengths and weaknesses, and by God I love putting numbers on things, but with something so fluid it's gaseous, specific placements seem less wise than buckets that generally describe viability.

Idk. That's my contribution to a party I showed up 200 pages late to.

Side note: Why Tier 2 Meta Knight? I've not seen anything about his being especially viable, so I'm curious, especially since Meta Knight is unequivocally my worst character.

 

[Deleted member]

Side note: Why Tier 2 Meta Knight? I've not seen anything about his being especially viable, so I'm curious, especially since Meta Knight is unequivocally my worst character.

Meta Knight has a dash attack that is virtually unpunishable on shield. Moreover, he has a kill confirm at extremely low percents as well as one of the greatest punish games in the game. He has great high level results from players such as Ito, Tyrant, Katakiri, Leo, Abadango, Salena, S2H, etc.

 

[Deleted member]

Meta Knight has a dash attack that is virtually unpunishable on shield. Moreover, he has a kill confirm at extremely low percents as well as one of the greatest punish games in the game. He has great high level results from players such as Ito, Tyrant, Katakiri, Leo, Abadango, Salena, S2H, etc.

Not to mention he's one of the few characters in this game to have won a national.

 

[David Viran]

Not to mention he's one of the few characters in this game to have won a national.

Define national.

 

[Deleted member]

Define national.

I mean on a national-level, and it was at Smash Factor 4 (which took place in Mexico). It still doesn't change the fact the character usually places top 15 or 10 at the big leagues.

 

[David Viran]

I mean on a national-level, and it was at Smash Factor 4 (which took place in Mexico). It still doesn't change the fact the character usually places top 15 or 10 at the big leagues.

I have a problem with calling it a national like that because it makes it sound like it had the same amount of top players as tournaments like paragon or CEO. The only established top player there was Mr. R.

 

[Routa]

I will comment Ryu and MK for now.

Atm I don't think Ryu deserves to be in Tier 1. Why? He has 1) very linear recovery and 2) bad disadvantage state (combo food). I am aware of his top lvl punish game, but I don't think it is enough to make up his bad disadvantage state. I think tier 2 is the right place for him (I also now think that also Rosa&Luma and Pikachu should be in tier 2).

MK... Do you guys understand how strong his combo game is? He can kill you with Uairs to Up-B at very early %. He has also extremely strong edgeguard game and safe approach game. I do believe he deserves to be in tier 2 more than Ness.

I will comment about the M2 and Bowser positions later.

 

[Zerp]

I will comment Ryu and MK for now.

Atm I don't think Ryu deserves to be in Tier 1. Why? He has 1) very linear recovery and 2) bad disadvantage state (combo food). I am aware of his top lvl punish game, but I don't think it is enough to make up his bad disadvantage state. I think tier 2 is the right place for him (I also now think that also Rosa&Luma and Pikachu should be in tier 2).

MK... Do you guys understand how strong his combo game is? He can kill you with Uairs to Up-B at very early %. He has also extremely strong edgeguard game and safe approach game. I do believe he deserves to be in tier 2 more than Ness.

I will comment about the M2 and Bowser positions later.

I agree on Ryu not being deserving of tier 1 status, he has too many flaws in my opinion, unfortunately though, I think he will end up tier 1 due to how much he is being "hyped" up and that the general public seems to largely ignore his flaws and focus entirely on his strengths.
(hence why I predicted he'd be tier 1 by next list)

 

[aεrgiα]

I will comment Ryu and MK for now.

Atm I don't think Ryu deserves to be in Tier 1. Why? He has 1) very linear recovery and 2) bad disadvantage state (combo food). I am aware of his top lvl punish game, but I don't think it is enough to make up his bad disadvantage state. I think tier 2 is the right place for him (I also now think that also Rosa&Luma and Pikachu should be in tier 2).

MK... Do you guys understand how strong his combo game is? He can kill you with Uairs to Up-B at very early %. He has also extremely strong edgeguard game and safe approach game. I do believe he deserves to be in tier 2 more than Ness.

