Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[kylexv]

Mario Power Tennis is on the eShop?

Whoops. I meant that it was a disc for the Wii.

 

[Shadowwolflink]

I was thinking, if Cloud is a ballot character then I think those placeholder slots might be the last of the pre-ballot characters.

The only problems I see with this are the fact that 6+ DLC characters still to come seems like a lot and why would they wait this long to announce all of them?

 

[DoodleDuck97]

You say this under the assumption that ballot characters will be lazily made.

I don't see how having unique gameplay mechanics means a character MUST be pre-ballot. The grand majority of SSB4's newcomers have unique mechanics.

I didn't specifically say that Ballot characters will be lazily made.
All I am saying is I think both of these Third parties were chosen early on.
As we know the Ballot characters are going to be fan catered to.
So I more than think each one will be given the treatment they deserve.
I had no intention on making it come across as though I thought the ballot characters would be lazy.
Plus as I said when I edited my original post I'm not really bothered if he's Pre-Ballot or Not

 

[Chrono.]

Another correction: It's $50.

Damn it Nintendo lol

I was thinking, if Cloud is a ballot character then I think those placeholder slots might be the last of the pre-ballot characters.

The only problems I see with this are the fact that 6+ DLC characters still to come seems like a lot and why would they wait this long to announce all of them?

There's a good chance the "ballot" characters were chosen long ago, and the rest of the data might just be used for a future Smash title.

I agree though DLC will likely end sooner than later since it won't be long till it surpasses the main title in pricing.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Personally neutral on whether if Cloud is ballot character or not.

On the one hand, Sakurai made that tweet, but you would think the ballot would have been referenced at some point if he were a ballot character.

I'm just going to wait until the special broadcast in December before believing anything unless he says he is/isn't before hand.

 

[Burb]

I didn't specifically say that Ballot characters will be lazily made.
All I am saying is I think both of these Third parties were chosen early on.
As we know the Ballot characters are going to be fan catered to.
So I more than think each one will be given the treatment they deserve.
I had no intention on making it come across as though I thought the ballot characters would be lazy.
Plus as I said when I edited my original post I'm not really bothered if he's Pre-Ballot or Not

Every single point you made was centered around Cloud being "too technical" to be a ballot character. If your point wasn't that ballot characters/stages can't be technical, what exactly was your point?

It's irrelevant as is, because a bunch of baseless theories don't counter the word of Sakurai himself. "Fulfilled a difficult request" confirms it in my book.

Personally neutral on whether if Cloud is Ballot or not.

On the one hand, Sakurai made that tweet, but you would think the ballot would have been referenced at some point if he were a ballot character.

I'm just going to wait until the special broadcast in December before believing anything unless he says he is/isn't before hand.

"Fulfilled a difficult request".

Who, exactly, do you think the person/people who made the request were?

It's not often you see Final Fantasy characters appearing outside of Square-produced titles, so I think we can rule out anyone from Square. And I don't think Nintendo themselves demanded the addition of Cloud Strife.

The most likely identity of the people making the request is the fans.

 

[DoodleDuck97]

Every single point you made was centered around Cloud being "too technical" to be a ballot character. If your point wasn't that ballot characters/stages can't be technical, what exactly was your point?

It's irrelevant as is, because a bunch of baseless theories don't counter the word of Sakurai himself. "Fulfilled a difficult request" confirms it in my book.

So these points were both because he's too technical?
"The only two newcomers are third Parties."
"Another thing when comparing the two is they are both gaming All Star's and both of their newest games are not coming to a Nintendo system as of right now."
I can't quite see how both of these points are to do with him being technical.
I also stated that it looks technical from my understanding. I haven't played or seen gameplay of FF7 outside of tiny clips here and there. I don't know how the Limit break functions and I mentioned that in my original post.

 

[Bedoop]

New Play Control

*cringes intensely*
Pls
No more wrist-flailing
I'd much prefer GCN Port

And even so
Ultra Smash still has online while MPT (As amazing as it is) doesn't
So US won't be deader than dead
It'll just be
Mario Tennis Open: Console Version
-Tournament Mode, Miis, Mii Costumes, Metal Mario, Diddy Kong, Luma, the Babies, All the Yoshi Colors...
...All the Minigames...

