Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[TheAnvil]

Are you also implying that she can't be made to work? That's a bit over-confident to assume.

Honestly? I don't think she can work. The original 4 Star Fox team members have personalities that completely balanced eachother, while also having worth from a gameplay perspective.
-Falco showed you hidden routes.
-Peppy was your mentor, he taught you how to play the game.
-Slippy told you how much health bosses had. (Enemy Shield Analysed)

Krystal is quite simply just "there", and disruptively so. Mostly because she was never designed to be there in the first place. She was taken from another, completely unrelated game and placed into Star Fox because Miyamoto thought the design of the main character bore a slight resemblance to Fox McCloud.

My like of her is kind of based on bias, as I am at heart a Rare fanboy. But she really has no place in the Star Fox team.

 

[Con0rrrr]

Hey Con0rrrr , I just want to say that your review of Ultra Smash was really good, basically described every problem I had in a unique way.

Thank you!

It's definitely more satire than serious. But I appreciate that. When a game is bad, I tend to review it like this. When a game is actually alright, there's less jokes and more review points (see, my Battlefront review).

I just find it hilarious how people are complaining that the review isn't serious. Lmfao. It's Mario Tennis people.

 

[FalKoopa]

Honestly? I don't think she can work. The original 4 Star Fox team members have personalities that completely balanced eachother, while also having worth from a gameplay perspective.
-Falco showed you hidden routes.
-Peppy was your mentor, he taught you how to play the game.
-Slippy told you how much health bosses had. (Enemy Shield Analysed)

Krystal is quite simply just "there", and disruptively so. Mostly because she was never designed to be there in the first place. She was taken from another, completely unrelated game and placed into Star Fox because Miyamoto thought the design of the main character bore a slight resemblance to Fox McCloud.

My like of her is kind of based on bias, as I am at heart a Rare fanboy. But she really has no place in the Star Fox team.

I suppose that she doesn't fit in given the way she is currently. But that doesn't stop them from retooling her to fit somewhere else. A retcon, if you may.

Considering she's a rather well known part of the franchise, just removing her outright doesn't seem right to me.

 

[CroonerMike]

All joking aside, Krystal just doesn't belong anymore and is not a fun character when you boil down to it. Lacks personality unlike the other characters.

 

[TheAnvil]

I suppose that she doesn't fit in given the way she is currently. But that doesn't stop them from retooling her to fit somewhere else. A retcon, if you may.

Considering she's a rather well known part of the franchise, just removing her outright doesn't seen right to me.

It's kind of a thing where Nintendo are damned if they do and damned if they don't... Krystal has her fans, but she's strongly associated with the decline in quality of games. If they cut her, people are going to be upset. If they don't, then people are going to be upset.

In all though, they've got to do right by Star Fox now more than ever. This game HAS to live up to the originals.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Honestly i remember very little of Krystal in assualt.

What i do remember is she put Peppy in an advisory role instead of out in the field which worked super well.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Not to mention that things that happened in the past still affect the present. Cause and effect and all that jazz. I mean native americans had their land stolen and all they have to show for it are casinos, a few museums, and a really small amount of land and "benefits".

Ignoring the past runs the risk of making the same mistakes as our predecessors. Sweeping things under a rug seldom works in real life, ya know. It's one of those things that sounds good on paper, but when you actually try it you realize it was a pretty horrible idea. Instead of ignoring the past, we should use knowledge of past events to pave the future a bit better. Easier said than done, of course, but I believe it's true.

It'll take a long time, though. As long as both side make an effort to rectify problems and forgive each other things will eventually turn out fine, but centuries of bad blood isn't gonna disappear over night. Plain and simple.

Forgetting does not equal letting go though.

Forgetting is completely ignoring something that happened. Letting go is acknowledging something that happened but no longer letting it get to you. It's like a family member who died.

It isn't over night though. At least in the USA it has been like over 50 years. I'm not sure of the exact details. Also, I'm not sure how treating each other as equals isn't treating each other fairly. Yeah, it's going on in Canada apparently. But I doubt the citizens are having a big influence on it and it probably more corrupt politicians.

A game with a "Native American" costume isn't going to do anything bad. The costume isn't saying, "this is how all native americans act" but, "this is how one individual who happens to be a part of our fictional natives acts." Thats how all the costumes in the Bravely series have worked so far.

