Swag Halloween Mafia --- swag NEVER ends

[Ashemu]

uhh i probably wont post content irl today but if we hold off on hammer i can try to re-read everybody tomorrow if i feel motivated

 

[Ashemu]

also joey outing maven as vt was the funniest thing today if only i had the patience to not out then dodge the scumkill on that

 

[Ashemu]

with the knowledge that JimMo is half the team, y do you guys think kantrip died

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Anyway I'm out for now. Putting a mafia game up and then I wanna continue playing Omega Ruby.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I already have. Your interest in Orbo is not the same as your interest in Joker. I've quoted all but one of your posts asking about it. You've not asked others about it outside of Gheb save for a general post about it earlier. You say it's to not prevent information, but you talking about it isn't preventing information. It's just asking what others think about a scumread of yours. You say "this has been my approach all game" but I don't think this approach is that successful.You point out that you did the same for me but at the time of doing it, my interaction with the game had been brief at best and mostly conducted with Ryker. Doing that sort of thing, baiting for others' thoughts on me, makes sense in that light because I had interacted with very few people and so you couldn't see those connections. That's not true for Joker, though. He was very active and talked to a lot of people D1. You don't need to look for those same connections at present because they're already there, in thread. Gheb already pointed out that he didn't want anything to do with a Ruy lynch D1 and I know he's also got lines to Maven, Joey, myself, and Kantrip. You're not seeking to apply pressure to him or his potential mates. You just floated a question out there and saw who bit.

Joker has hardly been active outside of day1 though, and hasn't interacted with many people in-depth (more than you by the start of day3, but that wasn't a hard feat.
So I wouldn't say that it doesn't make sense in this context. I literally said before "I pointed at Joker and then things drifted in another direction", like I said, there's more to the day than just the first few irl days. You're right that I wasn't full on applying pressure on him, but I did apply pressure. Which is exactly what I claimed to do. A vote + a general post which garnered responses. Whether the approach is succesful or not is not a scumtell, btw.

Meanwhile, you keep asking about Orbo and trying to drag more **** out of him. You ask others why they townread him and when they don't respond with what you want, you try to insinuate they're wrong and that they should think this instead. You seem way more invested on figuring that read out or at least convincing others that they're wrong on it. If I didn't know your reads, I would say that you think Joker is null and that Orbo is scum. You're acting that backwards on it.

What? I insinuate they're wrong? I do not see where you're getting that from, I've outlined my thoughts and I see no reason why you would take a different answer for it other than the amount of attention I divert to it being disproportionate (which is only true to you because you're choose not to accept my reasoning). Is that weird considering that Orboknown is actually active and pursuing him is more fruitful (something I indirectly mentioned a few posts ago saying that Joker was pretty much AFK)?

So, no, I'm not really convinced that what you're doing is what you're saying you're doing. Your actions don't simply line up whatsoever and I don't really buy them. Saying "you need to get it through your skull" is certainly not helping me believe you. If you think I'm wrong, go back and prove it yourself, don't just tell me I'm wrong.

I'm not "just telling you you're wrong", you're simply chosing to not believe my points for no reason, when they line up. Let me summarize:

- You say you pressured Joker but you're not pressuring him
- You spend more time on Orbo than your scumread
- You insinuate everyone who does not tell you what you "want to hear" about Orbo is wrong

Here are your responses:
I did pressure Joker, but not full-out. I gave you my reason why I did this, it was to see how others react. If you go back in the game, you can see that I've done this before with my major scumread of that day. Like I said, I pointed people in that direction with a vote, and then direction drifted elsewhere. Who is to say I wouldn't have redirected as I did with you? It's not JUST about preventing information (which I do think is a consequence to consider, it's easier to cling on to someone else's reasoning and I'd rather see a person's thought process after I point them to something) (which once again is something I've done multiple times this game), there's multiple reasons to it.

I do spend more time on Orbo, because he is there and I can solve him. I want him solved. First you chastise me for having him as a null and now you're chastising me for putting too much effort into him? What? I'd rather people spend time on slots that are not AFK.

And last, this is simply a twist. What I want to hear are good reasons to find Orboknown town, and what I've been hearing I do not deem as solid reasons. Hence I pester people and try to dig and get the actual reason for why Orbo is town to them, outside of gut and whatnot. I still don't see what he has done is town-y (or scummy), and that's an issue to me. I do not think letting him be null IS the right response, so I divert attention to it. Could I have spent that time fleshing out my Joker read more? Not really, especially because my arguments wouldn't lead to very productive discussions (similar to my arguments on you which I also withheld partly for that reason).

