Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[Opossum]

The objective is to shoot the ducks for the dog to grab, not partner them up like a makeshift Banjo-Kazooie.

I never argued that it was a bad thing that they were partnered, so bringing up Duck Hunt was unnecessary. I'm merely saying why I, personally, would not mind and even support the idea of a solo Popo. I never claimed it was happening. I merely said that I don't think it's a bad idea, so I don't really understand the whole issue here. :/

 

[Deleted member]

I never argued that it was a bad thing that they were partnered, so bringing up Duck Hunt was unnecessary. I'm merely saying why I, personally, would not mind and even support the idea of a solo Popo. I never claimed it was happening. I merely said that I don't think it's a bad idea, so I don't really understand the whole issue here. :/

You brought up how it's "more accurate".
That is literally the only point I've gone after.


EDIT: Also, I have a counter to the "competitive multiplayer" point.
Outside the Bonus Round, where there is no choice but to compete, players can choose to play co-operatively to reach the end of the stage. It's solely up to the players. And in Smash, they're choosing to play co-operatively.

 

[Z25]

There are a few things that make me think it isn't the movie. I only really put that in there to temper expectations.

After checking my archives, I saw that CoroCoro hasn't spoke about big news in December before so it may be that they're not referring to movie stuff after all.

In addition, for non-movie stuff with people saying "it'll be a spin-off", the fact it says ポケットモンスター rather than ポケモン raises an eyebrow, too.

I see so it's still possible. I don't want to get my hopes up just yet though. For December, does it actually matter if it hasn't had big new that month before? Could it just be the movie talked about in December for the first time? And then, I don't know Japanese but how do those two texts change it's importance?

 

[Deleted member]

Who wants to join my bunker when FE: Fates gets localization changes? I'm kinda scared because the internet will most def explode.

Best they can do is remove the S-Rank special lines from the Amie and add curtains
And maybe change the whole Soleil thing

 

[Champ Gold]

I never argued that it was a bad thing that they were partnered, so bringing up Duck Hunt was unnecessary. I'm merely saying why I, personally, would not mind and even support the idea of a solo Popo. I never claimed it was happening. I merely said that I don't think it's a bad idea, so I don't really understand the whole issue here. :/

Simple

SoPo: Boring, generic moveset from a unpopular retro NES game that was considered bad in most people eyes and doesn't stand out to most people as a single fighter

Ice Climbers: The greatest playstyle idea around, the synchronized tag team playstyle. That one thing & can't and won't ever emulate no matter what.


Any questions?

I don't think they're going to get custom moves anytime soon lol. If previous updates are anything to go with, that is...

Unless we count the Mewtwo "custom move bug" thing.

Roy and Ryu had the same glitch before

 

[Solfiner]

That implies there's a chance they won't.
It's inevitable; like a ticking time bomb.

Underage incest marriage? Nothing being changed here.

 

[Arcanir]

http://strawpoll.me/6010882

A poll about fanservice.


It's late though. I may post it later so that more people see.

When it comes to fanservice, I usually consider these questions:
-Is it too overly present and/or does it show up at any points where it's unnecessary?
-Does it affect the characters in a negative way?
-Does it affect the plot in a negative way?

If it checks off those points, then there's an issue since it's not adding anything to the story and doing more to take away from it and how immersed you feel in it. You don't want to have a character that constantly shoves her boobs in your face because it doesn't add anything for you and just comes off as pointless, so it ends up affecting your experience with the story and characters.

A example of that would be the aforementioned Fates, because the fanservice is completely gratuitous in that game and adds nothing. Granted, some of the features are to the side and you can avoid it if needed, but then we have examples like this:

Spoiler

And yes, that is an ingrained skill for the character, you have to watch her strip every enemy she attacks on her turn. There are also weapons that do the same thing if you have a triangle advantage on the enemy. That is exactly the type of gratuitous fanservice that takes out immersion with the game.

