Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Chandeelure]

I remembered the Ridley's shadow theories.

Good times.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

The Nintendo list is done and I will be starting on the third party one in a minute, if I need any tiebreakers I will let you know.

The Top 15 Wanted New Nintendo Characters For The Next Smash:

1. Inklings - 49 Votes
2. King K. Rool - 38 Votes
3. Springman - 28 Votes
4. Rex w/ Pyra - 22 Votes
5. Isaac - 20 Votes (Won Tiebreaker On Smashboards)
6. Bandanna Dee - 20 Votes
7. Decideuye - 19 Votes
8. Ridley - 15 Votes
9. Waluigi - 14 Votes
10. Paper Mario - 11 Votes
11. Dixie Kong - 9 Votes
12. Takamaru - 8 Votes
13. Isabelle - 7 Votes
14. Captain Toad - 6 Votes (Won Tiebreaker On Smashboards)
15. Ribbon Girl - 6 Votes

Some standout honorable mentions of characters that got 5 votes or less would included Krystal (3), Mike Jones (2), a new Fire Emblem character from FE16 on Switch (4), Tetra (4), Elma (5), Celica (3), Skull Kid (5), Daisy (4), Sylux (5), Impa (5), Incineroar (4), Gen 8 PKMN (3), Fiora (1), Lyn (4), Captain Rainbow (2), Sami (1), Ghirahim (3), Chrom (2), Hector (2), Andy (2), Toon Ganondorf (3), Ashley (3), Chorus Kids (5), Chibi-Robo (5), Regular Toad (5), Wolf Link & Midna (3), and Stanley the Bugman (2).

 

[Chron]

Little Mac, Pac-Man, Mega Man, and Duck Hunt are probably not returning. G&W is staying, but what about R.O.B.? Also out of the Retro Characters that are likely leaving, I think Mega Man has the best chance of remaining.

Bonus Clip:

Unimpressed

 

[N3ON]

Less than that I’d say. Especially considering that you could really only say that about some of the Pokémon and even then they’re the more popular Pokémon in the game. Fire Emblem? They’re all important to their own games. Dark Pit? Pretty important to Uprising. Dr. Mario has his own series. R.O.B. Is the only real character that fits that bill I think and he’s just another story altogether.

The only ones I would say are rather definitively unimportant are Sheik and Jigglypuff.
I totally get why they were added, and Sheik is important to OoT (the series as a whole not so much), a recent game at the time, while Jiggs was popular and easy to implement. Also, at the time she was included, if you were to add ZSS, I wouldn't contest that point much. Now, however, is a different story. ROB, like you said, is a whole story unto itself. I don't really think the question of series importance is applicable to him tbh.

Regardless, the point clearly is that being of importance within the series itself is of importance to Smash. It's not the be all and end all, I mean Geno was intended, but to say it carries no cache is pretty fallacious.

The Nintendo list is done and I will be starting on the third party one in a minute, if I need any tiebreakers I will let you know.

The Top 15 Wanted New Nintendo Characters For The Next Smash:

1. Inklings - 49 Votes
2. King K. Rool - 38 Votes
3. Springman - 28 Votes
4. Rex w/ Pyra - 22 Votes
5. Isaac - 20 Votes (Won Tiebreaker On Smashboards)
6. Bandanna Dee - 20 Votes
7. Decideuye - 19 Votes
8. Ridley - 15 Votes
9. Waluigi - 14 Votes
10. Paper Mario - 11 Votes
11. Dixie Kong - 9 Votes
12. Takamaru - 8 Votes
13. Isabelle - 7 Votes
14. Captain Toad - 6 Votes (Won Tiebreaker On Smashboards)
15. Ribbon Girl - 6 Votes

Some standout honorable mentions of characters that got 5 votes or less would included Krystal (3), Mike Jones (2), a new Fire Emblem character from FE16 on Switch (4), Tetra (4), Elma (5), Celica (3), Skull Kid (5), Daisy (4), Sylux (5), Impa (5), Incineroar (4), Gen 8 PKMN (3), Fiora (1), Lyn (4), Captain Rainbow (2), Sami (1), Ghirahim (3), Chrom (2), Hector (2), Andy (2), Toon Ganondorf (3), Ashley (3), Chorus Kids (5), Chibi-Robo (5), Regular Toad (5), Wolf Link & Midna (3), and Stanley the Bugman (2).

Pretty solid list.

 

[Deleted member]

1. Inklings - 49 Votes
2. King K. Rool - 38 Votes
3. Springman - 28 Votes
4. Rex w/ Pyra - 22 Votes
5. Isaac - 20 Votes (Won Tiebreaker On Smashboards)
6. Bandanna Dee - 20 Votes
7. Decideuye - 19 Votes
8. Ridley - 15 Votes
9. Waluigi - 14 Votes
10. Paper Mario - 11 Votes
11. Dixie Kong - 9 Votes
12. Takamaru - 8 Votes
13. Isabelle - 7 Votes
14. Captain Toad - 6 Votes (Won Tiebreaker On Smashboards)
15. Ribbon Girl - 6 Votes

Little Mac, Pac-Man, Mega Man, and Duck Hunt are probably not returning.

...Okay, you gotta explain why because I don't see any reason why these characters would leave aside from potential 3rd party issues on Mega and Pac's cases.

 

[Deleted member]

And the winner was of course the popular Mimikyu, Pikachu would be so proud. The other forms of Lycanroc made it a decently popular choices. Although it seems neither much are interested in fellow Mysticals Tapu Coco nor Magearna.

Next up is the semi-final Gen 7 poll, which includes two recent mystical additions (One being a Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon exclusive). Your picks are Zeraora, Marshadow, Kommo-o, and Salazzle.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Won't be long until the Ultra Beasts.

I'm going to be honest, I think I'd prefer Hakamo-o to Kommo-o.

Something about its design just fits better IMO. So I'm going to put my vote for Kommo-o, but know that it's really for Hakamo-o instead.

