Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[Ura]

Define "big".

Any Nintendo series that's sold in the million range. Obviously a the term "big" can be interpreted differently but if a series has sold in the million range I see no reason for said series to not have playable representation in Smash Bros. Advance Wars, Rhythm Heaven, and Golden Sun all fit this mold and i'm probably missing a bunch of other series as well. More so AW which still has a "future" which Sakurai said is important as Intelligent Systems stated that their always thinking about the next Advance Wars game. "Future" at certain times doesn't even have to be that much of a factor if Geno was considered for 2 Smash games straight.

"Obscure" series would be something like Codename S.T.E.A.M. which did a lousy 100,000-200,000 units worldwide.

How many can the average gamer recognize? I swear to Mayneth if you saw Andy...

Same deal with Marth pre-Melee. I don't think anyone recognized him pre-Melee or even when they first saw him in Melee. The Wars series had the same amount of relevancy as FE before Awakening.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

So what you're telling me is,

Goku's gonna get into Smash? Whoever thinks Goku should not get into smash is a doodie pie. Lemme to ask my dad to put Goku in Smash, he works at Nintendo.

This would be funny is Sakurai didn't laugh at the idea of him or Spongebob being in Smash. This legit happened in a NicoNico interview with him and Takamaru's voice actor (Tomokazu Sugita). Too bad someone took it down last year.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Any Nintendo series that's sold in the million range. Obviously a the therm "big" can be interpreted differently but if a series has sold in the million range I see no reason for said series to not have playable representation in Smash Bros. Advance Wars, Rhythm Heaven, and Golden Sun all fit this mold and i'm probably missing a bunch of other series as well. More so AW which still has a "future" which Sakurai said is important as Intelligent Systems stated that their always thinking about the next Advance Wars game. "Future" at certain times doesn't even have to be that much of a factor if Geno was considered for 2 Smash games straight.

"Obscure" series would be something like Codename S.T.E.A.M. which did a lousy 100,000-200,000 units worldwide.

To be fair, a company saying "we're thinking about the future of X" doesn't mean much. Ubisoft said Rayman Origin's sales would impact the future of BGAE, Konami said they'd give MG a good future regardless of their pachinko stuff, etc.

 

[ChikoLad]

I honestly really hate when people keep saying this. That's absolutely not true at all. There's so many "big" Nintendo series that deserve playable representation that haven't got that representation. Can think of 3 off the top of my head right now.

Golden Sun, Advance Wars, and Rhythm Heaven are not that big (those are usually the ones people bring up).

I'm not saying they shouldn't have reps. But they shouldn't be the main course of a new Smash.

The series doesn't NEED more characters. It will get some, but I feel it should not be the primary focus going forward. That's why I think revamping some clones could be a good idea.

 

[Red & Green]

This would be funny is Sakurai didn't laugh at the idea of him or Spongebob being in Smash. This legit happened in a NicoNico interview with him and Takamaru's voice actor (Tomokazu Sugita). Too bad someone took it down last year.

Oh, wow... I think I remember reading about that, actually. Huh. Smash really has taken its toll on Sakurai. Wonder how he's doing now, though.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

"Muh relevance", "muh popularity", "muh sales".

This in a nutshell.

Pichu fits the bill for all three easily.

Too bad the little fella will never return in a future Smash title (At least still having my copy of Melee curbs the pain. )

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Pichu fits the bill for all three easily.

Too bad the little fella will never return in a future Smash title (At least still having my copy of Melee curbs the pain. )

We're talking about franchises. Pichu IS popular though.
Also 'curbs the pain' lel

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Oh he's obviously pointing at New Super Nabbit U.
What do you mean it's Luigi's game?
Nabbit debuted in it so Nabbit is the only feasible rep for this instant classic.
And yes, Super Nabbit U is a series because I count Mario game of the same genre as NSNU because those only exist because of Nabbit's game.

