Time for Round 37 grades!
psb123's grades:
Picori Stream by
Kevandre
Iconic Status: 3/5
The four swords era is a weird one to judge on iconic value. It's most certainly past it's prime but it's remembered well enough to where I have difficulty deciding whether or not it's a 3 or a 4 for this kind of thing. So why the 3? Because this is a pretty bland location compared to some of Minish Cap's more memorable areas.
Originality: 5/10
I get wanting to use the whole shrinking aspect. A Minish Cap stage would need one after all. But other areas like Lake Hylia or the Palace of Winds could have still utilized it while being more notable locations overall. The way the Lily Pad works is nice but overall this is a rather uneventful arena.
Playability: 7/10
The Lily Pad can be angled closer to the blast zone which could cause some issues. But more than anything I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how the perspective could be playable. The way it's displayed in the pictures and the description of swim time only being temporary makes it seem like it scrolls down the river in a 3d view. And for a game like Smash Bros. that really seems like it would just mess with the way the game flows WAY too much.
But out of fear that this thought process is just my own lack of vision, I'll cut you a bit of slack.
Overall Score: 15/25
Hytopia Town by
GolisoPower
Iconic Status: 2/5
Like I said, Four Swords is a weird one in the Iconic department but it does have a degree of memorability to it. Triforce Heroes isn't a four swords game, but it does attempt to accomplish a similar goal. But it's been out long enough to where I feel comfortable saying that it did not reach the success of the Four Swords series.
Originality: 10/10
Not going to lie, I wavered a bit on what score to give this one to be honest. At first I wondered if the costume gimmick, while certainly unique, really warranted a 10 on it's own since it struck me as just "stage exclusive items". But with the way the whole thing works, the stage seems to come together to form the kind of stage you just want to mess around on with a silly gimmick. And in that regard, it succeeds.
Playability: 7/10
But there are some modes in every Smash game, mostly in single player, where you have limited control of what stage you're fighting on. Which causes the whole "fun to mess around on" nature of the stage to give it at least some disadvantage. Plus, the only layout I can claim I'm a fan of is the traveling platform. All the others seem a little bare in space to fight on.
Overall Score: 19/25
Lorule Castle by
splat
Iconic Status: 4/5
A Link Between Worlds and the realm of Lorule it introduced are perhaps just a tad bit on the new side still. But they are certainly memorable. It would be easy for Zelda fans to recognize them.
Originality: 8/10
Echo Stages huh? Well first of all, to answer your question of whether or not this is the contests first Echo stage. Yes, mostly. There do exist ideas that fall in range of MarioAddict's Round 14 submission (which is extremely similar to Delfino Plaza in concept) but overall this is first actual Echo stage in this contest.
Speaking of which, MarioAddict's Round 14 entry is an example, like Kevandre's Round 2 and Luminario's Round 31 ideas, of why I don't see much reason to deduct a lot of points on this entry despite it being very similar to something we already have.
It is extremely similar to Hyrule Castle yes, but as an Echo stage, that's entirely the point. I have my doubts we'll ever see Echo Stages in a real Smash game but this grade is about Originality, not likeliness. And in that regard, sadly the concept of Echo stages does warrant a couple points being removed I suppose since you're literally copying another stage. But since that's the point, I'm going to be merciful about it. If nothing else, the frame traps are a very nice touch.
Playability: 10/10
So apparently Hyrule Castle has a few technical issues that make it a banned stage in competitive play. Huh, I thought it was just because of the tornado. But I do no consider Playability to be the same thing as competitive viability. In terms of just wanting to play a stage Hyrule Castle is a classic for a reason. I too love playing on it and the touches made to give this version a Lorule vibe don't change that. GolisoPower is right. This would be a great stage to use with Hyrule Castle in the Stage Morph option.
Overall Score: 22/25
Tal Tal Mountain Range by
Iko MattOrr
Iconic Status: 4/5
I think the main thing holding back handheld Zelda games from a perfect score here is that the console titles are just more notable to people. But in that handheld realm, it's hard to top Link's Awakening in terms of recognition.
