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Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

Should we add a poll to the thread?


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FalKoopa

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Wait, when we talking about Female Link, we didn't mean Linkle? That's surprising.

I'd like to see Linkle appear in the main games as a female option, preferably with Link and Linkle getting some exclusive weapons, to encourage players to play both.

:231:
 

Coricus

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You know, I was thinking about the bad shape Nintendo is in, and getting bummed out over it, and thinking about how Nintendo said they wouldn't be bringing their IPs (or at least Mario) to anything else if they ever dropped out of the console business. . .

And then I realized, "You know what? Even if Nintendo doesn't have 50 years, even if they don't have 30, if worst comes to worst, I think they can find a way to hang on through one more bomb."

Nintendo doesn't have to hang on for 30 years to be able to release another console, they have to hang on for five. Just one step at a time. And as long as they can get their act together at least enough to stay in the green most of the time, I think they can pull it off.

Sure, pretty much everyone in and out of the greater Nintendo fandom alike hate Nintendo for any number of reasons. . .

But you know what? A hero's finest hour is when the odds are most against him. Or for a less heroic way of putting it, hate makes them stronger. Nintendo has a strange way of hanging on no matter what happens to them. And considering the sheer number of times people have cried "Nintendoomed" and Nintendo has found a way to prove their doom-and-gloom wrong, things like this might almost be kind of a reverse jinx. Every time people say Nintendo is going to fail in some way, they manage to avert or at least soften whatever fate was predicted for them.

And as far as Nintendo being in a pickle right now goes? I for one am thoroughly willing to grab some popcorn and see what Nintendo is capable of when they aren't being complacent.

@Zoroarking

I'm not understanding what you're saying.
I guess he means that the people who ask for a "real" female Link will still find a ton of things to complain about and keep moving the goalpost while the people who hate the people who ask for a "real" female Link will be offended that Nintendo "caved" and altered the character that they have such nostalgic memories of?
 

N3ON

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I don't see the point of including a one-off spin-off character like Linkle when you could just include the option of making the existing protagonist (one who is already androgynous and changes age, attire, and design) female. It's not like Link is some unchanging entity. The character is pretty malleable.

It's more I viewed link as a character. I wouldn't necessarily care for a female Spiderman or Superman

Or Thor.

But, I guess those exist anyway, so...
I would agree if the character of Link was the same in every game. If it was the same one Link in every Zelda title. Then I would feel it an unnecessary deviation, like a male Samus or something.

But the Links are different. They're all named Link, but they're not the same individual. They range in age and dress, so altering the gender, especially for a blank slate like Link, doesn't really bother me. If anything I'd like them to make this Link either male specifically or female specifically for the sake of canon, but I understand why they wouldn't go that route.

Female Link would just attract more criticism than anything... again
Linkle is basically Fem Link
I'd prefer having Linkle instead of a fem Link so she could have some gameplay differences, like using her crossbows instead of the usual bow and arrows
Shallow criticism perhaps. Criticism that suits a political agenda but not actually one of much significance. I don't see many gamers having a problem with it, they're used to characters of variable gender by now. And again it's not like making Duke Nukem female, or Lara Croft male. Link is pretty androgynous and ill-defined as it is... it's not a huge departure for the character.

And having Link and Linkle contain gameplay differences sounds pretty limiting when you could just make an amalgamation of both for the gameplay. Zelda isn't some game where you choose a new character every level, relegating gameplay to a certain character sounds unnecessarily restrictive.

Wait, when we talking about Female Link, we didn't mean Linkle? That's surprising.

I'd like to see Linkle appear in the main games as a female option, preferably with Link and Linkle getting some exclusive weapons, to encourage players to play both.

:231:
That'd work better for a game whereby each play-through doesn't take an extensive amount of time.
 

KingofPhantoms

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I don't really have any qualms with having an option to play as a female or male Link.

Just don't name the female version "Linkle" ever again, please. :p
 

Pazzo.