Or he means Super Daisy Land.
Again, Mario can't rep it even if he brought his superballs :4donkeykong: to the fray because we need Daisy for that.
You know WarioWare? Yeah, that's all because of Daisy.
Because after SML (Where Daisy played a giant role and is the actual star of the game) there was SML2 and Wario Land and the popularity of that game resulted in WarioWare.
So Daisy ABSOLUTELY DIRECTLY caused WarioWare.
INSTANT SMASH CHARACTER.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN "SML IS MARIO'S GAME?"
IT'S DAISY'S

Sorry, my PGDSD (Post-Geno Debate Stress Syndrome) is kicking in.
Makes me say silly things.
Silly me.
Totally not serious.
Ever.
Nope.

Oh and yeah, let's add more Mario because it's the only big series because I showed my mom some pictures and she only recognised Mario and since she's a non-gamer she's part of the Super Non-Gamer Squad that defines who the All-Star Shoo-Ins are.

Mario is the only choice.
The rest is obscure Poochy Poo

 

[Red & Green]

We're talking about franchises. Pichu IS popular though.
Also 'curbs the pain' lel

If there was one character I wish came back to Smash, it would honestly be Pichu. I mean, it was definitely an interesting idea, damage for attacks. Just done in a very, very, very, VERY poorly executed way.

I feel like he'd change a LOT if he were to come back.

 

[Ura]

To be fair, a company saying "we're thinking about the future of X" doesn't mean much. Ubisoft said Rayman Origin's sales would impact the future of BGAE, Konami said they'd give MG a good future regardless of their pachinko stuff, etc.

Yeah but the fact that even after the massive success Awakening had for the FE series IS still stated they were thinking about AW is enough for the series to not be written off as not having a future like the Mother series does.

Golden Sun, Advance Wars, and Rhythm Heaven are not that big (those are usually the ones people bring up).

I'm not saying they shouldn't have reps. But they shouldn't be the main course of a new Smash.

The series doesn't NEED more characters. It will get some, but I feel it should not be the primary focus going forward. That's why I think revamping some clones could be a good idea.

Maybe not as big as Splatoon but their certainly big in their own rights. All 3 series have broke the million mark in terms of sales. To make a comparison, Kid Icarus only has a combined 5M sales where GS is almost like 4M.

They shouldn't be the "main course" of Smash Bros yes and I honestly don't expect multiple reps for those series but their big enough to warrant at least one rep for their series.

 

[Zzuxon]

Define "big".

Spoiler

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah but the fact that even after the massive success Awakening had for the FE series IS still stated they were thinking about AW is enough for the series to not be written off as not having a future like the Mother series does.

Maybe not as big as Splatoon but their certainly big in their own rights. All 3 series have broke the million mark in terms of sales. To make a comparison, Kid Icarus only has a combined 5M sales where GS is almost like 4M.

They shouldn't be the "main course" of Smash Bros yes and I honestly don't expect multiple reps for those series but their big enough to warrant at least one rep for their series.

Awakening was about 3 years old. They had plenty of time to bring AW back. Saying "We're thinking about it's future" doesn't mean ****. And Rhythm Heaven isn't a 'big' franchise that NEEDS reps as last time I checked, the west only know about it because of memes and the Gematsu leak. GS is still very niche too and hasn't had that many games sadly

 

[Schnee117]

@CephalonServer He should have things good to go by next week ;). Getting over a cold or something.

— Killer Instinct (@KillerInstinct) May 4, 2016

Next week for Gargos getting a proper reveal/tease then.

Spoiler

"You're a big guy"
"For you"
AKA
Defining most Smash arguments where "x is big enough for y" is the theme. Which is almost all the time.
Also "something something no image only posts something something"

 

[ChikoLad]

Yeah but the fact that even after the massive success Awakening had for the FE series IS still stated they were thinking about AW is enough for the series to not be written off as not having a future like the Mother series does.

Maybe not as big as Splatoon but their certainly big in their own rights. All 3 series have broke the million mark in terms of sales. To make a comparison, Kid Icarus only has a combined 5M sales where GS is almost like 4M.

They shouldn't be the "main course" of Smash Bros yes and I honestly don't expect multiple reps for those series but their big enough to warrant at least one rep for their series.

I'm sorry but KI is hardly a big franchise either. If the franchises don't even beat that then they definitely are not big.

I just can't comfortably say two franchises that have been dormant for years, and another that struggles to get localised, are big.