Also, by the idea of "treating Native americans homogeneously" it is impossible to accurately portray them. Because the minute you put one in, what it seems you are saying is that the developers are trying to say is that "this is how all native americans act." Which is not true at all.

Anyway, what are we talking about now? Star fox? Don't care for it myself. Tried Star fox 64 3d and I couldn't get into it.

 

[Con0rrrr]

You guys bring up an interesting point.

In the Brawl days, Krystal was a prime candidate. Still relevant... still popular... etc...

Now she seems to have fallen out of that place. I'm not sure if she has a chance at all anymore.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Clearly the stance most of you have on the character is Krystal clear, so why even continue? :V

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Pirate was a class in the first game. Pirate.

'Pirate' is a job, yes.

Also, I'm not sure how you didn't think Singer was weird. I mean, by the same logic, "my job is dress in ridiculous outfits and sing to people."

'Singer' is a job, yes, and many singers do dress in ridiculous outfits and sing to people, also yes. I'm not sure I understand where I'm mistaken?

Also, you mentioned context, but completely forgot about it. A mexican class makes no sense because there is nothing to base it off of. Like what COULD you make it based off of.

I'm not walking into this trap.

My point is there are jobs that make sense because they're legitimate occupations, and then there's the one that's just "hey guess what I look like a racial stereotype just for the sake of looking like a stereotype." To @Dravidian 's point, the problem is this treatment devalues an entire race's way of dressing and behaving as a mere novelty. That's what's so dangerous about it.

Even from the designer's perspective, this should have stood out as a bit of a sore thumb - but the reason it didn't is because no one's flipping out about it overseas, and that's probably because it isn't intended in a mean-spirited way. To them, I bet there are players who probably appreciate it as a bit of a parody or because it's exotic to them.

That's kind of the point of this whole debate, though - what one culture finds to be a nod of endearment towards something they find fascinating, another finds to be insensitive. Censorship is viewed by most as this big government conspiracy to put blinders over our eyes to prevent us from being upset (or, more precisely, to spare corporations from the whining of angry mothers and the resulting bad PR), but there's more to it than that. This is a case of a genuine cultural gap where one region receives information in a different context than another - and, there it is again; Context. That's what's at the root of all this.

To be clear, I'm not advocating or applauding the removal of the Native American likeness; I'm just saying I understand why it comes across as a faux pas. They could have gone the other direction and added more of it to the game so the class made sense in context, and it probably would have been received better.

From my limited understanding of the game, the job of the Tomahawk is that they are very good at using guns. They also have their abilities to consider, which I haven't played the game to tell you what those do.

If what you say is true, then 'Cowboy' makes way more sense and they should've just gone with that in the first place.

 

[SlickWylde]

NOTHING will be even close to as bad as tripping.

Careful, don't jinx us, Sakurai is still patching the game... SHHHHH

 

[Metal Shop X]

Careful, don't jinx us, Sakurai is still patching the game... SHHHHH

Nah, he is going to add in the next patch a optional mode called "Brawl Mode". Where like before, you can tripping randomely, cancel the hitsun even faster and the game is even as slow as Brawl!

What? Why not a Melee mode you ask? Well the game is still strong today. So it would serve to nothing of course.

 

[Oblivion129]

Oblivion129

Sorry about only now reply to you, I was traveling and kind of busy before.
So... the tourney. Nice tourney, giant tourney in Brazil.
I'm a bit sad because my pool was the most difficult, with more then 8 high level players trying 4 slots for top 16.
I won by the Winners until the last match until top16, that would be later in the day.
I lost to a Ryu player, I didn't know the MU very well.And than I lost again, now in losers, against a top player from one side of the country.

...17th/128
I'm sad because I don't got into the top16 or top 8 The level was so high...At least I won matches over some top players from here.Player7 won the GF against a 15 year old boy from the south of the country, someone who nobody knew before.
The guy was legendary in the tourney, and plays so well overall. Probably best Ness player in the country, really a fantastic "discovery".
[I forgot to talk before, my tag is Precs]

Do you have any videos of your matches? It's cool that a 15 year old who came out of nowhere actually played well. It gives hope that the South American community can grow.
I saw pictures and I saw that Player7 was using Captain Falcon instead of Sheik. That's weird because over here he only used CF for friendlies. His Sheik is harder.

