SuSa's matchup thread (and redoing Ratios)

[Silly Kyle]

Peach can totally **** Snake up!!

 

[napZzz]

am I crazy for thinking fox vs. snake is even?

 

[Berserker.]

am I crazy for thinking fox vs. snake is even?

Why do you think that Fox is even with Snake? Ask Susa about Fox, maybe she
(I mean he) knows

 

[LaIotun]

Why do you think that Fox is even with Snake? Ask Susa about Fox, maybe she knows

She?

 

[SuSa]

Lulz... :3 I got a she again...


Snake vs Fox is stupidly, very very stupidly, in Snake's favor.

You just have to know the matchup.

Ftilt will stop all grounded approaches (save usmash if he times it right), but if your 112%~ or higher, you know that usmash is coming. Watch for it and powershield.

You have to approach or crouch in this matchup and REACT to what Fox does. Don't be the first one to throw out a move.

If he double jumps:
He's an idiot and will come down with a drill, or shine stall. If he shines SH uair him if possible. Otherwise wait.

If he SH's:
Nair or dair if he's facing you. Utilt both....

If he FH's:
Probably doing a rising fair, shield the first 2 hits then OoS uair or mortar. (If mortar, run away he may shine it)

If he's not jumping to approach:
Ftilt > everything

If he's camping with lasers:
Crouch if you have the lead

 

[Berserker.]

So it's a 60:40 or 65:35 Snake. If it is let's go find ways on how to beat Marth, unless it's impossible (XP)<--Face, being Ken combo'ed is so sad but you doing the Ken combo is happy. Usually music like "Eye of the Tiger" motivates me (duh, it's so justice--ish) I usually imagine it and it makes me confident and not pressured (Except that I never even finished Boss battles on intense, when I get to Tabuu, I get pressured and randomly get stupidly killed by off-waves or explosion teleport)

 

[napZzz]

I got wrecked by zetons fox in a pools match last tourney I was at. I was like..wut lol. I guess I just didn't know what to do. He read my every move and I kept trying to camp him, but the lasers were annoying.

I wanted to switch to meta knight but he was such a nice kid that I felt bad. He was like complimenting me and being all generous. He even got me a chair cuz mine was wobbling and he noticed it. lol

:S

 

[SuSa]

I don't even think I mentioned pulling a single grenade.

So yah, you was doing it wrong.

 

[napZzz]

You see, if I cant camp it I usually dont do so hot with my snake. THats usually when I play diddy/mk.

Yeah, I kept trying to figure out ways to just get around the lasers with nades but it didn't really work.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

You see, if I cant camp it I usually dont do so hot with my snake. THats usually when I play diddy/mk.

Yeah, I kept trying to figure out ways to just get around the lasers with nades but it didn't really work.

That goes back to what I have said before. xD Even though Snake can camp people, it not always the best thing to do so. I think around a 1/3 of the cast it is a better option to just forego grenades and just take a solo approach. Link is one that you can camp since it is rather easy to PS those projectiles from a distance, but I think it is so much easier to just run up PS past him and ftilt him. Then edgeguard until the stock is gone. Repeat 2 more times.

 

[Berserker.]

Uhh.. Who put there in Smashwiki that Link VS Snake is 50:50?

 

[Princz15]

Probably some Link Main. They swear that match up is even just because Izaw, a top Link ripped apart supposedly Europe's best snake in some friendlies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr4VlsaIOtk&feature=related


Though I will agree that its not as easy as we think, because Link has alot of stupid **** llike Zairs being mad long for no reason, not to mention it has a weird thing at the end of the Zair that has 2 hits or somethin like that. It's not like toon link where we can just powersheild and jab or Ftilt, well spaced zairs can be a pain. He can camp us just as hard as we camp him due to him having arrows bombs and a suprisingly annoying boomarang.

Utilt doesn't kill as low cause of his heaviness, and just like TL, uairs can be a little annoying. Out ranging him can be a problem sometimes because of well, his LONG SWORD, I'm pretty sure Snake's utilt clanks with his first jab. He doesn't have as much problem as the rest of the cast in killing us, it's still hard for him just not as hard. Lol @ you thinking your about to successfully approach with DAC, theres a 95 percent chance you'll get a bomb or arrow to the face or worst case scenario: you DACUSing at like 120, chances are your gonna eat a F-smash to the face and PROBABLY die.

So yea those are just a few things that i thought i should point out. I mean we still very well win this match up, we just got to play it correctly, well thats pretty much for any match up lol. I just though that think we overlooked this and just said "ahh link sucks we automatically winn durrrr", That's certainly not the case.

