Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[Chrono.]

Random Question but wanting a new topic


What game would work wonders under a Maker-styled game like Mario Kart Maker, Zelda Maker or even F-Zero Maker

Sonic Studio.

Make your own broken game so SEGA won't have to.

 

[Naoshi]

Sega actually had a Sonic stage creator on their European site a few years ago. (This was before Sonic 4 was a thing) Sadly, it was buggy and only had one level theme. It was a bit neat for a flash game though.

 

[Strofirko]

Sonic Studio.

Make your own broken game so SEGA won't have to.

I see whaddyyadidaathera.

 

[Burb]

Determining when Cloud was started and whether he's ballot or not is just one spitballing game.

The only thing we know is that...

• Characters and Stages take a long time, anywhere from 6 months to a year.
• Cloud and Midgar have been in development for quite some time.
• The ballot opened in April and closed in October.
• Sakurai implied that Cloud was a difficult request, though he used similar language about Lucas, Roy and Ryu.

We really don't know much.

Regardless, I hope we get more than three characters.

Source? I've never heard him refer to Ryu as a character who was added to "fulfill a request".

It's not really the case for Lucas and Roy, as they were referred to as "past characters who were particularly popular", which is quite different than fulfilling a request.

This is yet another case of "Sakurai's word vs what fans think". We all know how these end.

 

[Strofirko]

Brazilian steam is in a process of death thanks to bethesda and their trained monkey.

 

[Deleted member]

Random Question but wanting a new topic


What game would work wonders under a Maker-styled game like Mario Kart Maker, Zelda Maker or even F-Zero Maker

I'd say mario kart maker would work best. I mean, unlike F Zero there's usually more hazards and things like that... But at the same time.... I really, really, want some more F Zero anything, really.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sonic Studio.

Make your own broken game so SEGA won't have to.

Let's see, Sonic Unleashed 2, Sonic 4: Episode 3... yeah, won't be too hard to make a broken game.

 

[Burb]

Fan polls on their own don't mean that much but considering none of the fan polls placed Cloud particularly highly and there was no notable online Smash community that actually had a Cloud bias, or any sort of real fanbase for him at all, the claims that some silent majority managed to make Cloud so popular the process to add him must've started almost right out of the gate seem a little dubious to say the least. And some ambiguous tweet from Sakurai isn't enough to make me think otherwise, especially when we'll probably be getting clarification next month.

It's not a popularity contest, it's a suggestion box. We're giving them ideas, not voting for the next character.

I don't get why this is so difficult to comprehend.

 

[Dravidian]

Last I checked we're in November, which would place it in May. Not June. Add to that all the legal jumbo that it takes to license a 3rd Party character.

It's not as if Sakurai rang Square Enix and said "Yo, gonna put Cloud in Smash. That ok?".

To be fair that 6 month period is an estimate that includes bug fixes, fine tuning, and balancing. Considering the 5 main phases of development (design, prototype (playable), alpha, beta, and code releases) and the fact that his trailer was meant to showcase his moves, Cloud doesnt need to be complete in order to make a trailer for him. He only needs to be in alpha or beta to be at the level we saw.

And while they'd need to (or at least should) get permission to develop Cloud, I dont think it would take months. Cloud is not the first third 3rd party. Concerning playable characters, five came before him and one of them was done twice. Even if we assume megaman and Ryu were negotiated at the same time that's at least separate five separate occasions they've made contracts and negotiated with 3rd parties. More if you consider trophies like Commander Video and Rayman.

Nintendo and sakurai have plenty of negotiation experience and considering we're talking about smash I really doubt it took Square Enix a long time to give the OK. I imagine it went something like this:

[first two months of ballot] NOTE: it is my personal view that waiting till the ballot ends doesnt make business sense
[early june]
Sakurai: We want Cloud in Smash
SE: **** yeah!
[next 2-3 weeks spent negotiating]
[Late June/Early July development on Cloud and stage begins]
[4 months later in early November: Trailer of cloud is shown]

If Cloud gets released mid-December and we assume his work started in July instead of late June, then that's a roughly 6 months of work; it's a solid 6 months if we're talking 28-day months and they started late june.