Kinda neat Project M has a Auto L Cancel option. I'll host a small Project M tourney on Tuesday with it on. And I won't tell a soul.

I actually like using L-cancel in Melee/PM because it wss fun to learn when to do it with your character. You had to take into account if the move hit or not because it alters the timing if there was hitstun or not. I don't mind the autocancel option though but I still press L out of habit in PM.

 

[FalKoopa]

Careful, don't jinx us, Sakurai is still patching the game... SHHHHH

Let's add a torture mode.

If you don't L-cancel your aerials, you trip. Best of both worlds.

 

[Kenith]

Careful, don't jinx us, Sakurai is still patching the game... SHHHHH

What if like, next April 1st, Sakurai patches in random tripping for one whole day

 

[Chrono.]

ESAM made a tier list lol

 

[Fenriraga]

ESAM made a tier list lol

Haha, I was scratching my head so hard until I looked at the actual tier titles.
Disband the Smash 4 backroom, ESAM knows where it's at.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

I'm not walking into this trap.

Trap? There was no trap. There was no, "aha! Gotcha" to be had.

My point is there are jobs that make sense because they're legitimate occupations, and then there's the one that's just "hey guess what I look like a racial stereotype just for the sake of looking like a stereotype." To @Dravidian 's point, the problem is this treatment devalues an entire race's way of dressing and behaving as a mere novelty. That's what's so dangerous about it.

I don't even see anything dangerous about this even if it was true. I don't believe in whatever they believe. Me wearing "indian" clothes would have nothing to do with why they wore their clothes. I'm wearing the clothes because they look cool they are wearing it because of their cultural. Me wearing it because it is cool does not effect why they wear it.

Most people are not wearing stereotypes for the sake of wearing stereotypes. Some people legitimately feel that way of dressing is cool. Others know it is a stereotype, acknowledge it, and then have a laugh from it knowing it is a ridiculous look at a group of people.

Even from the designer's perspective, this should have stood out as a bit of a sore thumb - but the reason it didn't is because no one's flipping out about it overseas, and that's probably because it isn't intended in a mean-spirited way. To them, I bet there are players who probably appreciate it as a bit of a parody or because it's exotic to them.

The latter of it being exotic is more probable. Why was it put in? Because it looked cool. You said it yourself, it wasn't mean-spirited. It was entirely because the design and personality of the girl was interesting to them. Going back to not being mean-spirited. If it isn't mean-spirited, we don't have a problem. As long as they don't go out of the way to say, "all native-americans in the real world act like this one individual" we have no problems. It is up to the player's interpretations. If they want to be a bigot and assume that that is how all Native americans act and look like, that is that one player's interpretation and if that one player is encounter, that one player should be educated.

That's kind of the point of this whole debate, though - what one culture finds to be a nod of endearment towards something they find fascinating, another finds to be insensitive.

Yes. The debate is that the latter is a problem. Also, if they do have it because of it being fascinating, wouldn't that debunk your point that the outfit is being worn purely because it is a stereotype?

Censorship is viewed by most as this big government conspiracy to put blinders over our eyes to prevent us from being upset (or, more precisely, to spare corporations from the whining of angry mothers and the resulting bad PR), but there's more to it than that. This is a case of a genuine cultural gap where one region receives information in a different context than another - and, there it is again; Context. That's what's at the root of all this.

Government conspiracy? I'm...pretty sure most people know the government isn't involved in most censorship of video games. At least, all the places I've been too. I see the most focus on the developers.

To be clear, I'm not advocating or applauding the removal of the Native American likeness; I'm just saying I understand why it comes across as a faux pas. They could have gone the other direction and added more of it to the game so the class made sense in context, and it probably would have been received better.

...You know. Here are questions then. Did you play the game or seen it? Do you know the context of the game? Do you know who gives the class and what their personality is like? And again, this is all fictional. I'm truly curious. Then you can tell me how she acts in game.

If what you say is true, then 'Cowboy' makes way more sense and they should've just gone with that in the first place.

Depends on the Battle abilities and equip-able abilities. If it is more nature focused and/or Guerrilla Warfare focused, Tomahawk makes more sense.

 

[Chrono.]

Haha, I was scratching my head so hard until I looked at the actual tier titles.
Disband the Smash 4 backroom, ESAM knows where it's at.

