Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Robert of Normandy]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdentityCrisis

You're calling him a comic book? Not sure how he should take that...

 

[~automatic]

Wrong identity crisis, lmao.

 

[Sword_kirby777]

Why? I don't know who I am ANYMORE! Am I myself, or am I you? OR AM I THE WORLD? I DON'T KNOW!

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

You're a DC comic book, you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

You're a DC comic book, you should be ashamed of yourself.

If he was 52, it would be okay. At least he's not Countdown *shudder*.

 

[Sword_kirby777]

I'm not any of it, I swear! I don't know who I am! I claim amnesia. That's it, AMNESIA...

 

[Metal Overlord]

Haha, I love TVTropes

 

[ChaosSoul]

Wouldent mind seein banjo or conker kif rare would comeback to nintejdo

 

[FlareHabanero]

What in the world is Nintejdo?

 

[Sword_kirby777]

Nintejdo? I'm more interested in 'kif'. Perhaps we should be nice though, I mean, y'know...just because.

In any case, Rare was bought by Microsoft, so the Banjo-Kazooie and the Conker series basically belong to Microsoft. Unfortunately, I don't see them coming into Smash 4.

Now, I've read this thread, and I'm almost positive that this question hasn't been asked: What stages from Brawl would you NOT want to see in Smash 4? Can't very well take out the competitive stages (Final Destination, Smashville, Battlefield, etc.) but like Hanenbow? I could do without it. Same with Distant Planet, don't need/want it.

Addition: By the way, I hope you're all happy, you got me on TVTropes. Grrr at you all!

 

[Metal Overlord]

Take out the Mario Bros stage

 

[FlareHabanero]

Take out the Mario Bros stage

D-, see me after class young man. I'll teach you how to not suck at a non-Final Destination stage and have some

Spoiler

fun

.

 

[Big-Cat]

BS. That stage was just not fun. It's not about sucking at the stage just that it's not fun. Are you going to tell me you liked New Pork City?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Oh I'm sorry that I'm not turning a fun multiplayer game into a competitive pile of drivel. To fix up my mistakes, It will be nothing but no items and Final Destination 24/7 for the rest of my life. Because heaven forbid there is actual diversity and I ignore 98% of the game that was programmed in the game to begin with, the majority of which makes the game feel more exciting to play.

Seriously though, I love stages that are not Final Destination or anything similar to it. It just feel so bland all the time when people are so "NO ITEMS, FOX ONLY, FINAL DESTIONATION" on my *** every single time I try to play with friends.

 

[Big-Cat]

That's what happens when all the other stages resort to gimmicks or distract from the fighting. Next game, they need to try to actually diversify the so called neutral stages. Take a look at how 3D fighters have done their stages. They have similarities in their features between certain stages, but the sizes of the stages also vary without having to resort to gimmicks. To give an example, some stages in Virtua Fighter have walls of varying heights while others have none making it far easier for ringouts and then the size and shape of the stages vary as well. Tekken Tag 2 has stages with destroyable walls, balconies, floors, etc. along with stages that are infinite in size with no walls of breakable floors. As a matter of fact, Castle Siege could've been a good example of a stage with multiple tiers and floor breaks instead of warping around.

It also wouldn't hurt if they tried to make the stages feel like you're actually fighting there WITH NO GIMMICKS.

I'm ok with stage hazards so long as its option though.

 

[---]

Are you going to tell me you liked New Pork City?

I do.

Anyway as for which stages will return and which won't is entirely subjective. I myself don't want to see Summit, Mario Bros., or any of the DK Brawl stages.

 

[Big-Cat]

I just like New Pork City for the music. Other than that, it's too big to actually accomplish anything.

 

[smashmanx7]

I would love spear pillar return it was one of my favorites also delfino plaza was pretty good to.

 

[Big-Cat]

Just don't have that mirrored controls thing. That was horrible.

 

[smashmanx7]

It was. Also it wouldnt kill them if they made that blurry vission thing a tad less blurry first time i played it I thought I was going blind.

 

[~automatic]

That flip thing was f***in' rad. SP's effects were cool imo but the stage is terrible for competitive play. If I were a ***** I'd pick Falco and see if I could JV 4 stock a scrub via time out on that stage, lmao.

Take out the Mario Bros stage

I thought Mario Bros was a great throwback stage. The problem with MB is that the stage hazards were extremely OP, probably for teh sake of authenticity since the Koopas do kill in one hit in the MB game. At any rate it's a large stage with silly stage hazards and walkoffs which wouldn't be a prob ideally but CGs. At least it didn't have those annoying flames and floors that randomly turn icy. @_@

That's what happens when all the other stages resort to gimmicks or distract from the fighting. Next game, they need to try to actually diversify the so called neutral stages.

