Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[Burruni]

's DB opponent officially confirmed as

Spoiler

Let's get it on.

See.
This is the kind of thing that's gotten to me a bit.
Putting in spoilers because it's discussing the opponent

Spoiler

Ganondorf has been the villain of 3 Zelda games.
And he's just soaked up any time that the villain of zelda is brought up for any fanon thing.... and to an extent Hyrule Legends.

Ganon's... just been the more dominant identity in the actual series as the big bad and to me has always been the more interesting to fight for me. When you look at the Ganondorf fights themselves, you have the Tennis Match Redeux in OoT, WW had the acrobatic god Ganondorf which was basically a puzzle for how to get Zelda set up to stun him before doing a combo and the most interesting of the three. TP.... the horse back riding never felt good for me and that boss did not make it better, and then the actual sword match just felt.... kinda boring to me. He was just larger than you with some slow sweeps and was just a lot more "reserved" in his fighting from WW (for some situations).

Ganon's had the warping, invisibility, projectiles, light management, shrinking arenas, etc....

This is part of my big push for Ganon, alone, to return as a big bad for a 3D Zelda, like Zelda U. To try to get him back in the limelight and not just "that bigger form that Dorf turns into."

 

[jarbAin]

If we are still talking about which characters we want and which we don't I have one that I definitely wouldn't want. Pichu. Yes, I should not judge people's opinions but in this case I will. I am irritated to no end when I see people wanting Pichu back. This is because Pichu would serve no purpose, as it would be only weaker version of Pikachu. Not even really different, just flat out weaker. To justify Pichu,s existence, Sakurai should either completely rework it, which would not satisfy people who want back the Pichu they know, or make it completely free. (Altough the idea of Pichu in smash makes me want to break something, even if it was given to us free of charge)

 

[Deleted member]

If we are still talking about which characters we want and which we don't I have one that I definitely wouldn't want. Pichu. Yes, I should not judge people's opinions but in this case I will. I am irritated to no end when I see people wanting Pichu back. This is because Pichu would serve no purpose, as it would be only weaker version of Pikachu. Not even really different, just flat out weaker. To justify Pichu,s existence, Sakurai should either completely rework it, which would not satisfy people who want back the Pichu they know, or make it completely free. (Altough the idea of Pichu in smash makes me want to break something, even if it was given to us free of charge)

It would serve the same purpose as having Falco, Luigi, Young Link, Ganondorf, etc. Pichu isn't just a weaker version of Pikachu, it actually has it's own stats and properties and can do some things Pikachu can't. I mean, it's quick attack is actually a lot different as well.

 

[Burruni]

It would serve the same purpose as having Falco, Luigi, Young Link, Ganondorf, etc. Pichu isn't just a weaker version of Pikachu, it actually has it's own stats and properties and can do some things Pikachu can't. I mean, it's quick attack is actually a lot different as well.

Pichu was put in to be a joke character and intentionally "bad." (Even if Pichu didn't end up being the worst character in the game).

One major thing to note is that of the 5 characters cut from Melee to Brawl, he was one of two not to be in the "Forbidden 7" data to hint at plans to bring them back.

The other is who many fans have come to the conclusion of being "replaced" through the changes that resulted in .

And, based on Melee, the things Pichu can do but Pikachu can't boil down to...
- Up B can go at more varied angles, something I believe Pikachu has gotten with future releases
- D-Air is better
- Slightly better grab range, once again something I believe Pikachu gained later
- Can Wall Jump, Pikachu gained this as of Brawl
- D-Smash launches farther and can semi-spike.
- U-Air combos better but can't semi-spike
- Side B can be charged longer, with bigger results at the end.

So... what remains being 4 positive bits compared to . Still more differentiation than but that also isn't saying a lot.

Everything else is neutral at best.

 

[jarbAin]

It would serve the same purpose as having Falco, Luigi, Young Link, Ganondorf, etc. Pichu isn't just a weaker version of Pikachu, it actually has it's own stats and properties and can do some things Pikachu can't. I mean, it's quick attack is actually a lot different as well.