I will comment about the M2 and Bowser positions later.

i also agree that ryu isnt tier 1 material, i will just add to that list that, due to his awful aerial acceleration, he can have trouble landing, yes, FA helps a lot in this, but a lot of characters have multihit aerials or anti airs, which can give him a lot of trouble, and it also makes any jump a commitment, since, unlike basically everyone else in the cast, he cant change direction mid jump(bar FA which isnt ideal to do this either, since it temporarily stalls him), which also makes edgeguarding with him worse despite his good aerials

 

[Xandercosm]

I can see why he wouldn't like Tier 2. Ryu is in it when he should be in Tier 1, Mario is above Sonic and Diddy Kong, and Villager and Pikachu somehow aren't in it.

Ryu shouldn't be in tier 1 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Douglas Jay Ganon]

Ryu having trouble landing? He's the character which has the less landing lag combining all of his aerial moves (including specials). Also, has the focus attack, which can cancel and then fast fall to land safely.

ALSO, his fair autocancels, starts 1 frame later than Sheik's fair but deals a whooping 15%, which comboes into itself even sweetspotted. And the sourspot also comboes, because the fair has really small landing lag. His fair also has considerable shieldstun. If spaced well, it's safe.

Btw, his nair has virtually no landing lag. Play defensive, because Ryu has the tools to break someones offense easily due to his aerials attacks.

 

[wedl!!]

...Can you tell me a flaw Ryu has other than disadvantage? Because his disadvantage isn't even that bad. He's a fastfalling heavy but he doesn't really die early. His recovery is good enough and has a lot of options (although Ryu has to choose these options carefully). Focus Attack and all of Ryu's aerials (barring uair sort of but that's because it just isn't worth using often on landing) are great landing options but are commital-based (bad air accel).

Also Ryu's advantageous state completely makes up for his disadvantage (which again, isn't even that bad). It's so ridiculously safe compared to the majority of the cast, alongside being stupidly strong. A character having stuff like spotdodge>frame 2/2/3 utilt/dtilt/jab>dragon punch into a kill at 85% midscreen is insane in this game with few true hitconfirms into death. Consider the fact that Ryu racks up rage hard and that three hits is basically kill percent with his disgusting damage per hit ratio alongside that.

Also consider the fact that Ryu just generally has strong footsies where he can get big damage. While his walkspeed isn't very fast his extremely high acceleration makes it intimidating. Strong things like fadeback Fair or Nair, walking light utilt, strong dtilt spacing, and other safe/semi-safe things just make up a very strong close-combat game. Consider his footsie tools also lead to getting dragon punched in the jaw. Ryu's neutral isn't amazing but the way it interacts with his other tools and its adaptive nature make it strong.

I'm not super informed about Ryu's matchup spread but it's definitely a huge boon. The way his tools interact with the rest of the roster just end up doing that sort of thing. He crushes low tiers and beats/goes even with several good characters. Notably he beats, and , crushes, goes even with and maybe beating both, etc. The only great characters he might lose to are , , , maaaybe and . There's more I'm glossing over but this is just some basic stuff.

With the way Ryu's tools interact I can't really think of a super-noticeable flaw he has. The only real negatives he has is disadvantage state and Hadouken being meh, which, again, are not that large of detractors. Everything he has far more than makes up for those and putting him at top 3 is really not a stretch. While I personally define S tier as around 4 or 5 characters, putting him up there with Sheik+ZSS is really reasonable imo.

I personally am not amazing at Ryu so I'm not the best to ask about this sort of thing, it's just basic stuff. Talk to.... idk Emblem Lord or someone else. He can give a far better description of Ryu's top tier everything than I can (and explain why his disadvantage isn't too bad+matchup exp, something I felt I didn't really do justice. Whatever I got wrong you can smack me in the back of the head for.).

Also I'm gonna predict as a far better Falco-esque character, like top 15 for sure/top 10 likely (meh frame data>bad mobility everyday, just look at Falcon) and as around mid-tierish (will be busted in dubs), but speculating characters that aren't out is kinda not constructive and worthless. All I want is for Bayo to join my other most wanted character Ryu in top tier land ;_;.