That said, it's also possible that Cloud is pre-ballot and what we saw was complete.

We just don't know....but at the same time it doesnt matter. Regardless of when Cloud was started or if he's a ballot character or not, we're still getting the same amount of characters. It really doesnt change much.

 

[ChikoLad]

It's not a popularity contest, it's a suggestion box.

I don't get why this is so difficult to comprehend.

Being a suggestion box inherently means it's a popularity contest of some kind.

The characters that are most commonly suggested (i.e. popular) are the ones that will catch their attention.

 

[Shroob]

Who says he's been worked on for 6 months already?

Just because he looks done doesn't mean he is done. We had a full Lucas trailer on April 1st, but didn't get the character until June 14th.

I'm fairly confident we'll be leaving the December direct with Cloud+ extras. While I can't say for certain that he 'is' 100% done, I find it odd they'd have a Direct a month later just to say "He's not done yet".

 

[Deleted member]

Being a suggestion box inherently means it's a popularity contest of some kind.

The characters that are most commonly suggested (i.e. popular) are the ones that will catch their attention.

And the thing is, really, even if was a suggestion box and the top votes didn't matter... How many people really even voted for cloud? I mean really, pretty much everyone was surprised. There was never huge support for cloud, he was usually just one of those characters you'd see on out there rosters alongside characters like natuto or goku.(Before anyone jumps on me, no I'm not saying he was THAT unlikely, but still.)

 

[Burb]

I'm fairly confident we'll be leaving the December direct with Cloud+ extras. While I can't say for certain that he 'is' 100% done, I find it odd they'd have a Direct a month later just to say "He's not done yet".

We're at the end of Smash 4 DLC. There's probably only two other characters left.

Just because the last Smash broadcast had the content launch immediately after it ended doesn't mean it's going to happen again. For all we know, we could just get the rest of the crap announced and a release date.

Being a suggestion box inherently means it's a popularity contest of some kind.

The characters that are most commonly suggested (i.e. popular) are the ones that will catch their attention.

I think Stage Hazardley and King K. Mii might disagree with that.

And the thing is, really, even if was a suggestion box and the top votes didn't matter... How many people really even voted for cloud? I mean really, pretty much everyone was surprised. There was never huge support for cloud, he was usually just one of those characters you'd see on out there rosters alongside characters like natuto or goku.(Before anyone jumps on me, no I'm not saying he was THAT unlikely, but still.)

I refuted this several posts ago.

Data picked up from some Smash forums aren't accurate. There's a massive amount of voters that wind up unaccounted for, and a lot of "popular" picks from these Smash forums that most casual players more than likely would not vote for (K. Rool, Isaac, Shantae).

Casual players are the ones who are most likely to have voted for someone like Cloud, Naruto, or Goku. And casual players are the ones who are most likely to have not voted in fan polls related to the ballot.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Wow. I just encounter a Yo-kai I hadn't even seen before when I did this quest. It was like called Confuze or something.

And then looking in my medallium, there is a lot of Yo-kai I haven't even seen. Wow.

 

[Bananija]

I think Stage Hazardley and King K. Mii might take disagree with that.

Stage hazardley was made before the ballot, and no one can say for sure if the K.Osplay or any mii costumes hurt a character in any way. Heck, it's even possible that the kostume was made because of K.Rool huge support before the game launch.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

I still think the costumes mean nothing. Especially since all the newcomers so far have been 3rd parties potentially meaning they didn't even consider adding a first part character yet.

I mean, really, there is now even less evidence to support the idea that if a character gets a costume they can't be in.

 

[Deleted member]

I refuted this several posts ago.

Chances are I missed it, heavy allergies due to being in a cat house, Phone posting, and a fast thread aren't a good combo, I must admit.

