Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[TheTuninator]

An Awakening rep is very likely, but I do not believe Ike will be an easy cut to make. I think FE could quite possibly bump to 3 slots, assuming Sakurai was aware of Awakening's monstrous popularity before finalizing the roster. Any roster prediction which includes 3 FE reps is reasonable by my standards.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I personally think that Ike and Roy won't be included. Mostly because Ike replaced Roy, and Chrom will most likely replace Ike. It's a specific pattern. As much as I want Roy in Smash4, the only character that has a huge chance of making it back is Mewtwo since he's relevant to the Pokemon series again.

Because one game makes a pattern. Totally legit reasoning there.

 

[IsmaR]

@IsmaR: AWH REALLY?

Well maybe that was a little cutesy but it was the gist of it. Also, this was as safe as I could post on here.

Spoiler

 

[Deleted member]

I personally think that Ike and Roy won't be included. Mostly because Ike replaced Roy, and Chrom will most likely replace Ike. It's a specific pattern. As much as I want Roy in Smash4, the only character that has a huge chance of making it back is Mewtwo since he's relevant to the Pokemon series again.

Ike did not replace Roy contrary to what people think. Roy was planned to return but had to be cut due to time constraints, so Sakurai didn't add Ike as a replacement for Roy.

And how is the first and latest lord a pattern? There's been only two instance of this and Brawl did plan to have Marth, Ike and Roy.

 

[Hoots]

Has anyone seen this?

Why is this so goddamn funny?

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Ike did not replace Roy contrary to what people think. Roy was planned to return but had to be cut due to time constraints, so Sakurai didn't add Ike as a replacement for Roy.

And how is the first and latest lord a pattern? There's been only two instance of this and Brawl did plan to have Marth, Ike and Roy.

This very reason is why I'm confident in Roy's return to be quite honest.

 

[TheTuninator]

While I agree that we can't really claim a pattern, I do think that people sometimes put too much stock in the info we have gotten from people hacking the disc. Roy would of course have been considered for inclusion in Brawl no matter what, but ultimately he did not make the cut, and that is what matters.

This very reason is why I'm confident in Roy's return to be quite honest.

I think he's a tossup, personally. He's got the fanbase for sure, but that didn't save him in Brawl. This time around, he will need FE to get 3 slots to come back, and if FE bumps to 3 slots it's quite possibly due to Awakening's popularity, which increases the chances of an Awakening rep.

Roy is definitely a frontrunner as far as potential newcomers go, though.

 

[DarkShadow20]

To bring this topic back to Smash-related stuff, here's my new prediction roster.
View attachment 1154
The only ones I'm iffy on are Toon Link, Pokémon Trainer (though I think Charizard is all but guarantee to stay, I do feel as Squirtle and Ivysaur are at a bigger risk of leaving than Lucario) and Shulk. Everyone else I feel good enough in being in.

Nice roster. It's fairly similar to mine:

 

[Jedisupersonic]

While I agree that we can't really claim a pattern, I do think that people sometimes put too much stock in the info we have gotten from people hacking the disc. Roy would of course have been considered for inclusion in Brawl no matter what, but ultimately he did not make the cut, and that is what matters.

Very true. I'm just really gunning for Roy to come back, so sorry if I seem a bit biased towards his possible return ^^; It's because of him I got into FE in the first place. I used him before Marth etc.

 

[TheTuninator]

Very true. I'm just really gunning for Roy to come back, so sorry if I seem a bit biased towards his possible return ^^; It's because of him I got into FE in the first place. I used him before Marth etc.

Nothing to apologize for! We all have characters we'd like to see in, and Roy certainly has better chances of showing up than quite a lot of other characters.

 

[Deleted member]

While I agree that we can't really claim a pattern, I do think that people sometimes put too much stock in the info we have gotten from people hacking the disc. Roy would of course have been considered for inclusion in Brawl no matter what, but ultimately he did not make the cut, and that is what matters.

The fact that Sakurai not only considered Roy's return but planned to have him in until late in the game shows that Sakurai did intend to bring back Roy in the game but time constraints kept Roy from being it. It had nothing to do with him being unworthy of a spot.