For one you're simplifying the situation and then painting it in such a way that it doesn't overlap with what happened last dayphase, which it does. Then you're putting me in a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" scenario with Orboknown, while my reason is sound. Finally you misrepresent the way I'm reacting to people's Orbo reads.
and I do not see why you would choose to believe your version over mine, which stinks.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

That response after the bullet points is point by point followed by a summary of my response in the last paragraph.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

with the knowledge that JimMo is half the team, y do you guys think kantrip died

I think it was scum aiming for a goon, honestly. That's the only way that nightkill makes sense to me.

 

[Orboknown]

I'm still voting jim right?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

@ Ashemu : If anything, what do you think of his interaction with me? I like that he's trying to figure stuff out but I don't know what to make of the fact that he seems unable to see my point of view even when explained multiple times, rather choosing for his explanation at every turn, turning what I'm doing into... well, not even something scummy per se, just something inconsequent. It sort of makes sense, he had me as scum (if only by PoE) but it seems like he's made a conclusion and is looking for arguments to back it up rather than the other way around. Am I being crazy or is my explaining just booty? Would think that if Alex stays active then a lot of this game will be riding on getting a read on him so I'd like to see some other opinions.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Actually to be fair not being consequent is scummy. Doop

 

[Orboknown]

@ #HBC | Nabe
Requesting vote count

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

JimMo is -1 by my count (8, 5 to lynch) Orbo/Xonar/Alex/Ash

 

[Orboknown]

Oh thats right we have 8 alive
Thought we only had 7

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Nobody hammers before I get to read up and respond to stuff. I'm busy right now but will be back later today.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

swag 3-2

@ #HBC | Joker (1) -- Joey
@Orboknown
@ ~ Gheb ~
@ #HBC | Laundry
@Ashemu
@ Dooms
@ #HBC | ZoZo (1) -- Gheb
@Jim Morrison (4) -- Ashemu, Orboknown, Zozo, Laundry

Not voting -- Joker, Jim Morrison


[collapse=swag history]
Joker
Orboknown: Jim Morrison
Gheb: Zozo
Laundry: Gheb > Gheb > Jim Morrison
Ashemu: Laundry > Jim Morrison > Jim Morrison
Joey: Joker
Zozo: Joker > Jim Morrison
Jim Morrison
[/collapse]

5/8 votes to kill a man
day ends friday aft est
ish

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So we still have plenty of time to do things toDay before we off JM. Will look out for connections after responding to Laundry.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Unvote

 

[~ Gheb ~]

OK, so Laundry's large post essentially consists of two points

a.) Backpedaling to that old point of mine where I point out the flaw of random wagons in JR. Misconstrues it as me discouraging scumhunting. Not the first time he did it in this game.
b.) Supposedly I'm somehow connected to Ryu due to "contradictory stances". Nothing I have said about it has actually been contradictory though. If it were you'd have to point it out more thoroughly. And even if you do that you still need to explain to me how it makes me Ryu's mate. Because that idea is really far-fetched to say the least.

That's weak. The truth is that you have nothing on me whatsover. I mean, you reread the whole game for the sake of proving that I'm scum and the best you could come up with are these two points? If you yourself believed in what you've posted you wouldn't need to blow these two points that much out of proportion and make such a long, overglorified post out of it. Because the whole "content" of your case essentially boils down to nothing more than that you disagree with my point of view on wagons in this setup. That's literally all there is to it. And that's not something TownLaundry would be so confident basing a case on because he's not an idiot. Especially not in a situation like that.

You're desperate, Laundry. You really wanted this case out there for the sake of discrediting my slot or potentially even get me lynched. Because you know I caught your scummy ass for all the right reasons. It's worth noting that you're specifically reaching for points for the purpose of lumping me as Ryu's mate and that you're putting your entire focus on exposing me as a Goon specifically, rather than scum in general. If I had to guess, I'd say that you're a misguided Werewolf ... I wouldn't be surprised if you're legitimately misreading me as a Goon and hope to gain town credit through my flip. Just speculating but the town intent behind your argument is really hard to see.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So, tell me Gheb, why is Xonar scum?

Did you or did you not reread the game? If you did you couldn't have possibly missed Xonar's attempts to cockblock the Ryu lynch yesterDay. I mean, you should know about it since you were his excuse to not switch to our only successful scumlynch in this game.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Also, Gheb vanished after I dropped that post on him.