Uh
Wow
Ultra Smash is BAD.
Like
Jeez
I never really compared it to Open until now because I don't own Open
But
Wow

 

[N3ON]

I don't think Cloud was a ballot character simply because we heard very little in the way of overwhelming popularity regarding him, which he'd need early out of the gate to be this far into development.

That and because there hasn't been one single concrete reference to him being ballot-related. You'd think they'd say if he was. If only to satiate curiosity and prevent people whining about the lack of ballot results.

But we'll probably find out either way next month, so whatever.

 

[Burb]

So these points were both because he's too technical?
"The only two newcomers are third Parties."
"Another thing when comparing the two is they are both gaming All Star's and both of their newest games are not coming to a Nintendo system as of right now."
I can't quite see how both of these points are to do with him being technical.

Neither of them have anything to do with him being "too technical". You're right.

But they have nothing to do with him being pre-ballot, either. "Ryu is third party and pre-ballot, so Cloud must be, too!" is straw grasping. Their status as "gaming icons" is completely irrelevant, too. Every third party character is a gaming icon, DLC or not.

I also stated that it looks technical from my understanding. I haven't played or seen gameplay of FF7 outside of tiny clips here and there. I don't know how the Limit break functions and I mentioned that in my original post.

Limit Breaks are, in a nutshell, just special attacks. In Final Fantasy VII, there's a bar on-screen that fills up gradually when you're attacked. Once it's full, you can use your character's Limit Break. Each character has multiple.

The Omnislash move he uses in the trailer (looks like Great Aether) is one of Cloud's Limit Breaks in FFVII.

I don't think Cloud was a ballot character simply because we heard very little in the way of overwhelming popularity regarding him, which he'd need early out of the gate to be this far into development.

That and because there hasn't been one single concrete reference to him being ballot-related. You'd think they'd say if he was. If only to satiate curiosity and prevent people whining about the lack of ballot results.

But we'll probably find out either way next month, so whatever.

Fan polls are unreliable, as they only get the opinions of a small portion of the Smash fandom. Poll results differ site-to-site. Some characters are huge on one site, and a non-entity on another. Tumblr likes Chrom and Daisy (two characters the other communities tend to loathe). Smashboards and GameFAQs like Shantae and Isaac. Miiverse likes Goku and Krystal. Either Reddit or NeoGAF (I forget which at the moment) likes Wonder Red. Putting all that together and adding in the picks of casual fans who don't take part in any major Smash community makes for very different result data than what we've gathered. For all we know, characters like K. Rool aren't the juggernaut our poll results made him appear to be. Shantae, who does well in all fan polls, probably did poorly in the actual ballot, considering she's a complete nobody to anyone who's not at least a somewhat hardcore gamer.

Given that Final Fantasy is one of the biggest franchises in gaming history and Cloud Strife is likely the most famous character within that series, there's a good chance he did quite well. It's not a popularity contest, by the way. It's a suggestions box.

Not to mention Sakurai referred to Cloud's addition as "fulfilling a difficult request". Considering the people making that request isn't very likely to have been Square or Nintendo, it's a safe bet that he's referring to the fans. And that means the ballot.

 

[Arcadenik]

FFI, IV, and VI are on Wii VC, but on Wii U, they're only available in Japan for some reason.

Wouldn't it be nice if they announced Final Fantasy games for the NES, SNES, GBA, and/or DS for the Wii U Virtual Console when Cloud is available?

 

[DoodleDuck97]

Neither of them have anything to do with him being "too technical". You're right.

But they have nothing to do with him being pre-ballot, either. "Ryu is third party and pre-ballot, so Cloud must be, too!" is straw grasping. Their status as "gaming icons" is completely irrelevant, too. Every third party character is a gaming icon, DLC or not.



Limit Breaks are, in a nutshell, just special attacks. In Final Fantasy VII, there's a bar on-screen that fills up gradually when you're attacked. Once it's full, you can use your character's Limit Break. Each character has multiple.

The Omnislash move he uses in the trailer (looks like Great Aether) is one of Cloud's Limit Breaks in FFVII.