I'm not actually very familiar with other characters melee, I just looked at Pichu and did not like it. The characters you mentioned, I am actually fine with them, as they were made more unique in their later appearances.

I still do not tolerate Pichu, as even though he has some of his own traits like speed and different combos, it is till too similar to Pikachu, and the recoil thing is just horrible idea. And as was told before, compared to Pikachu it has only a handful of positive differences, and the rest is negative or neutral.

 

[Deleted member]

Pichu was put in to be a joke character and intentionally "bad." (Even if Pichu didn't end up being the worst character in the game).

One major thing to note is that of the 5 characters cut from Melee to Brawl, he was one of two not to be in the "Forbidden 7" data to hint at plans to bring them back.

The other is who many fans have come to the conclusion of being "replaced" through the changes that resulted in .

And, based on Melee, the things Pichu can do but Pikachu can't boil down to...
- Up B can go at more varied angles, something I believe Pikachu has gotten with future releases
- D-Air is better
- Slightly better grab range, once again something I believe Pikachu gained later
- Can Wall Jump, Pikachu gained this as of Brawl
- D-Smash launches farther and can semi-spike.
- U-Air combos better but can't semi-spike
- Side B can be charged longer, with bigger results at the end.

So... what remains being 4 positive bits compared to . Still more differentiation than but that also isn't saying a lot.

Everything else is neutral at best.

I'd say it'd be actually unfair to compare later games to Melee movesets as Falco and Ganondorf got a lot more different since then, but in Melee they were almost as similar to Fox and Captain Falcon as Pichu is to Pikachu.

I also want to note that "weaker" doesn't necessarily mean they are using the exact same attack with inferior damage. Compare Fox's lasers to Falco's lasers and they're both good in their own regard. Pichu is pretty beast in the air as well and his Thunder attack is a lot different in properties like the laser comparison. It's not merely about being "weaker", he has actually different properties to his moves, they aren't just less damage less knock back. He may be designed as a joke character, but so is Wii Fit Trainer.

All you have to do is imagine what would've happened if Pichu got in Brawl or like Roy's incarnation in Smash 4 to see how they'd revamp the characters more and give it more traits. Pichu has potential for those who actually do enjoy the style versus Pikachu, they play a lot differently imo. (I personally can't stand playing as Pikachu but love using Pichu)

 

[AreJay25]

Nintendo's shares just went up by 8% thanks to Miitomo:

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/03/22/nintendo-shares-spike-on-first-smartphone-app-success-miitomo.html?

 

[Burruni]

I'd say it'd be actually unfair to compare later games to Melee movesets as Falco and Ganondorf got a lot more different since then, but in Melee they were almost as similar to Fox and Captain Falcon as Pichu is to Pikachu.

I also want to note that "weaker" doesn't necessarily mean they are using the exact same attack with inferior damage. Compare Fox's lasers to Falco's lasers and they're both good in their own regard. Pichu is pretty beast in the air as well and his Thunder attack is a lot different in properties like the laser comparison. It's not merely about being "weaker", he has actually different properties to his moves, they aren't just less damage less knock back. He may be designed as a joke character, but so is Wii Fit Trainer.

All you have to do is imagine what would've happened if Pichu got in Brawl or like Roy's incarnation in Smash 4 to see how they'd revamp the characters more and give it more traits. Pichu has potential for those who actually do enjoy the style versus Pikachu, they play a lot differently imo. (I personally can't stand playing as Pikachu but love using Pichu)

a) 's forward air and u-tilt alone gave him two entirely different moves in the kit and... something that really can't be argued is that Ganondorf didn't play that similarly to Captain Falcon. had more differentiations along the moveset, and despite largely being a very similar clone in general playset but it's a far longer list of pros vs cons. One other thing that's a world of difference is the big fanbase behind these characters Pichu hasn't really gotten even as a veteran character.

