Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[Aetheri]

Oh you think this is gold?

Have an entire salt mine
https://twitter.com/search?q=#TorrentialDownpour

Fixed...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

People suddenly need to complain about localization changes, despite them being the norm in the industry.

Coincidentally (or not), all the games that sparked such debates all involved toning down fanservice (as in, toning down sexy outfits and similar things).

Doesn't seem too coincidental to me, looking at things from this perspective.

People would be better off being honest and say "we want to stare at anime girls and pet them because we find them sexy" than putting on a self-righteous demeanor in order to make themselves feel like their right.

They're only lying, especially to themselves.

Don't forget with Xenoblade X, in which they were pissed they couldn't stare at skimpy 13 year olds

 

[Solfiner]

People where whining about Xenoblade X removing ALL religious references before it was released, lo and behold literally every religious reference was kept except for the name "Testament" for one of the factions which didn't even make sense in the first place.

Oh god they are trying so hard to make this a big movement, it's hilarious.

 

[Burruni]

Odin has the best unique skill.
"+10 crit if wielding a custom weapon with a name at least 12 characters long."

 

[Naoshi]

Oh my god. People are seriously making a hashtag campaign because the game has LOCALIZATION and isn't 100% true to the original dialogs? This is embarrassing as heck.

Why does it even matter? Fire Emblem isn't a japanese oriented series. Why does it NEED to have a literal translation? That's going to alienate the audience because the dialog would be just awkward and some references would be lost on them. There is nothing inherently wrong with localizing a game. That is always a thing, even in the Fire Emblem series and I don't understand why this is happening now.

It's one thing to dislike the dub and some changes, but it's another to get riled up and make a stupid pointless hashtag campaign over little things.

And FFS, some of these folks are also slandering a Nintendo employee over this, saying things like "SHE HATES GAMERS" all because she doesn't believe gaming is the literal most important thing in the world (and she's right). No doubt a lot of this links back to Gamergate. What a mess that movement is.

In short: Stay mad, nerds. You make up the very small percentage and you don't ultimately matter. The bigger audience does. No one should cater to elitism with a boring literal translation. That is not HOW things work.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

People where whining about Xenoblade X removing ALL religious references before it was released, lo and behold literally every religious reference was kept except for the name "Testament" for one of the factions which didn't even make sense in the first place.




Oh god they are trying so hard to make this a big movement, it's hilarious.

'YOU WILL TAKE US SERIOUSLY AND LET US TOUCH 13 YEAR OLDS IN NAUGHTY PLACES NINTENDO! Ah, the police! just what we needed! Officers, arrest those people trying to stop us from touching 13 year old girls! It's pure censorship, I tell ya!'

 

[Frostwraith]

About the Fates stuff, Shokio made a video about it a while ago and he does make some damn good points about all this.

I may disagree with some other stuff he's said before, but when someone's right, someone's right.

Link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx5Vje7zUjA

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Remember the reddit thread I mentioned before?

I found a comment thread that has given me even a tiny bit of faith in humanity: https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/46jnl9/fire_emblem_fates_localization_at_its_finest/d05q8nt

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You know what's the stupidest thing about whining WAHWAH LOCALIZATION! Henry is a fan favourite character from Awakening, fans LOVE his humour, and I've rarely seen any complaints about him. In the Japanese version, his personality was COMPLETELY different

 

[FalKoopa]

By condoning literal translations, they're essentially asking for creativity to be killed off. Might as well use Google Translate in future releases.

 

[Wario Bros.]

On another subject, Hideki Kamiya rejected the opportunity to put into Project X Zone 2


... only to regret that decision later.

http://gonintendo.com/stories/25242...pportunity-for-bayonetta-to-be-in-project-x-z

 

[Frostwraith]

On another subject, Hideki Kamiya rejected the opportunity to put into Project X Zone 2


... only to regret that decision later.

http://gonintendo.com/stories/25242...pportunity-for-bayonetta-to-be-in-project-x-z

Bad move from Kamiya. Really bad move...

At least, she's in Smash, which is a bigger crossover than PXZ. Hopefully a PXZ3 will rectify that.

 

[ChikoLad]

I don't like either side of these localisation arguments.

I think you guys are just as extreme about it sometimes, just on the opposite end (i.e. "Treehouse can change anything they want and we should be OK with it" and just generally acting condescending).