 

[Opossum]

The Nintendo list is done and I will be starting on the third party one in a minute, if I need any tiebreakers I will let you know.

The Top 15 Wanted New Nintendo Characters For The Next Smash:

1. Inklings - 49 Votes
2. King K. Rool - 38 Votes
3. Springman - 28 Votes
4. Rex w/ Pyra - 22 Votes
5. Isaac - 20 Votes (Won Tiebreaker On Smashboards)
6. Bandanna Dee - 20 Votes
7. Decideuye - 19 Votes
8. Ridley - 15 Votes
9. Waluigi - 14 Votes
10. Paper Mario - 11 Votes
11. Dixie Kong - 9 Votes
12. Takamaru - 8 Votes
13. Isabelle - 7 Votes
14. Captain Toad - 6 Votes (Won Tiebreaker On Smashboards)
15. Ribbon Girl - 6 Votes

Some standout honorable mentions of characters that got 5 votes or less would included Krystal (3), Mike Jones (2), a new Fire Emblem character from FE16 on Switch (4), Tetra (4), Elma (5), Celica (3), Skull Kid (5), Daisy (4), Sylux (5), Impa (5), Incineroar (4), Gen 8 PKMN (3), Fiora (1), Lyn (4), Captain Rainbow (2), Sami (1), Ghirahim (3), Chrom (2), Hector (2), Andy (2), Toon Ganondorf (3), Ashley (3), Chorus Kids (5), Chibi-Robo (5), Regular Toad (5), Wolf Link & Midna (3), and Stanley the Bugman (2).

TFW you provided half of Chrom's votes.
:'^)

 

[Chron]

...Okay, you gotta explain why because I don't see any reason why these characters would leave.

Sakurai talked about how huge the Smash 4 roster was and how much work he put into it. He said the normal "limit" was 20-25 characters if I remember correctly.
This means Smash 5's roster might actually be smaller. They need room for new characters even if the roster is about the same size and those characters seem more reasonable to drop rather that some of the only 2/3 characters some series have in the game(ex. Pit, Palutena, Dark Pit). Out of those characters Mega Man seems the most likely to stay because he's 3rd party to attract more players, and a new MM game is being developed. I may be totally wrong though, just my thoughts.

 

[Chandeelure]

A new Smash game with cuts and less characters than its predeccessor would produce an unimaginable amount of salt.

 

[RouffWestie]

I don't see the general public caring about the roster being smaller. Smash is one of those franchises that gets high praise and sells regardless of the flaws each fan can find in it.

 

[Chron]

Here are some quotes from Sakurai. (He isn't referring to Smash 5 but Smash in general)

"There is a certain charm to games that have huge casts of playable characters, but they tend to have issues with game balance and it becomes very difficult to fine-tune each character and have them all feel distinctive."
"In terms of quantity, we've probably already reached the limit of what's feasible. I think a change of direction may be what's needed."

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

After looking up the top choice of third party characters voted on there are FOUR tiebreakers for you all to look at.

1. Bomberman VS Rayman at 33 Votes

2. Simon Belmont VS Travis Touchdown VS Phoenix Wright VS Shantae at 15 Votes
-FOR THIS PLEASE PICK 3-

3. Professor Layton VS Doom Guy at 10 Votes

4. Snake VS Spyro at 9 Votes

Thanks for the help.

 

[Deleted member]

After looking up the top choice of third party characters voted on there are FOUR tiebreakers for you all to look at.

1. Bomberman VS Rayman at 33 Votes

2. Simon Belmont VS Travis Tourchdown VS Phoenix Wright VS Shantae at 15 Votes
-FOR THIS PLEASE PICK 3-

3. Professor Layton VS Doom Guy at 10 Votes

4. Snake VS Spyro at 9 Votes

Thanks for the help.

1. Rayman
2. Phoenix, Simon, Travis
3. Doom Guy
4. Snake

\(°|°)/

 

[Schnee117]

After looking up the top choice of third party characters voted on there are FOUR tiebreakers for you all to look at.

1. Bomberman VS Rayman at 33 Votes

2. Simon Belmont VS Travis Tourchdown VS Phoenix Wright VS Shantae at 15 Votes
-FOR THIS PLEASE PICK 3-

3. Professor Layton VS Doom Guy at 10 Votes

4. Snake VS Spyro at 9 Votes

Thanks for the help.

1. Rayman

2. Phoenix, Travis, Simon

3. Doom Guy

4. Snake

 

[Chandeelure]

After looking up the top choice of third party characters voted on there are FOUR tiebreakers for you all to look at.

1. Bomberman VS Rayman at 33 Votes

2. Simon Belmont VS Travis Tourchdown VS Phoenix Wright VS Shantae at 15 Votes
-FOR THIS PLEASE PICK 3-

3. Professor Layton VS Doom Guy at 10 Votes

4. Snake VS Spyro at 9 Votes

Thanks for the help.

Bomberman
Simon Belmont, Travis, Phoenix
Doom Guy
Snake

 

[Chron]

After looking up the top choice of third party characters voted on there are FOUR tiebreakers for you all to look at.

1. Bomberman VS Rayman at 33 Votes

2. Simon Belmont VS Travis Touchdown VS Phoenix Wright VS Shantae at 15 Votes
-FOR THIS PLEASE PICK 3-

3. Professor Layton VS Doom Guy at 10 Votes

4. Snake VS Spyro at 9 Votes

Thanks for the help.

Bomberman (Sorry Lampy lol)

Phoenix Wright, Shantae, Travis Touchdown

Layton

Snake

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

I guess I will throw my vote in as well to help out my list:

Bomberman
Shantae, Travis, and Simon
Layton
Snake

 

[N3ON]

Here are some quotes from Sakurai. (He isn't referring to Smash 5 but Smash in general)

"There is a certain charm to games that have huge casts of playable characters, but they tend to have issues with game balance and it becomes very difficult to fine-tune each character and have them all feel distinctive."
"In terms of quantity, we've probably already reached the limit of what's feasible. I think a change of direction may be what's needed."