b) I just listed the differences in the properties to the moveset seen as positives for Pichu. The rest is largely less damage, less knock back, and recoil.

c) There's no proof that Wii Fit was put in to BE a "joke" character. Pichu was.

d) Yes, of the clone 6 from Melee, got tweaks to be more differentiated and to a lesser level so did . But, we also have a case of someone being almost unchanged from that pool .

e) Here, to me, is the crux of Pichu's issues: Pichu's return would be to bring back a veteran. Being a veteran, the primary focus of the appeal would be keeping them suited to their old selves. However, Pichu has never been a popular character amongst fans and he stands as one of two melee characters that we have no hints of being intended to return later on. all had the data to back them up, being fan favorites of fans and Doc having the benefit of being comparatively quite low-effort to recreated. We've seen the demand similarly for and then we turn to falling to the wayside like (but even then not to the level of apathy from what I've seen).

Pichu... I just don't see the reason for a return other than for the case of bringing back EVERY veteran.

 

[Deleted member]

a) 's forward air and u-tilt alone gave him two entirely different moves in the kit and... something that really can't be argued is that Ganondorf didn't play that similarly to Captain Falcon. had more differentiations along the moveset, and despite largely being a very similar clone in general playset but it's a far longer list of pros vs cons. One other thing that's a world of difference is the big fanbase behind these characters Pichu hasn't really gotten even as a veteran character.

b) I just listed the differences in the properties to the moveset seen as positives for Pichu. The rest is largely less damage, less knock back, and recoil.

c) There's no proof that Wii Fit was put in to BE a "joke" character. Pichu was.

d) Yes, of the clone 6 from Melee, got tweaks to be more differentiated and to a lesser level so did . But, we also have a case of someone being almost unchanged from that pool .

e) Here, to me, is the crux of Pichu's issues: Pichu's return would be to bring back a veteran. Being a veteran, the primary focus of the appeal would be keeping them suited to their old selves. However, Pichu has never been a popular character amongst fans and he stands as one of two melee characters that we have no hints of being intended to return later on. all had the data to back them up, being fan favorites of fans and Doc having the benefit of being comparatively quite low-effort to recreated. We've seen the demand similarly for and then we turn to falling to the wayside like (but even then not to the level of apathy from what I've seen).

Pichu... I just don't see the reason for a return other than for the case of bringing back EVERY veteran.

Ganondorf has the same moves as Captain Falcon, just different properties. In fact, you could argue his Up Tilt is the same move just with a different property because it has the same animation. His only differing move his is Forward Air.

Falco once again may have lucked out on mechanics (as did Fox), move his moves are the same just different properties tied to them just like Pichu.

e) He most likely was never popular due to the same reason Princess Zelda isn't popular to use in Melee despite Zelda herself being popular, they executed the character incorrectly to where it it lacks strength and most casual fans (and even hardcore fans) will look at Pichu damaging itself as a huge deterrent because they want to win. If Pichu didn't have this ridiculous aspect added to him, it'd make him a lot better and I feel he could be implemented well. It may not appeal to you persay but it'd appeal to what I'm wanting, not every character is for everyone.

I feel a joke character is a character that should be designed to be funny, not adding in a character that purposely sucks. I mean Dan exists in Street Fighter, but you can actually his abilities to your advantage, whereas Pichu has no actual advantage from his joke. I'd retool the character and make it as more aero dynamic and nimble version of Pikachu like he was in Melee, taking that good aspect and working with it further.

I don't honestly ever expect Pichu to return so I won't really discuss his chances compared to other veterans, most of all that is just opinions and speculation, however I think the right to want Pichu back and the right to like Pichu as a character isn't really that odd to be honest.If I were to speculate, I'd wager they'd get rid of the "joke" and flesh Pichu out more, but once again, just my speculation.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Why did no one tell me that Ty the Tasmanian Tiger was getting remastered and released on PC?