Granted, I hope people realise that when I made my comment about how I think Smash NX should focus on revamping clones if they do anything with characters, I made that in the context that Smash NX is an updated port of the Wii U game, as that was what people were talking about at the time. I sincerely think that if there is an NX port of the current Smash, we really need no more than 2 or 3 new characters, if even that. I think the port should focus on adding other kinds of content, like modes that went missing in this iteration of Smash.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Pichu fits the bill for all three easily.

Too bad the little fella will never return in a future Smash title (At least still having my copy of Melee curbs the pain. )

Pichu will always be super-dupity low priority because of the negative reception he had in the past. And assuming the PraMai thing isn't the random select, he would have been fully replaced by Plusle & Minum. Not to mention competition with Pokemon from future games like the counties Pokemon requests out there ().

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Pichu will always be super-dupity low priority because of the negative reception he had in the past. And assuming the PraMai thing isn't the random select, he would have been fully replaced by Plusle & Minum. Not to mention competition with Pokemon from future games like the counties Pokemon requests out there ().

Eeeewwww get that localized Treehouse Sophie line out of my face.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Eeeewwww get that localized Treehouse Sophie line out of my face.

B-b-but chicken grease.

 

[Ura]

Awakening was about 3 years old. They had plenty of time to bring AW back. Saying "We're thinking about it's future" doesn't mean ****. And Rhythm Heaven isn't a 'big' franchise that NEEDS reps as last time I checked, the west only know about it because of memes and the Gematsu leak. GS is still very niche too and hasn't had that many games sadly

This was back in E3 2014 so it's not a long time ago since the comment was made. RH i'm not really a big supporter of but the argument is there for it's representation, even potentially having a playable character at one point. GS is absolutely deserving of representation like Xenoblade was though for that series it's future is in question. Still, if Geno was considered I don't see the big problem of Isaac getting in. At least GS had it's latest entry in this decade.

I'm sorry but KI is hardly a big franchise either. If the franchises don't even beat that then they definitely are not big.

I just can't comfortably say two franchises that have been dormant for years, and another that struggles to get localised, are big.

Granted, I hope people realise that when I made my comment about how I think Smash NX should focus on revamping clones if they do anything with characters, I made that in the context that Smash NX is an updated port of the Wii U game, as that was what people were talking about at the time. I sincerely think that if there is an NX port of the current Smash, we really need no more than 2 or 3 new characters, if even that. I think the port should focus on adding other kinds of content, like modes that went missing in this iteration of Smash.

KI is a series that sold 5M units and had it's character reveal at E3 2014 of all places and was the segment that closed off the Digital Event. Of course that might have been Sakurai's doing and stuff but that still means something. For a series to sell a million copies they have to be noteworthy enough to warrant playable representation. That's where i'm getting at.

I don't even expect Smash NX to add anything really as much as I want it to. I fully expect it to be an upscaled Smash Wii U with the IC's added in with some 3DS stages and game modes added in with noting more. A fully fledged new Smash game wouldn't come out until 2019 or 2020 probably.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

This was back in E3 2014 so it's not a long time ago since the comment was made. RH i'm not really a big supporter of but the argument is there for it's representation, even potentially having a playable character at one point. GS is absolutely deserving of representation like Xenoblade was though for that series it's future is in question. Still, if Geno was considered I don't see the big problem of Isaac getting in. At least GS had it's latest entry in this decade.

KI is a series that sold 5M units and had it's character reveal at E3 2014 of all places and was the segment that closed off the Digital Event. Of course that might have been Sakurai's doing and stuff but that still means something. For a series to sell a million copies they have to be noteworthy enough to warrant playable representation. That's where i'm getting at.

I don't even expect Smash NX to add anything really as much as I want it to. I fully expect it to be an upscaled Smash Wii U with the IC's added in with some 3DS stages and game modes added in with noting more. A fully fledged new Smash game wouldn't come out until 2019 or 2020 probably.

