Alright! Two ties in a row! (It's funny how my more standard stages lost and these completely wacky ones are the winners.)
Anyways, I don't have a stage for Round 5, (I started playing video games way after the cut-off.) so don't wait for me when it comes to that.
Yay, Sonic lost the "handhelds only" clause! That means I can use a super cool design I made based on a console game, and it comes with
the return of rail grinding to boot!
And finally, some commentary about the judges' comments about my stage, the Interdream Zone. (I'm not requesting that my score should be changed, I just want to question some criticism and open up discussion. Also, changing scores would just cause an unnecessary hassle.)
psb123's Grades:
Interdream Zone by Salcan:
Originality: 9/10
The use of such an unexpected Gen 5 feature and the unique setting it brings would have certainly led to a perfect score. The only thing that held you back from that was that the Pokemon that appear in the dream zones do the exact same things they do as Pokeball pokemon which you can get on any stage. If they did different stuff you would have had a perfect score here.
I understand that stages should do unique things so that they're interesting and provide a different experience compared to other stages. But after thinking over the issue you bring up for a while, I found that what you want from the stage (the Pokémon using different moves) would be impossible to provide without creating consequences that I don't like.
- The Pokémon from the Dream World use different moves compared to their Poké Ball equivalents.
If this were to happen, then two objects that look exactly the same would function differently. This would confuse players, which is bad and should be avoided.
For example, let's look at Electrode. Electrode in Smash Bros. uses the move Explosion. After a short while, Electrode explodes and deals out lots of damage and heavy knockback. It can be grabbed and thrown just before it explodes if an opponent is getting away. Sometimes it fizzles out and doesn't explode, but sometimes Electrode is just faking players out and explodes soon afterward. Unlike most Poké Ball Pokémon, Explosion affects the summoner too!
In Pokémon Dream World, Pokémon sometimes came with special moves. Voltorb from the Dream World had a chance of having the move Natural Gift, which it can't learn normally in Generation 5. (Unlike many of the moves Pokémon from the Dream World could've had, Voltorb still does not learn Natural Gift normally, which is why its the example.) When the Voltorb evolves into Electrode, it will keep Natural Gift. Let's adapt Natural Gift into Smash Bros. I'll say it consumes a nearby item, then releases a pulse around the user that looks different, has different range, does different damage and knockback, and has a different secondary effect depending on the consumed item.
Let's say that on the Interdream Zone stage, while Electrode from Poké Balls use Explosion, while Electrode from the Dream World use Natural Gift. Right away, there's an issue. Since most Pokémon look exactly the same as other Pokémon of that species, (Most, not all, and I can explain why Shiny forms can't be used.) a player could confuse a Poké Ball Electrode for a Dream World Electrode, or vice versa. If the player wanted to hide in Natural Gift, they could take an Explosion to the face! If they planned to throw Electrode at a Samus charging Charge Shot from a distance so that Electrode uses Explosion on Samus, they could find that they can't throw Electrode (because its a Dream World one) so Samus charges Charge Shot fully and uses it on the player as soon as Natural Gift ends. Both scenarios are not fun to be in, as the player gets hurt because what they expected would happen did not line up with what did happen and they physically could not figure out why. (Yes, one comes from a colored orb of light and the other is from a Pokéball, but it can be easy to lose track of items in a scuffle and the camera focuses on characters, not items, so the Electrode could have been off-screen for a bit.)
While I admit that Electrode is a rather convenient example, (as Explosion hurts the summoner) any case where the effect of an object is different and it isn't clear that the object will do a different thing is bad. (I'm not the biggest fan of Hammers and Golden Hammers, although I like the Super and Poison Mushrooms since they look different. If you pay attention, you'll never accidentally run into a Poison Mushroom when you wanted a Super Mushroom.)
I could make Pokémon from the Dream World look different, but that would be breaking canon for no real benefit. Fun fact: Pokémon from the Dream World couldn't be Shiny under any circumstances, and Shiny Pokémon never appear in Smash Bros. anyway. So that's out.
- Create new Pokémon for the Interdream Zone.
This doesn't have any problems on its own, but the moment the Interdream Zone is theoretically revealed as a stage, some people will complain, "The Dream World Pokémon on this stage are just like Poké Ball Pokémon, so why aren't they Poké Ball Pokémon?" I'd be one of them. Besides, making Pokémon models and attacks that only end up on one stage is silly when they could be easily made into Poké Ball Pokémon that can be used on every stage, so more fun is generated from the same amount of Pokémon models.
Also, the Interdream Zone is trying to reference as many areas of the Island of Dreams as possible, which means a large variety of Pokémon are needed for it to work. Piggybacking off of the Poké Ball Pokémon list is the most efficient way to get a large variety of Pokémon. (Saffron City, the stage with the most unique Pokémon, only has five Pokémon that appear. That's a bit small for the Dream World) Once the Poké Ball Pokémon are added to the stage, just having a couple of unique Pokémon would feel awkward as the unique Pokémon would feel like random additions to the list of Poké Ball Pokémon. (And making 21 unique Pokémon to balance it out would just be too much.)