More stages that aren't invasive, have weird dimensions and gimmicky **** would definitely be a welcome concept.

 

[smashmanx7]

Wario ware definetly needs to come but this time with more games and item power-ups seems to me liked alot of lost potential to me.

 

[SmashKing201]

I hope if they plan to bring in Mushroom Kingdom that its not the "Mushroomy Kingdom" that was constantly scrolling. I found the scrolling to be very annoying and a distraction to the match itself.

I would like to see the Mushroom Kingdom from Smash 64 instead or a new version similar to it

 

[smashmanx7]

It was a homage to the old super mario bros you know the side - scroller that why it was side-scrolling I could never understand that dervies from the game play stuff i just wish musroomy kingdom had a more memorable super mario stage

Edit : I would also love to see the stage from 64 come back

 

[Big-Cat]

More stages that aren't invasive, have weird dimensions and gimmicky **** would definitely be a welcome concept.

I kept reading that as you wanting those things over and over for some reason. But yeah, stage design has got to get an overhaul. Again, looking at 3D fighter stages would be a good place to look for inspiration. I would rather feel more that the stage layout plays a role, not the hazards. At the same time, I don't think stages should favor any one character or another - i.e. counterpoint stages, but that's a metagame product.

BTW, I thought that the Mario Kart stage was a pretty cool stage minus the karts (like that as an option though) and that your broken stuff like chain grabs could cause easy mode wall carries to the opponent's death.

 

[Sword_kirby777]

I think as well that all of the stage hazards/gimmicks should be able to be toggled on/off. Also, as for New Pork City, I think that the size of the stage itself would be great for a 6-8 player game, but for 1-on-1, it was horrid. Even 4-player Free-For-All wasn't very fun on it, especially the way the stage was designed. It was a jumbled pile of poo. Mushroomy Kingdom was a fun stage, and I liked that it could be either level 1-1 or 1-2. For competitive play, it's a no go, but for casual and fun play, it was an interesting stage, especially with the "?" blocks working and giving items. If I'm not mistaken, even the disguised blocks and hidden blocks were there too, so that made things even more interesting.

If the stage hazards were able to be toggled, then there's a possibility that ANY stage could very well be competitive, and there's a chance that even "bland" stages such as Final Destination could have some kind of hazard every once in a while, if you wanted them toggled on. That would make for interesting fun tournaments too.

So yeah, I also vote that New Pork City, unless it gets a massive overhaul in design, shouldn't come back in Smash 4.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

I say Fourside should be the returning stage from the Mother series rather than New Pork City. It's not as massive, it's not as gimmicky with the exception of the UFO. But otherwise it works a lot better than New Pork, and it's a lot more memorable.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I say instead of returning either, they make a new stage based on Magicant from Mother 1

 

[Sword_kirby777]

Fourside was a much better stage all-around between the two. Problem with the stages from the Mother Series, it seems that all of the stages they introduce are gimmicky.

 

[Big-Cat]

I say instead of returning either, they make a new stage based on Magicant from Mother 1

I support this. Magicant and Saturn Valley are both good options for MOTHER stages. I wouldn't mind Tazmily either.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I really wish the community could get past this whole "neutral stages (meaning stages that are flat and non-interactive) are the best and most fair and we shouldn't play on other stages" thing. I really loved the diversity of stages in Brawl, and if you were serious about playing on a lot of them, more stages than not were fair. Really, some of the best tournament matches I had in my time were on Norfair, Green Greens, Rainbow Cruise, and other stages like that, and the fact that some people were so adamant about banning the sources of some of the deepest, most competitive gameplay I saw out of Brawl really did just break my heart, especially since it was a big nerf to my main (G&W) and a big buff to the most obnoxious character to fight against by far (ICs). I don't have sour grapes in the long run or anything so don't get me wrong, but I really do think the whole situation represents a big mistake by the community.