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It's not like having a female Link is going to make a considerable change on the narrative of Zelda anyway.

Just changing the character for the sake of adding an option just seems like a ill-suited reason for extra development.

The Zelda series is based off old fairy-tales and mythologies of the past anyway. Link's male because the hero is male. It's not a commentary on gender differences or anything, it's a reflection of tropes and ideals hundreds, if not thousands of years old.

Really though, if a female Link was added, I'd be no skin off my back, but it's just not needed.
 

Professor Lexicovermis

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My dog may have to be put down soon

She has a back problem, and surgery costs $7000

She's going to a neurologists soon, and if there is nothing they can do - We're just going to keep the dog around until she's unable to stand/ walk anymore and put her down
Well, I'm very sorry to hear that. If you don't mind me asking, what type of dog is she? I have a Dachshund-Corgi mix who was in the same situation, but we moved her into the house and she's doing better now.
 

Pazzo.

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You know, I was thinking about the bad shape Nintendo is in, and getting bummed out over it, and thinking about how Nintendo said they wouldn't be bringing their IPs (or at least Mario) to anything else if they ever dropped out of the console business. . .

And then I realized, "You know what? Even if Nintendo doesn't have 50 years, even if they don't have 30, if worst comes to worst, I think they can find a way to hang on through one more bomb."

Nintendo doesn't have to hang on for 30 years to be able to release another console, they have to hang on for five. Just one step at a time. And as long as they can get their act together at least enough to stay in the green most of the time, I think they can pull it off.

Sure, pretty much everyone in and out of the greater Nintendo fandom alike hate Nintendo for any number of reasons. . .

But you know what? A hero's finest hour is when the odds are most against him. Or for a less heroic way of putting it, hate makes them stronger. Nintendo has a strange way of hanging on no matter what happens to them. And considering the sheer number of times people have cried "Nintendoomed" and Nintendo has found a way to prove their doom-and-gloom wrong, things like this might almost be kind of a reverse jinx. Every time people say Nintendo is going to fail in some way, they manage to avert or at least soften whatever fate was predicted for them.

And as far as Nintendo being in a pickle right now goes? I for one am thoroughly willing to grab some popcorn and see what Nintendo is capable of when they aren't being complacent.
Wait, did something happen? When was Nintendo in trouble?
 

KingofPhantoms

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Miyamoto tried to make Link someone people could identify with. Considering that and that he's always been a silent protagonist (outside of a few small exceptions like WW and the one line of dialogue he received in the Adventure of Link) I don't see a real problem with future games having a gender-neutral option.
 

Coricus

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Wait, did something happen? When was Nintendo in trouble?
Just thinking on a conversation a couple pages ago where a couple of users saw parallels between SEGA's status right before it pulled out and Nintendo's current situation.

Also as to when, I think the concept of Nintendoomed designates it as "always." :troll:
 

Pazzo.

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Just thinking on a conversation a couple pages ago where a couple of users saw parallels between SEGA's status right before it pulled out and Nintendo's current situation.

Also as to when, I think the concept of Nintendoomed designates it as "always." :troll:
:laugh:

Mind linking the conversation? I'd be interesting in reading through it.

They took into account how much money Nintendo has, right?
 

N3ON

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It's not like having a female Link is going to make a considerable change on the narrative of Zelda anyway.

Just changing the character for the sake of adding an option just seems like a ill-suited reason for extra development.

The Zelda series is based off old fairy-tales and mythologies of the past anyway. Link's male because the hero is male. It's not a commentary on gender differences or anything, it's a reflection of tropes and ideals hundreds, if not thousands of years old.

Really though, if a female Link was added, I'd be no skin off my back, but it's just not needed.
I agree that it's not necessary.