 

[Xandercosm]

...Can you tell me a flaw Ryu has other than disadvantage? Because his disadvantage isn't even that bad. He's a fastfalling heavy but he doesn't really die early. His recovery is good enough and has a lot of options (although Ryu has to choose these options carefully). Focus Attack and all of Ryu's aerials (barring uair sort of but that's because it just isn't worth using often on landing) are great landing options but are commital-based (bad air accel).

Also Ryu's advantageous state completely makes up for his disadvantage (which again, isn't even that bad). It's so ridiculously safe compared to the majority of the cast, alongside being stupidly strong. A character having stuff like spotdodge>frame 2/2/3 utilt/dtilt/jab>dragon punch into a kill at 85% midscreen is insane in this game with few true hitconfirms into death. Consider the fact that Ryu racks up rage hard and that three hits is basically kill percent with his disgusting damage per hit ratio alongside that.

Also consider the fact that Ryu just generally has strong footsies where he can get big damage. While his walkspeed isn't very fast his extremely high acceleration makes it intimidating. Strong things like fadeback Fair or Nair, walking light utilt, strong dtilt spacing, and other safe/semi-safe things just make up a very strong close-combat game. Consider his footsie tools also lead to getting dragon punched in the jaw. Ryu's neutral isn't amazing but the way it interacts with his other tools and its adaptive nature make it strong.

I'm not super informed about Ryu's matchup spread but it's definitely a huge boon. The way his tools interact with the rest of the roster just end up doing that sort of thing. He crushes low tiers and beats/goes even with several good characters. Notably he beats, and , crushes, goes even with and maybe beating both, etc. The only great characters he might lose to are , , , maaaybe and . There's more I'm glossing over but this is just some basic stuff.

With the way Ryu's tools interact I can't really think of a super-noticeable flaw he has. The only real negatives he has is disadvantage state and Hadouken being meh, which, again, are not that large of detractors. Everything he has far more than makes up for those and putting him at top 3 is really not a stretch. While I personally define S tier as around 4 or 5 characters, putting him up there with Sheik+ZSS is really reasonable imo.

I personally am not amazing at Ryu so I'm not the best to ask about this sort of thing, it's just basic stuff. Talk to.... idk Emblem Lord or someone else. He can give a far better description of Ryu's top tier everything than I can (and explain why his disadvantage isn't too bad+matchup exp, something I felt I didn't really do justice. Whatever I got wrong you can smack me in the back of the head for.).

Also I'm gonna predict as a far better Falco-esque character, like top 15 for sure/top 10 likely (meh frame data>bad mobility everyday, just look at Falcon) and as around mid-tierish (will be busted in dubs), but speculating characters that aren't out is kinda not constructive and worthless. All I want is for Bayo to join my other most wanted character Ryu in top tier land ;_;.

Never heard that he beats MK. He's such U-air bait.

 

[Douglas Jay Ganon]

Never heard that he beats MK. He's such U-air bait.

Focus. Attack.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I mean..imo I think only ZSS and Sheik are tier 1.

They don't know what disadvantage state is.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

What would take Pikachu out of tier 1? It is a small target, and its below average air mobility is easily resolved by Skull Bash and Quick Attack.

 

[Xandercosm]

Focus. Attack.

Hit. Stun.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Hit. Stun.

Keep. Going.







Like. This.

 

[aεrgiα]

Keep. Going.







Like. This.

Sounds. Fun.





in all seriousness though, i think what could keep pika out of tier 1(if we go by zss and sheik being the only characters in it) is his "inability to kill" something he can struggle with more than sheik can, yes he has edgeguards and hes amazing at it, but those get less reliable against the top tiers(sheik and zss for example). he has no 50/50 like sheik to rely on, and i dont think he has anything to approach thats safe on shield, please correct me if im wrong though, but afaik, fade away fair is safe on shield, sh jump away nair is and sh dair is safe on shield(guess thats kinda an approach option :/ though its slow to come out...) in any case, those options dont compare to sheiks fair and zss bair and nair(and rarely zair), his air speed is also very lacklustre which doesnt help him. and of course, what a lot of people will hold against pika is his results(though i dont agree with it)

 

[Deleted member]

'Ey guys, I want your input. Just a general consensus really.

Where do you all think is right now in the metagame? I've voiced my opinion about her several times, but I wanna hear what you all stand.