Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[CatRaccoonBL]

PushDustIn
Ok, so here's my problem with the idea that it is about business. If thats the case it is bad business. We have seen before that trying to appeal to these people is a bad idea.

There was a game called Sunset. It was called incredibly progressive and all sorts of media sites and people were praising it as an amazing game that they couldn't wait for.

And you know what? It flopped horribly. Why? Because as it turns out, many of the people who were praising it for being progressive, only cared that it existed. They did not concern themselves about the actual gameplay. The actual gameplay, was boring.

So what does this mean? It means these people who would be upset about things like Tomahawk class or the boob slider, probably would've still either bought the game, or weren't even interested before.

Now you may be asking yourself, "wouldn't this be the same as the people saying they are abandoning the game because of "censorship?""

Well thats just it, they started at a base of being hyped for the game, and then they aren't so much where it was the opposite for the other side.

Now of course, this isn't black or white. We can't just assume this is how all people will act. But looking at past experiences and events, I feel this "localization," is on the worst end of the business spectrum.

Following that, just because it can be called localization, that doesn't mean it makes it that much better. Localizations can be bad as well. I don't care what kind of culture America is, I don't approve of changing things just to maybe make people more comfortable. It is especially bad when there is only one english localization, usually based off America. Other countries aren't as uptight about the kinds of things we usually here from American sources. Why do they have to suffer as well?

I just, don't see any net positives from these localization changes.

 

[Champ Gold]

Hate to break it to you pal, but Tetris was already in the running, and lost to the very game Undertale is beating right now.

And that my friend is called nostalgia bias



Or **** taste either way

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Hey PushDustIn , someone posted your article to /r/KotakuInAction and now you might have haters following you now lol XD

They're saying stuff like, "PushDustin deserves an F" and "The first guy is literally pulling definitions out of his ass".

 

[Khoru]

Hey PushDustIn , someone posted your article to /r/KotakuInAction and now you might have haters following you now lol XD

They're saying stuff like, "PushDustin deserves an F" and "The first guy is literally pulling definitions out of his ***".

i mean it's kia, what do you expect

 

[ChikoLad]

I don't approve of changing things just to maybe make people more comfortable.

That's not what localisation typically is about, though.

Localisation is just typically about making sure the game abides both by cultural laws/sensitivities (e.g. removing Swastikas and other Nazi symbolism in most German localisations), or altering the product in a way so it can actually be appreciated by a new demographic.

Kid Icarus: Uprising is a perfect example of the latter. You know how everyone praises the game for it's great and witty writing, even here in the West?

They wouldn't be doing that without the localisation. The original Japanese script has a lot of jokes and references that only those well versed in Japanese culture would pick up on. So they changed it and gave it more American humour, and all of those fourth wall breakers and Nintendo references, for the Western release. If they kept the script the same, not nearly as many people would have thought the game was that funny.

This is what I mean by "converting the message into a different format". It's still the same overall game and story, all of the main details are kept. But all of those random jokes and banter that fill up the game needed to be tailoured to the different audience so they would actually appreciate it.

 

[PushDustIn]

Hey PushDustIn , someone posted your article to /r/KotakuInAction and now you might have haters following you now lol XD

They're saying stuff like, "PushDustin deserves an F" and "The first guy is literally pulling definitions out of his ***".

Already replied to some of them . I'm Kooloo_Limpah. I like that guy saying that I pulled the definition out of my ass, because I just posted the actual definition to that thread. My undergrad major was political science...I think I know what censorship is.

PushDustIn
Ok, so here's my problem with the idea that it is about business. If thats the case it is bad business. We have seen before that trying to appeal to these people is a bad idea.

There was a game called Sunset. It was called incredibly progressive and all sorts of media sites and people were praising it as an amazing game that they couldn't wait for.

And you know what? It flopped horribly. Why? Because as it turns out, many of the people who were praising it for being progressive, only cared that it existed. They did not concern themselves about the actual gameplay. The actual gameplay, was boring.

So what does this mean? It means these people who would be upset about things like Tomahawk class or the boob slider, probably would've still either bought the game, or weren't even interested before.