60:40 probably. It definatly shouldn't be any higher like a few of you posted. Oh and anyone thinking the TL match up is also 60:40 or higher, you will NEVER EVER think this again after playing Jash (Arguably Best TL in the country) and will be like okay this **** 55:45. Just like when everyone thought bowser vs snake was a walk in the park. If you see Vex play you'll realize why its not. In the hobo thread i cant remeber which one. Even Ultimate Razer was suprised and was like "oh **** i though it was supposed to be 70:30 snake, i guess not now =/" lol

 

[6Mizu]

snake>link
55:45 snake fav.

 

[Berserker.]

Only 55:45? Why?

 

[smashkng]

Link boards say things that aren't true. Link's recovery is so bad that even Snake can gimp him with aerials (because often with Link it's so that if you air dodge you're dead because you're too low to recover back).

This is a bad proof. Calzorz killed himself in the 1st stock and he made many misstakes in that match. He also should try to throw him offstage instead of down throwing, abusing Link's offstage issues. I think it's 65/35 Snake. I think Calzorz in that video lacked knowledge of the Link matchup.

 

[Staco]

This isnt europes best snake in my opinion.
Calzorz placed 25th at the tourney with at least 3 Snakes placing better than him.

And Izaw is only putting videos up, where he plays good and wins and never, when he gets *****. (some IC player ***** him all the time, so why arent there some vids of that matches? xD)
I bet Calzorz didnt even know that Izaw will upload this matches.
You shouldnt forget that this are friendlys.
I know that some Link was close to beat M2K in a friendly match. MK vs. Link 50:50? haha xD

 

[6Mizu]

Only 55:45? Why?

I dont play link so im not the person to explain this....sry.

Link boards say things that aren't true. Link's recovery is so bad that even Snake can gimp him with aerials (because often with Link it's so that if you air dodge you're dead because you're too low to recover back).

This is a bad proof. Calzorz killed himself in the 1st stock and he made many misstakes in that match. He also should try to throw him offstage instead of down throwing, abusing Link's offstage issues. I think it's 65/35 Snake. I think Calzorz in that video lacked knowledge of the Link matchup.

Link may have a sucky recovery but all good links make up for it.....Believe me I know...for one thing my bestest friend (i consider him my brother) plays link and I barely ever gimp him.

 

[Lawz.]

Only 55:45? Why?

It's not 55:45. I used to think it was, but then I got smart and realized how easy it can be for Snake. Most Link players have never played against a decent Snake anyway. Only a handful really have and those are the ones who actually go to offline tourneys.

It's more around 60:40 or 65:35ish

 

[6Mizu]

It's not 55:45. I used to think it was, but then I got smart and realized how easy it can be for Snake. Most Link players have never played against a decent Snake anyway. Only a handful really have and those are the ones who actually go to offline tourneys.

It's more around 60:40 or 65:35ish

I think we really need to think this through....soooooo

 

[Berserker.]

Who will make the chart for Snake's match up?

 

[6Mizu]

Susa will????
yes? no?

 

[Yumewomiteru]

MrEh will, lets go troll the bowser board until he does

 

[6Mizu]

lol....that's not nice.

 

[Berserker.]

I saw the Bowser boards match up, MK VS Bowser was only 55:45 MK? O_O

 

[Loops]

Is there a match-up thread for Ice Climbers or like where i can find how to counter them.
I play an experienced Ice Climbers and everytime he gets a grab its over a stock is gone. I use my nades and tilts to space as much as possible but sometimes he gets the grab with a de-sync ice. Is it possible to DI out of the grab, please help. Thanks.

 

[Berserker.]

Nope there's no match up thread about the Ice climbers but maybe just posts can help

You can 0 death Nana and pull out a grenade when they attempt to chaingrab you. Don't approach them!! Camp them and spam, grenades, f-tilts and b-airs. Ice blocks are not much of a big deal for Snake since Snake is a great camper. Ice Climbers have short ranged moves while Snake has long-ranged, strong and relatively fast moves on GROUND. You can knock off Nana off the stage and meteor smash her and plus if she attempts to recover back to the stage, the recover won't travel much distance since your keeping Popo away from Nana then Nana will fall to her death then afterwards you can kill Popo. Ice Climber's hardest match up is Snake so you have the big favor but don't underestimate them since they have extreme juggling and since your heavy, you are fairly easy to combo but hard to KO. You also be careful of your recovery because they can spike you while you do your recovery so you need to have good DI.