I looooooved this game. (Although looking back at it the first level is complete ****)


For a base price of $12 I can tell you for certain im getting this next steam sale.

 

[Ura]

Early and everything but.
E3 Wishlist

Spoiler

NX Reveal

: A 64/Sunshine/Galaxy 1 style hub & "world missions" set up game. Galaxy 3 or otherwise.

: DKCR3 - Crocageddon.

: WARIO LAND - The Midas Mitt (3DS 2017)

: Zelda U/NX - Title dropped

: Go! Release date

: "Ultra" Metroid. 2.5D style metroidvania - (3DS 2017)

: ....Miyamoto please

: Pikmin 4

: Punch-Out!! NeXt.

: Announcement for the development of Xenoblade X-2.

(Edit: and now for the Non-Smash Series)

Advance Wars: Neo Era Warfare (3DS 2017)

Golden Sun: Turmoil Twilight (3DS 2017)

Gotcha Force 2.

Persona 5 & FF7 HD to NX.

I can fap to this list.

Especially Golden Sun 4 and Advance Wars 5 happening. That would make E3 for me.

 

[Deleted member]

Early and everything but.
E3 Wishlist

Spoiler

NX Reveal

: A 64/Sunshine/Galaxy 1 style hub & "world missions" set up game. Galaxy 3 or otherwise.

: DKCR3 - Crocageddon.

: WARIO LAND - The Midas Mitt (3DS 2017)

: Zelda U/NX - Title dropped

: Go! Release date

: "Ultra" Metroid. 2.5D style metroidvania - (3DS 2017)

: ....Miyamoto please

: Pikmin 4

: Punch-Out!! NeXt.

: Announcement for the development of Xenoblade X-2.

(Edit: and now for the Non-Smash Series)

Advance Wars: Neo Era Warfare (3DS 2017)

Golden Sun: Turmoil Twilight (3DS 2017)

Gotcha Force 2.

Persona 5 & FF7 HD to NX.

I'll do it as well

Spoiler

More than 30 seconds of Zelda U
Pokemon Sun and Moon ingame footage
A FE4 remake for the Wii U
EOV localization pls
Wonderful 102 in my dreams
NX not releasing this year

 

[jarbAin]

I don't honestly ever expect Pichu to return so I won't really discuss his chances compared to other veterans, most of all that is just opinions and speculation, however I think the right to want Pichu back and the right to like Pichu as a character isn't really that odd to be honest.If I were to speculate, I'd wager they'd get rid of the "joke" and flesh Pichu out more, but once again, just my speculation.

Well, then this just comes down to personal opinions, it seems. Of course I think that my opinion is better than yours, and I will always see Pichu as a downgraded pikachu, but how could I make you not prefer Pichu to Pikachu?

 

[Deleted member]

Well, then this just comes down to personal opinions, it seems. Of course I think that my opinion is better than yours, and I will always see Pichu as a downgraded pikachu, but how could I make you not prefer Pichu to Pikachu?

Although I get the jokingness in your statements, I honestly don't view my opinion above yours, or yours above mine I see everyone's opinion as equal, just different tastes.

 

[Aetheri]

I can expect a 30th Anniversary montage for Zelda at e3 like what was done for Mario last year with likely a lot of footage and information about Zelda Wii U...(of course I don't want to hold my breath but that's what I think will happen, Zelda is a pretty big deal, not as big as Mario but still big enough)
In addition to this we can probably get more info on Hyrule warriors DLC as well, possible character reveal for certain upcoming packs...
and a surprise reveal for Midna in Smash

I'd be happy as a Zelda fan if all this happened at e3...

Spoiler

but sad as a Metroid fan knowing Nintendo won't do the same for this series

 

[ChikoLad]

Regarding the whole Pichu thing, I don't think it's fair to compare him to characters like Ganondorf and Falco, because those are characters that really should not have been clones to begin with.