Casual players are the ones who are most likely to have voted for someone like Cloud, Naruto, or Goku. And casual players are the ones who are most likely to have not voted in fan polls related to the ballot.

Even then, Cloud isn't even that popular with the casuals either. My point is that he was usually on joke rosters... Just kind of.... There....

 

[Burb]

Stage hazardley was made before the ballot, and no one can say for sure if the K.Osplay or any mii costumes hurt a character in any way. Heck, it's even possible that the kostume was made because of K.Rool huge support before the game launch.

My point about Stage Hazardley has nothing to do with the ballot.

It has to do with fan requests. Sakurai knew people wanted Ridley playable. He addressed the situation after the launch of both SSB4 and Brawl.

He's still not playable. My point is that being highly requested doesn't mean as much as people seem to think it does. We've seen that popularity isn't enough to guarantee you a spot on the main roster, and I thoroughly believe that the same is the case for the ballot.

As for K. Rool, I believe his costume was a consolation prize. A sort of make-good to the people who wanted K. Rool.

Even then, Cloud isn't even that popular with the casuals either. My point is that he was usually on joke rosters... Just kind of.... There....

The joke rosters are usually made by people in the community.

The same people who are backing characters like Shantae and Isaac, and viewed ones like Cloud as being impossible.

 

[Dravidian]

I refuted this several posts ago.

Data picked up from some Smash forums aren't accurate. There's a massive amount of voters that wind up unaccounted for, and a lot of "popular" picks from these Smash forums that most casual players more than likely would not vote for (K. Rool, Isaac, Shantae).

Casual players are the ones who are most likely to have voted for someone like Cloud, Naruto, or Goku. And casual players are the ones who are most likely to have not voted in fan polls related to the ballot.

While I agree you, I'm not quite sure Could should be included with those whom casuals voted for.

Imo, if we want to see the view of casuals we just need to look at miiverse.....
Who's ready for Son Goku?

 

[Deleted member]

Maker games? Clearly we need an Etrian Odyssey Maker! Because maybe then you guys will play it :'^)

Eh, I think fan polls from random communities were full of **** since the beginning.



It is best that we pretend the Game Awards doesn't exist. Always thought that show was meaningless.

I always thought that from the beginning
But, you know, the moment you say K. Rool isn't that popular...

 

[PushDustIn]

All im getting out of this argument is we are arguing a few words with a 140 character limit and what they mean when in reality we have absolutely no clue ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

To be fair...140 characters is a lot in Japanese.

I think I said it in SourceCast #4 and I'll say it here. The three main translators all agree that Sakurai means a ballot character when talking about Cloud's request.

Sometimes we have long arguments about what Sakurai said because he tends to be kind of ambiguous ("only several more characters") but this wasn't the case this time. We all looked at that tweet and said, yup. Cloud is a ballot character, or at least will be promoted as one.

I've been saying for months that our fan polls are unreliable and I got laughed at by some in the community.

It's not that hard to see that we greatly overestimate the size and impact of the hardcore community.

People in the hardcore community - around 10,000
People who bought Smash for Wii U/ 3DS - 7,000,000+

I'd reckon that people outside of the fanbase don't really know characters like K Rool and Isaac as they have been MIA for a long time. We need to remember that some characters are popular with us, and not with everyone.

It's the same reason Geno wasn't picked over Cloud; Cloud is a much more iconic and iconic character outside of the immediate fandom.

Everyone saying that Cloud couldn't be ballot because none of us voted for him are lost in the echo chamber.

 

[ChikoLad]

I personally don't believe Cloud was to do with the ballot. I believe either Sakurai wanted him in, or Square Enix struck a deal (I mean the Direct that revealed Cloud had like, 4 or 5 Nintendo exclusive Square Enix games announced or shown off with new details in it).