Originality: 10/10
There's some cool stuff going here. The layout is nice, the bridge is destructible while still having footing below it (take notes Green Hill Zone), the rocks are a fun little addition (and the callback to this gimmick from Zelda games is also nice. Not going to lie though, I forgot about it until you mentioned it ^^; ), but the best part is easily the Wind Fish. The background changes, healing of the arena, and waterfall it can cause are sublime.
Playability: 9/10
My only real concern is the boulders but it's pretty minor all in all. Doesn't seem to devastating, but it covers enough ground for me to take a point off. They do discourage the edge camping strategy that walk-offs can suffer from though so props to them for that.
Overall Score: 23/25
Tal Tal Heights by
TKOWL
Iconic Status: 4/5
Same reason as the last stage
Orignality: 8/10
Normally I'm not one to go for comparing one contest entry to another in the originality department but in this case, I think it's warranted. It's not that Iko posted the idea first, it's more that I think he utilized the potential this idea has for creativity more. There's not really anything wrong with this stage in terms of originality. But a basic 8-player focused arena is less creative than the stuff Iko used.
Playability: 8/10
The size comparisons between the characters and the stage is giving me some Palutena's Temple vibes. Not a huge problem all in all but Palutena's Temple is a little too big in some ways. I know this stage is 8-player focused but like I said with GolisoPower, sometimes you'll have more limited control of your arena. The less players there are, the more you have to spend time just catching up to them. I do consider this better than Palutena's Temple though thanks to the lack of damaging hazards.
Overall Score: 20/25
Cosmic77's grades:
"Picori Stream" by Kevandre:
Iconic Status: 3/5
I played this game as a kid, and I still love it for what it is. Unfortunately, I can't deny how small (no joke intended) this game is compared to other monsters like WW, TP, and BotW.
Originality: 6/10
If I'm being honest, this feels like a gimmick you'd see in a Pikmin stage rather than Zelda. Not really sure what that does to your score though.
Anyway, moving on. Layout is pretty simple, and while that's not always a bad thing, I don't feel like your gimmick (as unique as it is) justifies that. I really would've liked getting a little something extra, like leaves and sticks floating in the water too.
Playability: 9/10
My only concern lies with the blast zones. Other than that, no real issues to point out.
Overall Score: 18/25
"Hytopia Town" by GolisoPower:
Iconic Status: 3/5
The fact that Aonuma himself had to defend this game should tell you how memorable it is.
As new as it is, it's just not very memorable. Like, at all.
Originality: 10/10
I don't know if Sakurai would ever have enough time to create a stage like this, but it's certainly special. Having special costumes with special abilities for each character is extremely unique, and no other stage in Smash has ever managed to implement something like this. It also compliments the game rather nicely, and that's another thing I really appreciate. Good job!
Playability: 8/10
For the most part, the costumes are tame. Not many of them feel like they'd be too unfair of an advantage.
Still, they offer an advantage nonetheless. The outcome of the battle could come down to who collects the most costumes.
Overall Score: 21/25
"Lorule Castle" by splat:
Iconic Status: 5/5
Lorule Castle is memorable, but even if it wasn't, your stage is inspired by an existing stage in Smash. I don't see how anyone could possibly mistake this for something else (except for Hyrule Castle for obvious reasons).
Originality: 1/10
Echoes are a great way to get characters in Smash who normally wouldn't have ever had a chance to be unique. The concept works well with characters, but not so much with stages.
I get that Lorule Castle is supposed to mirror the existing Hyrule Castle as a reference to how the two worlds worked in ALBW, but c'mon. You're essentially giving us the same stage with only a few minor tweaks, none of which are big enough to warrant this being an actual stage.
The alternate world concept isn't bad, but I think your execution was wrong. We've already had a few Lorule stages submitted to this contest before, so if you want to see how this idea could be better implemented, check out those stages.
Playability: 7/10
I'll be a little nicer with your playability score. I already have an idea of what problems could exist on this stage thanks to Hyrule Castle, and none of them are too extreme. The paintings might be a tad worse than the tornados though.