That said, its addition is not without merit. Many female gamers are indeed drawn to games with female protagonists. Link is kept silent and ill-defined for a sense of relatability. So that the player can put themselves in his shoes. Miyamoto has even said things to such an effect. And allowing the option for a female Link is only going to widen that window. Same reason a litany of games now incorporate selectable genders for their protagonists.

Though like I said I would be against it if Link wasn't already an ever-changing entity.

I don't really have any qualms with having an option to play as a female or male Link.

Just don't name the female version "Linkle" ever again, please. :p
Yus.
 

Coricus

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:laugh:

Mind linking the conversation? I'd be interesting in reading through it.

They took into account how much money Nintendo has, right?
I wasn't lying when I said it was a couple pages ago:

http://smashboards.com/threads/swamp.422414/page-1709

And yes, that was addressed at one point. It actually wasn't that long of a conversation, but it was a conversation nonetheless.

*EDIT* You'll have to scroll down a bit, though.
 
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D

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*spams Scald*
So much for that...
There's literally no excuse to find Clay hard when you have an area just before him with only a Pokemon that has a type immunity and advantage to his entire team
Excadrill used Rockslide.
Ducklett fainted.


Also you only get the TM 55 containing Scald by defeating the last Gym Leader in B2W2.
 

Scamper52596

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Unfortunately these rumors would personally kill my hype for the game if they're true. I've never been a fan of either idea of voice acting or gender swapping in the Zelda franchise. Unless the voice acting is strictly the Hylian language and the gender picks are two separate stories that coincide with each other so that both are considered canon. Then I wouldn't mind so much, but I still don't see the point really.
 

FalKoopa

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I saw that FE mainstream video too.
  • I don't get the point of Fire Emblem being less mature as it goes mainstream, as Pokémon still manages to keep mature themes in it, Black/White being a prime example - N's backstory.
  • I won't deny it - I was quite miffed by Phoenix mode. Fire Emblem is a strategy RPG. Phoenix mode removes the strategy part of it, pretty much. As Tri pointed out, with Phoenix Mode, the game is just a $40 visual novel. Yes, I understand it's an option and you're not required to play it, but it clashes with the very genre of the game.
    • Like, it's the same as a Mario game where there are no bottomless pits.
    • Anyway, as long as the difficulty of other modes isn't watered down, I can live with it.
  • About the game's censorship. While I wasn't happy that the skinship was removed (I believe that an artist's work is sacred should be as unmodified as possible), is fears seem exaggerated. In an increasingly connected world, there is no way Nintendo can really get away with cutting out whole chapter and not get blasted for it.
  • And lastly and nitpickingly, what the hell is this?
    • Like, what is Iran's national emblem doing in there?
I can understand the basis of his complaints, but I find his fears rather grossly exaggerated.

That'd work better for a game whereby each play-through doesn't take an extensive amount of time.
Having a game the length of Twilight Princess or Wind Waker seems right to me. I guess that means Zelda Wii U isn't the best place for Linkle.

:231:
 
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Substitution

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I don't know. Personally I don't care either way. I mean I'll be honest it's not like Link really was so developed that going away from him being just a guy is a bad thing. He's for the most part a blank slate for the player themselves, just someone for the player to channel into.

As long as I get to swing a sword and kill things I'm fine with whatever they do.
 

Jaster

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I don't know if this has been posted, I found it funny (regarding the Zelda U Rumors):

*game starts*

Hello! Welcome to the world of Hyrule!

My name is Zelda, but people call me the Princess of Hyrule!

This world is inhabited by monstrous creatures led under the tyranny of Ganon!

Now, why don't you tell me a little bit about yourself?

Are you a boy, or are you a girl?
 
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Pazzo.

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I agree that it's not necessary.

That said, its addition is not without merit. Many female gamers are indeed drawn to games with female protagonists. Link is kept silent and ill-defined for a sense of relatability. So that the player can put themselves in his shoes. Miyamoto has even said things to such an effect. And allowing the option for a female Link is only going to widen that window. Same reason a litany of games now incorporate selectable genders for their protagonists.