It's not really the question of cuts, it's that there's little context to justify your choices. Barring technical limitations, retros and entire Nintendo series have never been axed. I don't see why that makes more sense over low priority characters like clones and DLC.

After looking up the top choice of third party characters voted on there are FOUR tiebreakers for you all to look at.

1. Bomberman VS Rayman at 33 Votes

2. Simon Belmont VS Travis Touchdown VS Phoenix Wright VS Shantae at 15 Votes
-FOR THIS PLEASE PICK 3-

3. Professor Layton VS Doom Guy at 10 Votes

4. Snake VS Spyro at 9 Votes

Thanks for the help.

I'm picking Bomberman and Snake. The other two I'll abstain from.

 

[Chron]

Adding 10-15+ new characters and dropping 5 from each Smash game is just not possible.
Also, personally I would rather have a smaller roster with more new characters(keeping the classics) than just a few new guys and everything else unchanged for the most part.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm picking Bomberman and Snake. The other two I'll abstain from.

Those are the two I would be picking for Third-Parties. They are the Third-Parties that deserve the most, because Bomberman is getting fairly popular with fans and is appearing in Nintendo platforms like the Switch. Snake in the other hand was in Brawl and had a fun move-set. His fans who hope he returns are still vocal. hopefully Sakurai ( or the other director ) and Konami find a way to figure out Snake's addition in Smash 4. Snake was fun to play in Brawl.

 

[Bowserlick]

Here are some quotes from Sakurai. (He isn't referring to Smash 5 but Smash in general)

"There is a certain charm to games that have huge casts of playable characters, but they tend to have issues with game balance and it becomes very difficult to fine-tune each character and have them all feel distinctive."
"In terms of quantity, we've probably already reached the limit of what's feasible. I think a change of direction may be what's needed."

Ironically, the best balanced game in the series is the one with (by far) the most characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Those are the two I would be picking for DLC. They are the DLC that deserve the most, because Bomberman is getting fairly popular with fans and is appearing in Nintendo platforms like the Switch. Snake in the other hand was in Brawl and had a fun move-set. His fans who hope he returns are still vocal. hopefully Sakurai ( or the other director ) and Konami find a way to figure out Snake's addition in Smash 4. Snake was fun to play in Brawl.

What does DLC have to do with the discussion?
I think you mean 3rd parties.

 

[Deleted member]

What does DLC have to do with the discussion?
I think you mean 3rd parties.

Darn it. You are right.

Ironically, the best balanced game in the series is the one with (by far) the most characters.

Indeed, props to Sakurai and the Smash 4 development team. I am sure they can balance Smash for Switch just fine if they were able to do Smash for Wii U for a while. Some patches are going to be needed, like if someone gets too powerful or if someone is just too weak in the meta. If they do not need patches, I will be pretty impressed. Patches will make me impressed how they pull that off as well.

 

[N3ON]

Adding 10-15+ new characters and dropping 5 from each Smash game is just not possible.
Also, personally I would rather have a smaller roster with more new characters(keeping the classics) than just a few new guys and everything else unchanged for the most part.

That's not my argument. It's not why you cut characters, it's why you cut those characters.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Adding 10-15+ new characters and dropping 5 from each Smash game is just not possible.
Also, personally I would rather have a smaller roster with more new characters(keeping the classics) than just a few new guys and everything else unchanged for the most part.

Quite frankly I think a lot of Smash fans would be mad at a smaller and in some ways lesser roster.

 

[RouffWestie]

After looking up the top choice of third party characters voted on there are FOUR tiebreakers for you all to look at.

1. Bomberman VS Rayman at 33 Votes

2. Simon Belmont VS Travis Touchdown VS Phoenix Wright VS Shantae at 15 Votes
-FOR THIS PLEASE PICK 3-

3. Professor Layton VS Doom Guy at 10 Votes

4. Snake VS Spyro at 9 Votes

Thanks for the help.

Rayman
Simon, Phoenix, Shantae
Doom Guy
Snake

 

[Krysco]

I'm gonna go ahead and make the argument that 64 is actually more balanced than Sm4sh. Pikachu is indeed the best in 64 and is basically the 'Brawl MK' of 64 but on the other end of the spectrum, Link, Samus and Luigi are nowhere near as bad as Ganondorf, Puff, D3 and Zelda are in Sm4sh.

Also, in regards to cuts in Smash 5, I'm all for a smaller roster if it means more time spent on other things like fun single player modes, more and better stages, more and better items, better overall balance and I'm sure there's other things I'm not thinking of. Somewhere between Brawl and Sm4sh's roster size sounds nice. Brawl had 39 playable characters and Sm4sh had 58 so somewhere around the mid 40s sounds fine to me.

 

[Bowserlick]

The way to go for a reboot with a smaller roster is a Nintendo VS.

This would allow Nintendo characters, that are already Smash-defined, to go against a cast of mostly new characters such as Sega characters.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

I'm gonna go ahead and make the argument that 64 is actually more balanced than Sm4sh. Pikachu is indeed the best in 64 and is basically the 'Brawl MK' of 64 but on the other end of the spectrum, Link, Samus and Luigi are nowhere near as bad as Ganondorf, Puff, D3 and Zelda are in Sm4sh.

Also, in regards to cuts in Smash 5, I'm all for a smaller roster if it means more time spent on other things like fun single player modes, more and better stages, more and better items, better overall balance and I'm sure there's other things I'm not thinking of. Somewhere between Brawl and Sm4sh's roster size sounds nice. Brawl had 39 playable characters and Sm4sh had 58 so somewhere around the mid 40s sounds fine to me.

And then there would be more via DLC

 

[Baskerville]

30 - 40 characters sounds reasonable for a Smash reboot. Especially if they decide to make a new engine for it.