Overall Score: 13/25
"Tal Tal Mountain Range" by Iko MattOrr:
Iconic Status: 4/5
Very iconic for the dedicated Zelda fanbase, but perhaps a little obscure for casual fans.
Originality: 9/10
The layout is great, and the use of the boulders as a hazard were nice. However, I'd say my favorite aspect of your stage is how seamlessly you transitioned the stage with the Wind Fish. Feels like a true callback to the original game, and I'm sure Zelda fans would absolutely adore this if it were a stage.
Playability: 8/10
The wave of water doesn't really concern me, but those I can see the falling boulders causing some problems for players.
Additionally, I think the upper ledge where the bridge is connected can function as a cave of life in a few situations. Thankfully, you didn't make that ledge extent too far out.
Overall Score: 21/25
"Tal Tal Heights" by TKOWL:
Iconic Status: 4/5
Very iconic for...
Wait, didn't I already grade this?
(See my comments on the previous stage)
Originality: 8/10
With big stages, I prefer simplier layouts like this as opposed to Palutena's Temple or TGCO. Your stage doesn't provide much aside from the layout, but I still think this is an excellent stage regardless.
Also, I love the details you used to describe the background. Stuff like that always makes a stage more interesting.
Playability: 10/10
This stage was specifically designed for large battles, not 1-on-1 battles. Therefore, I'm going to grade this stage for what it was intended to be.
And honestly, I don't have much to say. Layout is mostly flat, and I don't see many parts of your stage that could pose as a problem worthy of a deduction.
Overall Score: 22/25
TheMarioAddict's grades:
"Picori Stream" by Kevandre:
Iconic Status: 3/5
I don’t think
any Zelda game could get a 0 for iconicness, kev (well…
maybe the Oracle games). That said, I feel Minish Cap is definitely one of the more forgettable ones, so that lost you a point. Furthermore, unless I’m misreading, this isn’t an actual, specific area from the game, correct? Because. Though stages like that can still be really good, they’re inherently less iconic than specific, memorable locations, so that docked another point.
Originality: 7/10
I’ve mentioned this before, but it bears repeating: I’m not a fan of Omega+ stage layouts, so you lost some points there. However, the weight shifting mechanic is really interesting, and as far as I’m aware not something that’s been played around with much (I mean, I guess there’s the platforms in the Mushroom Kingdom stages, but this works very differently). Plus, being on a lily pad really helps sell the whole “everyone-is-tiny” thing, which is… actually not uncommon in Smash, now that I think about it, but it still feels fresh here! Nicely done, really!
Playability: 9/10
Being able to willingly shift the stage closer to the side blast zones is concerning enough for me to dock a point, but everything else is perfectly reasonable. It’s just Final Destination, after all.
Overall Score: 19/25
"Hytopia Town" by GolisoPower:
Iconic Status: 2/5
Ok, I was wrong. Triforce Heroes is far and away one of the most forgettable of the Zelda games. Still, it had a unique enough concept behind it that I think people will remember it a little, so that saves you from a straight up 1.
Originality: 10/10
From your description, it seems like you’re expecting me not to like the costume mechanic. But at least as far as originality is concerned, that couldn’t be further from the truth. Not only does it just make sense for this stage, it’s an incredibly fresh idea, which I can tell you put a lot of care and effort into. I admire that, so take a perfect 10 - you deserve it!
Playability: 8/10
Before I get into the costumes, I’ll just quickly mention that I think the stage’s timing is better than previous stages - they’re all a bit on the long side for my tastes, but I think they’re good enough for what they are. The stage layouts seem reasonable too.
Now, the costumes: for the most part, I don’t have a problem with them - the vast majority give simple stat buffs and/or attack effects. But there are certainly some problematic costumes too, mostly involving the ones that replace a character’s grab/throw (Luigi, Isabelle), give them an additional mechanic (Marth, Pac-Man), or add more unusualy properties to their attacks (Olimar, Simon). The biggest offender by far, however, is the Ice Climbers costume. Even with reduced power on your attacks, that thing? That thing is
busted. The Ice Climbers work as a duo because they were designed to only work well when together. That costume takes characters who are already competent and
gives you another one. Yikes.