So in Fates case, it's basically fanservice for the sake of it, and that's not a good way to go about it as it can take away how engrossed you get into the story. If it was more managed, then it would be fine, but the way it treats that element just comes off as gaudy and pointless.

However, as mentioned before, if it's done in a way that's not intrusive or even adds to the story and characters, then they managed to add the fanservice well. For a good example of that, there's FMA:B's Lust. She's obviously a character that is going to be used for fanservice, it's practically in her name, but it's done in a way that works for her and the story. She uses her sexuality in a way to suit her own agenda and manipulate the characters around her, so by adding those scenes of sexiness, she adds to the story and characters because she advances the plot and happens in it. She's a contributing force to the story despite having fanservice as a part of her character, not a detraction from it.

So in short, it depends on how it's done, how much it's done, and how it affects how you perceive the story and characters. It's not a strict one way or the other type situation, it's a matter of how you do it.

 

[Substitution]

Oh right the Zygarde.
Yeah I think it looks pretty neat, though I can't help but wonder how it'll do in the metagame. Worse case it'll be Ubers, but looking at Mega Rayquaza...

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Assuming you intended on listing their first fighting game appearances, Cloud was in a PS1 game called Ehrgeiz: God Bless the Ring (yes, that is the full title) prior to Dissidia.

I'm aware, I just thought it made more sense to list Dissidia instead.

 

[Opossum]

You brought up how it's "more accurate".
That is literally the only point I've gone after.

And personally I don't see how it wouldn't be more accurate. Sure, Captain Falcon and Duck Hunt, like you said, take a divergent route from their source material, but that doesn't really change anything about the Ice Climbers. That said, in my opinion, I do think that a solo Climber with half the colors being Popo and half being Nana would be more accurate to the source material. I'm not using that to justify that it should happen. I just see it as more accurate since it harkens back to the competitive nature of their original game, is all.

Simple

SoPo: Boring, generic moveset from a unpopular retro NES game that was considered bad in most people eyes and doesn't stand out to most people as a single fighter

Ice Climbers: The greatest playstyle idea around, the synchronized tag team playstyle. That one thing & can't and won't ever emulate no matter what.


Any questions?

So the issue is that I have a differing opinion, is what you're saying. Good to know.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I wonder what Cloud's poster artwork will look like.

 

[Deleted member]

And personally I don't see how it wouldn't be more accurate. Sure, Captain Falcon and Duck Hunt, like you said, take a divergent route from their source material, but that doesn't really change anything about the Ice Climbers. That said, in my opinion, I do think that a solo Climber with half the colors being Popo and half being Nana would be more accurate to the source material. I'm not using that to justify that it should happen. I just see it as more accurate since it harkens back to the competitive nature of their original game, is all.

Check the edit; I've found a counter to the "competitive" claim.
It's as competitive as the players choose it to be up until the Bonus Round, where there is ONLY competition.

 

[Deleted member]

When it comes to fanservice, I usually consider these questions:
-Is it too overly present and/or does it show up at any points where it's unnecessary?
-Does it affect the characters in a negative way?
-Does it affect the plot in a negative way?

If it checks off those points, then there's an issue since it's not adding anything to the story and doing more to take away from it and how immersed you feel in it. You don't want to have a character that constantly shoves her boobs in your face because it doesn't add anything for you and just comes off as pointless, so it ends up affecting your experience with the story and characters.

A example of that would be the aforementioned Fates, because the fanservice is completely gratuitous in that game and adds nothing. Granted, some of the features are to the side and you can avoid it if needed, but then we have examples like this:

Spoiler

And yes, that is an ingrained skill for the character, you have to watch her strip every enemy she attacks on her turn. There are also weapons that do the same thing if you have a triangle advantage on the enemy. That is exactly the type of gratuitous fanservice that takes out immersion with the game.

So in Fates case, it's basically fanservice for the sake of it, and that's not a good way to go about it as it can take away how engrossed you get into the story. If it was more managed, then it would be fine, but the way it treats that element just comes off as gaudy and pointless.