 

[Loops]

Hmm,
Whats the 0 death for Nana. Is it the meteor smash cause the only one i remember snake having is the laggy fair :S ? Sometimes i plant the nades but then after i do that it won't always blow up when i want it to ultimately making me lose the stock.
Lastly when your done camping and they begin to approach i understand how to spam my f-tilts but my b-airs explain?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I thought it was abusing the fact that if Nana and popo get seperated, Nana will run straight for Popo. Even if it means going past you. You abuse Fsmash in that case.

 

[Berserker.]

It might be too laggy since before killing Nana, Popo will hit Snake unless Popo is too far from Snake.

 

[SNk.]

It might be too laggy since before killing Nana, Popo will hit Snake unless Popo is too far from Snake.

but on FD this works like 90% of the time..
you only have to seperate both, best but the most dangerous chance that i know is to grab nana or popo and throwing them with Fthrow or Bthrow...
Ftilt the other IC from you and then w8 for Nana to come to you, Fmash and profit

 

[Berserker.]

I checked the other match ups in the other character boards here's the difference:

1st ratio means our ratio, 2nd ratio means their ratio and the third one is what ratio I agree with:


Meta Knight 45:55 55:45 None
Snake 55:45 Port 4 None duh Duh
Wario 55:45 40:60 Our MU
Falco 55:45 45:55 Both
Diddy 55:45 45:55 Both
DDD 50:50 45:55 Our MU
Marth 45:55 No match up Our MU
G & W 60:40 40:60 Both
Pikachu 60:40 50:50 Our MU
Olimar 45:55 40:60 None
Ice climbers 60:40 70:30 Their MU
ROB 60:40 45:55 Our MU
Kirby 65:35 60:40 Their MU
Lucario 60:40 60:40 Both
ZSS 55:45 55:45 Both
Toon Link 60:40 55:45 Our MU
Pit 55:45 45:55 OUR MU
Donkey Kong 55:45 50:50 Our MU but still hard
Peach 60:40 60:40 Both
Luigi 60:40 55:45 Our MU
Fox 60:40 55:45 Our MU
Wolf 60:40 50:50 Our MU
Sonic 60:40 60:40 Both
Shiek 60:40 40:60 Both
Bowser 65:35 60:40 Our MU
Zelda 70:30 70:30 Both O_o
Squirtle 60:40 60:40 Both
Ivysaur 60:40 50:50 Our MU
Charizard 65:35 60:40 Our MU
Ike 60:40 60:40 Both
Lucas 65:35 70:30 Our MU (Lucas' air games is a bit good)
Mario 70:30 55:45 Our MU
Ness 55:45 60:40 Their MU
Yoshi 60:40 Unknown Duh
Samus 60:40 65:35 Our MU
Jigglypuff 80:20 65:35 Our MU O_O
C. Falcon 75:25 Unknown Duh
Link 65:35 55:45 Dunno?
Ganondorf 80:20 70:30 Our MU

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Guys, Mario boards is re-discussing Snake again, can y'all help, plz?

Link:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=256410

vs

My main vs my secondary main. O__O

 

[cenel]

I play Mr-R best marth in Europe alot offline and I think Marth-Snake is 50-50 or slightly in marth's favour at a high level of play. Mainly because marth has an easier time getting hits in than snake does. Once he gets a hit in he can pretty much juggle u for alot% most of the time, since snakes options suck in the air. If it's near the ledge he can even gimp you on low% or make you blow yourself up to recover and taking alot damage. Marth's fair(range,speed, delay) is just ridiculous to get around for snake if spaced well. Another thing is snake has hardly any good safe moves and is usually open when he misses while marth hardly is ever. Luckily marth has killing problems and snake can survive until higher %. The thing snake has on marth is his projectiles, his superb damage output, overal better groundgame, tech chase, survives higher and moves that kill early. Avoid gimps and it's slightly in your favour

At lower level of play its definatly 60-40 or more for snake.

MK is 50-50 and is easier than marth it seems.

I hardly post ever on smashboards, i'll try to be more active on snake boards.

my 2 cents best snake in holland

 

[Jim Morrison]

Cenel.

Ramin heeft gewoon die mooyboy mindgames.

 

[cenel]

Probably some Link Main. They swear that match up is even just because Izaw, a top Link ripped apart supposedly Europe's best snake in some friendlies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr4VlsaIOtk&feature=related


Though I will agree that its not as easy as we think, because Link has alot of stupid **** llike Zairs being mad long for no reason, not to mention it has a weird thing at the end of the Zair that has 2 hits or somethin like that. It's not like toon link where we can just powersheild and jab or Ftilt, well spaced zairs can be a pain. He can camp us just as hard as we camp him due to him having arrows bombs and a suprisingly annoying boomarang.