Basically he thinks most are viable, so theres only really 4 tiers.

• Top
• Everyone Else
• The Shamed 5
• Miis

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Anyway, Yo-kai watch. Trying to catch a Castillus Max so I can get my 4th legendary Yo-kai. The last legendary Yo-kai seems to be based on luck with the Crank-a-kai. So not much I can do there but be patient.

 

[FalKoopa]

It's a shame Bowser is so low.

Remember when "No items, Bowser only, Spirit Tracks" was a thing?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Anyway, Yo-kai watch. Trying to catch a Castillus Max so I can get my 4th legendary Yo-kai. The last legendary Yo-kai seems to be based on luck with the Crank-a-kai. So not much I can do there but be patient.

You can fuse the Platinum Bar (The item Castelius Max drops) with Castelius the I to make a Castelius Max.

 

[Chrono.]

It's a shame Bowser is so low.

Remember when "No items, Bowser only, Spirit Tracks" was a thing?

Wasn't that when there were only demos and previews to judge from?

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

You can fuse the Platinum Bar (The item Castelius Max drops) with Castelius the I to make a Castelius Max.

I've been doing both trying to catch it and trying to get it to drop the item at the same time. I've been giving it milk and taking out as many as I can. Both options are incredibly rare, but I'll be happy if one of them happens.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Anyway, do someone here can help a poor soul that need 8 stars on SMM before he can finally upload more level? I will be really grateful to anyone who will do that.

 

[Deleted member]

Trap? There was no trap.

:^(

ESAM made a tier list lol

Why is Mario at the top?
Or is this just a joke and the order isn't supposed to matter?

It's a shame Bowser is so low.

Remember when "No items, Bowser only, Spirit Tracks" was a thing?

It still is with me and my friends
But replace Spirit Tracks with Pac-Land
I hate them for forcing me to play on MS Paint

 

[FalKoopa]

Wasn't that when there were only demos and previews to judge from?

Yes, that's what I was referring to.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

:^(

Don't worry. There shall always be a trap in our hearts. <3

It's starting to get cold. Being cold is the best worst thing. Being cold is horrible, but warming up feels soooooooo good.

 

[Deleted member]

Don't worry. There shall always be a trap in our hearts. <3

It's starting to get cold. Being cold is the best worst thing. Being cold is horrible, but warming up feels soooooooo good.

It's starting to get hot here
I hate hot weathers because it's harder to cool down than to warm up on the cold
You can also keep putting on clothes until you're warm on the Winter but you can't do the opposite on the Summer :/

 

[Champ Gold]

ESAM made a tier list lol

I...don't get it.

I can see it's a joke considering freaking DHD is at the bottom

 

[FalKoopa]

I...don't get it.

I can see it's a joke considering freaking DHD is at the bottom

On the left.

"Almost"
"All"
"Chars"
"Work"
"Except"

 

[BlueX]

Metal Shop X

I starred all of the reuploaded ones. I quickly put in the game before anyone else could .

Please enjoy!

 

[Chrono.]

No he's serious.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Solfiner]

ESAM made a tier list lol

Why is Robin so high?

I think a lot of these placings need more tournament results honestly.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Metal Shop X

I starred all of the reuploaded ones. I quickly put in the game before anyone else could .

Please enjoy!

R-really?

Let me see that with my own eye.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Back to the Native American to Cowboy, I'm conflicted, the change reminds me of this

Spoiler

which is good! But there's no archery but generic pistols instead, so that's bad

Also, MyNintendoNews used a fanmade Mega Giratina design for a Mystery Dungeon article. kek

 

[Metal Shop X]

Oh My GODDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FINALLY!!! I HAVE FINALLY GET ALL THOSE FREAKING 150 STARS!!!!!! YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH BlueX !!!!!!!

 

[Chrono.]

Also, MyNintendoNews used a fanmade Mega Giratina design for a Mystery Dungeon article. kek

Gaming Journalism™

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Gaming Journalism™

I don't get how you can just make an article and use a irrelevant image without getting scolded by higher ups

 

[Chandeelure]

So, I didn't like Undertale because, I don't know, I can be pretty hipster sometimes.
But now, after watching a complete "Let's play" in Youtube I'm like:

That was great and... depressing.
Much better than Shovel Knight and Shantae combined