However, as mentioned before, if it's done in a way that's not intrusive or even adds to the story and characters, then they managed to add the fanservice well. For a good example of that, there's FMA:B's Lust. She's obviously a character that is going to be used for fanservice, it's practically in her name, but it's done in a way that works for her and the story. She uses her sexuality in a way to suit her own agenda and manipulate the characters around her, so by adding those scenes of sexiness, she adds to the story and characters because she advances the plot and happens in it.

So in short, it depends on how it's done, how much it's done, and how it affects how you perceive the story and characters. It's not a strict one way or the other type situation, it's a matter of how you do it.

While I agree with your points, I can't help but like Sophie's skill in Fates
And I think it's merely done for laughs unlike Miss Boobs

 

[Opossum]

Check the edit; I've found a counter to the "competitive" claim.
It's as competitive as the players choose it to be up until the Bonus Round, where there is ONLY competition.

I'll admit I can see that point, yes. I just always considered the bonus round an integral part of the game, hence my insistence on the competition aspect. Blame my fonder memories of the bonus rounds.

 

[Chrono.]

Oh right the Zygarde.
Yeah I think it looks pretty neat, though I can't help but wonder how it'll do in the metagame. Worse case it'll be Ubers, but looking at Mega Rayquaza...

>GameFreak
>Balance

Choose one

 

[Frostwraith]

Who wants to join my bunker when FE: Fates gets localization changes? I'm kinda scared because the internet will most def explode.

There will be such changes. Make no mistake about it.

There will be changes and there will be salt to go along with them.

In regards to the subject @GoldenYuiitusin is talking about, Sakurai has stated he does take creative/artistic liberties whenever necessary for gameplay or development purposes.

It's why we have things such as:
- Robin using Nosferatu without being a Dark Mage
- Lucas and Ness use PSI attacks belonging to their party members
- Fox and Falco's Reflector and Fire Fox/Bird moves (the reflector doesn't exist nor do they show the ability to light themselves on fire)
- Captain Falcon's fiery abilities
- Sheik's needles, chain and, in Smash 4, grenade
- Zero Suit Samus's jet heels and whip

Basically, those help add more variety to the characters' move pools without deviating too much from source material. It helps filling the necessary amount of moves every character requires.

Jab, 3 tilts, dash attack, 3 Smash attacks, 5 aerials, grab, pummel, 4 throws, ledge attack, 3 floor get-up attacks, 4 special moves and 1 Final Smash result in a total of 28 maneuvers.

In order to fill those moves, you can't just restrict to moves/motions taken directly from the source games.

 

[Substitution]

>GameFreak
>Balance

Choose one

...Can I take a third option?

 

[aldelaro5]

Ok so both German lper of Paper Jam released one video each and I will be spoiling this one because it;s some neat cutscenes

Anyway, if you still want to watch the video, here';s the playlists:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLclj7cdNufowU2AATjXJStBa1eF1weNrZ

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCsyxsclg_0FvwG9PJ-Bkf5KNo2imlulh

Let's start

Spoiler: paper jam without printers

For the first video (which is less advanced than the other lp), we got that peach's castle has 2 counters, on the left where nabbit steals stuff, it's unknown, but my guess is one of these lakitu thing. Also, there\s a door where you can hear voices, you can't go in for now.

The other coutner is ont he right and this is interesting because it shows how they merged the cards shop with the other items and gears shops. You can't us the card shop for now btw. Oh, and about items and gears, it is EXACTLY the same as DT. UI and system, it really is the same.

After, the rest was covered by the other lp, that one is less advanced, but we know this one will upload tomorrow so basically let's wait


Second video is really the interesting part because that part is new. Well not this much, but this si the part where you egt paper mario which really was soemthign I was waiting. Anyway, we see the map with the crack that we saw at E3 and again, it has drastically changed since, there's a cs where a goomba chase a paper toad, he finds the crack and go through it. The brothers arrive and there's a cutscene where luigi tries to.......go through? As dumb as it sounds, he realises it quickly by getting stuck and having mario to help him get out.

