Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Deleted member]

What about items?

Those don't exist, what is this? Mario Kart?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Those don't exist, what is this? Mario Kart?

Of course, it's called Super Smash Bros. Kart: Starring Dante from Devil May Cry.

Where the hell have you been for the last few years?

 

[Metal Overlord]

@Hyper- Yeah, I joined actually lol

 

[Deleted member]

Of course, it's called Super Smash Bros. Kart: Starring Dante from Devil May Cry.

Where the hell have you been for the last few years?

At a music festival actually, it's national Music Week here in Spain, I'm sure as hell not missing out on that.

 

[Autumn ♫]

It is to Sakurai. The Child Link is considered to him to be the first version of Link introduced, not Adult Link. So Child Link is a very important character to him in the Zelda series. Adult Link has veteran status, not so much importance. Of course, Adult Link is apparently one of the most popular too, so that helps. In addition, representing the Adult and Child games is pretty important too. The other characters fail to do that, besides two Links. It's not an issue having two, especially when they don't play alike at all, despite having a lot of the same moves.(less so in Brawl, as Toon Link's moveset is extremely different from regular Link, even with how each move works for the clone ones)




Being in a lot of games doesn't make her the most important. In fact, she's a bit player and a very minor Zelda character overall. She's had a few moments, but Sheik is actually the fourth most important character overall. Unless you count her as Zelda. And nah, making her a Sheikah just means they'll most likely make her a clone. Her Oracle games shows that she's a very powerful portly woman who could easily take the scene. We need variety in our women, not just "Oh, they are totally thin girls" type thing. We have enough variety in the men in Smash, having all kind of shapes and sizes. The women are not so diverse. They're a little better than some games, but still not that great.

Again, Tingle's in quite a few amount of games and is also just as key of a role in most cases. They're in the same boat "Hero"-wise. Vaati and Ghirahim are pretty close for notable villains, too. Although many could argue Tingle's an Anti-Villain at this point.

Do you have a source for the child Link?

I will admit that she's not as big as the triforce trio, but she is more important than other characters such as Tingle and Vaati. I honestly don't see how Sheik is very important since she's only been in half of an old game and all she did was teach Link melodies to get inside dungeons and hide from Ganondorf. Just being a Sheikah doesn't mean Impa would be a clone of Sheik either.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Lol Manly what type of music are they playing there?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Am hoping Link gets the Skyward Strike for Side B.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Do you have a source for the child Link?

It's no longer there, but he specified it on the Toon Link page on the original Brawl SSB page. You might be able to find it still.

I will admit that she's not as big as the triforce trio, but she is more important than other characters such as Tingle and Vaati. I honestly don't see how Sheik is very important since she's only been in half of an old game and all she did was teach Link melodies to get inside dungeons and hide from Ganondorf. Just being a Sheikah doesn't mean Impa would be a clone of Sheik either.

Sheik IS Zelda. That's what makes her far more important. She's basically what Ganondorf is to Ganon or vice versa. Of course she's way more important than Impa as an overall character. And the thing is, I really doubt they could make Sheikah Impa very original since Sheik already has all the best moves and style you can get. Sure, she could have a few new special moves, but... that's where it ends. There's not much to separate her. On the other hand, giving her Oracles appearance, she would hardly be similar to Sheik, still officially be a Sheikah, and could still be a very powerful fighter.

And nah, I really don't see how Impa is far more important than Tingle or Vaati at this point. Vaati is the major villain of the Four Swords series and Minish Cap. He's very important overall. Tingle is literally the first and only Zelda characters other than Link to officially star in a spin-off that was purposely approved by Nintendo as a series.(albeit, their canon is ambiguous) He also plays just as prominent roles as Impa does in all his appearances. They're pretty much on par. If you want to argue Vaati's slightly weaker than Impa, the problem is that he is a fully main villain and is pretty much the main enemy of Four Swords Link in canon. Albeit, he did get hijacked by Ganon, but he was still a final boss twice thusfar. And the original Four Swords(connected to the GBA port of A Link to the Past) is considered a full game for some reason. I dunno why, since it felt like something fun to me. I always thought it was closer to Link's Crossbow Training canon-wise, but eh, I'm not Nintendo, so enough said.

@MO: Ah. It didn't appear you joined, since I can't do anything with your membership data. Huh. Well, post whenever or whatever you want(in the appropriate topic and within the forum rules of course. )

 

[Deleted member]

Source?