Fair Enough I see were you're coming from here Burb.
Either way I can't wait for this Broadcast/ Direct so we can find out about this from the man himself.
I would also like to thank you for explaining to me how the Limit Breaks Work, Much appreciated

 

[TheAnvil]

So I'm going to predict for the December Direct:

-We are infact only getting two characters left.
-One WONT be Wolf (Curses!!!!)
-No more first party characters
-SK could very well be the ballot winner (Still hope this isn't true)
-We will get a M$ rep in some form. (Might not be ballot related)

The Microsoft rep seems like its been in our faces the whole time. Phil Spencer said he would love to use Banjo in Smash. He let Nintendo use jetpac in DK64 on VC. Theres the mysterious Windows logo in Mario Maker. (Seriously, what is this about?!?!?!?)

It might not even be Banjo, but it seems like its a pretty good possibility. Banjo did score very well on the poll regardless, so its possible he could be ballot related. I'm also very confident Cloud is not ballot related.

Hey, no Wolf sucks. Shovel Knight would suck even harder.

But just when I thought your prediction couldn't get any worse... You go and say Banjo-Kazooie.

 

[Fenriraga]

I'm confident Cloud is pre ballot. I still firmly believe they wouldn't have worked on anything ballot related until the polls came to a close, and with how far along Cloud and Midgar are I doubt he came to be within the span of barely a month of work. Plus, Cloud wasn't really much of a top ballot pick anyway. Obviously it's been said time and time again that the Ballot isn't a popularity contest, but considering Cloud hardly showed up ANYWHERE in polls and such, I feel like he wouldn't have been picked from that alone.

"Fulfilling a difficult request" is a little too vauge to understand what he meant. I mean, there WERE people who actually did want Cloud, or at least a Square Enix rep, and considering how picky Square can be I'm not sure ANY character of theirs would have been easy to get. Plus, he still doesn't specifically refer to the ballot or even Cloud himself, so he could be talking about something else he's going to reveal during the stream when it rolls around. A "difficult request" would be a great way to send the last Smash stream out with a bang, after all.

But we just gotta wait and see. :V

 

[TheAnvil]

I personally don't think Cloud is a ballot character because of the timing of the character slots back in April. Cloud is basically 100% one of those slots. Meaning he was planned since April. The ballot didn't even start until April.

In the long run it doesn't really matter. Because we may only get 1 ballot character. The total number of DLC characters will be exactly the same whether or not Cloud was ballot or pre-ballot.

 

[Arcanir]

I personally don't think Cloud is a ballot character because of the timing of the character slots back in April. Cloud is basically 100% one of those slots. Meaning he was planned since April. The ballot didn't even start until April.

In the long run it doesn't really matter. Because we may only get 1 ballot character. The total number of DLC characters will be exactly the same whether or not Cloud was ballot or pre-ballot.

Nothing says that the character slots had to be filled at that time though, they could've been placeholders for future use until they had a character in mind.

 

[Burb]

I personally don't think Cloud is a ballot character because of the timing of the character slots back in April. Cloud is basically 100% one of those slots. Meaning he was planned since April. The ballot didn't even start until April.

In the long run it doesn't really matter. Because we may only get 1 ballot character. The total number of DLC characters will be exactly the same whether or not Cloud was ballot or pre-ballot.

You think the ballot was a spur of the moment type thing?

Just because there were additional slots before it began doesn't completely rule out the possibility of them being slots dedicated specifically to the ballot. The ballot was likely planned all along.

I'm confident Cloud is pre ballot. I still firmly believe they wouldn't have worked on anything ballot related until the polls came to a close, and with how far along Cloud and Midgar are I doubt he came to be within the span of barely a month of work. Plus, Cloud wasn't really much of a top ballot pick anyway. Obviously it's been said time and time again that the Ballot isn't a popularity contest, but considering Cloud hardly showed up ANYWHERE in polls and such, I feel like he wouldn't have been picked from that alone.

Right, a month's worth of work.

Because they couldn't have possibly started on a ballot character before the ballot even finished.

This was viewed as a realistic scenario a few months back.

I"Fulfilling a difficult request" is a little too vauge to understand what he meant. I mean, there WERE people who actually did want Cloud, or at least a Square Enix rep, and considering how picky Square can be I'm not sure ANY character of theirs would have been easy to get. Plus, he still doesn't specifically refer to the ballot or even Cloud himself, so he could be talking about something else he's going to reveal during the stream when it rolls around. A "difficult request" would be a great way to send the last Smash stream out with a bang, after all.