 

[Krysco]

And then there would be more via DLC

On the one hand, I support that idea since they could focus on the core game and then add other characters later. On the other hand, that'd be that much more money to hand over assuming they added a lot more DLC characters to make up for the smaller roster. Plus it's that many more chances for a Cloud or Bayonetta to slip through the cracks which would defeat the entire point of balance being put before roster size. I think Street Fighter V started with a small roster and the devs slowly but surely released other characters that could be bought with ingame currency? Not 100% sure since I've never played it but Smash could do that too. Would actually make gold worth getting.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

The tiebreaker has been fixed for every one except Phoenix Wright vs Simon Belmont vs Travis Touchdown.

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm gonna go ahead and make the argument that 64 is actually more balanced than Sm4sh. Pikachu is indeed the best in 64 and is basically the 'Brawl MK' of 64 but on the other end of the spectrum, Link, Samus and Luigi are nowhere near as bad as Ganondorf, Puff, D3 and Zelda are in Sm4sh.

You have to remember that 64 only had twelve characters as opposed to Smash 4's fifty-eight.

Balancing a larger roster is much harder and more time-consuming. Since most of the low-tier characters in Smash 4 aren't even close to being on the same level of bad as Ganondorf and Jigglypuff, I'd say the game was fairly balanced. At the very least, it was a huge improvement from Melee and Brawl.

 

[N3ON]

The tiebreaker has been fixed for every one except Phoenix Wright vs Simon Belmont vs Travis Touchdown.

Travis would be my pick, but I'm going to vote for Simon.

He, and especially his series, probably belong in Smash the most of those.

 

[Deleted member]

The tiebreaker has been fixed for every one except Phoenix Wright vs Simon Belmont vs Travis Touchdown.

I'm going for Phoenix.

 

[Krysco]

You have to remember that 64 only had twelve characters as opposed to Smash 4's fifty-eight.

Balancing a larger roster is much harder and more time-consuming. Seeing how most of the low-tier characters in Smash 4 aren't on the same level of bad as Ganondorf and Jigglypuff, I'd say the game was pretty fairly balanced.

And that's exactly why I think 64 is the more well balanced game. I can commend the dev team for making Sm4sh as balanced as they did but it was brought up that Sm4sh is the most well balanced in the series which I personally disagree with. And even as bad as the 4 bottom tiers of Sm4sh are, they're still better than Melee Kirby and Brawl Ganondorf though that's moreso due to the engine being more limited and overall defense friendly than the 4 actually being better designed.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Post Retracted.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd like to hear some feedback on my roster.

Spoiler: long post

Here's my roster. I added a few characters that I think have reasonable chances of getting in, but it's mostly ideal. Still WIP but my ideal number would be 80. I'll make a picture once it's done.
Note: I'm not adding characters from dorment franchises*

Roster

Mario
+ Waluigi

Mario related


Donkey Kong
+ Dixie Kong + King K. Rool

The Legend of Zelda


Metroid
+ Ridley

Kirby
+ Bandana Dee + Dark Matter (Kirby bias itensifies)

Star Fox


Pokemon
+ Decidueye

Earthbound


F-Zero


Fire Emblem
+ New lord

Kid Icarus


Pikmin


Animal Crossing


Punch-Out


Wii Fit


Xenoblade Chronicles
+ Rex & Pyra

Splatoon
Inkling

ARMS
Spring Man

Rhythm Heaven
Marshal / Tibby

Golden Sun*
Isaac*

Retro
+ Takamaru

3rd Party
+ Phoenix Wright + Rayman + Crash Bandicoot + Shovel Knight

Mii
(Reworked)

I don't know how many characters that is, but it shall suffice for now.
Feel free to comment on this on the general thread.

*=Except for Golden Sun because I'm a delusional fanboy and it deserves more recognition

Still work in progress but whatevs.
I might remove Ridley soon.

 

[Opossum]

I made a fantastic "ideal" roster of one hundred characters. I don't necessarily consider these characters plausible or optimal (like Ninten). It's just my ideal roster. If you have any comments, please don't complain about what IP a character is or what IPs do and don't have newcomers. I only added the characters that I think would work, with some personal exceptions. So if I don't think there are any Metroid newcomers that would work, that's why there aren't any.

Ideal Roster of 100 Characters!!! + 4 Mii Fighters & Tabuu + 5 Clones
* = Unlockable Character

Super Mario

• Mario
• Peach
• Bowser
• Bowser Jr.
• Rosalina & Luma
• Luigi*
• Daisy*
• Dry Bowser*
• Captain Toad*
• Paper Mario*

Donkey Kong

• Donkey Kong
• Diddy Kong
• King K. Rool
• Dixie Kong*
• Pauline*

The Legend of Zelda

• Link
• Zelda
• Ganondorf
• Sheik*
• Skull Kid*
• Toon Link*
• Toon Zelda*
• Tetra*

Metroid

• Samus Aran
• Zero Suit Samus*

Yoshi

• Yoshi
• Baby Mario

Kirby

• Kirby
• King Dedede
• Meta Knight*

Star Fox

• Fox McCloud
  
• Andross
• Falco Lombardi*
• Wolf O'Donnell*

Pokemon

• Pikachu
• Charizard
• Greninja
• Decidueye
• Lucario*
• Jigglypuff*
• Gengar*
• Mewtwo*

Kid Icarus

• Pit
• Palutena

Fire Emblem

• Marth
• Ike
• Robin
• Corrin*
• Camilla*
• Lyndis*
• Roy*
• Alm & Celicia*

Mother/Earthbound

• Ninten
• Ness*
• Lucas*

F-Zero

• Captain Falcon
• Samurai Goroh*

Wario

• Wario
• Waluigi*

Pikmin

• Olimar
• Alph*

Animal Crossing

• Villager
• Isabelle

Punch-Out!!

• Little Mac

Xenoblade Chronicles

• Rex & Pyra

Splatoon

• Inkling

Arms

• Spring Man
• Ribbon Girl*

Golden Sun

• Isaac*

The Legendary Starfy

• Starfy*

Chibi-Robo!

