Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[tsvlink25]

I really enjoyed Bayonetta's inclusion. I feel a bit weird about Corrin though. I don't mind at all that he's a FE character. I just feel the timing was a bit weird since Fates isn't even released outside Japan. He does looks really unique and fun to play, so I'll watch his trailer once again tomorrow when my mind isn't entirely focused on that and that way I get to enjoy his inclusion even more

I think for it's a mix of cross-promotion (since he probably comes out around when the game does internationally) and popularity from Japan.

 

[Arcadenik]

I will say.

It's a good thing I bought and enjoyed Bayonetta and Bayonetta 2 when I did.

I think me loving those games helped my lack of salt.

I probably would have been salty otherwise.

Bayonetta getting in Smash... might be the push I needed to finally go get Bayonetta 2...

 

[Shroob]

Seriously, a TRAVESTY that we probably won't get this in Smash.

 

[MainJPW]

Wow, I've just heard that my friend just came up with a conspiracy theory for why Wolf could still be in the game as DLC lol XD

I don't even know anymore...

Well...what is it?

 

[Burb]

People really shouldn't be shocked that Inklings didn't make it.

They wouldn't just add a trophy as DLC. If they were planned, they would've saved the trophy for the fighter.

I think part of the problem is that people likened it to Mewtwo and Lucas having in-game trophies, but those were present before DLC development started.

Plus RogersBase was utter bull, and that was obvious, too.

Wow, I've just heard that my friend just came up with a conspiracy theory for why Wolf could still be in the game as DLC lol XD

I don't even know anymore...

Well, that started sooner than I had imagined.

 

[powerprotoman]

Seriously, a TRAVESTY that we probably won't get this in Smash.

the bigger travesty? the lack of moon river

 

[AreJay25]

Lol, watching Corrin's trailer again, his dash attack is basically Psycho Crusher

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Well...what is it?

Cause Sakurai said in the direct that Bayo was the last "new challenger" for Super Smash Bros for Wii U, not DLC character in general.

And I'm sitting there like: "K".

 

[Arcadenik]

People really shouldn't be shocked that Inklings didn't make it.

They wouldn't just add a trophy as DLC. If they were planned, they would've saved the trophy for the fighter.

I think part of the problem is that people likened it to Mewtwo and Lucas having in-game trophies, but those were present before DLC development started.

Plus RogersBase was utter bull, and that was obvious, too.



Well, that started sooner than I had imagined.

Agreed on Inklings.

I also was not shocked that K. Rool is not in the game... the Mii costume was pretty much a big clue that he is not getting in but some people just couldn't take the hint. Sad that it had to be spelled out, figuratively speaking, for them to finally let it sink in.

 

[Burb]

Cause Sakurai said in the direct that Bayo was the last "new challenger" for Super Smash Bros for Wii U, not DLC character in general.

And I'm sitting there like: "K".

......Did you mention that, at the end, he listed off the total number of playable characters in the game?

Agreed on Inklings.

I also was not shocked that K. Rool is not in the game... the Mii costume was pretty much a big clue that he is not getting in but some people just couldn't take the hint. Sad that it had to be spelled out, figuratively speaking, for them to finally let it sink in.

Yeah, the same goes for K. Rool, and any other Mii Fighter DLC costume outside the ones that were of main roster characters.

....And any Assist Trophies, Bosses, and Final Smash characters. Those were especially iffy.

 

[Shroob]

Honestly, as it is set up right now, the 3DS' extra character screen can fit Corrin and Bayo when they shrink the current icons slightly, but that's about it.

 

[MainJPW]

Cause Sakurai said in the direct that Bayo was the last "new challenger" for Super Smash Bros for Wii U, not DLC character in general.

And I'm sitting there like: "K".

Someone here already mentioned the same thing.

 

[Solfiner]

Smash only needs some Sawano music to be the most Japanese thing and also the sickest thing ever.


HINT HINT NUDGE NUDGE DO IT SAKURAI

And no, I do not believe that we are getting more for the record.

 

[Shroob]

It just hit me how ugly the 3DS' Stage Select Screen is going to look when Umbra Clock comes in.

As is it looks like so

xxxx
xxxo

X's being stages and o being random.

If they don't tweak random, it'll look like so:

xxxx
xxxx
o

 

[Burb]

I really hope this "THEY SAID BAYONETTA WAS THE LAST NEW CHALLENGER, NOT THE LAST CHARACTER!" nonsense doesn't become a thing.

I don't know how the ending of that stream could possibly feel any more final. They listed the totals for all the content in the game.

 

[Shroob]

I really hope this "THEY SAID BAYONETTA WAS THE LAST NEW CHALLENGER, NOT THE LAST CHARACTER!" nonsense doesn't become a thing.