My bets are on that Sakurai will intend to bring back Marth, Ike and Roy for the next game. If Sakurai went back to adding the Villager despite previously rejecting him, then I'd be surprised if Sakurai didn't try to bring Roy back. Of course whenever or not Roy does get in is another story.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Nothing to apologize for! We all have characters we'd like to see in, and Roy certainly has better chances of showing up than quite a lot of other characters.

Haha, yeah. I just apologize alot ^^; most of the time for silly reasons. I just feel strange in the fact that my 2 most wanted returners are Roy and Sonic lol.

 

[TheTuninator]

The fact that Sakurai not only considered Roy's return but planned to have him in until late in the game shows that Sakurai did intend to bring back Roy in the game but time constraints kept Roy from being it. It had nothing to do with him being unworthy of a spot.

I never said he was unworthy of a spot. I said that ultimately Roy did not make the cut, and that needs to be given more weight than the fact that he was planned for the game at some point. Plus, do we really know that he was planned until late in development? I thought that hackers just found his victory theme and maybe one or two other things. We can't really draw many conclusions from that.

Haha, yeah. I just apologize alot ^^; most of the time for silly reasons. I just feel strange in the fact that my 2 most wanted returners are Roy and Sonic lol.

Hey, if your two favorite characters have already appeared in Smash at some point, no reason to root for newcomers appearing over their return.

 

[Demna]

Ike did not replace Roy contrary to what people think. Roy was planned to return but had to be cut due to time constraints, so Sakurai didn't add Ike as a replacement for Roy.

And how is the first and latest lord a pattern? There's been only two instance of this and Brawl did plan to have Marth, Ike and Roy.

Do you have any proof that Sakurai wanted to include Roy in Smash 4 and didn't intend on replacing him?

Nice roster. It's fairly similar to mine:

This looks like the most realistic roster in my opinion. However, people think that Snake might be cut from Sm4sh due to lack of rights to include him in Smash4. Is it true that Snake is an exclusive SSBB character?

 

[Deleted member]

I never said he was unworthy of a spot. I said that ultimately Roy did not make the cut, and that needs to be given more weight than the fact that he was planned for the game at some point. Plus, do we really know that he was planned until late in development? I thought that hackers just found his victory theme and maybe one or two other things. We can't really draw many conclusions from that.

Sakurai said it himself that he had characters he wanted to bring back to the game but couldn't due to time constraints. Considering that Roy and Mewtwo had the most files out of all the Forbidden Seven, I believe that he was referring to these two characters as one of many characters he wanted to add but couldn't due to time constraints.

I'll find the link.

 

[TheTuninator]

Sakurai said it himself that he had characters he wanted to bring back to the game but couldn't due to time constraints. Considering that Roy and Mewtwo had the most files out of all the Forbidden Seven, I believe that he was referring to these two characters as one of many characters he wanted to add but couldn't due to time constraints.

I'll find the link.

Oh, I know that. That quote doesn't suggest that they were cut very late in development, though, just that they were cut at some point. Sakurai could have figured out that he couldn't do a 41-character roster 2 or 12 months before release for all we know.

I certainly recognize that the Forbidden Seven have a stronger claim to potential inclusion in Brawl than characters who did not appear on the disc at all. I just think we need to be careful about how much importance we assign cut content in the absence of context.

 

[Banjodorf]

This looks like the most realistic roster in my opinion. However, people think that Snake might be cut from Sm4sh due to lack of rights to include him in Smash4. Is it true that Snake is an exclusive SSBB character?

SSBF can handle the other question. Now look, I don't know what exactly is being said, but honestly, we don't know what's happening with Snake in Smash 4. None of what is said about Snake right now can ever be taken as fact, aside from the fact that it might be a slap in the face for Kojima for Sakurai to not want Snake in Smash 4. Let's leave it at that.

And once again, people are getting waaaaay too hyped up on Dixie's being in Tropical Freeze being the reason for her inclusion over another, more popular DKC character I could name. (With a bigger resume than hers, even if you don't want to consider popularity a factor.) Sakurai's already taken fan consideriations into the roster folks, and the roster was in all likelihood finalized early on in development. We're now 16 months into the development cycle and counting. TF does nothing for Dixie's chances.