Localisation is fine and has been around since games started crossing shores, but that doesn't mean we have to blindly accept every change. The Treehouse is far from perfect, but that isn't to say they do everything wrong.

 

[Wario Bros.]

By condoning literal translations, they're essentially asking for creativity to be killed off. Might as well use Google Translate in future releases.

Kinda like Substitution once said, why don't they just release the game without bothering to even translate anything at all.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

On another subject, Hideki Kamiya rejected the opportunity to put into Project X Zone 2


... only to regret that decision later.

http://gonintendo.com/stories/25242...pportunity-for-bayonetta-to-be-in-project-x-z

Considering how positively received PXZ2 is, a sequel could possibly happen, and Kamiya will learn from his first **** up in gaming history

 

[NintenZ]

Okay because my roster looked... Unappealing... I decided to move Pitto and Lucy Goosy next to the third-party characters,

Does it look any better?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Localizations and Ace Attorney: http://www.capcom-unity.com/zeroobjections/blog/2014/11/21/localization-and-ace-attorney

Its a good read about AA and its localization.

 

[Deleted member]

Conquest Chapter 8

Spoiler

ELISE YOU JUST ****ED UP EVERYTHING
You still my cinnamon roll sister tho

 

[Naoshi]

I don't like either side of these localisation arguments.

I think you guys are just as extreme about it sometimes, just on the opposite end (i.e. "Treehouse can change anything they want and we should be OK with it" and just generally acting condescending).

Localisation is fine and has been around since games started crossing shores, but that doesn't mean we have to blindly accept every change. The Treehouse is far from perfect, but that isn't to say they do everything wrong.

No one is blindly accepting these changes. We just don't think it's that big of a deal and worth having an embarassing campaign over it, coupled with slandering an employee who may or may not have input with the game to begin with.

Do you see people blindly accepting bad dubs? No. We don't do that.

So what the heck are you even going on about us going on the other extreme side?

 

[aldelaro5]

Oh my god. People are seriously making a hashtag campaign because the game has LOCALIZATION and isn't 100% true to the original dialogs? This is embarrassing as heck.

Why does it even matter? Fire Emblem isn't a japanese oriented series. Why does it NEED to have a literal translation? That's going to alienate the audience because the dialog would be just awkward and some references would be lost on them. There is nothing inherently wrong with localizing a game. That is always a thing, even in the Fire Emblem series and I don't understand why this is happening now.

It's one thing to dislike the dub and some changes, but it's another to get riled up and make a stupid pointless hashtag campaign over little things.

And FFS, some of these folks are also slandering a Nintendo employee over this, saying things like "SHE HATES GAMERS" all because she doesn't believe gaming is the literal most important thing in the world (and she's right). No doubt a lot of this links back to Gamergate. What a mess that movement is.

In short: Stay mad, nerds. You make up the very small percentage and you don't ultimately matter. The bigger audience does. No one should cater to elitism with a boring literal translation. That is not HOW things work.

Tbh, it;s not even the worst.

The one that you could complain about are the one that actually removes meaning of the original thing (because the localisation shoudl in theory try to preserve the authenticity). For example, in TTYD, the JP version has in Rogueport a drawing of a bandit, like those you see in crime scene suggesting a murder. Now considering the town is your typical thieve and super unsafe themed, it just adds meaning, but on the NA version this was cut

I might agree that it coudl idk offend some people, but it;s still sad to see it lost.

Except this is even far from the worst because this got through one localisation whcih is from JP to NA. The worst is JP to NA to EU.....this one sucks. I tried to plays games in French and I coudln;t the cringe was so hard

So idk how removing something that sounds......very VERY trivial is even worth noting about. Of course naturally the game cannot be as authentic as ti was originally because it HAS to be translated and because of culture, it HAS to be localised. I mean, they should try their best, but these things jsut has to happen or you might as well learn JP and not complain any more lol

Like idk why it got this bad fast. I still think the French localisation is much worse than this.....try to play plemon games in French after you played the eng version......it;s really hard to get through because it's jsut.......bad.

 

[NintenZ]

On another subject, Hideki Kamiya rejected the opportunity to put into Project X Zone 2


... only to regret that decision later.

http://gonintendo.com/stories/25242...pportunity-for-bayonetta-to-be-in-project-x-z

Why would he pass up an opportunity like this?