I don't know how the ending of that stream could possibly feel any more final. They listed the totals for all the content in the game.

If you want to shove a confirmation on them, just show them the DLC screen. After Bayo and Corrin, it is literally impossible for a single character addition. On the 3ds at least.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

......Did you mention that, at the end, he listed off the total number of playable characters in the game?

Yeah I did, but he is still clinging onto his theory like super glue ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Chrono.]

I really hope this "THEY SAID BAYONETTA WAS THE LAST NEW CHALLENGER, NOT THE LAST CHARACTER!" nonsense doesn't become a thing.

I don't know how the ending of that stream could possibly feel any more final. They listed the totals for all the content in the game.

Funny how GameXplain pointed out that people twisting that particular line was inevitable.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I really hope this "THEY SAID BAYONETTA WAS THE LAST NEW CHALLENGER, NOT THE LAST CHARACTER!" nonsense doesn't become a thing.

I don't know how the ending of that stream could possibly feel any more final. They listed the totals for all the content in the game.

Sadly, it's a thing. However, this already proves that's "nope". Sakurai is pretty clear here.

And I agree that having any of those characters as DLC that had roles/costumes was always iffy. I'm not surprised at the outcome overall, although I wasn't expecting either DLC character. They are going to be fun, though~

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

"The Fighter Ballot was a mistake"

 

[Burb]

If you want to shove a confirmation on them, just show them the DLC screen. After Bayo and Corrin, it is literally impossible for a single character addition. On the 3ds at least.

......Were you in the Leaks group? Specifically, around the last few weeks before the 3DS version originally came out in Japan?

Because nobody accepts the CSS as proof of anything. Even after the CSS from the demo and the ESRB leak first surfaced and the pattern the characters were arranged with was discovered, nobody would listen to any of us that pointed out that certain characters wouldn't fit in with the way it was ordered (namely, Ridley).

 

[pupNapoleon]

Guys. I have an announcement.

I made some Turkey and Rice soup.
Heavily seasoned thanks to my salt, I now feel at homeostasis.

These results were ludicrous, and I loved it all.
I also now realize, Melee really is the best game. Mechanics are all that matter, and Sakurai doesn't need the Nintendo IPs to sell the game now in the way that he did when it first launched with 64 to assure its success.

I eagerly do await and hope for some fun mods for characters, and that is just as fine for me as an official character.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

My guess on who the characters that were highly requested but weren't realizable are Snake and Banjo-Kazooie.

Spoiler

Maybe Goku too.

 

[Burb]

My guess on who the characters that were highly requested but weren't realizable are Snake and Banjo-Kazooie.

Goku.

 

[Shroob]

......Were you in the Leaks group? Specifically, around the last few weeks before the 3DS version originally came out in Japan?

Because nobody accepts the CSS as proof of anything. Even after the CSS from the demo and the ESRB leak first surfaced and the pattern the characters were arranged with was discovered, nobody would listen to any of us that pointed out that certain characters wouldn't fit in with the way it was ordered (namely, Ridley).

Oh I remember that, and I was very much in the camp that who we got from the ESRB leak was it, but I was also pretty confident that the empty space wouldn't go to waste.

There's like, no empty space on the 3DS' dlc menu.

 

[Naoshi]

Honestly, I'm just glad that those popular characters at least got in in some shape or form. DLC wasn't gonna last forever and they don't have a limitless time working on it. DLC works on a budget too, and a tighter one at that. Sakurai and co give it their all, and I hope people realize that. Developing content ain't easy, there's a ****load of dedication required. It'd been impossible to have everyone fulfilled. Some were gonna be a Mii costume and I think that's the next best thing for them. Hey, maybe next Smash some of them will be upgraded to actual playable characters? Inkling is definitely a contender.

Kinda sad some people won't let it go and think there's going to be more DLC :/

 

[pupNapoleon]

Because nobody accepts the CSS as proof of anything. Even after the CSS from the demo and the ESRB leak first surfaced and the pattern the characters were arranged with was discovered, nobody would listen to any of us that pointed out that certain characters wouldn't fit in with the way it was ordered (namely, Ridley).

The CSS is absolutely proof, early on, that Sakurai's judgment is occasionally impaired. It just isnt an aesthetic beauty and doesnt feel sleek nor clean, to paraphrase the thought I believe he once said.

 

[Burb]

Hey, maybe next Smash some of them will be upgraded to actual playable characters? Inkling is definitely a contender.

Inkling is basically going to be the Little Mac of SSB5.

 

[Arcadenik]

......Did you mention that, at the end, he listed off the total number of playable characters in the game?

58 characters... man, I freaking love SSB4's roster... there are so many unique newcomers and new franchise representation!! There are so many fan favorites, newcomer and veteran alike!!