 

[Vintage Creep]

The only ones I'm iffy on are Toon Link, Pokémon Trainer (though I think Charizard is all but guarantee to stay, I do feel as Squirtle and Ivysaur are at a bigger risk of leaving than Lucario) and Shulk. Everyone else I feel good enough in being in.

It's absolutely out of the question that Squirtle and Ivysaur will go away but Charizard will stay. Charizard isn't enough of a character to be alone, he's just a fan favorite. They'll all stay or they're all gone. I personally think they will stay, the PKMN Trainer was the best and most interesting new addiction to Brawl, gameplay-wise.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's the link I was referring to: http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/5437/features/an-audience-with-masahiro-sakurai/?page=3

"It's taken over three years to make Brawl but I actually stopped trying to include new ideas early on in the development," says Sakurai. "What happened over the next year and a half was that we distilled the game down, worked out which ideas we had time to include and which we didn't. Sadly, we had to trim out many great concepts just to keep things practical within the time constraints. I had a lot more characters, for example... but sadly, I can't discuss which ones didn't make it!"

 

[TheTuninator]

If Jigglypuff can stand on her own as a character, Charizard certainly can. He's got just as much personality in the anime and far more popularity.

I do not expect us to get one of PT's Pokemon while losing the rest, but you can certainly make a compelling case for keeping Charizard. He has as much right to be in Smash as any other Pokerep.

Here's the link I was referring to: http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/5437/features/an-audience-with-masahiro-sakurai/?page=3

Thanks! I wonder if he'll do what he did for Brawl and pick a bunch of characters that he wanted to include in the last cycle but was unable to. If Sakurai has to go through a similar process again, DLC would certainly be a viable way of alleviating his woes regarding an inability to implement as many characters as he wanted.

 

[Deleted member]

It's absolutely out of the question that Squirtle and Ivysaur will go away but Charizard will stay. Charizard isn't enough of a character to be alone, he's just a fan favorite. They'll all stay or they're all gone. I personally think they will stay, the PKMN Trainer was the best and most interesting new addiction to Brawl, gameplay-wise.

In the April, 2011 IGN Pokémon poll with over ten million votes, Charizard ranked #1 and beat everyone else. This shows just how enormous his popularity really is. Even if you were to only account 10% of the vote, that would still be one million vote, which is an extremely large sample. Excluding who is pretty much the most popular Pokémon in the world would be insane. Even if Ivysaur and Squirtle unfortunately gets the axe, Charizard will stay because of how popular he is.

And who's to say that Charizard can't stand on his own? He's got a lot to pull from (like most every Pokémon) and it's not like they have to create an entirely new move set for him.

 

[Jaedrik]

The best part is that if they didn't find what they were looking for, they didn't look hard enough.
*remembers finding MarthxZelda upon request here*

I. . . still can't. Normally, I am an expert (not at naughty searching, thankfully, but at other assorted searching).
Technicality, it was a dare, not a request.
I suppose it's for the better. I've had a bout with the Devil (or one of his minions) and beaten him back in this regard.

DLC for Smash 4!

I must sleep, but this new Wii U is too fun! Goodnight, everyone, I'll be singing in the choir tomorrow.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

In the April, 2011 IGN Pokémon poll with over ten million votes, Charizard ranked #1 and beat everyone else. This shows just how enormous his popularity really is. Even if you were to only account 10% of the vote, that would still be one million vote, which is an extremely large sample. Excluding who is pretty much the most popular Pokémon in the world would be insane. Even if Ivysaur and Squirtle unfortunately gets the axe, Charizard will stay because of how popular he is.

And who's to say that Charizard can't stand on his own? He's got a lot to pull from (like most every Pokémon) and it's not like they have to create an entirely new move set for him.

I remember back when Gen 1 first came about when I was really little. Just about every kid picked Charmander [I was an oddball and was more a Bulbasaur fan but I digress]. Charizard's popularity is still strong with this generation and the newer fans as well thanks to the likes of the Gen 1 remakes and many many other things not to even mention the anime.

 

[Banjodorf]

And who's to say that Charizard can't stand on his own? He's got a lot to pull from (like most every Pokémon) and it's not like they have to create an entirely new move set for him.

Y'know, despite not wanting cuts in any form, I'd almost prefer Charizard just be PT's only Pokemon. It'd probably make him more viable, just not having the stupid Stamina mechanic, and would make transition to the 3DS potentially easier. (If there's even really a problem, aside from a fan-speculated one.)