Utilt doesn't kill as low cause of his heaviness, and just like TL, uairs can be a little annoying. Out ranging him can be a problem sometimes because of well, his LONG SWORD, I'm pretty sure Snake's utilt clanks with his first jab. He doesn't have as much problem as the rest of the cast in killing us, it's still hard for him just not as hard. Lol @ you thinking your about to successfully approach with DAC, theres a 95 percent chance you'll get a bomb or arrow to the face or worst case scenario: you DACUSing at like 120, chances are your gonna eat a F-smash to the face and PROBABLY die.

So yea those are just a few things that i thought i should point out. I mean we still very well win this match up, we just got to play it correctly, well thats pretty much for any match up lol. I just though that think we overlooked this and just said "ahh link sucks we automatically winn durrrr", That's certainly not the case.

60:40 probably. It definatly shouldn't be any higher like a few of you posted. Oh and anyone thinking the TL match up is also 60:40 or higher, you will NEVER EVER think this again after playing Jash (Arguably Best TL in the country) and will be like okay this **** 55:45. Just like when everyone thought bowser vs snake was a walk in the park. If you see Vex play you'll realize why its not. In the hobo thread i cant remeber which one. Even Ultimate Razer was suprised and was like "oh **** i though it was supposed to be 70:30 snake, i guess not now =/" lol

Calzorz is not the best snake in eu he placed 33rd at TSL and that vid with izaw is from tsl friendly's there were like 5 or 6 snakes placing far above him. Izaw just loves to HYPE his vids to make himself look better. SNAKE-LINK don't you have anything better to discuss? It's 60-40 or 65-35 for snake Don't make me sum up all the advantages. Mr-R's link is better than izaws and I play it regularly 2 lol.

 

[rofljont]

i feel like i didnt contribut to this yet

Originally Posted by SuSa
Meta Knight 55-45 MK (hopefully 50:50 not too long from now!) looks good
Snake - 55:45 Port 4 (I'm still serious) possible but i dont think port makes that much of a difference
Wario - 50:50 gimp can easily even out the game
Falco - 50:50 strictly talking about playing a top level falco like larry
Diddy Kong - 55:45 Snake sounds right only problem is diddy has harsh ground controll
King Dedede - 50:50
Marth - 55:45 Marth, marth is ****ing hard
Mr. Game & Watch - 60:40
Pikachu no real experience here
Olimar - 55:45 Olimar
Ice Climbers - 60:40 Snake
R.O.B. - 60:40 Snake
Kirby - 60:40 Snake i think 65:35 is a bit harsh
Lucario - 60:40 (maybe 55:45... still debating)
Zero Suit Samus - 50:50
Toon Link - 60:40 Snake
Pit - 55:45 Snake
Donkey Kong - 55:45 Snake
Peach - 60:40 Snake
Luigi - 60:40 Snake
Fox - 60:40 Snake
Wolf - 60:40 Snake
Sonic - 60:40 Snake
Sheik - 60:40 Snake
Bowser - 65:35 Snake
Zelda - 70:30 Snake
Squirtle - 60:40 Snake
Ivysaur - 60:40 Snake
Charizard - 65:35 Snake
Ike - 60:40 Snake
Lucas - 65:35 Snake
Mario - 70:30 Snake
Ness - 55:45 Snake psyche 60:40 for sure
Yoshi - 60:40 Snake
Samus - 60:40 Snake
Jigglypuff - 80:20 Snake
Captain Falcon - 75:25 Snake
Link - 65:35 Snake
Ganondorf - 80:20 Snake

all the ones i didnt touch looked good

 

[napZzz]

snake players like to hype up their character too much. : |

izaw sucks.

@cenel- I agree completely.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I honestly think Link does well against Snakes. He can camp better, has more range, and pretty good kill setups too, plus he lives forever.

 

[napZzz]

snake can rush down link it doesn't even matter. But I agree with link being able to camp snake

 

[Berserker.]

Also z-air is very problematic for Snake and also Link has good tilts like Snake. Beware of U-tilt when your at 150% and above >_> and lastly Link has better air games than you. The things that put this match up in Snake's favor is just because of Link's recovery and that you can approach Link too. The thing in this match up is to powershield his projectiles and mindgames. That's all Link is pretty hard compared to the other low-tiered characters