• Chibi-Robo*

Rhythm Heaven

• Rhythm Heaven Troupe*

Retro

• Balloon Fighter
• Ice Climbers
• Duck Hunt
• Takamaru*
• Ayumi Tachibana*
• Lip*
• Mr. Game & Watch*
• R.O.B.*

Third Party

• Sonic The Hedgehog
• Miles "Tails" Prower
• Knuckles The Echidna
• Mega Man
• Pac-Man
• Bomberman
• Simon Belmont
• Snake
• Ryu
• Heihachi Mishima
• Cloud Strife
• Lara Croft
• Bayonetta
• Shantae
• Shovel Knight
• Sash Lilac
• Alucard*
• Terra Branford*
• Shadow The Hedgehog*
• Carol Tea*

Super Smash Brothers

• Mii Brawler
• Mii Swordfighter
• Mii Gunner
• Mii Mage*
• Tabuu*

The Clones (Unlockable when roster has been completed)

• Dr. Mario*
• Donkey Kong Jr.*
• Pichu*
• Dark Pit*
• Lucina*

Alternate Costume Characters

• Bowser Jr. (The Koopalings)
• Captain Toad (Toadette)
• Sheik (Impa)
• Little Mac (Wirefame Little Mac)
• Isaac (Matthew)
• Starfy (Starly)
• Spring Man (Spring Tron)
• Bomberman (The Bomberman Bros.)
• Pac-Man (Ms. Pac-Man)
• Lara Croft (32-Bit Lara)

Character Concepts:

Spoiler: Dixie Kong

Dixie Kong appears as a semi-clone of Diddy Kong. But, she has many unique abilities.

Unique Abilities: Gumball Gun, Hair Twirl.

Final Smash: Guitar

Spoiler: Pauline

Pauline's design is inspired by Donkey Kong on Gameboy and her dress is torn like in her arcade artwork and one of her straps is hanging off.

Potential abilities: Super Hammer, Mini-Pauline Toys, Oil Drum, Spring, Parasol, Key, Trash Can, Ladder (DKGB).

Final Smash: New Donk City Festival.

Spoiler: Baby Mario

Baby Mario dawns a cape in his appearance.

Potential Abilities: Cape, Parachute, Squeaky Hammer, Toys, Chain Chomp, Magnet, Bubble.

Final Smash: Baby Team.

Spoiler: Andross

Andross appears in his "humanoid" form from Star Fox 2 & Star Fox Zero. He doesn't have any arms so he still functions with his proper abilities. One of his abilities (and his stage entrance) is the inter dimensional cube from Star Fox and Star Fox 2.

Potential Abilities: Telekinesis, Metal Panels (can build anything), Scepter, Black Holes, Magnetic Laser (used for pulling opponents toward him), Become Metallic, Ghostly Aurora, Plasma Rings, Light-Speed Warp, Inter dimensional Cube, Darkness, Cosmic Powers.

Final Smash: Summons black hole, pulls in opponents to another dimension, becomes Giant Head Andross, sucks up opponents, chews them, spits them back out.

Spoiler: Samurai Goroh

Samurai Goroh is very slightly a semi-clone of Captain Falcon. Even less so than Luigi. Though he shares the same special abilties and Final Smash. Most all of his non special abilities are a unique mixture of brute strength and his stingray katana.

Final Smash: Fire Stingray

Spoiler: Ninten

Ninten appears with minor differences from Ness. Ness is his Falco and Lucas is his Wolf. I don't actually consider Ninten a plausible or even sensical addition. I just love him the most of all the Mother protagonists so it's a shame he's the only one absent. But, obvious why.

Differences from Ness & Lucas:

• Down Special is PSI Vacuum
• Side Special is PSI Beam
• Neutral Special is Rising PK Flash
• Side Smash is Boomerang
• Ness's Final Smash is PSI Rockin
• Lucas's Final Smash is PK Love

Ninten's Final Smash: 4th-D Slip

Spoiler: Princess Daisy

Differences from Princess Peach: Crazee Dayzee (Toad), Carrots (Turnips).

Final Smash: Flower Blossom

Spoiler: Waluigi

Waluigi's move set is ENTIRELY original. Though he uses his Tennis racket briefly in his neutral attack, all of his moves are original to Super Smash Bros, inspired by his wacky and devious personality, just as Wario's were.

Spoiler: Balloon Fighter

Balloon Fighter is kind of like a reverse Little Mac. He is a supreme aerial fighter who is mostly helpless on the ground. His balloons make recovery (especially after being launched) much easier.

Balloon Fighter can have three balloons. After taking significant damage, a balloon will pop. With his Nuetral B Special, Balloon Fighter can use his balloon pump to make more balloons. If he already has three, the next balloon he pumps will pop, making it an attack.

If Balloon Fighter's arms get tired from flapping, he can sacrifice his balloons by over inflating them until they pop as a final recovery. He will then descend by parachute.

Potential Abilities: Balloon Pump, Flippers, Sparks and Static, Air Pump (like Stanley). His swimming animation is him trying to avoid the fish. Instead of drowning, the fish will eat him and take him to the bottom of the ocean.

Final Smash: Bonus Stage (Balloons can Star KO)

Spoiler: Donkey Kong Jr.

Donkey Kong Jr. is a clone of Donkey Kong. He's not as big as DK, but he's bigger than Diddy. He uses his fists a lot more than DK rather than his palms, like in his Spinning Kong move and Hand Slap move.

He also uses a key as his down aerial and can release clap traps as his down tilt.
View attachment 137584

Final Smash: Donkey Kong Jr. uses a key to break 8-Bit DK out of prison, allowing him to wreak havoc.

Spoiler: Shadow The Hedgehog

Shadow is a Luigi-esque clone of Sonic. He retains his homing attack and spin dash as well as Super Shadow. But, he can teleport with Chaos Control and use Chaos Spear.