Here.

-Pichu (Sakurai says that he wanted a character who was bad on purpose, which is why Pichu was brought in. He also says that he had considered Jigglypuff the joke character of the first game, but now Jigglypuff was seen as more of a serious character because of Pichu’s inclusion. Also of note – one fan suggests that Raichu should have been used for Pikachu’s model swap instead of Pichu. Sakurai says that Pichu did more to differentiate himself, and that he added more by being a joke character.)

 

[Diddy Kong]

Impa has a sort of kungfu based fighting style suggesting by her pose during the Barrier from the cutscene. Seeing as Namco has plentynof experience in making these sort of fighting styles, I say this does well for Impa.

 

[Deleted member]

Lol Manly what type of music are they playing there?

Indy, well mostly indy.

Depends on where you go, I hit up the local shows for the indy scene. Madrid is very metropolitan so I kinda wanted to explore what it had to offer in contrast to say NYC or Chicago.

There were some areas playing classical, and some outdoor joints doing more hip-hop or jazz.

I'm actually heading out in a bit for round 2.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Nice, I've only been to one music festival in my life, and that was a jazz festival in Cincinnati back in like 99 when I was only 4 lol

I'd love to actually go to one soon, just to see the experience would be like

 

[Diddy Kong]

I like going to festivals and artist preformances. Amsterdam has a lot of reggae preformances, which I always loved to go to. Haven't been there in a while however.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'd have to go outside first.

 

[Autumn ♫]

It's no longer there, but he specified it on the Toon Link page on the original Brawl SSB page. You might be able to find it still.




Sheik IS Zelda. That's what makes her far more important. She's basically what Ganondorf is to Ganon or vice versa. Of course she's way more important than Impa as an overall character. And the thing is, I really doubt they could make Sheikah Impa very original since Sheik already has all the best moves and style you can get. Sure, she could have a few new special moves, but... that's where it ends. There's not much to separate her. On the other hand, giving her Oracles appearance, she would hardly be similar to Sheik, still officially be a Sheikah, and could still be a very powerful fighter.

And nah, I really don't see how Impa is far more important than Tingle or Vaati at this point. Vaati is the major villain of the Four Swords series and Minish Cap. He's very important overall. Tingle is literally the first and only Zelda characters other than Link to officially star in a spin-off that was purposely approved by Nintendo as a series.(albeit, their canon is ambiguous) He also plays just as prominent roles as Impa does in all his appearances. They're pretty much on par. If you want to argue Vaati's slightly weaker than Impa, the problem is that he is a fully main villain and is pretty much the main enemy of Four Swords Link in canon. Albeit, he did get hijacked by Ganon, but he was still a final boss twice thusfar. And the original Four Swords(connected to the GBA port of A Link to the Past) is considered a full game for some reason. I dunno why, since it felt like something fun to me. I always thought it was closer to Link's Crossbow Training canon-wise, but eh, I'm not Nintendo, so enough said.

@MO: Ah. It didn't appear you joined, since I can't do anything with your membership data. Huh. Well, post whenever or whatever you want(in the appropriate topic and within the forum rules of course. )

Well, if you count Sheik as Zelda then I understand why you say she's the 4th most important, but wouldn't that make her only the 2nd or 3rd most important since she is Zelda? Like how Ganon is the 2nd or 3rd most important since he is Ganondorf? Which leaves Impa for 4th.

Spin-offs don't really count, as they are not actual Zelda games. So, I wouldn't really use that to help Tingle's case.

Impa has appeared in most of the Zelda games, unlike Vaati or Tingle, and has had an important role in all of them, being the royal family's bodyguard, and helping you on your quest, whether it's physically helping, or giving you something important, such as the enterance to a dungeon, or holding the triforce. All Tingle really did that was of some importance was either give you the Tingle tuner, which wasn't that helpful, or give you maps (usually having to pay for them, which I don't really mind as much as others do.)

 

[Diddy Kong]

Why Sheik though? Tetra and Phantom Zelda are all Zelda to. Tetra even appeared in more games than Sheik. Yet not as many as Impa.

Seeing as Sheik is still a separate character file and has a different moveset than Zelda, I still count them as separate characters in this case.

 

[Deleted member]

6 games (5 if Oracles count as one title) is only a small fraction of the series.