However, for the sake of the unique character gimmick, all three should stay.

 

[TheTuninator]

Having a fantastic design definitely doesn't hurt either.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

In the April, 2011 IGN Pokémon poll with over ten million votes, Charizard ranked #1 and beat everyone else. This shows just how enormous his popularity really is. Even if you were to only account 10% of the vote, that would still be one million vote, which is an extremely large sample. Excluding who is pretty much the most popular Pokémon in the world would be insane. Even if Ivysaur and Squirtle unfortunately gets the axe, Charizard will stay because of how popular he is.

And who's to say that Charizard can't stand on his own? He's got a lot to pull from (like most every Pokémon) and it's not like they have to create an entirely new move set for him.

Blastoise got 2 or 3.

But should have gotten first

 

[Oasis_S]

I like the one with Marth being used by Samus, Sheik, and Peach. So to some degree it's MarthxZelda.

Sheik was pinching his nipples I think.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I just got the mental image of Charizard and Ridley grappling in epic dragon to dragon [shut up Charizard is close enough xD] combat. Yeah I know it happened in Brawl somewhat via boss battles but the thought of them duking it out as playable both. Just made me smile

 

[Admiral Pit]

Well, Charizard specifically has been the only one of those 3 to ever be in the 3 Smash games. Granted, the first 2 was him being a Pokeball, and now Brawl has him playable. I can surely live with that, but we can't have too many Pokemon reps, just like we can't have too much of the others, mostly noted, Mario reps.

 

[IsmaR]

Blastoise got 2 or 3.

But should have gotten first

It's because Blastoise can also learn Seismic Toss.

 

[TheTuninator]

Blastoise got 2 or 3.

But should have gotten first

He may have been the only Pokemon capable of standing up to Charizard in the first TCG set, but Charizard was still the best and most popular. Guess that makes Blastoise the "King of Second Bananas" of Pokemon.

 

[Deleted member]

Thanks! I wonder if he'll do what he did for Brawl and pick a bunch of characters that he wanted to include in the last cycle but was unable to. If Sakurai has to go through a similar process again, DLC would certainly be a viable way of alleviating his woes regarding an inability to implement as many characters as he wanted.

You're welcome.

Sakurai has the tendency to look back at previous game for ideas for game play and characters to include. Mewtwo, Bowser and King Dedede were all planned for Smash 64 but didn't get in. However, Bowser and Mewtwo showed up for Melee and King Dedede showed up for Brawl (interestingly enough, Mewtwo was planned for all three games). Sakurai planned to have Final Smash since the original but finally decided to add them in Brawl. And as I said before, the Villager shows that Sakurai does reconsider old ideas he previously rejected.

I'm confident that Sakurai will try to include Mewtwo, Dixie Kong and Roy this time around and I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to bring back Dr. Mario as well (though that's much less likely). It's for this reason why I believe that should there be DLC (a 50/50 chance IMO), that we will see Marth, Ike, Roy and Chrom all on the roster.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

He may have been the only Pokemon capable of standing up to Charizard in the first TCG set, but Charizard was still the best and most popular. Guess that makes Blastoise the "King of Second Bananas" of Pokemon.

Lazy Photoshop edit is lazy

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Blast toys!

I think it's amazing how Roy is so popular despite being so old. If it wasn't for Melee, he'd be no different than Leif or Sigurd. (in my opinion)

 

[Admiral Pit]

Lazy Photoshop edit is lazy

Now that I look at that, I always imagined Bowser's shell to have a pair of cannons on its back along with its spikes, a little change from his generic fighting style routine with the fire breath. Nintendo needs to make it happen. Give Bowser a spiky shell with cannons, then he'll be the true tank of Smash!

 

[DarkShadow20]

Do you have any proof that Sakurai wanted to include Roy in Smash 4 and didn't intend on replacing him?

This looks like the most realistic roster in my opinion. However, people think that Snake might be cut from Sm4sh due to lack of rights to include him in Smash4. Is it true that Snake is an exclusive SSBB character?

I actually had him removed at one point but decided to bring him back for a few reasons. One, he's a popular and iconic character with a unique moveset. Two, since Sonic is pretty likely to return there's not really any reason Snake shouldn't as well. And three, Sakurai and Kojima are still friends so it's not like they got in a fight and he'll remove Snake, lol.