Now you may be asking yourself, "wouldn't this be the same as the people saying they are abandoning the game because of "censorship?""

Well thats just it, they started at a base of being hyped for the game, and then they aren't so much where it was the opposite for the other side.

Now of course, this isn't black or white. We can't just assume this is how all people will act. But looking at past experiences and events, I feel this "localization," is on the worst end of the business spectrum.

Following that, just because it can be called localization, that doesn't mean it makes it that much better. Localizations can be bad as well. I don't care what kind of culture America is, I don't approve of changing things just to maybe make people more comfortable. It is especially bad when there is only one english localization, usually based off America. Other countries aren't as uptight about the kinds of things we usually here from American sources. Why do they have to suffer as well?

I just, don't see any net positives from these localization changes.

It's not bad business if it pleases the most amount of people. Sunset is a terrible example, as it's not an example of localization. The issue we are talking about is, "Is Localization Censorship?". In my opinion it isn't, as it's a choice made by the company. If the company was legally required to change content, then yes that's censorship. Changing content for a lower rating is NOT censorship. Nintendo had a choice with Tharja's booty-- they could have taken the higher rating but they didn't.

 

[Champ Gold]

You know you made when you got haters and people, who think they know everything, trying tell you that you don't know jack.

Congratulations, PushDustIn you made it to the big time. Don't forget us little people

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

That's not what localisation typically is about, though.

Localisation is just typically about making sure the game abides both by cultural laws/sensitivities (e.g. removing Swastikas and other Nazi symbolism in most German localisations), or altering the product in a way so it can actually be appreciated by a new demographic.

Kid Icarus: Uprising is a perfect example of the latter. You know how everyone praises the game for it's great and witty writing, even here in the West?

They wouldn't be doing that without the localization. The original Japanese script has a lot of jokes and references that only those well versed in Japanese culture would pick up on. So they changed it and gave it more American humour, and all of those fourth wall breakers and Nintendo references, for the Western release. If they kept the script the same, not nearly as many people would have thought the game was that funny.

This is what I mean by "converting the message into a different format". It's still the same overall game and story, all of the main details are kept. But all of those random jokes and banter that fill up the game needed to be tailoured to the different audience so they would actually appreciate it.

I wasn't saying that all localization was bad. I'll agree, sometimes things can get a better localization like Splatoon.

It's not bad business if it pleases the most amount of people. Sunset is a terrible example, as it's not an example of localization. The issue we are talking about is, "Is Localization Censorship?". In my opinion it isn't, as it's a choice made by the company. If the company was legally required to change content, then yes that's censorship. Changing content for a lower rating is NOT censorship. Nintendo had a choice with Tharja's booty-- they could have taken the higher rating but they didn't.

Except it's bad business when you don't make money. I'm pretty a large chunk of people who watch anime online away from things like crunchyroll are quite please themselves.

Here's the thing. I find the discussion on what are there names to be fruitless. Sure, it is interesting, but it doesn't get to the problem, which is "is it bad or not?" Like I said, just because it is called localization doesn't mean the companies did any less wrong I feel.

Also, I have no idea what you are going on about with lower ratings. I don't recall mentioning it I mean, in those circumstances sure, I can understand changing the rating. That is a good business decision. But then we have things like Xenoblade X where I doubt the boob slider would have shot up the rating.

I think we are having two different debates here.

 

[Burb]

Undertale is a fantastic game, and it deserves the popularity it has. It's far and beyond one of the best games of the year, and it's one of the best indy games I've ever played.


That said, the fandom is slowly starting to turn obnoxious, which is really sad. I'm hoping it doesn't wind up as bad as Steven Universe's, but that's the direction it seems to be heading towards.

 

[Con0rrrr]

yeah there's really
no reason for it to be in finals to begin with

The same could easily be said for Undertale.

Fad culture is ridiculous. And it just irks me that people will take this seriously. If it beats Melee Imma be pissed.

Like, a game that's at it's peak 14 years later and has some of the deepest mechanics of all time losing to a recently released indie game with just some hype around it.

At least with Pokemon R/B, that can represent the Pokemon franchise as a whole. Now think about that.

The Pokemon Franchise. Less important than Undertale.