 

[ChikoLad]

No one is blindly accepting these changes. We just don't think it's that big of a deal and worth having an embarassing campaign over it, coupled with slandering an employee who may or may not have input with the game to begin with.

Do you see people blindly accepting bad dubs? No.

But at the same time, people seem to be making a big deal out of the campaign being a thing.

It's silly but we don't need to obsessively point out reddit comments, act like people don't know localisation has been a thing for donkeys years, and post random articles about localisation as if people here require education on it.

Hash tag movements aren't a big deal anyways, anyone can make one about anything.

Right, @Con0rrrr ?

 

[Bedoop]

... only to regret that decision later.

Karma's a buttface, ain't it

 

[FalKoopa]

I don't like either side of these localisation arguments.

I think you guys are just as extreme about it sometimes, just on the opposite end (i.e. "Treehouse can change anything they want and we should be OK with it" and just generally acting condescending).

Localisation is fine and has been around since games started crossing shores, but that doesn't mean we have to blindly accept every change. The Treehouse is far from perfect, but that isn't to say they do everything wrong.

The point of localisation is to make it so that the story can be appreciated by the average player who is only passingly familiar with Japanese culture. It shouldn't so watered down that exoticness of it is lost nor should it be so direct that most people don't get the references. It can be hard to achieve that balance, as our very own @PushDustIn would have you know.

 

[Naoshi]

But at the same time, people seem to be making a big deal out of the campaign being a thing.

It's silly but we don't need to obsessively point out reddit comments, act like people don't know localisation has been a thing for donkeys years, and post random articles about localisation as if people here require education on it.

Hash tag movements aren't a big deal anyways, anyone can make one about anything.

Right, @Con0rrrr ?

I fail to see how this makes us on the extreme other side. We're mostly venting and laughing at the pathetic campaign. Not to mention some of the people from the campaign had been outright slandering a few folks.


People dismissing localization because there's differences is absolutely baffling. They're acting really entitled about this.

 

[ChikoLad]

The point of localisation is to make it so that the story can be appreciated by the average player who is only passingly familiar with Japanese culture. It shouldn't so watered down that exoticness of it is lost nor should it be so direct that most people don't get the references. It can be hard to achieve that balance, as our very own @PushDustIn would have you know.

I know that, I'm not arguing against that.

This thread just comes off as elitist about it, only at the opposite end of the scale than the people making these hash tag movements.

My general opinion personally is that Treehouse is serviceable for localisation but do make a lot of changes, or even, neglect to change things, that confuse me.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

act like people don't know localisation has been a thing for donkeys years,

Except the fact that so many idiots are crying about Fire Emblem of all things getting localized PROVES some people don't know what it is. 'WAHWAH MATOI WAS RENAMED INTO CAEDORI **** YOU TREEHOUSE FOR CENSORING MY KILL LA KILL REFERENCE! NOW IT'S JUST A MEASLY ANAGRAM' being completely oblivious to why she was called Matoi in the first place. Because it's an anagram on Tamio

 

[BluePikmin11]

People where whining about Xenoblade X removing ALL religious references before it was released, lo and behold literally every religious reference was kept except for the name "Testament" for one of the factions which didn't even make sense in the first place.




Oh god they are trying so hard to make this a big movement, it's hilarious.

You can't be serious about this right?
This is a bit dumb.

 

[Frostwraith]

As someone who's basically bilingual (fluent in Portuguese and English) and also speaks a bit of Spanish and French and wants to learn Japanese and maybe German (what a mouthful), I know that literal translations often don't work.

I've seen plenty of movies in English with Portuguese subs and, oftentimes, the translations aren't quite literal, especially for idiomatic expressions or other such sayings, as well as humor and puns. What carries, however, is the MEANING of what's being said.

I'm no professional translator and perhaps, some localization choices are quite drastic creative liberties (which can net both positive and negative results), but as someone who does have a fascination with different languages and has spoken to foreigners, been to several foreign countries, watched a lot of foreign media in addition to those from my home country, I do understand a lot the necessity of adjusting a product to a different audience.

People in different places, of different cultures, naturally have a different mindset and values. You may not agree with them, you may not agree with some changes (I also don't at times). The fact you're from a different culture, so long as you understand the mindset of other cultures and people, doesn't stop you from criticizing those different mindsets, provided you are well-informed and use good and logical argumentation.

It's all about checking the positives and negatives and weigh them in accordance to logic and one's ideals or beliefs. Criticism is important for things to evolve and change in a right way. Criticism isn't accentuating the negative: it's also focusing on the positives. What works vs. what doesn't work. What is good vs. what's not good.

When I see people doing these hashtag campaigns, I don't even see criticism. It's just mob mentality. This said, some people do put well-thought argumentation, even those against the localization changes. But they're a minority and that's a shame because civilized debate is good and foments a good community and better relationship between company and costumer.

 

[NintenZ]

Okay, I think I found his explanation,

Can't say this isn't something he wouldn't do...

 

[Naoshi]

I'm not judging people for not liking the localization, that is a perfectly okay thing to do. It's how they act about it is what makes it seriously ridiculous. They deserve some ridicule for some of the **** they were doing. (They were also spreading misinformation about things the other day too!)

 

[ChikoLad]

Except the fact that so many idiots are crying about Fire Emblem of all things getting localized PROVES some people don't know what it is. 'WAHWAH MATOI WAS RENAMED INTO CAEDORI **** YOU TREEHOUSE FOR CENSORING MY KILL LA KILL REFERENCE! NOW IT'S JUST A MEASLY ANAGRAM' being completely oblivious to why she was called Matoi in the first place. Because it's an anagram on Tamio

That isn't necessarily what everyone in support of the movement thinks though.

Again, it's the condescending, blind generalisation of the other side that comes off as elitist.

 

[FalKoopa]

I know that, I'm not arguing against that.

This thread just comes off as elitist about it, only at the opposite end of the scale than the people making these hash tag movements.

My general opinion personally is that Treehouse is serviceable for localisation but do make a lot of changes, or even, neglect to change things, that confuse me.

I don't see how. I mean, you've got to take one side or the other in a debate like this. How does that make anyone elitist? No one here is acting high and mighty over their opinion.

 

[NintenZ]

Guys I think that we're beating a dead horse at this point, can we change the topic to something else?

 

[Naoshi]

I don't see how. I mean, you've got to take one side or the other in a debate like this. How does that make anyone elitist? No one here is acting high and mighty over their opinion.

This.

FYI, just doing a "BOTH SIDES ARE AS BAD" is a lazy backhand way of undermining the situation. Justtttt saying.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Okay, I think I found his explanation,

Can't say this isn't something he wouldn't do...

See, Randy Pitchford? THIS is how you gain respect! Admit you ****ed up because you realized what you did was something fans wouldn't like. ****ing Colonial Marines...

 

[Substitution]

Okay, I think I found his explanation,

Can't say this isn't something he wouldn't do...

Still, nonetheless a Bayonetta/DMC crossover would be really cool.
I mean I'd play it.

 

[Coricus]

On another subject, Hideki Kamiya rejected the opportunity to put into Project X Zone 2


... only to regret that decision later.

http://gonintendo.com/stories/25242...pportunity-for-bayonetta-to-be-in-project-x-z

One of the greatest signs of skill and worth in a human being is to regret one's mistakes instead of denying them.

As much as her exclusion from a game that was clearly written hilariously is regrettable, I think we can all commend him for realizing that the choice to hold her back was a folly.

Granted, all of the characters that would convince me to buy an X Zone game are either too young looking or too anthropomorphic to be considered apparently, but as long as it means more bizarre screenshots full of Segata Sanshiro memes floating in here I fully support Bayonetta for X Zone 3.

 

[ChikoLad]

No one here is acting high and mighty over their opinion.

...I could point out multiple examples of it, but I won't go there.

I'll be going out in a minute anyway so this will hopefully have passed by the time I get back.

This.

FYI, just doing a "BOTH SIDES ARE AS BAD" is a lazy backhand way of undermining the situation. Justtttt saying.

Except that's not all I said.

Maybe be less lazy and read the full posts next time.

 

[Naoshi]

That isn't necessarily what everyone in support of the movement thinks though.

Again, it's the condescending, blind generalisation of the other side that comes off as elitist.

Thanks. We didn't know that there are some people there that thinks differently!!!!

Christ, we're not dense. The majority of the movement have this issue is we're talking about. Just because there's some that don't think that way doesn't mean we can't criticize the movement and poke fun at their flaws.