So… yeah, that took a couple points off the stage. But everything else is fine, actually.
Overall Score: 20/25
"Lorule Castle" by splat:
Iconic Status: 5/5
Lorule Castle is definitely a memorable location in Zelda. Not only was ALBW a fairly memorable game, the concept of a “dark world” has come up in Zelda time and time again, without any Smash representation. For those reasons alone, this stage definitely earns a 5.
Originality: 2/10
Ok, so “Echo Stages” got a chuckle out of me, and I’ll admit that an “Echo Stage” is
technically a unique and original idea, but... let’s not kid ourselves. This is just Hyrule Castle, and it doesn’t do
nearly enough different to feel distinct from Hyrule Castle. I know that was the point, but I think the concept may have been flawed from the start. I’d have much rather seen a completely new take on Hyrule (or rather, Lorule) Castle than a copy with minimal edits (Sakurai only gets a pass for Echo Fighters because game development takes time
and money). “Echo Stages” scored you one extra point, but… come on man. You
had to know this was coming.
Playability: 6/10
I mean, it’s Hyrule Castle, so it has the same problems I have with that stage - it’s on the big side, the wall can be problematic, there’s a cave of life, the center platforms go too close to the ceiling, etc. Still, it makes for decent casual play, especially since we can turn hazards off now.
Overall Score: 13/25
"Tal Tal Mountain Range" by Iko MattOrr:
Iconic Status: 4/5
Tal Tal Heights is a great choice of Zelda level - the giant egg of the Wind Fish is a striking and memorable setpiece from across all of Zelda, and it’s definitely one of the more notable mountain areas (next to Death Mountain, of course). I’m only docking a point because I worry that non fans may not be as quick to recognize it.
Originality: 8/10
My only real problem with originality is that, both visually (well, except for the egg) and layout-wise, this stage feels like an upside-down Gerudo Valley (right down to the breaking bridge). Everything else is great, though. The boulders and the water splash are both interesting and fresh mechanics for Smash stages, and the whole thing just oozes charm! Solidly done, all around!
Playability: 7/10
The water splash covers a lot of the stage, as do the boulders (though they’re a bit more acceptable, since they’re player-triggered). Additionally, I think the sides of the bottom platform could be camped a fair bit due to the caves of life formed by the platform above (not the bridge part). The rest seems fine, though.
Overall Score: 19/25
"Tal Tal Heights" by TKOWL:
Iconic Status: 4/5
[See my comments on Iko MattOrr’s stage]
Originality: 9/10
This is a nice departure from most big stages - namely in that the vast majority of the platforms are drop-through as opposed to solid. That’ll play a bigger role in the Playability section than it does here, but for now just know that I appreciate the change. Aside from that, your stage gives us a good look at all of Tal Tal Heights, which has a very distinct feel from many other Zelda stages in turn (it really feels like being on a mountain, for one). Even without hazards, this is a prime example of a great stage. Nicely done!
Playability: 8/10
I’ve said it before, but big stages are inherently less playable than small ones. Yes, they work really well for eight player matches, and in those instances your stage is really good. But for less players, it just becomes a chore to navigate. That said, you made the smart choice to have most of your platforms be drop through instead of solid, and that does
wonders! It eliminates caves of life, opens up the options for a player to approach another player, and just all around feels better to play on. The size is still an issue, but beyond that I’ve no complaints!
Overall Score: 21/25
Total Scores:
Kevandre: 52 points
GolisoPower: 60 points
splat: 48 points
Iko Matt0rr: 63 points
TKOWL: 63 points
The Winner Is...................
Green Team
I mean we're talking Zelda here, so Green Team fits for this two-way tie. And Golden Goddesses above what a tie it is. Sharing the victory this round are the same location stages of.......
Tal Tal Mountain Range by Iko Matt0rr
AND
Tal Tal Heights by TKOWL
WOW!!!!!! INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!