In they're own games, they are distinct characters with their own traits. Pichu isn't, it's literally a baby Pikachu. Even in it's own game, it's still just a derivative of Pikachu so why would it be any different in Smash, and why would the dev team spend time putting in Pichu over some other easy clone (or hell, alts - I would prefer clone dev time had gone towards a few more quick and easy alts for characters)?

Spoiler

I say this, and is still my favourite Falco in Smash, lol.

Which is why this makes me happy.

 

[jarbAin]

Although I get the jokingness in your statements, I honestly don't view my opinion above yours, or yours above mine I see everyone's opinion as equal, just different tastes.

What I meant with it was that I agree with my opinion and disagree with your opinion, so I like mine more. And yes, I also think that your opinon is quite a fine opinion indeed, otherwise I would have told you that you are wrong.

 

[Deleted member]

I can expect a 30th Anniversary montage for Zelda at e3 like what was done for Mario last year with likely a lot of footage and information about Zelda Wii U...(of course I don't want to hold my breath but that's what I think will happen, Zelda is a pretty big deal, not as big as Mario but still big enough)
In addition to this we can probably get more info on Hyrule warriors DLC as well, possible character reveal for certain upcoming packs...
and a surprise reveal for Midna in Smash

I'd be happy as a Zelda fan if all this happened at e3...

Spoiler

but sad as a Metroid fan knowing Nintendo won't do the same for this series

I'm pretty sure Pokemon's 20th anniversary is gonna take priority over another Zelda segment at E3

 

[Aetheri]

I'm pretty sure Pokemon's 20th anniversary is gonna take priority over another Zelda segment at E3

I'd probably agree with you if Pokemon didn't already have their own dedicated direct which featured their 20th Anniversary sequence...
We might see something about Pokemon but e3 is Zelda's time, especially considering how everyone is expecting something regarding Zelda this year...

 

[Ura]

My money is on LoZ having the nice retrospect this year. It's a huge mainstay Nintendo series so I don't see why it wouldn't.

Here's hoping it doesn't take too much time from the Digital Event though.

 

[AreJay25]

Two other franchises have anniversaries this year, y'know.

 

[Z25]

This is actually a pretty damn good remix!!

Good job GiIvaSunner, good job!

 

[Deleted member]

I'd probably agree with you if Pokemon didn't already have their own dedicated direct which featured their 20th Anniversary sequence...
We might see something about Pokemon but e3 is Zelda's time, especially considering how everyone is expecting something regarding Zelda this year...

I don't think that Direct can even count considering how small it was
Zelda already got sonething for its 25th anniversary, I believe this year is going to be mainly Pokemon's
But let's wait and see

 

[A Distant Demon]

Two other franchises have anniversaries this year, y'know.

Who?


You mean that Mario Party side character and that chibi girl?

Who cares?

Spoiler

Spoiler

Kid Icarus has an anniversary this year too

 

[Champ Gold]

Two other franchises have anniversaries this year, y'know.

And Kid Icarus, Resident Evil and Super Mario 64

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I honestly couldn't stand Pikachu in Melee. His moveset overhaul was borins hell. Removing his old Up Air killed some of his range. He was improved in Brawl, but I still disliked the Melee moveset. Smash 4 made him feel fun again.

It's why I played as Pichu. He felt better overall. Definitely had issues, of course, but what'd you expect from a guy who hurts himself? XD

 

[ChikoLad]

I don't think that Direct can even count considering how small it was
Zelda already got sonething for its 25th anniversary, I believe this year is going to be mainly Pokemon's
But let's wait and see

The problem there is that both series' are handled mainly by two different companies when it comes to marketing.

The Pokémon Company will do their own thing for Pokémon's 20th, while Nintendo handle Zelda.

Pokémon will no doubt have a presence at E3 but it already got it's celebratory retrospective. Couple that with the fact that a new, main series, console Zelda game is always more "E3 material" than a new handheld Pokémon game (even if it's main series), especially if the new Zelda is going to be ported to NX (which is looking to come true), then I don't see why anyone would think Pokémon would have the bigger presence at E3 when a new Zelda is on the horizon.