A lot of people go on about how Cloud means "anyone is possible" and I say this in jest sometimes too, but in actuality, while Cloud was unexpected, he wasn't unprecedented. He may not have been on Nintendo all that much (and all of his appearances are effectively cameos), but Square Enix have a storied history with Nintendo, release plenty of games on Nintendo, and Cloud himself is THE JRPG character, just like how Mario is THE platforming character, Ryu is THE fighting game character, Pac-Man is THE video game character, etc. Considering Sakurai's track record of putting in third party characters that are truly icons, he honestly had every right to be more seriously considered. Kinda like how Rosalina was cast aside as "unlikely" by the speculation community despite her proven popularity, relevance to core Mario, and all of that. People mostly cast her aside because "lol she'd be a Peach clone".

We're at the end of Smash 4 DLC. There's probably only two other characters left.

Just because the last Smash broadcast had the content launch immediately after it ended doesn't mean it's going to happen again. For all we know, we could just get the rest of the crap announced and a release date.



I think Stage Hazardley and King K. Mii might take disagree with that.



I refuted this several posts ago.

Data picked up from some Smash forums aren't accurate. There's a massive amount of voters that wind up unaccounted for, and a lot of "popular" picks from these Smash forums that most casual players more than likely would not vote for (K. Rool, Isaac, Shantae).

Casual players are the ones who are most likely to have voted for someone like Cloud, Naruto, or Goku. And casual players are the ones who are most likely to have not voted in fan polls related to the ballot.

Ignoring whether or not the ballot is a thing, Ridley is a special case. He is a popular choice (albeit in part for the wrong reasons), and Sakurai acknowledged this and outright said he has attempted to put Ridley in IIRC (or at least conceptualised him, I don't exactly remember). But he hasn't been included due to the fact Sakurai doesn't see any feasible way to put him in as a fighter from a technical standpoint, while also keeping the character's defining traits in tact.

As for K. Rool, his Mii costume means nothing. Plenty of characters have Mii costumes now. Inklings have Mii costumes, and even a trophy, and people still think they can get in. I don't see what makes K. Rool different here.

 

[Dravidian]

It is best that we pretend the Game Awards doesn't exist. Always thought that show was meaningless.

Last Year was decent iirc. The one before that was garbage though...

 

[Firus]

Being a suggestion box inherently means it's a popularity contest of some kind.

The characters that are most commonly suggested (i.e. popular) are the ones that will catch their attention.

Not necessarily. Really common ones are likely to catch their attention, but it could also just be a random, rarely suggested character that they wouldn't have thought of without the ballot. There are a lot of ways something could catch their attention and we can't presume to know their intentions with the ballot.

 

[CroonerMike]

Why do we even give a **** if Cloud was the Ballot Character or not?

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

Random Question but wanting a new topic


What game would work wonders under a Maker-styled game like Mario Kart Maker, Zelda Maker or even F-Zero Maker

Sonic Maker.
Complete with a Sonic 4 mode with broken physics.

 

[Burb]

All im getting out of this argument is we are arguing a few words with a 140 character limit and what they mean when in reality we have absolutely no clue ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Unless he's asking us what we thought about the characters that came out months ago or is asking us what we think about a character who hasn't been revealed yet, it's about Cloud.

I don't understand how people can even argue that it might not be about Cloud. There are no other scenarios that make a lick of sense.

 

[Dravidian]

Why do we even give a **** if Cloud was the Ballot Character or not?

Well I dont, but people are bored and feel like arguing moot points. At this point our opinions no longer matter. We're just going along for the ride.

 

[Bananija]

My point about Stage Hazardley has nothing to do with the ballot.

I thought that you meant only about the ballot, my bad

It has to do with fan requests. Sakurai knew people wanted Ridley playable. He addressed the situation after the launch of both SSB4 and Brawl.

He's still not playable. My point is that being highly requested doesn't mean as much as people seem to think it does. We've seen that popularity isn't enough to guarantee you a spot on the main roster, and I thoroughly believe that the same is the case for the ballot.