> Cloud is just revealed
> Sakurai says "We fulfilled a difficult request." immediately afterward.
> He's talking about someone who's not Cloud

Doesn't make much sense. It's about as illogical as RogersBase saying "durrrrr the character who gets revealed in the made up Splatoon stream coulda been Shovel Knight!".

Not to mention he asked "What do you think about it?" in the same tweet. If it's not Cloud, why would he be asking the fans what they think? We can't exactly formulate an opinion on a character we don't know the identity of.

 

[AncientTobacco]

The slots shouldn't be taken as a infallible proof of development times or the amount of characters, especially now that Sakurai and co. must be aware that the public knows about them.

The dev team can add them in advance based on their plans on the amount of characters or they can add more whenever they want. Or they can just not add them at all until they release the DLC, it's not like adding placeholders slots to the public release versions is something they have to do.

 

[epicmartin7]

This seems like a crazy idea, but what if all 6 slots are all Pre-Ballot characters? This would mean the recently added seventh one as well as potentially more are influenced from the ballot. Seems far-fetched, but it would be cool nonetheless .

 

[FalKoopa]

I find it hard to believe that Cloud was chosen from the ballot. Considering that he was seen as largely impossible, he simply didn't have that much demand. We would have heard at least something if his ballot demand was that high.

Square Enix asking for Cloud to be included sounds odd too, as they're not so liberal about their IPs. Nintendo/Sakurai asking for Cloud sounds plausible though.

I suppose we won't know until the December direct.

 

[Champ Gold]

I'm still belief that Cloud was kinda both in a situation where he was a highly requested fighter but wasn't influenced by the ballot.

That said I'm still in the belief that we'll get one or two ballot characters.
And it's pretty much this:

• 1 veteran choice
• 1 First Party Character
• 1 Third Party character (AKA )

Also I'm in the belief that Final Fantasy 7 (the original Steam version) might be on the Wii U/3DS as a downloadable title in the near future.

Not any time soon but sometime next year

 

[Fenriraga]

Not to mention he asked "What do you think about it?" in the same tweet. If it's not Cloud, why would he be asking the fans what they think? We can't exactly formulate an opinion on a character we don't know the identity of.

Mmmmm... you got me there. Would be a bit of a silly thing to say if he wasn't talking about Cloud.

I guess it doesn't really matter if he's ballot or not in the grand scheme of things. The ballot was a suggestion box and not gospel, after all, and the characters are gonna be who they're gonna be regardless of if it had influence or not.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

SourceCast #4 will be up today! My favorite episode yet, we discuss Cloud in Smash and the December direct with Ash Paulsen!

When you watch a 2 and a half hour long video expecting your question to be answered and it doesn't.

 

[Fenriraga]

...Thinking about it more, maybe Cloud really WAS only started recently.

I mean, he looks damn far along to be sure, but if he was completely finished I don't see why they'd hold off on releasing him until the stream next month. Plus, no new remixes (and it WILL have one.) in the trailer or anything, or Steve Burton saying he recorded, and I heavily doubt they would not use his English actor for the US release, it'd be way too jaring considering all other characters with multi-language actors have had their regional voices, even to the extent of Sonic having literally every language option from Generations. If they really wanted to, they could have just re used English lines from Dissidia or something for Cloud's trailer, not like he says a whole lot.

...I'm reading too deep into this, but Burb may be on point with this one. I literally go and say it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, then go and over examine it anyway. :V

 

[Z25]

Sakurai posted a Tweet that very strongly suggested that he is.

Fair point, but wasn't it confirmed by @PushDustIn that him saying that referred to his movements?

 

[Shadowwolflink]

There's also the possibility that Cloud was planned as a non-ballot character and Sakurai made that tweet because he saw some ballots that asked for him. That would explain the tweet and the weird fact that there was no mention of the ballot with Cloud's announcement.

 

[Jdaster64]

Tl;dr, My opinion since about a day after the Direct, and a point that surprisingly few people have brought up:

"We fulfilled a difficult request... For more details, I'll explain in the special Smash presentation in December."

If this were all the tweet said, then I would be of the opinion that it's totally vague enough to be referring to another to-be-announced character, rather than Cloud. But the fact that he also said

"What do you think about it?"

is why Cloud pretty much has to have been a ballot request, in my eyes.

Regardless, the notion of a character being "the ballot winner" has always made me cringe, for multiple reasons.