 

[Senselessbreak]

The fact that Undertale was at 38% a few hours ago, screams cheating beyond belief. I loved Undertale, but Pokemon RBY are some of the most influential games of all time. Jesus Christ people jumping aboard fads are stupid.

The same goes for Final Fantasy 7 and OOT. These games are always the top on this poll and deserve to be. If Undertale wins because of Tumblr shilling votes all across the internet and cheating, then theres just something really wrong with gamers today.

 

[Con0rrrr]

Undertale is a fantastic game, and it deserves the popularity it has. It's far and beyond one of the best games of the year, and it's one of the best indy games I've ever played.


That said, the fandom is slowly starting to turn obnoxious, which is really sad. I'm hoping it doesn't wind up as bad as Steven Universe's, but that's the direction it seems to be heading towards.

This I agree with.

Undertale is great. Although in my opinion a tad overrated.

But yes, Steven Universe fanbase is a perfect way to describe it.

 

[Bedoop]

Today I was messing around as Purin in For Fun FFAs and the funniest thing happened
There was another Purin, a Bowser and a Captain Falcon on Hyrule Castle
The Purin rests both Me and Bowser, Bowser goes to Bowser Slam me, I Rest Bowser at the same time as him hitting me causing us two to die, Captain Falcon RFP's Purin, Purin dies, and then a Tornado spawns and kills Captain Falcon as he's taunting.
EVERYONE DIES.

 

[Khoru]

The fact that Undertale was at 38% a few hours ago, screams cheating beyond belief. I loved Undertale, but Pokemon RBY are some of the most influential games of all time. Jesus Christ people jumping aboard fads are stupid.

The same goes for Final Fantasy 7 and OOT. These games are always the top on this poll and deserve to be. If Undertale wins because of Tumblr shilling votes all across the internet and cheating, then theres just something really wrong with gamers today.

that's... not what "shilling" is
nor does that count as cheating

 

[Das Koopa]

CSGO added revolvers. Time to play that for 8 hours.

 

[PushDustIn]

I wasn't saying that all localization was bad. I'll agree, sometimes things can get a better localization like Splatoon.


Except it's bad business when you don't make money. I'm pretty a large chunk of people who watch anime online away from things like crunchyroll are quite please themselves.

Here's the thing. I find the discussion on what are there names to be fruitless. Sure, it is interesting, but it doesn't get to the problem, which is "is it bad or not?" Like I said, just because it is called localization doesn't mean the companies did any less wrong I feel.

Also, I have no idea what you are going on about with lower ratings. I don't recall mentioning it I mean, in those circumstances sure, I can understand changing the rating. That is a good business decision. But then we have things like Xenoblade X where I doubt the boob slider would have shot up the rating.

I think we are having two different debates here.

"It's bad business when they dont make money"?? I'm pretty sure most of these games are selling pretty well, even if people online are crying "censorship". Wait: you are right....removing the racial undertones of Animal Crossing: New Leaf was a bad business decision, and it cost them a million sales. Oh wait....

I've been arguing that all localization is not censorship as it's not forced changes by an external organization and most of the time allows for a wider demographic to enjoy the game without unneeded controversy. If I'm not mistaken, your argument is that changes are bad/ are not needed as it doesn't actually widen the demographic of the people who buy it.

 

[A Distant Demon]

People are taking a Gamefaqs poll too seriously >_>

 

[Shroob]

This I agree with.

Undertale is great. Although in my opinion a tad overrated.

But yes, Steven Universe fanbase is a perfect way to describe it.

It won't be long until it sinks to the depraved levels of the FNaF fanbase.

 

[Roaring Salsa]

Give it a year until the next GameFAQ's poll, and I'm sure Undertale will not even get past Round 1

 

[Burb]

The fact that Undertale was at 38% a few hours ago, screams cheating beyond belief. I loved Undertale, but Pokemon RBY are some of the most influential games of all time. Jesus Christ people jumping aboard fads are stupid.

The same goes for Final Fantasy 7 and OOT. These games are always the top on this poll and deserve to be. If Undertale wins because of Tumblr shilling votes all across the internet and cheating, then theres just something really wrong with gamers today.