And two of those games she didn't actually appear in.
Meaning only 3 games, 4 at most.
With what can be considered a major role only in 2 of them.

If that constitutes "4th most important character" then the standards are pretty damn low.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Impa was in most of the Zelda games? What's "most"? She was in 4/16 by my count. Tingle was in five but I'm neutral to his inclusion so whatever.

 

[The Black mage]

Am hoping Link gets the Skyward Strike for Side B.

That was so cool looking, I'd like that, too.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Tetra even appeared in more games than Zelda.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Fix'd.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well, if you count Sheik as Zelda then I understand why you say she's the 4th most important, but wouldn't that make her only the 2nd or 3rd most important since she is Zelda? Like how Ganon is the 2nd or 3rd most important since he is Ganondorf? Which leaves Impa for 4th.

I couldn't counter her as fourth anyway. Tingle comes first to me, then Impa, then Vaati. Also, Ganon, Ganondorf, Adult Link, Child Link, Zelda, Shiek are the major important ones. No matter what, Impa comes pretty far down the line of importance.

Spin-offs don't really count, as they are not actual Zelda games. So, I wouldn't really use that to help Tingle's case.

Actually, they're still Zelda games. They're part of the series and have not been declared canon or non-canon. So they still count at this time. Crossbow Training is too. Remember, ambiguous canon, which they're labeled as, means they haven't been given a specific declaration of where they fall in. No, not even the timeline does anything because Nintendo hasn't said a word about them. However, the only non-canon games so far at best have been the CD-i games. No other ones are specified by Nintendo and could be either, or, officially.

Impa has appeared in most of the Zelda games, unlike Vaati or Tingle, and has had an important role in all of them, being the royal family's bodyguard, and helping you on your quest, whether it's physically helping, or giving you something important, such as the enterance to a dungeon, or holding the triforce. All Tingle really did that was of some importance was either give you the Tingle tuner, which wasn't that helpful, or give you maps (usually having to pay for them, which I don't really mind as much as others do.)

Only ones I'd call majorly important were OOT and SS and that's it. The rest were "Hey, I started you on the basic quest. Go kick butt." She does way too little in those. She's hardly better in OOT, where Sheik takes the more important role overall and does way more. The only important bit she had was her Sage stuff. And... that's it?

You also forgot the Kinstone Fusions as well. Honestly, Tingle's actions are just as important in the Zelda games as Impa's overall. Storyline or otherwise. There's nothing that makes either more important. No, number of games isn't meaningful. That's just how often they happen to show up, but don't say jack about their importance.

As for Vaati, being the major boss and kind of the entire reason for Minish Cap to even be a game, as well as the original Four Swords... that's not important? I dunno how you can say that. He was basically the Ganon of two games, and played a super prominent role in Minish Cap, still doing more than Impa does in OOT. Again, Impa's importance is given too much credit. She's heavily important in two games, and in the rest, plays a useful but very small role. Tingle's exactly the same(not counting his own games) Impa overall has been a very minor character, where Sheik officially hasn't, being Zelda herself. She's as minor as Ganondorf, basically.

SS helped her be notable, but she's still pretty minor overall. Also, she can call herself a major character when she gets her own games or is the main character of one game.(has yet to happen) Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf/Ganon, and all Links have always been the overall main characters. Tingle takes the fourth main character slot solely due to having his own set of games still based around the Zelda series. He's literally the Wario of Zelda at this point.(no, literally, he is, since that's the first character to have his own series. The similarities of Greed are not unfounded either) Also, keep in mind the Canon of the Zelda series has zero relevance for Smash. Why?

Because Sakurai gives no care about Canon anymore. He considers the Anime heavily important for Smash, which is not the Canon to the games. In addition, he knew Zelda could fight... because of the non-canon games and cartoons where she does. That's kind of the only way for her to be a plausible character, because of any media showing they could fight or do some kind of attack. Fox/Falco/Wolf all had on-foot segments overall. Captain Falcon had a comic about him fighting. R.O.B. had Mario Kart where he could be violent enough with items. Every possible fighter has something showing they could legitimately fight, no matter what the source, and don't expect a canon source to mean jack for what makes them notable.

 

[Frostwraith]

Tingle appeared in more games than Impa. By that logic, Tingle is more important and should be the new Zelda character.