As Aetheri said, E3 time is really Zelda time. Always has, always will be, in the event a console Zelda game is ready to show off.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I'm hoping we don't have to see more of #FE at E3.

 

[Shadowwolflink]

I'm hoping we don't have to see more of #FE at E3.

Why would you be against seeing more of something?

 

[Deleted member]

I'm hoping we don't have to see more of #FE at E3.

But it's what all fans wanted, a game that is true to the original japanese version!
Clearly it needs a whole segment dedicated to it

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Why would you be against seeing more of something?

Not everybody cares about the same thing. To each their own, after all. Plus, Fates is not just out, but unless it's more DLC, there's really nothing to talk about. There's a lot of other new subjects to discuss, including more new Pokemon from Sun/Moon to show off, as well more new mechanics. Never mind Zelda Wii U. Fates had its time to shine for previews. Let's let something else shine a little.

 

[ChikoLad]

Why would you be against seeing more of something?

I'm personally not a fan of seeing more of games at E3 when they are on the verge of releasing and happen to be out in a region anyway.

I understand why they might do it and I don't mind just a little trailer or something, but I'll completely tune out during the Treehouse Stream if there's like, a half hour segment on #FE. The game is literally coming out around E3.

They did this last year with Yoshi's Woolly World, which actually came out in Europe during E3, but I could at least understand that since it was just one region, with the rest of the world getting it later.

However, #FE has been out for months in Japan, so you can already look up gameplay of it in spades, and it's coming out for the rest of the world around E3. If they spend any amount of significant time on it, it would be better suited to more footage of another game.

 

[Z25]

They should just pretend #FE doesn't exist and then make it into a pokemon crossover and port it to NX.


But seriously, that would be nice. I actually came up with a formula for how well it would work. I'll post it sometime this week.

 

[Aetheri]

I don't think that Direct can even count considering how small it was
Zelda already got sonething for its 25th anniversary, I believe this year is going to be mainly Pokemon's
But let's wait and see

Its still a celebration of the past 20 years of Pokemon, despite how short it was...coupled with the announcement of the upcoming titles...

There really isn't a point having a second retrospect, even Mario didn't get a second for its 30th...and Zelda is still a flagship title for Nintendo with a large fanbase and one of its most anticipated titles in recent years on the horizon...e3 is the main stage which is where major Zelda announcements happen, it would be a huge missed opportunity if they passed this up like they did last year...
same is true for metroid imo, but yeah

 

[Curious Villager]

They don't often announce major new Pokemon stuff on E3 do they? At least from what I recall, Gamefreak and the Pokemon Company usually tend to do their own thing and announce new things to their games on their own time and streams or through Coro Coro. I could be wrong though.....

 

[BluePikmin11]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1199604
I'm going to miss the Wii U. It was dear in my heart for gaming.

 

[A Distant Demon]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1199604
I'm going to miss the Wii U. It was dear in my heart for gaming.

Damn. That is a pretty early death.


NX you better not let Wii U's death be in vain.

 

[Champ Gold]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1199604
I'm going to miss the Wii U. It was dear in my heart for gaming.

Could we see a massive insane price drop on the Wii U then?

 

[Burruni]

Two other franchises have anniversaries this year, y'know.

DKCR3, man.
Retro had a game ready to be announced or something of the like LAST year for E3 we've heard nothing of since.

 

[AreJay25]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1199604
I'm going to miss the Wii U. It was dear in my heart for gaming.

It barely lasted longer than the Dreamcast. Crazy to think about.

Maybe the NX will have backwards compatibility...

DKCR3, man.
Retro had a game ready to be announced or something of the like LAST year for E3 we've heard nothing of since.

Definitely sounds like DKCR3, then.

I mean, Nintendo wouldn't pull a Metroid with DK's anniversary, right?