Even there, Ridley wasn't playable because he is hard to balance and to make work and Sakurai couldn't make him work in a way fitting his vision. I don't think that the supposed popular ballot's character will have those problems. Maybe some will have the vision part, but I don't think a lot of them will be too hard to balance or make for Sakurai and his team.

As for K. Rool, I believe his costume was a consolation prize. A sort of make-good to the people who wanted K. Rool.

That's your opinion I believe that both are possible, but hope for it to be nothing hurting.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Not necessarily. Really common ones are likely to catch their attention, but it could also just be a random, rarely suggested character that they wouldn't have thought of without the ballot. There are a lot of ways something could catch their attention and we can't presume to know their intentions with the ballot.

Also, the reasons listed can come with moveset ideas. The name and character alone doesn't nearly mean as much as the actual ideas on how to implement them. Lots of votes are great, but ideas are what makes characters happen.

 

[Deleted member]

The joke rosters are usually made by people in the community.

The same people who are voting for characters like Shantae and disregarded ones like Cloud as being impossible.

Yes, I'm aware. But I hang out with "casuals" not too in touch with the community, they usually just follow the choices of the community. I mean, really, unless they're THAT out if touch with everything.... Eeehhhh... But I guess I don't know, it just seems that even the casuals would pick many, many characters other than cloud.

Why do we even give a **** if Cloud was the Ballot Character or not?

I don't. I just have literally nothing else to do, I don't even have any food to eat, ATM.

It really is more or less just an exchange of an opinions. I mean, TBH, I don't even care too much about who gets in at this point in smash.

 

[PushDustIn]

Also, for the Melee ballot (the only one we have data for) Sakurai didn't always go with the top voted characters. He picked them from the list. Heck, the Ice Climbers were on the bottom of "retro reps" and they got in.

 

[ChikoLad]

Not necessarily. Really common ones are likely to catch their attention, but it could also just be a random, rarely suggested character that they wouldn't have thought of without the ballot. There are a lot of ways something could catch their attention and we can't presume to know their intentions with the ballot.

I disagree, since we know Sakurai doesn't need sole popularity to include characters. Some character additions literally are "Sakurai picks" through and through. But that doesn't matter with the base game, since people will buy that anyway - even if it has random, "WTF" picks like , it still has popular Smash fanbase requests like , or just characters with notable popularity within the general Nintendo fanbase like , so people still buy the base game.

They said the whole point of the ballot was to get in characters the fans want, which would more than likely entail the majority rather than the minority. Also consider that the characters they pick are a product that will be sold on it's own, not with other characters. A lot of people only want the characters they like, so it is within neither Sakurai's/Nintendo's, or the fanbase's best interests, to pick characters that have little popularity in the fanbase.

So yeah, I think the ballot is as close to being a popularity contest without them explicitly saying it is.

That's just how I see it though, because I don't think the existence of the ballot makes sense otherwise.

 

[Burb]

Ignoring whether or not the ballot is a thing, Ridley is a special case. He is a popular choice (albeit in part for the wrong reasons), and Sakurai acknowledged this and outright said he has attempted to put Ridley in IIRC (or at least conceptualised him, I don't exactly remember). But he hasn't been included due to the fact Sakurai doesn't see any feasible way to put him in as a fighter from a technical standpoint, while also keeping the character's defining traits in tact.

And your point is.....?

We don't know what factors could've led to the popular picks being overlooked. Maybe they saw Cloud and knew he'd be a big seller? Maybe Sakurai decided someone like K. Rool is too unimportant to the DK series in its current state to warrant a playable spot on the roster? Maybe Isaac was overlooked because his series has no future?

As for K. Rool, his Mii costume means nothing. Plenty of characters have Mii costumes now. Inklings have Mii costumes, and even a trophy, and people still think they can get in. I don't see what makes K. Rool different here.

Other people do; I don't.

I consider Inklings to be disconfirmed just the same as K. Rool.