Not that I care for Tingle or Impa, though. I think the Zelda series doesn't need more characters in Smash.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Can't we all just agree the only deserving Zelda newcomer is Toon Sheik

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'd say Tingle being the only character to star in his own games makes him the fourth most important(not counting transformations of characters, to clarify, or being the same person, technically) character in the overall Zelda series.

Of course, nobody is saying Impa isn't important at all. Of course she is. But she has like... four games where she does something in the actual game. Oracle games where she's semi-important. SS and OOT. The latter two are fairly decent roles.

Anyway, I don't know who I think I'd go for first. I'm with Tingle or Oracles!Impa specifically. Both are great additions to me. But I do agree it's not likely to see any at this point.

On another note, Ganondorf has the least amount of forms overall. If you count Puppet Ganon, he does have a few more. He already has Puppet Ganon, Ganon, Beast Ganon, and Ganondorf.

Zelda has Sheik, Young Zelda, Tetra, and Phantom Zelda.

Link has... do I need to list them all? Come on, he's almost like Wario when it comes to transformations.

 

[The Black mage]

Well, would you look at that...
The Smash bros site is STILL NOT updated.
This wait is just killing me...

 

[Autumn ♫]

6 games (5 if Oracles count as one title) is only a small fraction of the series.

And two of those games she didn't actually appear in.
Meaning only 3 games, 4 at most.
With what can be considered a major role only in 2 of them.

If that constitutes "4th most important character" then the standards are pretty damn low.

Maybe it's because I wasn't here until the very end of Diddy's Impa propaganda that I'm positive of Impa, instead of disliking her.

She was mentioned in Zelda I and other's usually being Zelda's bodyguard or finding the hero and starting Link's adventures or helping you physically. She's also appeared in several games, shall I say, since I do count Zelda I and had a cameo in WW.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Impa's role in Skyward Sword kind of is more than Tingle ever did in the main games. He's a supporting character. But not one of great influence like Impa. While Tingle is a homosexual map salesman, Impa's last role was the Goddess Hylia's own personal warrior. She has fought in the war against Demise before Link was even born. So she dates back in history before even Link, Zelda and Ganondorf. In the Zelda timeline, the first prominent characters are Hylia, Impa and Demise. Hylia's spirit carried forth in Zelda, Demise's hatred carried forth in mostly Ganon. Meanwhile Impa stayed Impa. She even lived for 1000s of years. And sealed the Triforce away for the first time. She's definitely an all around important character in Zelda.

 

[Admiral Pit]

It only updates on weekdays so far, the site that is, so might as well get used to patience.

 

[Frostwraith]

Tingle has more chance than Impa, due to having another factor helping him: popularity. He's a popular character in Japan and stars in his own games.

Again, I think a Zelda newcomer this time is unlikely nor necessary.

Well, would you look at that...
The Smash bros site is STILL NOT updated.
This wait is just killing me...

Saturday.

 

[K41Z0]

Am hoping Link gets the Skyward Strike for Side B.

I hope so as well, though theres a chance that its not going to get changed. Look at Mario's down-b for example, its still FLUDD disappointingly.
Although Pit did get some changes.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah but Zelda is mostly popular in the west. Japan hates almost all Zelda games besides Ocarina of Time. And Tingle isn't exactly popular in the west.

I'll be able to suspect a Zelda newcomer after I see a Mario, DKC, Metroid and Pokémon newcomer. That, or Impa actually replaces Sheik, thus becoming a newcomer but keeping the Zelda roster the same in size.

 

[Deleted member]

Everybody knows Tingle is best Zelda character

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe it's because I wasn't here until the very end of Diddy's Impa propaganda that I'm positive of Impa, instead of disliking her.

She was mentioned in Zelda I and other's usually being Zelda's bodyguard or finding the hero and starting Link's adventures or helping you physically. She's also appeared in several games, shall I say, since I do count Zelda I and had a cameo in WW.

Where was she ever mentioned in Zelda 1 outside the manual?
And if we count cameos, then Tingle still has more.

 

[Diddy Kong]

What scares me most is people who want Tingle, Sheik and Ghirahim in the Smash roster. It's like they want Zelda to represent some kind of crossdressing gay orgie.

Cameos count? Cool, Impa as two. One in Wind Waker, a mention in Twilight Princess, and soon a cameo in Wind Waker HD Impa could easily appear in LTTP2 to.

 

[Frostwraith]

Yeah but Zelda is mostly popular in the west. Japan hates almost all Zelda games besides Ocarina of Time. And Tingle isn't exactly popular in the west.