Holy ****. The desperation is sooooooooo real.

You post a case at 1:30am and complain about me "vanishing" as if I had ever actually "vanished" on a case, as in: disappeared for the sake of stalling an emerging wagon/lynch on me. No, I didn't "vanish" at all. I simply went to bed. Try harder.

Oh, and I didn't actually "vanish" after you "dropped that post" on me either.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Right now [pre reread] I'd say that Laundry is a Werewolf, with JM being the other. I don't think it's coincidence that he's so eager to specifically try to make me look like a Goon and his scumminess is right in the open for everybody to see. There's no doubt in my mind anymore that Laundry is scum.

I'm not sure about Goons now. Xonar looks like the prime candidate to be one of Ryu's mates but his point about Joker - despite all the irony in it - has merit and I don't think both of Ryu's mates would make themselves known as such by opposing Ryu's lynch so blatantly with so little reason. Right now I'm entertaining the idea that either one or the other is one of Ryu's mates and one of the main things I'll be looking out for in my reread is who has the more telling connections to Ryu between them.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Meh, **** it.

Yeh, I'm last Werewolf. I've been playing through this whole time with absolute horse**** on me but there's enough consensus that I can't win. It didn't help that I'm not fond of these set-ups (I don't know why I signed up) and that my partner didn't even play the ****ing game. **** happens, I had a bad game, whatever.

Here's the deal: I don't want the mafia to win. We don't deserve it but neither do they and I'd rather town win than whichever of Xonar/Gheb/Joker is actually scum, along with Ruy for that whack opportunistic play D1. There's no way that Ashemu/Joey/Orbo is actually scum so it's simply a matter of figuring out which of Xonar/Gheb is town. I'm popping Gheb in the head tonight. If he somehow flips town (doubt it) then Xonar has to be the last scum bussing the **** out of Joker.

Have fun kids.

 

[Orboknown]

Well that happened.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Speaking of which: Gheb's more likely scum because the only sensible mates left are Orbo/Joker. Xonar has spent all day digging into both of them, trying to find out what people have been thinking about them, and trying to get as much info as possible. I don't think that Xonar's scum with them if they are scum. There's a chance that Xonar is scum, but that's only with Gheb--Xonar's "yeh I see ur gheb scumread but honestly he's not a priority over joker" just seems gross in hindsight and his investment in Orbo/Joker says that he thinks that Joker wouldn't be scum with him.

So, regardless, Gheb should flip scum. It's just a question of whether it's Joker or Xonar who are scum with him.

It's not fun being scum where it's too easy to PoE who isn't scum.

 

[Orboknown]

Wait
You said me n joker are the likely mates but then talk all about how xonar might be a mate?...

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Right, I tripped over myself.

Gheb is for sure scum. His play is not good and his stances on the rest of scum line up perfectly with a mafiat, not to mention the paper trail between himself and Ruy. Not only that, PoE royally ****s him over, as Jim and I are not his mates and Ashemu or Joey are town. That leaves Xonar as scum with one of the two guys he's been looking at the most today that aren't me in the event that Gheb is town and that's just not nearly as likely as Gheb being scum with Ruy. So it's just a question of whether Joker, you, or Xonar is the last scum. It could be Joker, given that Gheb was trying to insinuate that Ramses was scummy for steering away from Ruy while Joker wasn't. It could be Ramses, because Ramses' read on Gheb is weird at best and scummy at worst. Or it could be you, but I have little basis for it being you.

 

[Orboknown]

Alright, thanks for the clarification

 

[Ashemu]

i forgot to actually read
i still think joker is a goon

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Sorry for being totally gone all weekend, I'm a bad person. I did check in on the thread at one point though and still didn't see anything worth commenting on, but it looks like a lot happened since then. Namely, somehow we found both werewolves? I guess that's cool... kinda wish they weren't both just sorta handed to us.

So now it's down to finding Ryu's mates. I'm actually in agreement with Laundry about Gheb, he's been... off from how I usually expect towngheb to act. I'm 90% sure that the way he's spinning the interaction between himself and Laundry is that he's pretty sure Laundry is scum, and is dragging his read on him through the mud so he can look like the golden boy when Laundry flips, and we'll all forget about how scummy Laundry told us he was.