I disagree, since we know Sakurai doesn't need sole popularity to include characters. Some character additions literally are "Sakurai picks" through and through. But that doesn't matter with the base game, since people will buy that anyway - even if it has random, "WTF" picks like , it still has popular Smash fanbase requests like , or just characters with notable popularity within the general Nintendo fanbase like , so people still buy the base game.

They said the whole point of the ballot was to get in characters the fans want, which would more than likely entail the majority rather than the minority. Also consider that the characters they pick are a product that will be sold on it's own, not with other characters. A lot of people only want the characters they like, so it is within neither Sakurai's/Nintendo's, or the fanbase's best interests, to pick characters that have little popularity in the fanbase.

So yeah, I think the ballot is as close to being a popularity contest without them explicitly saying it is.

That's just how I see it though, because I don't think the existence of the ballot makes sense otherwise.

If you think that Mega Man was a pick who was "just notable", you obviously have little-to-no idea of which characters were wanted and which characters weren't, pre-SSB4.

Before the first trailer, Mega Man was far and beyond the most wanted third party character. He was the most wanted third party character after Sonic was confirmed for Brawl, in fact.

Shulk was sort of a bandwagon character, just like Chrom. He was definitely wanted by a lot of people (myself included), but he really picked up steam after Gematsu gained notoriety and his presence was looked upon as an inevitability.

 

[Bananija]

Why do we even give a **** if Cloud was the Ballot Character or not?

Because this would pretty much determinated how wrong fan polls were I guess?

 

[A Distant Demon]

He is a popular choice (albeit in part for the wrong reasons), .

Can I ask what you mean by this?

Why do we even give a **** if Cloud was the Ballot Character or not?

Because arguing is just what the smash community does

 

[N3ON]

This is yet another case of "Sakurai's word vs what fans think". We all know how these end.

Until Sakurai spells out in more detail what that tweet meant (which will probably come in December) attributing the request to a party not otherwise specified and pretty much putting words in Sakurai's mouth is also "Sakurai's word vs. what fans think", merely just on the other side of the spectrum.

If you don't want to be guilty of that perhaps instead of speaking so definitively you just wait...

It's not a popularity contest, it's a suggestion box. We're giving them ideas, not voting for the next character.

I don't get why this is so difficult to comprehend.

If volume of requests needn't matter the ballot would be pointless. Sakurai could just go on the internet, read as many or as few suggestions as he wanted and pick any given character that jumped out at him.

I think Stage Hazardley and King K. Mii might take disagree with that.

You think a character being made a notable NPC and another getting his own Mii outfit shortly after his popularity exploded disagree with that?

I refuted this several posts ago.

Data picked up from some Smash forums aren't accurate. There's a massive amount of voters that wind up unaccounted for, and a lot of "popular" picks from these Smash forums that most casual players more than likely would not vote for (K. Rool, Isaac, Shantae).

Casual players are the ones who are most likely to have voted for someone like Cloud, Naruto, or Goku. And casual players are the ones who are most likely to have not voted in fan polls related to the ballot.

Smash forums aren't going to provide an accurate or full representation of the voting community at large, but they still act as a microcosm of sorts, albeit a skewed one. Other casual characters such as Naruto and Goku still receive support (even if it's not so prevalent on this site), and the community is aware of the demand that those characters have, regardless of how we feel about them. Therefore suggesting Cloud has this huge silent force behind him that literally the entire vocal online community was unaware of is fairly naive. In Japan he had a bit... here it was practically nothing.

It's an argument that fits your situation but not one that would otherwise stand on its own, let's be real.

Unless he's asking us what we thought about the characters that came out months ago or is asking us what we think about a character who hasn't been revealed yet, it's about Cloud.

I don't understand how people can even argue that it might not be about Cloud. There are no other scenarios that make a lick of sense.

There's the scenario that's he's talking about Cloud but isn't referring to fans.

I don't know exactly what he meant by that tweet. Nobody really does, they're guessing. You might be totally right, who knows. What most are doing, however, is disregarding the tweet until more context is provided and a clear message can be derived and are using the other evidence at hand to form their conclusions .