And once again, people are getting waaaaay too hyped up on Dixie's being in Tropical Freeze being the reason for her inclusion over another, more popular DKC character I could name. (With a bigger resume than hers, even if you don't want to consider popularity a factor.) Sakurai's already taken fan consideriations into the roster folks, and the roster was in all likelihood finalized early on in development. We're now 16 months into the development cycle and counting. TF does nothing for Dixie's chances.

I'd much rather see K Rool but at this point I think Dixie is likelier, and not just because of TF. As we all know, Sakurai has a tendency to revisit past ideas and implement them in future games, and Dixie was one of the forbidden 7. TF probably has been in development for awhile too, so it's always possible Sakurai knew about Dixie being in it ahead of time.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Blast toys!

I think it's amazing how Roy is so popular despite being so old. If it wasn't for Melee, he'd be no different than Leif or Sigurd.

Very true. While I like Leif and Sigurd quite a bit as well [not to mention many of the other FE lords] Roy just has a special place for getting me into FE. Plus I found his FE pretty fun despite some flaws

Now that I look at that, I always imagined Bowser's shell to have a pair of cannons on its back along with its spikes, a little change from his generic fighting style routine with the fire breath. Nintendo needs to make it happen. Give Bowser a spiky shell with cannons, then he'll be the true tank of Smash!

He tried the tank approach in a certain cartoon. granted it wasn't shell cannons but..

 

[Baskerville]

Really? We've referenced Rule 34 so many times in this thread.

Rule 34.2 states that there's a pony version of everything.

uuuuuuuggggggghhhhhh... -_-

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Ya know, during the reveal of the XBOX ONE I made a joke about the "Fantasy Football" option talking about a football game with elves and magic and junk

Turns out there IS a game with elves and orcs called "Blood Bowl"

"Fantasy Football" exists, and someone took my joke literally

 

[Deleted member]

I remember back when Gen 1 first came about when I was really little. Just about every kid picked Charmander [I was an oddball and was more a Bulbasaur fan but I digress]. Charizard's popularity is still strong with this generation and the newer fans as well thanks to the likes of the Gen 1 remakes and many many other things not to even mention the anime.

Loved that generation as a child. The only one that I liked more was Gen 2 (though I also remember Gen 3 a lot). Also had my favorite Pokémon anime season. A big reason why I want Mewtwo so much is because of my nostalgia for Gen 1 (and not because of Melee)

Y'know, despite not wanting cuts in any form, I'd almost prefer Charizard just be PT's only Pokemon. It'd probably make him more viable, just not having the stupid Stamina mechanic, and would make transition to the 3DS potentially easier. (If there's even really a problem, aside from a fan-speculated one.)

However, for the sake of the unique character gimmick, all three should stay.

I'm a big fan of the Pokémon Trainer and would dislike to see any cuts out there. If Pokémon Trainer stays, the stamina mechanic definitely needs to go. To work around the 3DS limit, they can make it to where you can only have one Pokémon out for the match. This can give them the opportunity to change their move sets a little as well as give them individual Final Smashes. If having the Pokémon Trainer is too big of an issue, then separate Charizard, Ivysaur and Squirtle into their own slot.

This looks like the most realistic roster in my opinion. However, people think that Snake might be cut from Sm4sh due to lack of rights to include him in Smash4. Is it true that Snake is an exclusive SSBB character?

We don't know this yet, but out of all the Brawl veterans, Snake is the one in the most danger of facing the axe.

The thing is that four third-party are very unlikely to occur. Mega Man is already in and Pac-Man is all but guarantee to show up at this point, which gives us two. Then take into account a very distant off-chance that we get a third new third-party or a much more likely possibility of Sonic returning and that bring us to three. Four doesn't sound too implausible to most people, but we have to remember that Sakurai is extremely conservative with adding third-parties. He considered having up to three third-parties in Brawl, but we only ended up with two. Right now, there isn't much reason to believe that limit has been expanded. There's also no guarantee that guests from the past game gets to return and if guests do get to return, Sonic will get first priority because of his supermassive popularity in Brawl.

Nothing definitive, but I think Snake is not coming back.