Again, saying "we're thinking about the future" means jack****. I KNOW RH can get representation. But that's not the argument! GS sorta died out from everyone's memory, Xenoblade had project Rainfall. Large difference. Again, the argument isn't whether it's possible, but whether it's big and noteworthy, which doesn't fit Geno either

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Rythm Heaven was big enough to hog the Warioware team so I'd say they're due for some more smash reps.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Rythm Heaven was big enough to hog the Warioware team so I'd say they're due for some more smash reps.

I thought RH was made by those guys

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Eeeewwww get that localized Treehouse Sophie line out of my face.

Bu..but some Treehouse localization is good...

Just like how Tsubasa gets to dress like a ghetto R&B singer (complete with the turned cap) in the English versions of Tokyo Mirage Sessions.

 

[Opossum]

Of those three franchises I'd argue Rhythm Heaven would (or should, depending on how you look at it) be the biggest priority, not only due to what happened in Smash this time around, but also that it'd represent an entire genre of games (rhythm games) that have no characters in Smash so far. Honestly I think that'd pretty important.

Though at the same time I really think Splatoon's the only series that seems like it's weird for not having characters in Smash, if that makes sense.

 

[ChikoLad]

This was back in E3 2014 so it's not a long time ago since the comment was made. RH i'm not really a big supporter of but the argument is there for it's representation, even potentially having a playable character at one point. GS is absolutely deserving of representation like Xenoblade was though for that series it's future is in question. Still, if Geno was considered I don't see the big problem of Isaac getting in. At least GS had it's latest entry in this decade.

KI is a series that sold 5M units and had it's character reveal at E3 2014 of all places and was the segment that closed off the Digital Event. Of course that might have been Sakurai's doing and stuff but that still means something. For a series to sell a million copies they have to be noteworthy enough to warrant playable representation. That's where i'm getting at.

I don't even expect Smash NX to add anything really as much as I want it to. I fully expect it to be an upscaled Smash Wii U with the IC's added in with some 3DS stages and game modes added in with noting more. A fully fledged new Smash game wouldn't come out until 2019 or 2020 probably.

Palutena being shown at E3 had nothing to do with KI being a big franchise or Palutena being the most popular Nintendo waifu or something.

It had everything to do with the fact her trailer was animated by Studio Shaft.

 

[Z25]

I was just watching aDrive's stream and the funniest thing happened.

Someone donated named Hilary Clinton, and the message was that they got an Shiny groudon after 2 srs in OR. And aDrive went:

"Classic Hilary Fashion! Lying to the public's face!"

I was laughing so much lmao.


And I'm starting to use pokemon hacking tools to make my own game. Let's see where it goes from here lol.

 

[Schnee117]

This was back in E3 2014 so it's not a long time ago since the comment was made. RH i'm not really a big supporter of but the argument is there for it's representation, even potentially having a playable character at one point. GS is absolutely deserving of representation like Xenoblade was though for that series it's future is in question. Still, if Geno was considered I don't see the big problem of Isaac getting in. At least GS had it's latest entry in this decade.

Sakurai also considered James Bond, a non-video game character.
"Consideration" isn't a good argument.
"X is deserving" is also entirely subjective.

KI is a series that sold 5M units and had it's character reveal at E3 2014 of all places and was the segment that closed off the Digital Event. Of course that might have been Sakurai's doing and stuff but that still means something.

Here's what it means:

Spoiler

It's freaking Smash. That's why it ended (and started) the Digital Event.

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

Palutena being shown at E3 had nothing to do with KI being a big franchise or Palutena being the most popular Nintendo waifu or something.

It had everything to do with the fact her trailer was animated by BONES.

It was actually animated by Studio Shaft.
Still, your point stands.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Bu..but some Treehouse localization is good...

Just like how Tsubasa gets to dress like a ghetto R&B singer (complete with the turned cap) in the English versions of Tokyo Mirage Sessions.

Nope, that ain't ghetto enough. She would need to be more "showy", twerk more often, flaunt her best features, more suggestive licking, fantasize about touching the sexiest bloke, and say ***** like she's on her period.

Then we have ourselves a truly ghetto R&B star like Little Kim and Nikki Minaj.

 

[Opossum]

Sakurai also considered James Bond, a non-video game character.
"Consideration" isn't a good argument.
"X is deserving" is also entirely subjective.