Ok, now this is where it starts to become interesting. You meet a bunch of paper goomba and you go into a fight in which they do........the attack from SS in whcih they form a wheel with a scooter engine noise. To me, it;s fine, the attack itself, I had no problem, SS I had problem with the stickers and run mechanic. Actually, here, you do mash a and b to run which you can suceed and if so, the brothers are happy, but the wheel comes back and knocks them both out. Starlow is possibly freaking out as there;s some dialogs and THIS IS WHERE IT HAPPENS!

Before I describe it with words, I just want to say I REALLY LOVE his entrance

He falls slowly on the ground near the paper goombas and before he lands, he spins several time and lands (watrch the video it;s really stylish! ). Then he......sort of grab the paper goombas? Ok, imagine him grabbing a sticker in SS, except here he only does the grabbing motion and then the paper goombas tries to get him off which after soem movement he manages to. Paper Mario falls near the knocked out brothers and then the paper goombas are abotu to jump on him (cause he LOOKS faint), but at the last momeent, he jumps thus attacking the goombas. Then, he sort of spin (it does remind me of pm64 btw) several times before jumping normally and then you see the orange star popping out around him and as soon as this happens, the main battle theme we heard at E3 replaces the superstar saga remix. So this confirms that the superstar saga music is ONLY when you are in duo withotu paper mario.

Anyway, after this, some dialogs with starlow and this is when he gives paper mario the copy block. Following that there's some HEA VY tutorial. I thought it could have been better than DT, but unfortunately, it's as heavy as DT is

After the fight (because it's a paper mario only fight with tutorials), This si where the cs where saw at E3 happened (the one I was freaking out and print screened where he asks to be called paper mario) with basically a text saying he joined your party and some minimal dialogs. The only thing to note is you don;'t get the dash socks right away so this means that yes......for a temporarilly amount of time, you will have to press A + B + Y to do jumps........but this should be brief tbh.

That's all

Ok, now the spoilerless version because I really want to talk about this entrance cutscene.

It just to me perfectly suits Paper Mario. Like to me, he already has more personality than SS could ever show to him. SS, true, it had a lot of new animations, but they never were coordinated this much to give a big impact on his quirkiness and his confidence of doing things in a stylish way. They kinda do that, but it;s not something that would be like OMG THE TTYD STYLISH ARE TOO GOOD I HAVE TO DO IT WITH SP FULL kind of impact or the spm I have to shake my freaking wii mote all over the place. No, they were just there and didn't make you react.

This entrance however, I am telling you, most people would react especially because at this point in the game, you are looking forward to it. To have a VERY deep pm64 reference, have an SS reference and still maintain how he just want to do stuff with stylish and be quirky about it to me is a step in the right direction. It might be a very small details, but to me it;s certainly a notable one because think about this: they could have introduced him in so many ways possible, they had the perfect setup with a loosing fight for the brothers, and they choose to do this much animations in this form and only this one: there was a logic behind it.

the best is that if you never played a paper mario game before, it;s so obvious how he does stuff and the way the game is made is they really have to enhance his personality because the mario is sitting at 10 centimetres from him, they have to differentiate them which just happens to be easy here because paper mario already got a distinct personality.

Now about that pm64 refferences, they clearly knew that specific refference woudl make an impact because out of all the moves he had specific from that game, this would have been the only one possible to refference in that way. It's seen so much in the game, even its sfx is memorable with how much it's known, it was jsut the perfect choices.

The reason I gush so mcuh on this is because it gives me hopes that this game portrays paper mario MUCH better than SS, heck, it already did in my eyes. Like, I noticed throughout the game, there's a lot of cs, little things, but there's just a lot, I know not much of the writting so far, but this still points to ahve potentials.

Which brings me to my conclusion: it might not matter that the npc are generic. No really, why would it matter actually considering they would still make the paper mario aspect NOT generic? i mean, think about this, you have paper mario the entire game and we know he would show his personality as seen in his entrance, why do you need more actually? SS problems was worse than this, SS overdid the paper puns (which this game seems to do moderately) and the npc really were almost absent while this game has more presence and the best, Paper Mario in SS was........kind of not present enough while paper jam just, you get the idea.