I strongly feel Brawl just got less fair and less interesting by banning more stages, and the way stages are built in such a variety of ways is one of the defining aspects of smash bros anyway so it's something we should be looking to emphasize. Rather than just fearing hazards and worrying about "fighting the stage", you can think of how you can use the stage to your advantage so if you think of it as a player it's your teammate not another enemy. If a hazard is coming, one player may attack in parallel with the hazard forcing his opponent to either increase his exposure to the hazard or to the attacker ideally failing to defend against both, but of course the defender will be looking for tricky spots in all cases to remind the attacker of the dangers of playing with fire by doing things like grabbing the attacker and making them both get hit or even better back throwing the attacker into the hazard and shielding at the last minute himself. You can think of it just like doubles actually; in general you know your teammate well enough to predict his attacks and try to attack in coherent unison, but the opponents will be looking to throw off your synergy and somehow get you to hit each other at any chance. That constant oncoming threat in itself was always a small threat since the hazards in Brawl are stupidly easy to avoid as independent actors and tend to be overwhelmingly predictable unlike a human player, but simply by being there they open up a world of options for both players as it's yet another game element they can compete over twisting to their individual advantage. All of those diverse stage elements are the same way; if you only look at that latest "gimmick" and instead of saying "that will get in my way!" ask "how can I use this to make myself win?", it really does expand the game in so many awesome ways, and as someone who has lived it I can say that yes it really is the most fun when your opponent comes to that same realization since easy wins on weird stages are great but well-fought battles are what we're looking for in the end and it's really very interesting how tactics evolve when both players are really thinking smart about what they need to do and constantly adapting.

I don't want smash 4 to have the same story, and I've put tons of thought into anything and everything I can do with the natural new beginning of a new smash game to make a better outcome since this isn't a problem with the games it's a community issue that we can work past. It's not an easy problem at all, but on some level I just have to believe that banning more and more as time goes on isn't inevitable though I'm pretty convinced the "starter/counterpick" dichotomy from the start guarantees that outcome (since it's only logical if starters are the most fair that they are the only stages we want to play on, and if they aren't the most fair then they don't deserve special status so the existence of the special status is a kind of evidence that they are the most fair) at which point you run into very complex logistical issues on how you have 30 hypothetical legal stages if all stages are equally legal. The best I can do is using random with random reset allowed twice per side (guarantee of non-repeat on stage vetoed), but randomness in stage selection can be swingy in the bad ways especially since I'm looking to have a set of stages that aren't similar to each other. I'm still working on it; luckily I still have lots of time, and if I'm doubly lucky, smash 4 itself could help me out with official online ranked having standards that are useful or something like that.

 

[Sword_kirby777]

I have nothing against the variety of stages, and the hazards/gimmicks within. I think that they spice the game up, and that they can be quite fun. The starter stages are obviously bland and boring, and the competitive scene is more about the characters and how one plays them than anything else. I think that it would be neat to have the competitive scene utilize stages and hazards within. You're right, the competitive scene has been severely limited, but with those said limitations are brought a more "fair" sense of using certain characters. I mean, trying to use Ganondorf, Bowser, Ike, and certain other less-mobile characters on Rainbow Cruise proves to be a difficult challenge. Their lack of precise mobility make it harder to use them on the stage, especially against players that use Meta Knight, Pit, Marth, and other characters that have much better mobility. I'd take my Ike against a Marth player on Smashville WAY before I'd take the same matchup on Rainbow Cruise (I'm not saying my Ike is good or anything, just an example). If Smash 4 is more balanced in terms of characters, then taking Ike on Rainbow Cruise against Marth wouldn't be a bad idea, but that's not the stage's fault, it's the character design.

As for the stage hazards themselves, I would love to see them in competitive play, but I think that they should be able to be toggled, so that there could be both, to appease the whole spectrum of players. Those that don't like the hazards (Lava on Norfair, Cars on Port Town Aero Dive, Claw/Cannon/Laser on Halberd, etc.) could turn them off, while those that don't mind could have them on. It would make the game much more tuned to the players, and therefore to any kind of tournament that would arise. Also, to make the scene even more interesting, have the stages toggle hazards separately. Like, have Halberd keep it's hazards, but turn off Aero Dive's hazards. That would lead into more options, and varying sets of rules. Same with stages like Wario Ware. Don't like the mini games? Turn them off. Like them? Turn them on.

I certainly hope that Smash 4 will be awesome regardless. I don't know that having an official standard would really matter, since the players will ultimately decide what they want to do, but then again, having the standard gives players an idea how to do it. There would likely be disagreements, but, as you said, it's a community issue that we as the player base would have to overcome.

 

[Baskerville]

Just have the option to turn Stage Hazards on/off.
Then that way both sides are happy.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Just have the option to turn Stage Hazards on/off.
Then that way both sides are happy.

Partially agreed, there would have been a few stages in Balrw that would have been a lot more fun for me personally if stage hazards could have been turned off. Still, I'd like for the next game to have a variety of more normal, balanced stages as well as a variety of the more chaotic stages.