You can reply to this if you like Burb, but I don't really intend on furthering the conversation. You may be right, though personally I doubt it, but I've been wrong before, right now all we can do is guess, and either way I've said pretty much all I've to say on it by now~

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

I think I said it in SourceCast #4 and I'll say it here. The three main translators all agree that Sakurai means a ballot character when talking about Cloud's request.

Sometimes we have long arguments about what Sakurai said because he tends to be kind of ambiguous ("only several more characters") but this wasn't the case this time. We all looked at that tweet and said, yup. Cloud is a ballot character, or at least will be promoted as one.

Well, I mean, did he actually say Cloud was the ballot character?

Because if not, it is all assumption no matter how you translate it.

This would bring some implications as well.

For example, why was cloud added over other 3rd parties? I mean, what about the minecraft character? I mean surely he is more iconic than cloud and would've been voted in the casual fandom.

Its hard to believe an RPG character would get in over quite a bit of 3rd parties. Especially when its FF where a bunch of people who like FF would be picking characters from all across the games.

So then if Cloud was picked from the ballot it should then mean two things.

One, not everyone is possible for smash as the only reason cloud got in was the ballot and all the other 3rd parties snooze and loose. And adding on to that, this would imply that there are rules since there are quite a bit of characters that could've gotten in like the minecraft character.

 

[PushDustIn]

Well, I mean, did he actually say Cloud was the ballot character?

Because if not, it is all assumption no matter how you translate it.

This would bring some implications as well.

For example, why was cloud added over other 3rd parties? I mean, what about the minecraft character? I mean surely he is more iconic than cloud and would've been voted in the casual fandom.

Its hard to believe an RPG character would get in over quite a bit of 3rd parties. Especially when its FF where a bunch of people who like FF would be picking characters from all across the games.

So then if Cloud was picked from the ballot it should then mean two things.

One, not everyone is possible for smash as the only reason cloud got in was the ballot and all the other 3rd parties snooze and loose. And adding on to that, this would imply that there are rules since there are quite a bit of characters that could've gotten in like the minecraft character.

He used the same exact word for request when referring to Cloud and when he tweeted the fighter ballot. It's an assumption but it's a pretty safe one.

 

[ChikoLad]

And your point is.....?

We don't know what factors could've led to the popular picks being overlooked. Maybe they saw Cloud and knew he'd be a big seller? Maybe Sakurai decided someone like K. Rool is too unimportant to the DK series in its current state to warrant a playable spot on the roster? Maybe Isaac was overlooked because his series has no future?



Other people do; I don't.

I consider Inklings to be disconfirmed just the same as K. Rool.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to debate here in that first statement, since you're just giving a lot of "maybe this or that".

My point with Ridley is that he is a popular pick that has an outright, irrefutable reason for not getting picked - Sakurai lacks the confidence to implement him in a way he feels is satisfactory so he simply isn't doing it. K. Rool on the other hand, hasn't got something. You may hold the opinion that "if a character gets a Mii costume before getting in proper, they can't get in", but it's not something irrefutable. You can't compare the situation to Ridley. Ridley flat out isn't possible for this game. K. Rool still is, regardless of your opinion on his likelihood (for the record, I don't actually think he will get in either).

Can I ask what you mean by this?

I think Ridley is the original "bandwagon" character. I won't deny he has a lot of proper fans. But I think he has a lot of people who just say they want him because "he's likely because reasons so I want him" or "he makes sense", not because they actually care about the character. Hence, I think some of his popularity within the Smash fanbase (i.e. not the Metroid fanbase) is artificial.

That's not a stab at Ridley at all, I just kinda noticed this trend in my time as a Smash fan. If you genuinely love the character because you played Metroid games and you like him because of that, or you played Brawl and liked the boss fights with him, that's different, that's genuine popularity.

But wanting a character for "representation balance" or something like that isn't really liking the character, and a lot of people wanted Ridley for that reason.