That's how every match in the tourney went for Undertale, actually. Started off at around 30-60% in the other game's favor, and steadily tipped the other way by the end of the day.

It's not cheating, it's a rally. The GameFAQs userbase is voting against Undertale, but the people coming in from Reddit and Tumblr far outnumber them and it wins out in the end thanks to their support.

The same could easily be said for Undertale.

Fad culture is ridiculous. And it just irks me that people will take this seriously. If it beats Melee Imma be pissed.

Like, a game that's at it's peak 14 years later and has some of the deepest mechanics of all time losing to a recently released indie game with just some hype around it.

At least with Pokemon R/B, that can represent the Pokemon franchise as a whole. Now think about that.

The Pokemon Franchise. Less important than Undertale.

I think you're being a bit over-dramatic.

It's "best game ever" in title, but in actuality, it's a popularity contest.

Regardless of how iconic Pokemon is (or the other games Undertale beat; don't forget that it bested Super Mario World in the previous round), Undertale is what's hot. Most people who are fans of both are probably voting Undertale because it's what they're into right now.

 

[Chrono.]

It was actually 4chan that skewed the votes towards UT.

Apparently they found it hilarious that Faqs are salty and voted against Pokemon for de lulz.

This is why these silly online polls don't mean anything.

Best Game Ever doesn't mean anything and neither did those Smash Ballot polls you saw everywhere. Online polls are a circlejerk

 

[Neo Zero]

People care about these GameFAQS polls still? If anything, I laughed that we even had an article here telling people to vote in it lol.

 

[OurBraveHero]

I can't... I can't believe Minecraft Wii U doesn't use the gamepad for inventory.

What the hell is even the point then?

 

[Burb]

It was actually 4chan that skewed the votes towards UT.

Apparently they found it hilarious that Faqs are salty and voted against Pokemon for de lulz.

This is why these silly online polls don't mean anything.

Best Game Ever doesn't mean anything and neither did those Smash Ballot polls you saw everywhere. Online polls are a circlejerk

Uhhh.....this has been going on for weeks now.

Even if 4chan is involved now, the rally originated from Reddit and Tumblr.

People care about these GameFAQS polls still? If anything, I laughed that we even had an article here telling people to vote in it lol.

One of the Wayforward goons marking out for themselves was front page news here.

It's not like standards were super high before now or anything.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Pokemon being the most influential doesn't mean I have to pick PKMN over Undertale.
IMO, Undertale is a much better game due to overall quality.

 

[Soul.]

In a year people will still praise Undertale as if it did something revolutionary when it's just the story and characters that are good; the gameplay is something else? Like, bullet hell isn't iconic by any means.

 

[Senselessbreak]

that's... not what "shilling" is
nor does that count as cheating

When a vote jumps 25% in a few hours, how does that not scream cheating?! Gamefaqs does not require an account to vote, all it requires is a unique IP, which is extremely easy to rotate with fake IPs.

And besides, Tumblr users are going in full force "shilling" the game for votes. They are giving the game the impression that it is better than it is and that it is in the desperate need of votes, in order to receive votes from users unfamiliar with the game. Shilling alone is considered cheating in most definitions. Undertale is a good game, but it will never beat Super Mario World and Pokemon in terms of what its done for the industry. If Tumblr continues to do so, it will beat out other deserving games like Mario 64, MGS, and OOT as best games of all time. Seriously? Undertale isn't as good as Mother 3, which it took a lot of influence from, and even Mother 3 is nowhere to be seen.... Very sad that internet polls can't be legitimate anymore.

 

[Khoru]

In a year people will still praise Undertale as if it did something revolutionary when it's just the story and characters that are good; the gameplay is something else? Like, bullet hell isn't iconic by any means.

when's the touhou mother reimagining with undertale battles

When a vote jumps 25% in a few hours, how does that not scream cheating?! Gamefaqs does not require an account to vote, all it requires is a unique IP, which is extremely easy to rotate with fake IPs.