 

[Starlight_Lily]

Oh, you mean this Podcast right here?

Hmm, that's interesting as to why Ash isn't it the Gamexplain analysis videos, guess that means I was wrong about Derek and Andre being evil overlord tyrants that would refuse to let Ash ever take part in them.

Also, my name is supposed to be pronounced blazer, see my user name is actually a misspelling of my usual online handle being Bladezer, you see grammer was neer my strong point, so I forgot the extra e in the name.

And if your thinking, why not just blazer then instead of Bladezer? Cause I like different types of blades, and I don't like fire, plus I don't have powers like Blaze does.

 

[Deleted member]

If Cloud is Ballot, then that proves that fan polls mean jack****
If Cluod isn't Ballot, then that means, uh, I dunno, what does it mean?

 

[Chrono.]

I mean, he looks damn far along to be sure, but if he was completely finished I don't see why they'd hold off on releasing him until the stream next month.

Holding off Cloud makes sense as they'd want to release all the WAVE 5 content at the same time, this is assuming more characters/stages/mii costumes are coming soon (which is a given at this point, otherwise there'd be no reason for a full presentation).

 

[epicmartin7]

So... I wanted to wager my thoughts on when the Smash Presentation may be a there has been a lot of speculation on when it might air.

I thoroughly believe that the presentation will air on December 3rd, 2015. Why you may ask? The Game Awards 2015 will be airing on the exact same day.

If you look at the past presentation (New Content Approaching), it was aired just before the Nintendo World Championships and the Digital Event (which were at E3) in order to hype them up. So, wouldn't it make sense for it to air right before the game awards?

The Smash Presentation could have a really major impact airing as like a pre-show to The Game Awards. It would be like what commentators do to hype up people for an actual sports event. It could really hype up the Game Awards 2015 and kick it off with a bang. Not to mention, Reggie is also the chairman for the event.

So, this is my reasoning it might air on that day. It would just be a smaller event before the big awards show hyping people up for it. Plus others who aren't into Smash too much could tune into it as well.

What do you guys think about it? I think it makes a whole lot of damn sense. It's just a matter of time until we hear about the date though. Fingers crossed I guess .

 

[Fenriraga]

If Cloud is Ballot, then that proves that fan polls mean jack****
If Cluod isn't Ballot, then that means, uh, I dunno, what does it mean?

It means "This is for ruining any and all surprises I've tried to give you all up to this point in my Smash Career, you ungrateful piles of trash."

...or it means nothing at all since the ballot was a suggestion box. :V

 

[A Distant Demon]

All im getting out of this argument is we are arguing a few words with a 140 character limit and what they mean when in reality we have absolutely no clue ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[FinalStarmen]

It's not wrong, but the term "it's not a popularity poll, it's a suggestion box" has been used so often as a counter-argument within this speculation period, it's become almost meme-like in this thread. Whether it's an indictment or not is up to your discretion.

 

[Z25]

I think we should honestly just not care. We will know soon enough if Cloud is or Isn't a ballot character. The Direct can't be to far away and then we will have a lot more conspiracies and things to talk about it.

 

[epicmartin7]

So... here's a strawpoll for you guys.

*Do you think the Smash Presentation will air before The Game Awards 2015 in order to hype it up?

*This means the Smash Presentation will air on the same day as the actual "The Game Awards 2015".

 

[Z25]

So... here's a strawpoll for you guys.

Do you think the Smash Presentation will air before The Game Awards 2015 in order to hype it up?

Needs a " I want to believe option"

 

[Strofirko]

Smash broadcast will be the new cranky kong.

 

[TheAnvil]

Nothing says that the character slots had to be filled at that time though, they could've been placeholders for future use until they had a character in mind.

Sakurai said it takes 6 months to finish a character, and that's probably just for the development side of things. It's going to take a while from a legal standpoint to actually get Cloud in the game. We're in November and Cloud looks finished basically finished already. That would indicate that Cloud was planned since April, at the very least.

Could he be ballot? Sure. But that would mean that Sakurai picked him from the ballot practically the instant it went live.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Man, I was tired.

I took so many naps that I thought it was sunday when I woke up.

Anyway, trying to consume as much Yo-kai watch news as I can. I'm actually a little interested in the merchandise but I'm sad I have to wait until the new year to get english versions. Wanted maybe a couple things for christmas.