Abilities: Chaos Control, Chaos Spear, Chaos Blast.

Final Smash: Super Shadow

Spoiler: Clones

Semi-Clones

• Luigi
• Daisy
• Dry Bowser
• Dixie Kong
• Toon Link
• Toon Zelda
• Falco Lombardi
• Wolf O'Donnell
• Roy
• Ness
• Lucas
• Samurai Goroh
• Alph
• Ribbon Girl
• Shadow The Hedgehog

Full Clones

• Dr. Mario
• Donkey Kong Jr.
• Pichu
• Dark Pit
• Lucina

Spoiler: Character History (For Fun)

Mario (Debut: 1981)

• Donkey Kong Classics (NES)
• Super Mario Bros. (NES)
• Super Mario 64 (N64)

Luigi (Debut: 1983)

• Mario Bros. (NES)
• Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels (Japan Only)
• Luigi's Mansion (GCN)

Princess Peach (Debut: 1985)

• Super Mario Bros. (NES)
• Super Mario Bros. 2 (NES)
• Super Princess Peach (DS)

Bowser (Debut: 1985)

• Super Mario Bros. (NES)
• Mario Party 2 (N64)
• Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story (DS)

Bowser Jr. (Debut: 2002)

• Super Mario Sunshine (GCN)
• Mario Power Tennis (GCN)
• New Super Mario Bros. U (Wii U)

The Koopalings (Debut: 1988)

• Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES)
• Super Mario World (SNES)
• New Super Mario Bros. Wii (Wii)

Rosalina & Luma (Debut: 2007)

• Super Mario Galaxy (Wii)
• Mario Kart Wii (Wii)
• Super Mario 3D World (Wii U)

Captain Toad (Debut: 2007)

• Super Mario Galaxy (Wii)
• Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker (Wii U)
• Super Mario Odyssey (NX)

Toadette (Debut: 2003)

• Mario Kart: Double Dash (GCN)
• Mario Party 6 (GCN)
• Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker (Wii U)

Princess Daisy (Debut: 1989)

• Super Mario Land (GB)
• Mario Tennis (N64)
• Super Mario Run (Mobile)

Dry Bowser (Debut: 2005)

• New Super Mario Bros. (DS)
• Mario Kart Wii (DS)
• Super Mario 3D Land (3DS)

Dr. Mario (Debut: 1990)

• Dr. Mario (NES)
• Dr. Mario 64 (North America Only)
• Dr. Mario: Miracle Cure (3DS)

Paper Mario (Debut: 2000)

• Paper Mario (N64)
• Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door (GCN)
• Paper Mario: Color Splash (Wii U)

Link (Debut: 1986)

• The Legend of Zelda (NES)
• Zelda II: The Adventure of Link (NES)
• The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)

Princess Zelda (Debut: 1986)

• The Legend of Zelda (NES)
• The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)
• The Legend of Zelda: Breath of The Wild (NX)

Sheik (Debut: 1998)

• The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)
• The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D (3DS)
• Hyrule Warriors: Definitive Edition (NX)

Ganondorf (Debut: 1998)

• The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)
• The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker (GCN)
• The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (Wii)

Skull Kid (Debut: 2000)

• The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)
• The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask (N64)
• The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (Wii)

Toon Link (Debut: 2002)

• The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker (GCN)
• The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (DS)
• The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks (DS)

Toon Zelda (Debut: 2002)

• The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords (GBA)
• The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker (GCN)
• The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks (DS)

Tetra (Debut: 2002)

• The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker (GCN)
• The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures (GCN)
• The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (DS)

Impa (Debut: 1986)

• The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)
• The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages/ The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons (GBC)
• The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword (Wii)

Donkey Kong (Debut: 1981)

• Donkey Kong Classics (NES)
• Donkey Kong Country (SNES)
• Donkey Kong Country Returns (Wii)

Diddy Kong (Debut: 1994)

• Donkey Kong Country (SNES)
• Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest (SNES)
• Diddy Kong Racing (N64)

Dixie Kong (Debut: 1995)

• Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest (SNES)
• Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie's Double Trouble (SNES)
• Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze (Wii U)

King K. Rool (Debut: 1994)

• Donkey Kong Country (SNES)
• Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest (SNES)
• Donkey Kong 64 (N64)

Pauline (Debut: 1981)

• Donkey Kong (NES)
• Donkey Kong (GB)
• Super Mario Odyssey (NX)

Donkey Kong Jr. (Debut: 1982)

• Donkey Kong Jr. (NES)
• Donkey Kong Jr. Math (NES)
• Super Mario Kart (SNES)

Samus Aran (Debut: 1986)

• Metroid (NES)
• Super Metroid (SNES)
• Metroid Prime 4 (NX)

Zero Suit Samus (Debut: 2004)

• Metroid: Zero Mission (GBA)
• Metroid: Other M (Wii)
• Metroid: Samus Returns (3DS)

Captain Falcon (Debut: 1990)

• F-Zero (SNES)
• F-Zero X (N64)
• F-Zero GX (GCN)

Samurai Goroh (Debut: 1990)

• F-Zero (SNES)
• F-Zero X (N64)
• F-Zero GX (GCN)

Ninten (Debut: 1989)

• Earthbound Beginnings (Japan Only)
• Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo Switch (NX)
• ---

Ness (Debut: 1994)

• Earthbound (SNES)
• Super Smash Bros. (N64)
• ---

Lucas (Debut: 2006)

• Mother 3 (Japan Only)
• Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii)
• ---

Yoshi (Debut: 1990)

• Super Mario World (SNES)
• Yoshi's Island (SNES)
• Yoshi's Story (N64)

Baby Mario (Debut: 1995)

• Yoshi's Island (SNES)
• Mario Golf (N64)
• Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time (DS)

Wario (Debut: 1992)

• Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins (GB)
• Wario Land 3 (GBC)
• Wario Ware Inc. Mega Micro Game$ (GBA)