Where have you seen that Japan hates almost all Zelda games? That sounds like bull**** you just made up.

And remember that the West isn't everything. Tingle may get in for his popularity in Japan (you know, the Japanese have a weird sense of humor), regardless of how hated he is in the West. If Sakurai thinks he brings something new to Smash Bros. and has unique moveset potential, he gets in, regardless of his hate in the West.

I doubt people would boycott Smash because of Tingle. It wouldn't surprise me if some people did, though.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Impa's still pretty minor and has a very small fanbase. SS helped, but she's still a vocal minority.

Tingle is extremely well known worldwide in comparison. And overall more popular. I'm an American and I find Tingle an excellent character. He's also fairly popular in the UK regions. He's not entirely hated in America as much as people think, too.

Basically, no, Impa has little to no chance before him due to still being barely notable in the series. Ghirahim had way more of an impact on the playerbase via SS. Tingle has been in quite a lot more games. Vaati was still a main character more than once. Really, Impa has kind of not much. It would also help if Sakurai recognized her, that is, before SS came out. She barely got so much as a mention in Melee and still no Trophy in Brawl. This is why I don't view her chances as high; Sakurai shows little care for her. Also, before people say Villager, he had a trophy/mention too. R.O.B. might not have had a Trophy before Brawl, though. On the other hand, he saved Nintendo and all of Video Games, so his importance is notable.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Actually, they're still Zelda games. They're part of the series and have not been declared canon or non-canon. So they still count at this time. Crossbow Training is too. Remember, ambiguous canon, which they're labeled as, means they haven't been given a specific declaration of where they fall in. No, not even the timeline does anything because Nintendo hasn't said a word about them. However, the only non-canon games so far at best have been the CD-i games. No other ones are specified by Nintendo and could be either, or, officially.Since they don't have any of the main cast of Zelda characters (Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf or Vaati but they're not as needed as they haven't been in some games before.) and they don't start with Legend of Zelda, I don't really count it as a Zelda game. It would be like calling a DK, Yoshi, or Wario game a Mario game.



You also forgot the Kinstone Fusions as well. Honestly, Tingle's actions are just as important in the Zelda games as Impa's overall. Storyline or otherwise. There's nothing that makes either more important. No, number of games isn't meaningful. That's just how often they happen to show up, but don't say jack about their importance. I thought all he did there was take the Kinstones you haven't gotten yet, but I may be mistaken, I'm still playing through the game.

As for Vaati, being the major boss and kind of the entire reason for Minish Cap to even be a game, as well as the original Four Swords... that's not important? I dunno how you can say that. He was basically the Ganon of two games, and played a super prominent role in Minish Cap, still doing more than Impa does in OOT. Again, Impa's importance is given too much credit. She's heavily important in two games, and in the rest, plays a useful but very small role. Tingle's exactly the same(not counting his own games) Impa overall has been a very minor character, where Sheik officially hasn't, being Zelda herself. She's as minor as Ganondorf, basically.
You don't really need to say anything about Vaati. He's my most wanted character for SSB4 so I won't argue much of anything against Vaati.


Because Sakurai gives no care about Canon anymore. He considers the Anime heavily important for Smash, which is not the Canon to the games. In addition, he knew Zelda could fight... because of the non-canon games and cartoons where she does. That's kind of the only way for her to be a plausible character, because of any media showing they could fight or do some kind of attack. Fox/Falco/Wolf all had on-foot segments overall. Captain Falcon had a comic about him fighting. R.O.B. had Mario Kart where he could be violent enough with items. Every possible fighter has something showing they could legitimately fight, no matter what the source, and don't expect a canon source to mean jack for what makes them notable.
I think the only thing that heavily matters on the anime is Pokemon, since in the games no Pokemon has any preference over the other. Even if Zelda didn't fight in the shows, she is too important not to be playable.

 

[Deleted member]

Impa fits in along Tingle, Sheik, and Ghirahim in the "crossdressing gay orgie".

After all, she is a hermaphrodite.

 

[Metal Overlord]

...

Yeah, I'm gonna move away from the Zelda talk if that's cool with everybody

I wonder what the new DKC game (which I can't wait for) could mean for Dixie Kong in terms of new abilities and whatnot

The new enemies BTW are looking better than dem Tiki's in DKCR IMO