Though like I said I would be against it if Link wasn't already an ever-changing entity.


Yus.
I can understand that. Really, it comes down to how we want to define the role of the avatar VS. the role of the player. But that's another can of worms.

I wasn't lying when I said it was a couple pages ago:

http://smashboards.com/threads/swamp.422414/page-1709

And yes, that was addressed at one point. It actually wasn't that long of a conversation, but it was a conversation nonetheless.

*EDIT* You'll have to scroll down a bit, though.
Alright then, thanks.
 

Baskerville

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I'm all for the full voice acting (Just do a good job with the casting). They were going to get to this at some point.
 

N3ON

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Unfortunately these rumors would personally kill my hype for the game if they're true. I've never been a fan of either idea of voice acting or gender swapping in the Zelda franchise. Unless the voice acting is strictly the Hylian language and the gender picks are two separate stories that coincide with each other so that both are considered canon. Then I wouldn't mind so much, but I still don't see the point really.
What do you think the point of making the Inklings, or Robin, or the Pokemon Trainers of selectable gender is?

To me gender and VA are surface details. They don't effect the game mechanically. They don't alter the gameplay. So it's like a WW situation where people are presented with something that initially clashes with their idea of how a Zelda game should be on a sensory level, but it really doesn't alter what Zelda actually is.

And, for whatever it's worth, imo a game like Zelda that doesn't feature VA in at least the supporting cast is a bit archaic in 2016. But then again it is Nintendo.

I don't know. Personally I don't care either way. I mean I'll be honest it's not like Link really was so developed that going away from him being just a guy is a bad thing. He's for the most part a blank slate for the player themselves, just someone for the player to channel into.

As long as I get to swing a sword and kill things I'm fine with whatever they do.
Exactly. It doesn't change the core of the game, it doesn't really contrast with the character, and it appeals to a broader audience. I don't really see the downside other than the more trivial fact that one version probably won't be of canon. But the Zelda canon is already rather messy anyway.
 
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Pazzo.

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Did the rumor note if the voice acting is going to be full on, voiced dialogue, or just more of this:

 

Curious Villager

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The rumor itself kind of feels like its walking on the coat tails of what the Zelda community has been talking over on its current time. As in there has been a lot of debates in regards to gender options and voice acting has always been in continuous talk with the Zelda fanbase.

It feels kind of like the "K.Rool/Ridley/Wolf/whatever character is the hot topic with the Smash fanbase will be playable in Smash" type of rumours and are thus usually used in many of them imo.

In regards to the rumour itself. I don't really have much of an opinion on it as I don't really get involved much with the Zelda fanbase these days. So I suppose it's more of an indifference from me. The Zelda series has been very experimental for many years though. Some say that it started with the Wind Waker, though others may say it has been thing since Ocarina of Time or even Zelda 2. So as always, I'll just take a wait and see approach and see how it turns out if it really becomes a thing.
 
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SlickWylde

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The rumor itself kind of feels like its walking on the coat tails of what the Zelda community has been debating on its current time. As in there has been a lot of debates in regards to gender options and voice acting has always been in continuous talk with the Zelda fanbase.

It feels kind of like the K.Rool/Ridley/Wolf/whatever character is the hot topic with the Smash fanbase will be playable in Smash type of rumours imo.

In regards to the rumour itself. I don't really have much of an opinion on it as I don't really get involved much with the Zelda fanbase these days. So I suppose it's more of an indifference from me. The Zelda series has been very experimental for many years though. Some say that it started with Wind Waker, though others may say it has been thing since Ocarina of Time or even Zelda 2. So as always, I'll just take a wait and see approach and see how it turns out if it really becomes a thing.
I agree, it does remind me of the K Rool "New popular idea" leak.
 

powerprotoman

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you know what i want from a new zelda game? the abbility to use something other than a sword because unless ganondorf is back we REALLY dont have a reason to bring back the master sword
 

Scamper52596

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What do you think the point of making the Inklings, or Robin, or the Pokemon Trainers of selectable gender is?