Not to mention that having both sides even for bowser, boeser jr and kamek actually talk and interacts........that is a lot more than SS so again, what exactly woudl be this bad if the npc are too generic? if you have enough writting and it's showing the main characters personality, why do you really need more?

Sure it helps, but i don;t feel it would be mandatory.

Also, I know a lot of people complained about DT that it was too bland in mechanic.....which i still question btw seriously, how DT was bad? anyway, well to me this game sounds like this: Take DT, add paper mario mechanic and universe to everything of the game. And I really mean everything, from maps to writting everything. What this does is it expands a lot mroe the actuall mechanic of the game in the first place. I saw a crazy lots of cards not even counting the amibo one and the trio form of attacks.....to me might jsut gives enough strategy option to compensate the ONE complain I had against m&l, the lack of strategy options compared to the reflex requirements.

So, my guess is this: I wil watch more footage and continue to tell my opinion on this logic (spoilerless as much as I can), but to me, this seems liek the kidn of game that you might have to give it a chance before.

 

[Soul.]

The Smogon meta is so boring. Doubles is better imo.

Roy and Ryu had the same glitch before

They did? Uh. What the hell.

 

[Solfiner]

I wonder what Cloud's poster artwork will look like.

I want it in the FF7 style, that would look awesome

 

[BluePikmin11]

BluePikmin11
So I'm watching the sub version of Youkai watch.

Does it bother you as much as it bothers me these subbers translated Youkai into ghosts?

Not at all. Which episode are you on?

 

[Frostwraith]

Just read Arcanir 's post about fanservice... And there is seriously a skill in FE Fates to strip the enemies when attacking them?

What the bloody ****. Yeah, this is gratuitous garbage and does kill the immersion of the game since its story is supposed to be about the war between two kingdoms. I remember FE Radiant Dawn took the themes of war seriously but this new game just turns it into a joke.

Anything for the otaku pandering, it seems, including the downplaying of supposedly serious themes.

 

[Champ Gold]

They did? Uh. What the hell.

Look it up, Roy's Custom Side-B can almost KOat the first string and can help him float.

And Ryu had the same head shrinking glitch Mewtwo had.

 

[Deleted member]

I just found out I have more money than I thought
Which is enough for me to buy XCX, Fates, the next Smash DLC wave and Pokemon RBY
Finding money you didn't know you had is a great feeling

Just read Arcanir 's post about fanservice... And there is seriously a skill in FE Fates to strip the enemies when attacking them?

What the bloody ****. Yeah, this is gratuitous garbage and does kill the immersion of the game since its story is supposed to be about the war between two kingdoms. I remember FE Radiant Dawn took the themes of war seriously but this new game just turns it into a joke.

Anything for the otaku pandering, it seems, including the downplaying of supposedly serious themes.

Am I the only one here that thinks that skill is supposed to be funny more than anything?

 

[Solfiner]

Btw, Derrick from Gamexplain confirmed that the changes he pointed out in X were the only ones he could find in 40 hours. I think it's safe to assume that the whole "they're gonna censor everything" BS can die down now.

 

[Substitution]

Am I the only one here that thinks that skill is supposed to be funny more than anything?

While I'm sure that was most likely the intention, it still feels out of place in a game like Fire Emblem.

 

[Opossum]

I got pretty lucky with my free play in Badge Arcade today.

I'd say it's a work in progress, but I'm just glad I got that last-minute save.

 

[Chrono.]

I want it in the FF7 style, that would look awesome

It'd be interesting to see Nomura go back to his older style for sure...

 

[Deleted member]

While I'm sure that was most likely the intention, it still feels out of place in a game like Fire Emblem.