 

[Wario Bros.]

Here's your latest Masahiro Sakurai update: Masahiro Sakurai just lost 18 years worth of PlayStation, PS2, and PS3 data on his PS3 hard drive that got corrupted.

Man, that sucks badly (and I never knew Sakurai had any PlayStation systems).

But at least he can look forward to the Smash Bros hitting the PS3 next month.

 

[Big-Cat]

I strongly feel Brawl just got less fair and less interesting by banning more stages, and the way stages are built in such a variety of ways is one of the defining aspects of smash bros anyway so it's something we should be looking to emphasize. Rather than just fearing hazards and worrying about "fighting the stage", you can think of how you can use the stage to your advantage so if you think of it as a player it's your teammate not another enemy. If a hazard is coming, one player may attack in parallel with the hazard forcing his opponent to either increase his exposure to the hazard or to the attacker ideally failing to defend against both, but of course the defender will be looking for tricky spots in all cases to remind the attacker of the dangers of playing with fire by doing things like grabbing the attacker and making them both get hit or even better back throwing the attacker into the hazard and shielding at the last minute himself. You can think of it just like doubles actually; in general you know your teammate well enough to predict his attacks and try to attack in coherent unison, but the opponents will be looking to throw off your synergy and somehow get you to hit each other at any chance. That constant oncoming threat in itself was always a small threat since the hazards in Brawl are stupidly easy to avoid as independent actors and tend to be overwhelmingly predictable unlike a human player, but simply by being there they open up a world of options for both players as it's yet another game element they can compete over twisting to their individual advantage. All of those diverse stage elements are the same way; if you only look at that latest "gimmick" and instead of saying "that will get in my way!" ask "how can I use this to make myself win?", it really does expand the game in so many awesome ways, and as someone who has lived it I can say that yes it really is the most fun when your opponent comes to that same realization since easy wins on weird stages are great but well-fought battles are what we're looking for in the end and it's really very interesting how tactics evolve when both players are really thinking smart about what they need to do and constantly adapting.

Again, the bold goes back to what I was saying with 3D Fighters. In a game like Tekken, parts of the stage like walls can be seen as assets to the player since you can use them to corner the opponent's mobility and/or have certain combos specifically for the wall game. I would rather something "consistent" like this than a random stage hazard coming in. In other words, I'd rather that the luck in the matches is sorely between the players and not some outside interference.

I don't feel hazards that can kill the player are the answer.

EDIT: To further clarify, I believe that the stage's shape should play an important role. That in itself can get the job done without any BS.

 

[---]

The thing that gets me with many Brawl stages is not the stage hazards, a lot of them are actually pretty fun IMO, but the poor stage design.

Mario Bros. just doesn't fit well with Smash's mechanics, The Summit pretty much screws over the Tether Recovery characters due to no ledge grabbing, and on 75m it's just plain hard to fight there due to small platforms, ladders that interfere with aerial attacks and the main fighting platforms being full of stages hazards as well as being right next to the edge of the stage.

Other than that I'm mostly 50/50 on turning stage hazards off.

 

[Big-Cat]

You know? That reminds me. I'd like to see stages like Mario Bros. and 75m as minigame stages. That could be something better. In fact, I would love to see not just the proper return of Break the Targest, Board the Platforms, and Race to the Finish (which needs be better designed IMO), but some brand new minigame modes. Perhaps a mode where you have to keep a ball that gradually gets heavier for as long as possible with juggling.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's your latest Masahiro Sakurai update: Masahiro Sakurai just lost 18 years worth of PlayStation, PS2, and PS3 data on his PS3 hard drive that got corrupted.

Man, that sucks badly (and I never knew Sakurai had any PlayStation systems).

But at least he can look forward to the Smash Bros hitting the PS3 next month.

Sakurai can't laugh. **** just got real.

 

[Frostwraith]

Here's your latest Masahiro Sakurai update: Masahiro Sakurai just lost 18 years worth of PlayStation, PS2, and PS3 data on his PS3 hard drive that got corrupted.

Man, that sucks badly (and I never knew Sakurai had any PlayStation systems).

But at least he can look forward to the Smash Bros hitting the PS3 next month.

It happens... I'd be pissed too, but it's never the end of the world. I'm somewhat blunt on these things, but what worth is there sitting on a rock and crying about it, right?

Sakurai can't laugh. **** just got real.

Yep, it indeed got real. Hope that doesn't reflect on SSB4's development... just kidding!