Nintendo franchises:
Mario series:
Pokemon series:
Fire Emblem series:
Third Party franchises:
Zelda series:
Kirby series:
Kid Icarus series:
Mii Fighters:
Donkey Kong series:
Metroid series:
Star Fox series:
EarthBound series:

 

[Das Koopa]

I'd like to do a post in reaction to the people saying "there's no way Bayonetta got more votes than X". Let's do a rundown. Before that, though, note the "Realizable" part: That immediately knocks off 4th parties. For all the memes, I don't doubt that Goku probably did get a lot of votes and I don't doubt he was a potential Top 5 contender in America.

-Inklings

Somebody mentioned this in the SourceGaming post-discussion to the Direct, but it's very plausible that Inklings may have been too much a feat to handle due to how an Ink mechanic may work. Remember: It's not just that one character works. Eight have to work at once on the Wii U version and 4 have to work on the Wii U version at once. I'm not familiar with the coding Smash uses, but it's very possible a bunch of Inklings spamming Ink could cause framerate drops, which may be why the team decided not to pursue it.

This could be as a result of both the Wii U and 3DS, much the same with Ice Climbers. I think we can expect to see Inklings in Smash 5 considering Splatoon's success and the less strenuous time windows, but for now, I get why they aren't realizable. I do assume they received more votes in the U.S. than Bayonetta, but there's probably a good explanation as to why they didn't make it.

-Wolf

The ballot naturally would've been front-loaded, and one serious hindrance to Wolf's chances are that everybody thought he was a shoo-in when Lucas was announced and even more so when Roy was uncovered. This most likely encouraged people to use their votes for newcomers. Not to mention, a lot of people may have simply wanted a newcomer over Wolf. Wolf has some fair amount of stigma attached to him due to his thematic similarities to Fox and Falco.

-Snake

We know that Kojima is why Snake was in. Any chances he had of coming back were effectively destroyed once the conflict between Kojima and Konami came up. I'm of the opinion he was always a favor/one time deal character that wasn't going to take priority in future installments. Again, Snake may have received more votes, but he wasn't realizable. RIP, Snake.

-Isaac

Golden Sun seems to be a dead franchise. Their last game was in 2010. Bayonetta 1 came out in late 09/early '10, and now Bayonetta has a relationship with Nintendo and seems to have moved in and around 1m units on the Wii U. That's more than Golden Sun, and the first Bayonetta has its fair share of fans who probably played Nintendo games too.

It's no stretch to say that Isaac fans are a vocal/dedicated minority while a bunch of people who aren't in touch with the speculation community voted Bayonetta. Isaac's ceiling of votes exists within forums for the most part, Bayonetta's doesn't, and it's worth reminding people that Bayonetta does well on online polls. She wasn't unknown.

-King K. Rool

In an even worse position than Isaac simply because he hasn't been game-relevant in over a decade. I wanted him really badly, but I think he's relegated to nothing until Retro decides to bring him back for DKCR3. I hope they do, because K. Rool's chances will skyrocket. I considered Dixie more likely, yeeeet...

-Dixie Kong

Probably didn't receive many votes because most DKC fans voted for K. Rool, resulting in a lower turnout for Dixie. This is noticeable in that reddit poll I often reference. When you consider that this was a popularity contest within reason, Dixie probably just failed to accumulate a necessary amount of votes.

-Ridley

The hype train on Ridley had died once he wasn't in the base game. Online polls seem to reflect this.

-Third Parties

Licensing issues. I know Spencer said he'd be happy to work with Nintendo with Banjo-Kazooie, but I imagine it's a lil' more complicated than "President of Xbox says yes so it can happen". Also, like Isaac above, Banjo-Kazooie probably have an online-fandom ceiling that doesn't reach very far into the modern Nintendo fandom.

Realistically, Bayonetta probably did receive the majority of votes. Her games don't sell badly, she has a fanbase, and just because speculation wrote her off due to her sexuality doesn't mean that votes weren't cast for her. This is a sort of bubble, and people exist outside of it.

I'm gonna just agree with the Cloud=US Bayonetta=Europe Corrin=Japan dynamic. Even if Fates isn't a top seller, he'll probably be pretty popular in Japanland.

I'm not trying to disparage fandoms, btw, I'm just providing reasons as to why a lot of characters might not've gotten in.

 

[Shroob]

Has anyone considered the possibility that one of the reasons that Inkling wouldn't have gotten in while the Mii Costume exists, is because in a fight, the Inkling Mii and Inkling would be near identical and hard to tell apart?

I mean, when you see a Mii wearing say, the Samus outfit, you can still tell it's a Mii, but Miis are about the same size that I figure Inklings would be, and the Mii Inkling Costume looks soo damn close to an actual Inkling that we had several 'leaks' trying to pass them off as legit Inklings...