- But aren't there stages that have unique Pokémon? Just make the new Interdream Zone Pokémon like those?
Those Pokémon aren't Poké Ball Pokémon because they have effects that Poké Ball Pokémon can't have (too powerful or affect the stage) or are legendary. I can prove this by going through every Pokémon stage.
Saffron City: The one hole in my argument, this stage has unique Pokémon that could have been Poké Ball Pokémon without issue. They are: Charmander, Electrode, Porygon, and Venusaur. (In fact, Electrode first appeared on this stage.) Oddly, only Saffron City has non-legendary unique Pokémon. It is rather old though, as it's from Smash 64, and it hasn't returned to Smash Bros. since.
Pokémon Stadium: No unique Pokémon.
Poké Floats: No unique Pokémon, although the platforms are shaped like Pokémon.
Pokémon Stadium 2: No unique Pokémon.
Spear Pillar: Brings in Dialga, Palkia, and Cresselia. Dialga and Palkia have far too many effects to just be regular Poké Ball Pokémon, and some of the attacks are just far too powerful for the role as well. (Palkia in Smash 4 only flips the screen upside down for a while, and does little damage and knockback.) Cresselia, considering it isn't even associated with Spear Pillar and its two attacks aren't all that strong, probably could have been a Poké Ball Pokémon.
Prism Tower: No unique Pokémon.
Unova Pokémon League: Reshiram and Zekrom joined the crew but just look at how powerful they are! Reshiram's flames cover large portions of the stage for long periods of time, and Zekrom's electricity has solid knock back and can even shift the stage itself! They definitely couldn't be Poké Ball Pokémon.
Kalos Pokémon League: Rayquaza, Ho-Oh, Registeel, and Manaphy appear here. Ho-Oh, Registeel, and Manaphy can't be Poké Ball Pokémon because they affect the actual stage. Rayquaza could be a Poké Ball Pokémon with little trouble, although I think he leans too close to Latios' and Latias' effect.
As it turns out, this analysis created some counterpoints rather than improving my argument, so I'll have to address those.
- Is having very powerful Pokémon on a stage a problem?
If I want to have a high "Playability" score, then having stage hazards that have significant strength is a problem. Thus, in order to win the contest it is best to avoid making powerful stage hazards.
- Couldn't this stage have a Legendary Pokémon?
Legendary Pokémon don't appear on the Island of Dreams outside of special events. While Tornadus, Thundurus and Landorus all appeared in Pokémon Dream Radar, (and gained their Therian Formes in that game as well) including them would increase the complexity of an already complex stage, reduce the focus that the stage has on a single core concept, and likely weaken my "Playability" score.
- Why don't you just make some new Poké Ball Pokémon?
Poké Ball Pokémon are items, thus creating new Poké Ball Pokémon would be outside the bounds of this contest.
Oddball's Grades:
"Interdream Zone" by Salcan:
Originality: 10/10
I'm going to give you a perfect score here, but this stage idea might just be a bit TOO unique. It really stretches the boundaries of what works in the game.
Playability: 7/10
The level itself seems decent enough, but you sure went out of you way to make it feel complicated. I feel liked I'd need a walkthrough just to figure out how this stage works.
Admittedly, the Interdream Zone is a crazy idea, but almost everything it does has been done in an actual stage. Golden Plains has collectible currency that gives a benefit once enough is collected and Living Room takes place in a room resembling reality. Pokémon Stadium 1 and 2, as well as Boxing Ring, have screens in the background that show images. Food attached to balloons float over Smashville and food is carried onto the stage by Propeller Shy Guys in Yoshi's Story and Fly Guys in Brawl's Yoshi's Island, like the Dream Clouds here. The anti-stalling mechanic draws from Jungle Hijinxs' Barrel Cannons and terrain types have been affecting traction since Icicle Mountain. Warioware Inc. invented the idea of interacting with a stage to get item based rewards, which was continued by Pac-Land, and many stages have taken place inside actual game consoles, like Flat Zone. Is it just the combination of all of these elements in one stage that makes this stage weird?
I'd like to point out that if a stage from this contest were real, people would play with the stage rather than read a long analysis of it. Thus a stage that looks complicated on paper would likely be much simpler in practice. (Especially for a stage like the Interdream Zone, where the aesthetics directly influence the mechanics. Looking at the stage would make it very easy to tell what is happening)
Kevandre
and
TheMarioaddict
in particular remember the old contest like this one and it's Handheld Pokemon round where someone submitted N's Castle as an Idea only for Unova Pokemon League to be officially revealed before the round even ended (and the joke reply a judge left of "so this guy just wins automatically right" =P).