And besides, Tumblr users are going in full force "shilling" the game for votes. They are giving the game the impression that it is better than it is and that it is in the desperate need of votes, in order to receive votes from users unfamiliar with the game. Shilling alone is considered cheating in most definitions. Undertale is a good game, but it will never beat Super Mario World and Pokemon in terms of what its done for the industry. If Tumblr continues to do so, it will beat out other deserving games like Mario 64, MGS, and OOT as best games of all time. Seriously? Undertale isn't as good as Mother 3, which it took a lot of influence from, and even Mother 3 is nowhere to be seen.... Very sad that internet polls can't be legitimate anymore.

>scapegoats

 

[A Distant Demon]

Very sad that internet polls can't be legitimate anymore.

And this is where the problem lies. It's an internet poll.

None of this matters. None of it did matter and never will. Being legitimate doesn't matter. It's a fan poll. All I can say is. . .

Spoiler

 

[Burb]

When a vote jumps 25% in a few hours, how does that not scream cheating?! Gamefaqs does not require an account to vote, all it requires is a unique IP, which is extremely easy to rotate with fake IPs.

And besides, Tumblr users are going in full force "shilling" the game for votes. They are giving the game the impression that it is better than it is and that it is in the desperate need of votes, in order to receive votes from users unfamiliar with the game. Shilling alone is considered cheating in most definitions. Undertale is a good game, but it will never beat Super Mario World and Pokemon in terms of what its done for the industry. If Tumblr continues to do so, it will beat out other deserving games like Mario 64, MGS, and OOT as best games of all time. Seriously? Undertale isn't as good as Mother 3, which it took a lot of influence from, and even Mother 3 is nowhere to be seen.... Very sad that internet polls can't be legitimate anymore.

You're taking this waaaaaaaaay too seriously.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I can't... I can't believe Minecraft Wii U doesn't use the gamepad for inventory.

What the hell is even the point then?

In the immortal words of Shofu: "YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS!"

 

[Bedoop]

Watch us get Melee VS Smash 4 as the finale of BGE
It won't happen but still

 

[Chrono.]

I can't... I can't believe Minecraft Wii U doesn't use the gamepad for inventory.

What the hell is even the point then?

Oh wow you're right http://gonintendo.com/stories/24839...tion-won-t-use-the-gamepad-screen-for-item-ma

So it's more expensive than the other versions (bc it's packaged with dlc I know) + no exclusive stuff? I don't see this version doing too well (not that I did before)

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Watch us get Melee VS Smash 4 as the finale of BGE
It won't happen but still

Lol if only.

Smash 4 got knocked out by FF7 unfortunately

 

[Champ Gold]

Watch us get Melee VS Smash 4 as the finale of BGE
It won't happen but still

Smash 4 lost.

Lol if only.

Smash 4 got knocked out by FF7 unfortunately

It's gonna happen again in a week

 

[Bedoop]

Wanna know some tasty what-goes-around-comes-around
FFVII was so powerful that not even did they have to break free from cartridges, but they had to use MULTIPLE DISCS.
And now, with FFVIIR, because it's more powerful than what our current generation of consoles has, it ALSO has to use Multiple Discs!
Ain't that strange?

 

[Neo Zero]

Uhhh.....this has been going on for weeks now.

Even if 4chan is involved now, the rally originated from Reddit and Tumblr.



One of the Wayforward goons marking out for themselves was front page news here.

It's not like standards were super high before now or anything.

At least that time wasn't trying to give Gamefaqs more traffic lol.

Suffice to say, neither story I was marking out bro.

 

[AreJay25]

Minecraft not using the Gamepad for inventory is... what? Why?

Zelda got it right, among other games, what's Minecraft's excuse?

 

[OurBraveHero]

Oh wow you're right http://gonintendo.com/stories/24839...tion-won-t-use-the-gamepad-screen-for-item-ma

So it's more expensive than the other versions (bc it's packaged with dlc I know) + no exclusive stuff? I don't see this version doing too well (not that I did before)

I tweeted at the guy asking if they are eventually planning on implementing stuff for the gamepad or if there's amiibo support or anything. I'll let you know if he replies.

 

[Bedoop]

Lol if only.

Smash 4 got knocked out by FF7 unfortunately

Smash 4 lost.

And now I don't regret putting

It won't happen but still

there.
You folks need to look at the little things in life.
Like why kids love the great taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch.