Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[MainJPW]

Calling the English version of Sonic X bad would be an understatement, it's downright terrible...

I could literally write an essay on how bad it is, and how not to do an English dub.

Here's a video showing some things wrong with it,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYUdTLFAwZ4

I already knew what video it was going to be before clicking the link. It's still not as bad as what they did to One Piece I'd say.

 

[Champ Gold]

My general opinion on Sonic shows:

-SatAM: I don't think it's very good and I stopped watching about 4 or 5 episodes in. I can see why it was popular though.
-AoStH: It's just pure zany fun, like Looney Tunes or something. I think it's good for what it is.
-Japanese Sonic X: It has it's problems but it has a lot I really like, and it was my favourite portrayal of Sonic before Secret Rings/Unleashed/Black Knight came along. Some episodes legitimately got me in the feels.
-English Sonic X: It's bad but there are some funny bits. I think the Cruise Blues episode is still funny even in this version.
-Sonic Boom: Has a few niggles but it's a great show, and most seem to agree that it's a quality product so it's the best received too.

My opinion is mostly this:

• AoSTH: Super Cheesy and stupid as hell like most slapstick cartoons but enjoyable
• SatAM: a tab bit overrated and just overall dull looking
• Underground: AbsolutelyDisgusting.jpeg
• X (Japanese and English): Average at best and hot garbage at worst. Human characters sans 2 all suck and too much Shadow fanwank
• Boom: It's decent but it's Boom where everything but the games are fine
• OVA: THE BEST SONIC ADAPTATION IN THE SERIES AND BEST SETTING AND ANIMATION

 

[Burruni]

Calling the English version of Sonic X bad would be an understatement, it's downright terrible...

I could literally write an essay on how bad it is, and how not to do an English dub.

Here's a video showing some things wrong with it,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYUdTLFAwZ4

Okay.
There's one in that listing in particular which I'm going to call out as no "********" edit.
It's the "hourglass" thing with the moon and star being editted to be just that moon.
THERE'S A DAMN GOOD REASON FOR THIS AND A PRECEDENT FOR IT.

Yes. The raw amount of removing text is dumb with 4kids.
But those are the only times that their censoring is particularly dumb.
Hell, I've give them CREDIT for the amount of times they've changed things like bars to restaurants... while overprotective is something I can at least defend.

 

[NintenZ]

I already knew what video it was going to be before clicking the link. It's still not as bad as what they did to One Piece I'd say.

Okay yeah good point...

But that's a mess of it's own...

Okay.
There's one in that listing in particular which I'm going to call out as no "********" edit.
It's the "hourglass" thing with the moon and star being editted to be just that moon.
THERE'S A DAMN GOOD REASON FOR THIS AND A PRECEDENT FOR IT.

Yes. The raw amount of removing text is dumb with 4kids.
But those are the only times that their censoring is particularly dumb.
Hell, I've give them CREDIT for the amount of times they've changed things like bars to restaurants... while overprotective is something I can at least defend.

Well I wasn't exactly referring to all the edits, just that some of them were incredibly uneeded...

Like giving Amy Rose a seatbelt...

I'm okay with them editing out bars and replacing alcohol with something else like Pepsi, but then there's being a bit too exsessive...

 

[Burruni]

Okay yeah good point...

But that's a mess of it's own...

Well I wasn't exactly referring to all the edits, just that some of them were incredibly uneeded...

Like giving Amy Rose a seatbelt...

Yes.
Most of 4kids edits are uneeded.
But if you remove the obvious cheap shot of all the text they remove from things because... reasons
Most of them come out as little more than trying to make the scene easier to view, adjusting from bits of Japanese culture that may have been lost to the audience, or "rubber padding" things like changing beer to sodas and adding seatbelts.
Edit: Not targetting you specifically on this. Its just that 4kids is forced to being the butt of jokes with their censorship when the significant ones can actually be justified. I've been meaning to do this rant for a bit.

 

[Zane13pyro]

If Smash NX is a port of WiiU and they DON'T add additional Stages and characters (that includes the 3DS stages too) what smaller changes would you want?

1. Remove duplicate custom moves from drops. At least duplicate equipment can be sold and trophies can be used for dioramas.
2. Custom moves for DLC characters.
3. Give Cloud English VA-ing and more Final Fantasy Music
4. Sort out the select screen.

hoping the amiibos still work lol jk i know they will i really want some of the good stages from the 3ds but customs for everyone i want XD 1 and 2 the most lowkey cloud

 

[NintenZ]

Yes.
Most of 4kids edits are uneeded.
But if you remove the obvious cheap shot of all the text they remove from things because... reasons
Most of them come out as little more than trying to make the scene easier to view, adjusting from bits of Japanese culture that may have been lost to the audience, or "rubber padding" things like changing beer to sodas and adding seatbelts.
Edit: Not targetting you specifically on this. Its just that 4kids is forced to being the butt of jokes with their censorship when the significant ones can actually be justified. I've been meaning to do this rant for a bit.

Still, was re-writing the script so that Molly wouldn't die really necessary?

 

[Burruni]

Still, was re-writing the script so that Molly wouldn't die really necessary?

Necessary? No.
But her NOT dying doesn't take anything away from the show, either.
What? Shadow gets one less 14 year old girl who he feels responsible for the death of?

 

[ChikoLad]

The main reason I heavily dislike the English Sonic X isn't even the censorship of language or symbolism and what not. While Sonic swearing like a sailor, and Rouge making BDSM jokes in the Japanese version and stuff is funny, I can obviously understand removing it.

My big problem is how they heavily change the dialogue to the point where the English version is a totally different show. The Japanese version felt like a nice way of seeing Sonic characters in different situations and giving insight to their character, while offering new characters.

The English version just feels like a bad superhero show where nothing has any emotional impact.

Sonic's confession to Amy, Molly's sacrifice, and Cosmos' sacrifice, are the biggest examples. They are some of the biggest, most emotional moments in the show that really delve into various characters, but they just butchered them. Hell, Sonic's confession to Amy was ENTIRELY removed! Like, there was NOTHING inappropriate about that scene, it was actually quite beautiful.

Also the soundtrack got completely butchered, as did the opening and ending sequences.

Necessary? No.
But her NOT dying doesn't take anything away from the show, either.
What? Shadow gets one less 14 year old girl who he feels responsible for the death of?

The original version of the scene was supposed to give off the feeling that Molly was honourably dying for her people, and later on, in the last episode, it's shown that Shadow comes to visit her grave, and that he values her as a friend. He doesn't even mope about it, he recognises her as a noble soldier.

The English version just has her chicken out at the last second and nothing is really built between her and Shadow as friends.

 

[Burruni]

The main reason I heavily dislike the English Sonic X isn't even the censorship of language or symbolism and what not. While Sonic swearing like a sailor, and Rouge making BDSM jokes in the Japanese version and stuff is funny, I can obviously understand removing it.

My big problem is how they heavily change the dialogue to the point where the English version is a totally different show. The Japanese version felt like a nice way of seeing Sonic characters in different situations and giving insight to their character, while offering new characters.

The English version just feels like a bad superhero show where nothing has any emotional impact.

Sonic's confession to Amy, Molly's sacrifice, and Cosmos' sacrifice, are the biggest examples. They are some of the biggest, most emotional moments in the show that really delve into various characters, but they just butchered them. Hell, Sonic's confession to Amy was ENTIRELY removed! Like, there was NOTHING inappropriate about that scene, it was actually quite beautiful.

Also the soundtrack got completely butchered, as did the opening and ending sequences.

Legitimately...
I can't remember what they did for Cosmos's sacrifice in the dub.
And I always felt that Sonic confessing to Amy was... just really out there for the character. But that may just be me.

 

[NintenZ]

Legitimately...
I can't remember what they did for Cosmos's sacrifice in the dub.
And I always felt that Sonic confessing to Amy was... just really out there for the character. But that may just be me.

What happened was that Tails killed her with a ray gun, but in the English dub it's completely different.

 

[Substitution]

Sonic's confession to Amy, Molly's sacrifice, and Cosmos' sacrifice, are the biggest examples. They are some of the biggest, most emotional moments in the show that really delve into various characters, but they just butchered them. Hell, Sonic's confession to Amy was ENTIRELY removed! Like, there was NOTHING inappropriate about that scene, it was actually quite beautiful.

Also the soundtrack got completely butchered, as did the opening and ending sequences.

But at least the Amy scene lived on in SonAmy shippers, who would promptly shove it down our throats.
Oh what a wonderful world it can be.

Legitimately...
I can't remember what they did for Cosmos's sacrifice in the dub.
And I always felt that Sonic confessing to Amy was... just really out there for the character. But that may just be me.

I think they replaced "I love you!" with "You're my comrade!" or something like that.
I dunno I've not seen the anime in years.

 

[MainJPW]

Also the soundtrack got completely butchered, as did the opening and ending sequences.

The soundtrack was actually shared with a couple of their other dubs which means they basically replaced original music with stock music.

And of course there's the English opening becoming a meme...go figure.

 

[Champ Gold]

Sonic X has so many problems that is even present in the Japanese script like the adaptations of Adventure 1&2

Those two arcs were so damn awful despite being the ones fans were looking forward to.

The one example of bad it was is the fight against Chaos 2. Why is Sonic AND Knuckles fighting Chaos 2?

It would have made sense if they both fought Chaos 4 or 6 together (although both of them fighting 6 made no sense considering Knuckles fought him when he revived then got the last 6 emeralds) but not Chaos 2, a fight Knuckles did alone.

Sonic X was just full of disappointment and that will never change no matter the script

 

[NintenZ]

And let's not forget everyone's favorite character!

Spoiler

Anyone know where his Keyblade is?

 

[Burruni]

Sonic X has so many problems that is even present in the Japanese script like the adaptations of Adventure 1&2

Those two arcs were so damn awful despite being the ones fans were looking forward to.

The one example of bad it was is the fight against Chaos 2. Why is Sonic AND Knuckles fighting Chaos 2?

It would have made sense if they both fought Chaos 4 or 6 together (although both of them fighting 6 made no sense considering Knuckles fought him when he revived then got the last 6 emeralds) but not Chaos 2, a fight Knuckles did alone.

Sonic X was just full of disappointment and that will never change no matter the script

Or cramming all of Sonic Battle into a like 3 episode Dragon Ball styled World Tournament.

 

[MainJPW]

Sonic X has so many problems that is even present in the Japanese script like the adaptations of Adventure 1&2

Those two arcs were so damn awful despite being the ones fans were looking forward to.

The one example of bad it was is the fight against Chaos 2. Why is Sonic AND Knuckles fighting Chaos 2?

It would have made sense if they both fought Chaos 4 or 6 together (although both of them fighting 6 made no sense considering Knuckles fought him when he revived then got the last 6 emeralds) but not Chaos 2, a fight Knuckles did alone.

Sonic X was just full of disappointment and that will never change no matter the script

I really just see it as an alternate take on the events.

I just remembered the Sonic Battle adaptation; that one has to be the most drastically different change than the first two especially with Cream being the one to take out Emeral instead of Sonic.

 

[Burruni]

I probably have the weirdest fixation on ONE part of Sonic Battle.
In the first real cutscene of Sonic awakening Emerl, there's a sound effect that plays when Sonic flips around that's unheard of ANYWHERE ELSE in the game.
And I swear to the mun it's the same sound effect as toggling around the damn character select screen in the PS1 Space Jam game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MicqBxFYUVA At about 59 seconds to a minute.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce5ESG2he2I and skip to 1:25.

 

[MainJPW]

I probably have the weirdest fixation on ONE part of Sonic Battle.
In the first real cutscene of Sonic awakening Emerl, there's a sound effect that plays when Sonic flips around that's unheard of ANYWHERE ELSE in the game.
And I swear to the mun it's the same sound effect as toggling around the damn character select screen in the PS1 Space Jam game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MicqBxFYUVA At about 59 seconds to a minute.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce5ESG2he2I and skip to 1:25.

I remember that sound, isn't it literally the spinning mace sound effect from SA1 & 2?

 

[Champ Gold]

I really just see it as an alternate take on the events.

I just remembered the Sonic Battle adaptation; that one has to be the most drastically different change than the first two especially with Cream being the one to take out Emeral instead of Sonic.

Sonic Battle was average but fine but man the sole fact that SA2 got screwed over due to Chris telling Shadow to help the others instead of Amy rubbed me the wrong way

 

[Burruni]

I remember that sound, isn't it literally the spinning mace sound effect from SA1 & 2?

....
Man.
It says something that, despite having a Dreamcast...
What I associated that sound with is the Space Jam game instead of 2 of the few great games on the Dreamcast.

Edit: The human mind is the weirdest thing.

 

[---]

To be honest, I didn't even know Sonic the Hedgehog had a video game/was a video game character until I saw pictures in Nintendo Power a year or two after I watched reruns of AoStH on Toon Disney.

I'm a sucker for Road Runner cartoons, so that show is a guilty pleasure of mine. The Opening theme and Robotnik's theme are nostalgia trips.

 

[Burruni]

To be honest, I didn't even know Sonic the Hedgehog had a video game/was a video game character until I saw pictures in Nintendo Power a year or two after I watched reruns of AoStH on Toon Disney.

I'm a sucker for Road Runner cartoons, so that show is a guilty pleasure of mine. The Opening theme and Robotnik's theme are nostalgia trips.

Honestly, if I didn't HAVE a dreamcast my first exposure to Sonic would've been the OVA and the Christmas Special.
And yes there's a sonic christmas special in which Santa acts as Yoda to Sonic.
Edit: The weirdest thing OF that special is that it's clearly AoSTH's Sonic and Tails & everything.
But it also has Sally.

 

[NintenZ]

Sonic Battle was average but fine but man the sole fact that SA2 got screwed over due to Chris telling Shadow to help the others instead of Amy rubbed me the wrong way

I would've just been fine with it if they either used Amy or this girl,

I mean she does have an incredibly uncanny resemblance to Maria so it'd make sense for her to be the one to tell Shadow.

Instead they opted to use the resident Marty Stew...

 

[MainJPW]

I would've just been fine with it if they either used Amy or this girl,

I mean she does have an incredibly uncanny resemblance to Maria so it'd make sense for her to be the one to tell Shadow.

Instead they opted to use the resident Marty Stew...

....Who is that? I don't remember who that is lol.

 

[NintenZ]

....Who is that? I don't remember who that is lol.

I think her name was Helen? I dunno...

 

[Burruni]

I would've just been fine with it if they either used Amy or this girl,

I mean she does have an incredibly uncanny resemblance to Maria so it'd make sense for her to be the one to tell Shadow.

Instead they opted to use the resident Marty Stew...

Gary Stu is the term for a male Mary sue, for future reference

....Who is that? I don't remember who that is lol.

One of Chris's Classmates.
I'm like 40% sure she was blind.

 

[SuperMii3D]

Im about to binge watch the Japanese Sonic X. Im curious about the differences between the two versions.

 

[BandanaWaddleDee]

Honestly, for as bad as Sonic X was, at least it gave us this one awesome character

 

[MainJPW]

I think her name was Helen? I dunno...

I'm like 40% sure she was blind.

I remember her being in a wheelchair, the fact that she's standing up is what throws me off.

 

[SuperMii3D]

I remember her being in a wheelchair, the fact that she's standing up is what throws me off.

This, Im sure she was in a wheelchair, so seeing her standing surprised me....

 

[Schnee117]

Killer Instinct Season 3, KI World Cup and other KI stuff has started here for those who care about KI:
http://www.twitch.tv/maximilian_dood

 

[Burruni]

I remember her being in a wheelchair, the fact that she's standing up is what throws me off.

Wheelchair.
That was it.
I knew she was disabled in some form.
But since she was standing I was unsure about wheelchair so I took the glossy eyes for blindness.

There was a tendency...

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't think this dub is accurate

I don't think "Niichan" translates to "Dan"

The character's name IS Dan, but I don't think she's calling him by his name

 

[Bedoop]

Detective Pikachu has QTEs
Ohmyfavorite
Also, Pikachu hitting on Human Ladies.
Good job Pikachu.
Goodjob.

 

[---]

Honestly, if I didn't HAVE a dreamcast my first exposure to Sonic would've been the OVA and the Christmas Special.
And yes there's a sonic christmas special in which Santa acts as Yoda to Sonic.
Edit: The weirdest thing OF that special is that it's clearly AoSTH's Sonic and Tails.
But it also has Sally.

I remember seeing the OVA & SM VHS tapes at Blockbuster when I was younger and wondering who all those characters on the covers were. Is that some sort of red Australian mouse? What the heck is a Metal Sonic? Why is there a girl hanging out with Sonic/Tails?

 

[ChikoLad]

Legitimately...
I can't remember what they did for Cosmos's sacrifice in the dub.
And I always felt that Sonic confessing to Amy was... just really out there for the character. But that may just be me.

The Japanese version of Cosmo's sacrifice was a fairly long scene depicting Tails' inner struggle and outright refusal to shoot Cosmo. In particular, there is a part where he solemnly asks everyone to leave the room as they try to come up with alternatives. While outside, Knuckles gets flustered about the whole situation, getting angry about how Tails is even considering shooting Cosmo, and is upsetting Cream and Amy. Rouge steps in and has to talk some sense into him. Back in with Tails, Eggman tries to convince him to do it, having to make Tails face the harsh reality of it all. Then Cosmo assures him as best as she can too, but Tails is too frustrated to listen. In the end he just sort of breaks, shooting the cannon out of frustration more than anything else.

In the English version, it's literally just:
Tails: "Cosmo I don't want you to go!"
Cosmo: "Don't worry Tails we will always be friends lol"
Tails: "lol OK thanks for being my fwiend Cosmo"
*shoots her*

#straightupfriendzoned

Also Sonic confessing to Amy wasn't out of character. He loves her, but loves his freedom more.

 

[Burruni]

Detective Pikachu has Pikachu.. hitting on Human Ladies.
Good job Pikachu.
Goodjob.

Danny DeVito confirmed.

I remember seeing the OVA & SM VHS tapes at Blockbuster when I was younger and wondering who all those characters on the covers were. Is that some sort of red Australian mouse? What the heck is a Metal Sonic? Why is there a girl hanging out with Sonic/Tails?

That is also the OVA where Robotnik casually has a hostile takeover of NotAmerica just to send a message and forces said girl to be his bride.
Best Robotnik.

Edit:

Also Sonic confessing to Amy wasn't out of character. He loves her, but loves his freedom more.

I have never gotten this impression. To me it's always been that Amy's a fanatic low-threat stalker that Sonic tolerates.

 

[MainJPW]

Edit: I have never gotten this impression. To me it's always been that Amy's a fanatic low-threat stalker that Sonic tolerates.

I can see it honestly, when ever Amy's in danger he does seem visibly upset. The official bio for Amy also states he cares for her.

 

[ChikoLad]

Danny DeVito confirmed.


That is also the OVA where Robotnik casually has a hostile takeover of NotAmerica just to send a message and forces said girl to be his bride.
Best Robotnik.

Edit: I have never gotten this impression. To me it's always been that Amy's a fanatic low-threat stalker that Sonic tolerates.

I'm talking about the Sonic X version (though it's been implied in a few Sonic games that he loves her). Sonic does have romantic feelings for her, he straight up admits it, but he doesn't want to commit to her. There is even a whole scene with Amy accepting this fact, that he values freedom above all else.

There is actually an internal "Sonic bible" at SEGA, and one of the rules is that Sonic isn't allowed to commit to relationships (hence, Archie have stopped doing it), but he can fall in love.

Also Amy isn't obsessive or a stalker, at least not when portrayed correctly.