Waluigi (Debut: 2000)

• Mario Tennis (N64)
• Mario Party 3 (N64)
• Mario Strikers Charged (Wii)

Kirby (Debut: 1992)

• Kirby's Dream Land (GB)
• Kirby's Adventure (NES)
• Kirby Star Allies (NX)

King Dedede (Debut 1992)

• Kirby's Dream Land (GB)
• Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards (N64)
• Kirby's Return to Dreamland (Wii)

Meta Knight (Debut: 1993)

• Kirby's Adventure (NES)
• Kirby Superstar (SNES)
• Kirby Superstar Ultra (DS)

Fox McCloud (Debut: 1993)

• Star Fox (SNES)
• Star Fox 64 (N64)
• Star Fox Zero (Wii U)

Andross (Debut: 1993)

• Star Fox (SNES)
• Star Fox 64 (N64)
• Star Fox Zero (Wii U)

Falco Lombardi (Debut: 1993)

• Star Fox 64 (N64)
• Star Fox Command (DS)
• Star Fox Zero (Wii U)

Wolf O'Donnell (Debut: 1997)

• Star Fox 64 (N64)
• Star Fox Assault (GCN)
• Star Fox Zero (Wii U)

Pikachu (Debut: 1996)

• Pokemon Yellow: Special Pikachu Edition (GB)
• Hey You, Pikachu! (N64)
• Pokemon Sun/Pokemon Moon (3DS)

Jigglypuff (Debut: 1996)

• Pokemon Red/Pokemon Blue (GB)
• Pokemon X/Pokemon Y (3DS)
• Pokemon Sun/Pokemon Moon (3DS)

Charizard (Debut: 1996)

• Pokemon Red/Pokemon Blue (GB)
• Pokemeon Fire Red/Pokemon Leaf Green (GBA)
• Pokemon X/Pokemon Y (3DS)

Mewtwo (Debut: 1996)

• Pokemon Red/Pokemon Blue (GB)
• Pokemon Stadium (N64)
• Pokemon X/Pokemon Y (3DS)

Gengar (Debut: 1996)

• Pokemon Red/Pokemon Blue (GB)
• Pokemon X/Pokemon Y (3DS)
• Pokken Tournament DX (NX)

Lucario (Debut: 2006)

• Pokemon Diamond/Pokemon Pearl (DS)
• Pokemon X/Pokemon Y (3DS)
• Pokken Tournament DX (NX)

Greninja (Debut: 2013)

• Pokemon X/Pokemon Y (3DS)
• Pokemon Battle Trozei (3DS)
• Pokemon Sun/Pokemon Moon (3DS)

Decidueye (Debut: 2016)

• Pokemon Sun/Pokemon Moon (3DS)
• Pokemon Ultra Sun/Pokemon Ultra Moon (3DS)
• Pokken Tournament DX (NX)

Pichu (Debut: 1999)

• Pokemon Gold/Pokemon Silver (GBC)
• Pokemon Channel (GCN)
• Pokemon Heart Gold/Pokemon Soul Silver (DS)

Pit (Debut: 1986)

• Kid Icarus (NES)
• Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters (GB)
• Kid Icarus: Uprising (3DS)

Palutena (Debut: 1986)

• Kid Icarus (NES)
• Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters (GB)
• Kid Icarus: Uprising (3DS)

Dark Pit (Debut: 2013)

• Kid Icarus: Uprising (3DS)
• ---
• ---

Marth (Debut: 1990)

• Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon & The Blade of Light (Japan Only)
• Fire Emblem: Mystery of The Emblem (Japan Only)
• Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon (DS)

Roy (Debut: 2001)

• Super Smash Bros. Melee (GCN)
• Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade (Japan Only)
• ---

Lyn (Debut: 2003)

• Fire Emblem (GBA)
• Fire Emblem Warriors (NX)
• ---

Ike (Debut: 2005)

• Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (GCN)
• Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn (Wii)
• ---

Robin (Debut: 2013)

• Fire Emblem Awakening (3DS)
• Fire Emblem Warriors (NX)
• ---

Corrin (Debut: 2016)

• Fire Emblem Fates (3DS)
• Fire Emblem Warriors (NX)
• ---

Camilla (Debut: 2016)

• Fire Emblem Fates (3DS)
• Fire Emblem Warriors (NX)
• ---

Alm & Celicia (Debut: 1992)

• Fire Emblem Gaiden (Japan Only)
• Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia (3DS)
• ---

Lucina (Debut: 2013)

• Fire Emblem Awakening (3DS)
• Fire Emblem Warriors (NX)
• ---

Olimar (Debut: 2001)

• Pikmin (GCN)
• Pikmin 2 (GCN)
• Hey! Pikmin (3DS)

Alph (Debut: 2013)

• Pikmin 3 (Wii U)
• ---
• ---

Villager (Debut: 2001)

• Animal Forest (Japan Only)
• Animal Crossing: City Folk (Wii)
• Animal Crossing: New Leaf (3DS)

Isabelle (Debut: 2012)

• Animal Crossing: New Leaf (3DS)
• Animal Crossing: Happy Home Designer (3DS)
• Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (NX)

Little Mac (Debut: 1984)

• Punch-Out!! (NES)
• Super Punch-Out!! (SNES)
• Punch-Out!! (Wii)

Rex & Pyra (Debut: 2017)

• Xenoblade Chronicles 2 (NX)
• ---
• ---

Inkling (Debut: 2015)

• Splatoon (Wii U)
• Splatoon 2 (NX)
• Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (NX)

Spring Man (Debut: 2017)

• Arms (NX)
• ---
• ---

Ribbon Girl (Debut: 2017)

• Arms (NX)
• ---
• ---

Isaac (Debut: 2001)

• Golden Sun (GBA)
• Golden Sun: The Lost Age (GBA)
• Golden Sun: Dark Dawn (DS)

Matthew (Debut: 2010)

• Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
• ---
• ---

Starfy (Debut: 2002)

• Densetsu no Stafy (Japan Only)
• Densetsu no Stafy 2 (Japan Only)
• The Legendary Starfy (DS)

Starly (Debut: 2004)

• Densetsu no Stafy 3 (Japan Only)
• Densetsu no Stafy 4 (Japan Only)
• The Legendary Starfy (DS)

Chibi-Robo (Debut: 2005)

• Chibi-Robo! Plug into Adventure (GCN)
• Chibi-Robo! Park Patrol (DS)
• Chibi-Robo! Zip Lash (3DS)

Rhythm Heaven Troupe (Debut: 2006)

• Rhythm Tengoku (Japan Only)
• Rhythm Heaven (DS)
• Rhythm Heaven Fever (Wii)

Balloon Fighter (Debut: 1984)

• VS Balloon Fight
• Balloon Fight (NES)
• ---

Ice Climbers (Debut: 1985)

• Ice Climber (NES)
• ---
• ---

Duck Hunt (Debut: 1985)

• Duck Hunt (NES)
• ---
• ---

Takamaru (Debut: 1986)

• The Mysterious Murasame Castle (Japan Only)
• ---
• ---

Ayumi Tachibana (Debut: 1989)

• Famicom Detective Club Part II: The Girl in The Back (Japan Only)
• Famicom Detective Club: The Missing Heir (Japan Only)
• BS: Detective Club: Lost Memories in The Snow (Japan Only)

Lip (Debut: 1995)

• Panel De Pon (Japan Only)
• Nintendo Puzzle Collection (Japan Only)
• ---

R.O.B. (Debut: 1985)

• Gyromite (NES)
• Stack-Up (NES)
• Mario Kart DS (DS)

Mr. Game & Watch (Debut: 1980)

• Ball (G&W)
• Fire (G&W)
• Game & Watch Gallery (GB)

Sonic The Hedgehog (Debut: 1991)

• Sonic The Hedgehog
• Sonic Adventure DX: Director's Cut (GCN)
• Sonic Mania (NX)

Miles "Tails" Prower (Debut: 1992)

• Sonic The Hedgehog 2
• Tails' Adventure
• Sonic Heroes (GCN)

Knuckles The Echidna (Debut: 1994)

• Sonic The Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles
• Knuckles' Chaotix
• Sonic Adventure DX: Director's Cut (GCN)

Shadow The Hedgehog (Debut: 2001)

• Sonic Adventure 2: Battle (GCN)
• Shadow The Hedgehog (GCN)
• Sonic Forces (NX)

Mega Man (Debut: 1987)

• Mega Man 2 (NES)
• Mega Man X (SNES)
• Mega Man 11 (NX)

Bomberman (Debut: 1983)

• Bomberman (NES)
• Bomberman Hero (N64)
• Super Bomberman R (NX)

Pac-Man (Debut: 1980)

• Pac-Man
• Pac-Man World
• Pac-Man Champion Edition 2 (NX)

Ms. Pac-Man (Debut: 1981)

• Ms. Pac-Man
• Pac-Land
• Pac-Man World

Simon Belmont (Debut: 1986)

• Castlevania (NES)
• Castlevania II: Simon's Quest (NES)
• Super Castlevania IV (SNES)

Alucard (Debut: 1989)

• Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse (NES)
• Castlevania: Symphony of The Night
• Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow (GBA)

Snake (Debut: 1987)

• 
  
  
  • Metal Gear (NES)
  • Metal Gear Solid
  • Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes (GCN)

Ryu (Debut: 1987)

• Street Fighter II
• Super Street Fighter II: The Final Challengers (SNES)
• Super Street Fighter IV: 3D Edition (3DS)

Heihachi Mishima (Debut: 1994)

• Tekken
• Tekken 3D: Prime Edition (3DS)
• Tekken Tag Tournament 2 (Wii U)

Lara Croft (Debut: 1996)

• Tomb Raider
• Tomb Raider: Legend (DS)
• Rise of The Tomb Raider

Terra Branford (Debut: 1994)

• Final Fantasy VI (SNES)
• ---
• ---

Cloud Strife (Debut: 1997)

• Final Fantasy VII
• ---
• ---

Bayonetta (Debut: 2009)

• Bayonetta (NX)
• Bayonetta 2 (NX)
• Bayonetta 3 (NX)

Shantae (Debut: 2002)

• Shantae (GBC)
• Shantae and The Pirate's Curse (3DS)
• Shantae: Half-Genie Hero (NX)

Shovel Knight (Debut: 2014)

• Shovel Knight (Wii U)
• Shovel Knight: Specter of Torment (NX)
• Yooka-Laylee (NX)

Sash Lilac (Debut: 2014)

• Freedom Planet (Wii U)
• Freedom Planet 2 (NX)
• ---

Carol Tea (Debut: 2014)

• Freedom Planet (Wii U)
• Freedom Planet 2 (NX)
• ---

Tabuu (Debut: 2008)

• Super Smash Bros. Brawl: The Subspace Emissary (Wii)
• Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo Switch (NX)
• ---

Neat list! I might do my own later on.

Question though, why are Alm and Celica (presumably) a duo? They don't fight like that in Gaiden/SoV (in fact, the final boss is literally the first time you're able to use both at once).

 

[Cosmic77]

I'd like to hear some feedback on my roster.
Still work in progress but whatevs.
I might remove Ridley soon.

I'd like to hear some feedback on my roster.
Still work in progress but whatevs.
I might remove Ridley soon.

0/10 if Ridley gets removed.


Just kidding (but if you do remove him, I think you should at least replace him with a generic "MP4 character". Not bad at all for your ideal roster. Quite a few of those characters do seem rather likely to get in Smash, and most of the existing franchises that didn't get anything in Smash 4 got an extra rep this time. The only thing I would consider adding is a Zelda character. I'm still convinced that the development team will try to add at least one new character after the success of BotW.