So if it's down to me and xonar, obviously I'd vote xonar. He's been insisting that he has this strong scumread on me, which he's been pushing? I haven't felt any pressure, I'll be honest. Maybe it's because I've been gone, but I haven't seen him say anything other than "Joker was doing a good job of scumhunting on D1, then went V/LA (without telling anyone, sorry bros), therefore I think he's scum because setup reasons." Frankly I still think Joey's play looks like ass, but I don't know that he makes sense as Ryu's mate. I do think it's funny that people were saying he'd be great to keep around for content, when he's contributed none.

 

[Dooms]

Hrm. :/ I wasn't getting alerts for this game. :/

I still feel strong Joker scum (especially post-Ryu flip). He is the top of my lynch list out of non confirmed scum. Ryu and Joker interactions were shut down for most of the game due to Ryu stating that he had a confirmed town read on him and Joker sitting on me for a majority of the game.

I can't read either Xonar or Gheb :/. I like Xonar more out of the two of them because of how he has played though.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You don't need to read Gheb, he's getting shot. I'm taking Joey and Ashemu as town in this math, because one is confirmed and the other has been playing hella town.
Lynch JimMo / Shoot Gheb
Lynch Laundry / -
Leaving 3-4 town and 1-2 goon(s) (depending on Gheb flip)

Gheb was town - it's 3 town and 2 goons: from a general-town perspective PoE Joker and Orbo/Me are scum, with current interest Joker will probably die leaving it at 3 town and 1 goon, meaning Ash/Joey can lynch me/Orbo in any sequence and win (2town1scum after 1 mislynch).

Gheb was scum - it's 4 town and 1 goon: We probably lynch Joker in this scenario too, leaving Joey/Me/Orbo/Ashemu. If Joker flipped town we can do what was outlined above (lynch me/Orbo in any sequence).

Basically, in this situation the only way we lose is if Joey is scum (meaning Joker is town). I'm willing to bet the game on that, on a combination between trust in my Joey town read as well as IF Joker by some chance is town, then his game was so ****ing horrible I'd have no regrets whatsoever. (we'd be dealing with Gorf, Kantrip, and Joker all being town and playing horrible)

Mathematical win.
Pick out any errors in this method if you find anything.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Also, if you doubt Joey town, I'd like to refer back to my readlist. His reaction to Gheb's stupid wagon proposal day1 was from a purely town perspective. That on top of his play to me equals a 90% town read. Good enough tbh.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Oh right, we will also lose in scenario GhebTown if me and Orbo are scum together, but that means a lot of people have been reading Joker as scum and Orbo as town (idk what the reads on me are) and I don't find that likely.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

reading joker as scum and orbo as town both wrong*

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Alright, let me get this straight. Because Laundry - the confirmed mafioso - can't get over the fact that I hardbodied his scummy ass I'm actually considered a likely contender to be Ryu's mate now? Have you guys been asleep at the end of Day 2? I even let the Laundry wagon disintegrate to make the Ryu lynch possible in the first place. Is that what Laundry calls me having a "paper trail" to Ryu? Let's not get unreasonable now.

Here's a better plan: we lynch Laundry toDay. Then we sit back and watch as JM fails to send in his Night Kill and have ourselves an easy time figuring out who between the remaining players are Ryu's actual mates. We're not giving scum the opportunity to kill another townie toNight.

Vote Laundry

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm popping Gheb in the head tonight. If he somehow flips town (doubt it) then Xonar has to be the last scum bussing the **** out of Joker.

This is such garbage. After I flip town there will be two goons left, not one. And how does Xonar "bussing" Joker have anything to do with him being scummy? Nothing you say adds up to anything that makes sense. Just shut up and die.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm actually in agreement with Laundry about Gheb, he's been... off from how I usually expect towngheb to act.

Amazing logic right there. Let's randomly lump the guy who made the Ryu lynch on Day 2 possible and who hardbodied Laundry mercilessly with Ryu - despite how precious little sense that makes - because of some twisted, innacurate perception of how we "usually" expect "townGheb" to act. You really make it hard for me to decide whether you're scum or just really ****ing sick in the head. Other than tunneling Joey for whatever dumb reason you had and tryng to distract from any constructive move you haven't done ****.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I even let the Laundry wagon disintegrate

?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

?

At the time where it came down to decide between lynching Laundry and lynching Ryu ... at the end of Day 2 I was sitting on Laundry quite comfortably and a Ryu lynch was far from guaranteed at that point. You know, I didn't need to switch to make sure that Ryu's lynch actually happens considering how damn right I was about Laundry. I could've just kept sitting there and reap the reward of massive pro-town credit. Switched anyway.

 

[Orboknown]

Is jimbo in modkill range?