Just a random thought.

 

[Chrono.]

Holy ****

Its_happening.gif

 

[Burb]

The CSS is absolutely proof, early on, that Sakurai's judgment is occasionally impaired. It just isnt an aesthetic beauty and doesnt feel sleek nor clean, to paraphrase the thought I believe he once said.

Believe me, I know. The biggest issue was that people seemed certain that the whole thing would be shuffled around (Especially the little "clone row"), or that the ESRB CSS wasn't final and would be different in the final version.

Plus the pattern the characters were ordered in was a bit weird and took a while to crack.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Holy ****

Its_happening.gif

I could tell what this was just from the titles

Here is to hoping he gets free reign and isn't shackled to another monster

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Has anyone considered the possibility that one of the reasons that Inkling wouldn't have gotten in while the Mii Costume exists, is because in a fight, the Inkling Mii and Inkling would be near identical and hard to tell apart?

I mean, when you see a Mii wearing say, the Samus outfit, you can still tell it's a Mii, but Miis are about the same size that I figure Inklings would be, and the Mii Inkling Costume looks soo damn close to an actual Inkling that we had several 'leaks' trying to pass them off as legit Inklings...

Just a random thought.

Yep. That's a reason I thought they may not make it. The new article convinced me that relevancy was severely important, which changed my mind on them. Of course, I was wrong, but I got a lot of things right anyway. I knew we'd get a minimum of one more 3rd party and one more 1st/2nd party. Geno costume. Tails and Knuckles costumes(and nothing more). Chocobo showing up in some form(He's one of my ideal Smash choices, same with Slime). If we get another Sega owned character, it will not be a Sonic character.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Honestly, I'm just glad that those popular characters at least got in in some shape or form. DLC wasn't gonna last forever and they don't have a limitless time working on it. DLC works on a budget too, and a tighter one at that. Sakurai and co give it their all, and I hope people realize that. Developing content ain't easy, there's a ****load of dedication required. It'd been impossible to have everyone fulfilled. Some were gonna be a Mii costume and I think that's the next best thing for them. Hey, maybe next Smash some of them will be upgraded to actual playable characters? Inkling is definitely a contender.

Kinda sad some people won't let it go and think there's going to be more DLC :/

One- its great to have gratitude in life. That said, saying we should be honored that the team stayed together... is illogical. It earns them money, and it is their job.

Two- People think there is more DLC because Nintendo, and Sakurai, is all about surprises. When we are continually told "Whatever you expect, its not that," then you cannot blame the audience for continuing that logic wherever applicable, as we have been conditioned to react that way. Maybe sometimes Nintendo should just be blunt and blunt about it, hell, they are sometimes just blunt- but they are often enough attempting to be crafty, and that makes many of their statements suspicious.

 

[Shroob]

One- its great to have gratitude in life. That said, saying we should be honored that the team stayed together... is illogical. It earns them money, and it is their job.

Two- People think there is more DLC because Nintendo, and Sakurai, is all about surprises. When we are continually told "Whatever you expect, its not that," then you cannot blame the audience for continuing that logic wherever applicable, as we have been conditioned to react that way. Maybe sometimes Nintendo should just be blunt and blunt about it, hell, they are sometimes just blunt- but they are often enough attempting to be crafty, and that makes many of their statements suspicious.

The end of the direct was pretty blunt when they tallied up everything.

 

[Deleted member]

The end of the direct was pretty blunt when they tallied up everything.

To the point where Sakurai flat out said that anyone who believes there's going to be more is a fool...

 

[Burb]

I'm gonna just agree with the Cloud=US Bayonetta=Europe Corrin=Japan dynamic..

Big problem with that theory:

Corrin was never labeled as a ballot character. Nor was he even called a popular pick like Cloud. Bayo was flat out called the winner of the ballot.

I don't think Corrin was a ballot pick. He was picked by Sakurai and company.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

around 1m units on the Wii U. That's more than Golden Sun

Not true.

Golden Sun has sold around 1.8 million and Golden Sun: The Lost Age has sold around 1.2 million.

Even Dark Dawn has sold around 800,000 sales.

Bayonetta 2 has around .9 million.

Golden Sun: Dark Dawn's bombing was around the same as Bayonetta 2's success.

Golden Sun has a much more successful history if we're talking about pure sales.

Regardless, Bayonetta in Smash will likely mean a third game and continued presence.

Moreover, Isaac's pitfall was probably lack of interest in Japan and the growing number of stylistically similar characters, plus Golden Sun not having a game for a while. It wasn't this Golden Sun was more niche stuff. Bayonetta just had a lucky combination of popularity, timing and uniqueness.