I mean, that's what makes it funny

 

[Arcanir]

While I agree with your points, I can't help but like Sophie's skill in Fates
And I think it's merely done for laughs unlike Miss Boobs

I can see that point of view, but the thing is even if that's the case, it still breaks immersion of the game. If you're playing with that character, you have to experience her breaking off the clothes of enemies constantly in what should be a serious battle, and it's not something you can change or avoid as it's ingrained into her skillset. So regardless of whether it's forced fanservice or a joke, immersion breaking will be a factor either way since you are stripping characters in a warzone and it feels completely out of place.

Edit: 'd

 

[SmashChu]

Nintendo characters can always be added into the next game. Especially as we are arguably coming down to the 'less of a Nintendo icon and just additional representational for the sake of having it' level with Nintendo characters, 3Rd parties are a great way to keep the hype going (but I've already stated that in my response to you previously!)

It makes sense to focus on 3Rd parties for DLC for a a number of reasons.
Contracts are easier, splitting revenue is easier and they can bring in new customers.

Making a character like 9-Volt for DLC: Who would that appeal to? People who own the game and honestly would probably buy any DLC they throw out.

3Rd parties bring people to the table, even if you don't like it personally. We are the base, but we don't represent the majority of the fanbase.

I seriously doubt most of the 7 million people that bought Smash care about the sanctity of Smash and it being a Nintendo only crossover.

Anyway we can debate this later .

PushDustin, are you hinting at something for the SourceGaming fans out there?

 

[DoodleDuck97]

The objective is to shoot the ducks for the dog to grab, not partner them up like a makeshift Banjo-Kazooie.

This scares me in particular.

 

[Khoru]

i just remembered that one slowbro moveset that allowed people to infinitely stall

 

[Ivander]

Am I the only one here that thinks that skill is supposed to be funny more than anything?

I also think it was meant to be funny, considering the skill is called "Clumsy" IIRC. Also, we wouldn't have this if it weren't for it.

Spoiler

 

[Frostwraith]

Am I the only one here that thinks that skill is supposed to be funny more than anything?

I must admit it is kind of funny, but it's stupid nonetheless given the context.

It's a game supposed to be about war and the story is supposed to be taken seriously given those themes.

Of course, there are humorous moments as well, especially for support conversations. That has been a part of the series.

However, a character striking down an enemy soldier, in the middle of the battlefield where anyone can die, and said enemy is stripped almost naked... Well, it's stupid and trivializes the seriousness of the story and its themes of warfare (AKA the core of the FE series since its inception).

And all of it for what? To pander to an audience that doesn't care about the story in the first place?

This is why otakus are ruining anime/manga/Japanese video games. They don't care about the characters and story for what they're meant to represent. The creators can just shove this kind of gratuitous crap to have an audience, though they end up alienating people that want the serious story the game is supposed to have.

 

[Z25]

I got pretty lucky with my free play in Badge Arcade today.

I'd say it's a work in progress, but I'm just glad I got that last-minute save.

Nice! I've been working on all of them, as I see the badges coming back eventually.
And lol at the only comment on there

The Smogon meta is so boring. Doubles is better imo.

They did? Uh. What the hell.

That's why I only play doubles.

 

[Kenith]

I hate the fanservice in FE Fates, but that skill is so ridiculous I can't really take offense to it.
At least she doesn't recruit enemies by rubbing their faces.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I fail to see how fanservice breaks the immersion in a game but spiky haired protagonists wielding impossibly large swords and casting magic spells doesn't. It's a fictional land where impossible things are possible, but a little bit of skin is still wrong.

Xenoblade is still my favorite RPG and I was really feeling it regardless of what armour the characters were wearing.

 

[Dravidian]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

That's it, Pixar confirmed best movie studio yet again

They didnt bring it to her on Blu-ray....
cheapskates.

But seriously, if that's true, then that was pretty nice of them.

 

[Opossum]

They didnt bring it to her on Blu-ray....
cheapskates.

But seriously, if that's true, then that was pretty nice of them.

It is true. It was basically all over the news back in '08 or '09 when the movie came out.