To me gender and VA are surface details. They don't effect the game mechanically. They don't alter the gameplay. So it's like a WW situation where people are presented with something that initially clashes with their idea of how a Zelda game should be on a sensory level, but it really doesn't alter what Zelda actually is.

And, for whatever it's worth, imo a game like Zelda that doesn't feature VA in at least the supporting cast is a bit archaic in 2016. But then again it is Nintendo.
The difference is that Link is an established character who has been around for more than 30 years. Splatoon, Fire Emblem, and Pokemon feature playable avatars because the games are made to be that way. You can call Link an avatar character all you want, but since the original Legend of Zelda Link has been personified more and more as a character and has since become something more than just an avatar figure. I'd say Link has more of a character than even Mario at this point. The franchise already has a lore to adhere to, and one game in a franchise of more than fifteen installments with a playable female Link clashes pretty hard with the rest of the established franchise. I might as well start asking to play as female Mario or male Samus. Gender swapping in video games is fine to me as long as it's not with an established character, especially one that's been around for so long. It feels wrong.

The only problem I have with voice acting is that, besides possibly not being good, the Zelda franchise typically has had areas in the games with massive plot dropping. To have to sit there and listen through all of it isn't an idea I'm very fond of. I'd rather read through the dialogue at my own pace when it comes to those long sessions of continuous plot. Thinking about what it would be like to listen to Zelda constantly speak to you in the middle of Skyward Sword with all of those story reveals feels like it would get grating.
 

Pazzo.

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Zelda does something each game to change the formula...

I prefer it that way. But usually this is done mechanically or aesthetically.
 
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PsychoIncarnate

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You can't be too angry at Nintendo for shutting down the 3D Zelda fan game. Yeah, it sucks. But it's also not something that falls under fair use or anything like that.

Making a profit off something is only a minor factor in whether it's copyright infringement or not
 

Z25

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Well this thread title certainly gave me a laugh!

Anyway, those female link rumors make a lot of sense. It pretty cool to see that pulled off.

And I was playing through Neo Y today, and I completely forgot that in X and Y this happens

This honestly made me tear up the first time, and was still feels worthy today.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
The difference is that Link is an established character who has been around for more than 30 years. Splatoon, Fire Emblem, and Pokemon feature playable avatars because the games are made to be that way. You can call Link an avatar character all you want, but since the original Legend of Zelda Link has been personified more and more as a character and has since become something more than just an avatar figure. I'd say Link has more of a character than even Mario at this point. The franchise already has a lore to adhere to, and one game in a franchise of more than fifteen installments with a playable female Link clashes pretty hard with the rest of the established franchise. I might as well start asking to play as female Mario or male Samus. Gender swapping in video games is fine to me as long as it's not with an established character, especially one that's been around for so long. It feels wrong.

The only problem I have with voice acting is that, besides possibly not being good, the Zelda franchise typically has had areas in the games with massive plot dropping. To have to sit there and listen through all of it isn't an idea I'm very fond of. I'd rather read through the dialogue at my own pace when it comes to those long sessions of continuous plot. Thinking about what it would be like to listen to Zelda constantly speak to you in the middle of Skyward Sword with all of those story reveals feels like it would get grating.
This. This so much. Thank you.
I agree with every single thing you said.
 

DoodleDuck97

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As someone who has now finalized their mains.
And cloud being one of the 5, I happened to stumble upon this along my travels.
Don't get me wrong the Japanese voice is fine, I mean I also main Roy so I kind of had to get used to it.
But this sounds pretty awesome and hopefully can get modded in with a bunch of other voice mods if they become a thing.
:4sonic::4fox::4falco:
My favourite part is probably the third voice clip of his up taunt ^,^
 

N3ON

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The difference is that Link is an established character who has been around for more than 30 years.
Yes, but much in the same way that Doctor Who exists. There is no one Doctor, as there is no one Link. If five people are asked to picture Link, they might come back with five different interpretations. Where the Doctor "regenerates", Link is "reincarnated". There is a fluidity to the character where the entity takes shape in many ways, none of which preclude the possibility of a female.