Here's what it means:

Spoiler

It's freaking Smash. That's why it ended (and started) the Digital Event.

All this Civil War hype and there you are themed to The Killing Joke.

Just an observation I found funny.

 

[ChikoLad]

It was actually animated by Studio Shaft.
Still, your point stands.

Derp, I always confuse the two for some reason. >.>

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Nope, that ain't ghetto enough. She would need to be more "showy", twerk more often, flaunt her best features, more suggestive licking, fantasize about touching the sexiest bloke, and say ***** like she's on her period.

Then we have ourselves a truly ghetto R&B star like Little Kim and Nikki Minaj.

Pretty much the R&B music industry in a nutshell.

I hope that localized Tsubasa costume become a meme so more rapping videos or jokes come from it.

 

[Schnee117]

All this Civil War hype and there you are themed to The Killing Joke.

Just an observation I found funny.

Funnily enough I nearly opted to wear my Killing Joke shirt when I went to see Civil War because my only Marvel shirt is a Ghost Rider one which is too small for me now.

 

[Ura]

Again, saying "we're thinking about the future" means jack****. I KNOW RH can get representation. But that's not the argument! GS sorta died out from everyone's memory, Xenoblade had project Rainfall. Large difference. Again, the argument isn't whether it's possible, but whether it's big and noteworthy, which doesn't fit Geno either

How does it not mean anything? The producer of IS comes out and tells people "hey we're always thinking about new installments of Fire Emblem and Advance Wars but unfortunately we can't reveal any new details of the game". That sounds pretty clear to me that the company has the series in mind and it's not a dead cause. If there wasn't any hope he wouldn't have even mentioned it at all which would be the very corporate thing to do with a series that's all but done. This is all notwithstanding the fact that Days of Ruin got a Japanese release in 2013. RH was almost playable in this iteration of Smash Bros, that's all that needs to be said about the series whether or not it's "big" (even though IMO it is given it's sales).

None of that criteria fits Geno yes but Sakurai came out and said he wanted to put Geno in Smash Bros for 2 games straight. Relevancy doesn't have to be the be all end all for a character selection. Especially if GS4 ever see's the light of day. As for GS being big and noteworthy, GS was a staple of the GBA era and Isaac is heavily requested by fans all across the world so GS is defiantly "noteworthy". Also GS never died from people's memory for people to still want another GS game.

Sakurai also considered James Bond, a non-video game character.
"Consideration" isn't a good argument.
"X is deserving" is also entirely subjective.

Bond is a whole different beast all together. A non-video game character as you previously mentioned. Sakurai came out and stated that he wanted Geno in for 2 Smash Bros games which speaks volumes for the character as well as the notion of a character being hampered by relevancy. I would argue that series as good as GS and AW are absolutely deserving of representation that have all been critically acclaimed.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

How does it not mean anything? The producer of IS comes out and tells people "hey we're always thinking about new installments of Fire Emblem and Advance Wars but unfortunately we can't reveal any new details of the game". That sounds pretty clear to me that the company has the series in mind and it's not a dead cause. If there wasn't any hope he wouldn't have even mentioned it at all which would be the very corporate thing to do with a series that's all but done. This is all notwithstanding the fact that Days of Ruin got a Japanese release in 2013. RH was almost playable in this iteration of Smash Bros, that's all that needs to be said about the series whether or not it's "big" (even though IMO it is given it's sales).

None of that criteria fits Geno yes but Sakurai came out and said he wanted to put Geno in Smash Bros for 2 games straight. Relevancy doesn't have to be the be all end all for a character selection. Especially if GS4 ever see's the light of day. As for GS being big and noteworthy, GS was a staple of the GBA era and Isaac is heavily requested by fans all across the world so GS is defiantly "noteworthy". Also GS never died from people's memory for people to still want another GS game.

Bond is a whole different beast all together. A non-video game character as you previously mentioned. Sakurai came out and stated that he wanted Geno in for 2 Smash Bros games which speaks volumes for the character as well as the notion of a character being hampered by relevancy.