Splatoon, Fire Emblem, and Pokemon feature playable avatars because the games are made to be that way.
Yes that is a conscious choice made, but the games aren't built around gender to the extent the experiences changes. If there wasn't an option it would still be very much the same game. All it really effects is the aesthetic (and a very small part of the marriage system in FE).

You can call Link an avatar character all you want, but since the original Legend of Zelda Link has been personified more and more as a character and has since become something more than just an avatar figure.
In some titles he has gained more personality, but typically that personality, past courage and a sense of adventure, is inconsistent.

I'd say Link has more of a character than even Mario at this point.
Even if true, those aren't exactly high standards.

Plus, if you're saying Link has become more and more personified, you're implying his characteristics have increased over time. His gender hasn't. He's as much a male now as he was in 1986. And the personality doesn't have to change if he's made a female... it probably wouldn't.

The franchise already has a lore to adhere to, and one game in a franchise of more than fifteen installments with a playable female Link clashes pretty hard with the rest of the established franchise.
Really? Does getting a pair of boobs really clash with the lore of being reborn to claim one third of the triforce in times where Hyrule is threatened? How exactly would the lore change if he were female? It's a surface change, it's a change of aesthetics.

I might as well start asking to play as female Mario or male Samus. Gender swapping in video games is fine to me as long as it's not with an established character, especially one that's been around for so long. It feels wrong.
But Mario and Samus are a single individual. The same Mario that's in one Mario game is going to be in every Mario game. Same with Samus. If it were a different Samus in every Metroid game with a different design but the same base role I'd say sure, make one male, why not? But it's not.

"Link" is an entity that is reincarnated into multiple characters who are all named Link. If it was one single Link in every Zelda game, then yeah, it would legitimately be changing the character, but one Link isn't necessarily the same as the other. So what if one's a girl? The character is staying the same, the proportions would just change a bit, which happens ALL THE TIME with Link. It's just an extension of the character, it's not an overhaul.

The only problem I have with voice acting is that, besides possibly not being good, the Zelda franchise typically has had areas in the games with massive plot dropping. To have to sit there and listen through all of it isn't an idea I'm very fond of. I'd rather read through the dialogue at my own pace when it comes to those long sessions of continuous plot. Thinking about what it would be like to listen to Zelda constantly speak to you in the middle of Skyward Sword with all of those story reveals feels like it would get grating.
Yeah, it would get tedious if one had to sit and listen and not be able to do anything during the times of dialogue, but that already sort of exists in Zelda anyway through text. Games that make proficient use of VA don't let it hamper the experience or let it become heavy-handed, they include dialogue during times of gameplay, such as traversal (of which there would be plenty in an open-world Zelda) or through cutscenes. There are many ways to screw up VA, but there are also many examples of VA done right.

It doesn't necessarily have to be the kind that sits you down and doesn't let you skip or escape from the ramblings of plot exposition.
 
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BandanaWaddleDee

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Zelda NX version? Completely saw that one coming
Female Link option? Depends on how they do it.
Voice acting in Zelda: ABOUT FREAKING TIME!
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Are all flat earth people religious? And tie in religion to why they believe in the flat earth?

Because religion to my knowledge doesn't preach the earth is flat
 
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Swamp Sensei

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Honestly, I have to disagree N3ON.

I don't like the idea of a female Link because I do feel that Link is already defined as a character, but that sort of thing is relative so eh, opinions.

Still, wouldn't mind Linkle or another female character showing up though. I just think it's a better move if it's not Link, but their own individual character. I feel there's better potential for story telling that way.
 
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