Konami said Metal Gear wouldn't get a Pachinko machine. Look at a trademark they filed a while ago
Earthbound was available for Europe only recently, so Paula has a decent shot next time, right? 'RH was almost playable' is bull****. Hanonbow and RH have almost identical representation in Smash 4's files
Relevance doesn't matter in the slightest, which is why Takamaru got scrapped twice. Doesn't mean **** for Geno 'Isaac was heavily requested' Outside of fan polls, source? I love GS too but it's not as important as you're making it out.
Sakurai ONLY said guns were an issue with Bond iirc, he could have easily just said copyright and ****. Again, Takamaru was considered for 2 games

 

[Schnee117]

Sakurai ONLY said guns were an issue with Bond iirc, he could have easily just said copyright and ****. Again, Takamaru was considered for 2 games

Bond would have loads of legal copyright related issues unless Sakurai got the go ahead to make his own generic version of Bond. Even then there's still plenty of legal BS to deal with. It'd just be less than if he wanted to get a Bond from any particular film. Think of how problematic that'd be between entries.
Melee - Pierce Brosnan
Brawl and SSB4 - Daniel Craig (you'd still have to get the go ahead to use Craig's likeness)
Next Smash - Whoever takes over from Daniel Craig (in the event he's replaced by then)

It's just easier to say "guns" and "adult reasons."

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Bond would have loads of legal copyright related issues unless Sakurai got the go ahead to make his own generic version of Bond. Even then there's still plenty of legal BS to deal with. It'd just be less than if he wanted to get a Bond from any particular film. Think of how problematic that'd be between entries.
Melee - Pierce Brosnan
Brawl and SSB4 - Daniel Craig (you'd still have to get the go ahead to use Craig's likeness)
Next Smash - Whoever takes over from Daniel Craig (in the event he's replaced by then)

It's just easier to say "guns" and "adult reasons."

True, but the first thing he mentioned was guns, and again, it's to say 'considered' doesn't work

 

[Ura]

Konami said Metal Gear wouldn't get a Pachinko machine. Look at a trademark they filed a while ago
Earthbound was available for Europe only recently, so Paula has a decent shot next time, right? 'RH was almost playable' is bull****. Hanonbow and RH have almost identical representation in Smash 4's files
Relevance doesn't matter in the slightest, which is why Takamaru got scrapped twice. Doesn't mean **** for Geno 'Isaac was heavily requested' Outside of fan polls, source? I love GS too but it's not as important as you're making it out.
Sakurai ONLY said guns were an issue with Bond iirc, he could have easily just said copyright and ****. Again, Takamaru was considered for 2 games

That isn't the point. I'd rather I not go over this again and again seeing as were pretty much going in circles with this, no offense or anything. Bottom line is AW isn't dead evident by the fact that it had a 2013 release of DoR in Japan and the statement made by IS.

RH was confirmed to have a cut playable character no? If the character almost made it in the game then it's pretty much a given if the series is Smash worthy.

IDK why you brought up Earthbound when the series is confirmed to be done. Being considered is still pretty major. That isn't the same thing as saying X character is a lock for the next Smash game but it still speaks volumes for a character's potential inclusion. Likewise here i'd rather not go in circles.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Obscure characters are boring, let's only add Mario characters.

Best case scenario

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That isn't the point. I'd rather I not go over this again and again seeing as were pretty much going in circles with this, no offense or anything. Bottom line is AW isn't dead evident by the fact that it had a 2013 release of DoR in Japan and the statement made by IS.

RH was confirmed to have a cut playable character no? If the character almost made it in the game then it's pretty much a given if the series is Smash worthy.

IDK why you brought up Earthbound when the series is confirmed to be done. Being considered is still pretty major. That isn't the same thing as saying X character is a lock for the next Smash game but it still speaks volumes for a character's potential inclusion. Likewise here i'd rather not go in circles.

Because it's something minor
It was confirmed to have an EMBLEM. Not a character. Same would apply to mother****ing ninja samurai with FE hair
You mentioned a game being released recently in a country that didn't get the game at first. And being considered isn't always major. There's that detective girl too, she doesn't even have an AT

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Obscure characters are boring, let's only add Mario characters.

Best case scenario

Any Mario character is fine.

Except the blatant metal clones, babies, and minor characters no one care about (Mother****ing Honey Queen).