Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Kamikazek]

I don't really care how people use a term when there is a official well defined definition to it means only one thing. And what "second party" means is a game that is made by a third party company but funded by a platform owner and not the third part company itself which makes the game first party for the platform owner. There is no interpretation there.

I'm not sure if I can articulate what I've been trying to say any better than I already have but I'll try. It doesn't matter if you think the term needs a fan definition when it already has a well defined industry definition. It doesn't change the fact that there are two definitions of the term. You can say that you hate that the fan definition of second party exists. You can point out that it's different from the industry definition and explain what the industry definition is, after all it's useful to know and a lot of people don't know it. You can point out that the industry definition is the original definition. That's all perfectly fine. But it doesn't change the fact that there are two definitions and it doesn't make one definition wrong. If a term can be used within a discourse and convey an intrinsic meaning that everyone understands it is by definition a real term. Like I already said, you yourself explained the fan definition for second party, which is exactly what I consider to be the fan definition for second party, and what probably everyone else who goes to this forum is aware is a definition for third party. And the way he used the term made it clear he isn't referring using the industry definition of second party. Therefore, everyone understands what he's saying. Therefore, he is not misusing the word and there's no reason to chastise him for it.

I have never in my entire life heard the term sarcasm used "properly" outside of an English class, but I don't say someone is using the word wrong when they use the popular definition of the word because everyone understands what they mean when they say it. Definition is all about meaning.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Honestly speaking, I still prefer Kanye West's music over Taylor Swift's...

 

[Moon Monkey]

Honestly speaking, I still prefer Kanye West's music over Taylor Swift's...

I miss the old Kanye. This Yeezus mumbo-jumbo he is on is utterly horrendous.

 

[Pazzo.]

Sorry, Ignore this.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I liked like 2 songs from Kanye, and only 1 of them because it featured Daft Punk

 

[Pazzo.]

The issue is the new IPs they do release:

1. Don't come outside of Japan, unless really successful. (Like Smash Bros., Bravely Default, Xenoblade etc..)
2. They aren't marketed properly so only a handful of the user base really knows about them. (I didn't see any Pushmo or Dillion Rolling Western aired on Nick, CN or Disney) People don't even know about the games that exist on eShop. Hell they don't even know the Wii U exist.
3. They aren't games that interest people (E.G Wii Music, Nintendo Land)
4. In an era where people seem to rely on what gaming review sites say, if a game noticeably unpolished it will turn a lot of people away. (IGN, Gamespot - W101)

Nintendo needs to really push games. They need to push indie games, and make games that will interest the majority of its users. (easier said than done)
I guarantee you, the average gamer is going to be more interested in an action/adventure than a puzzle game.

The sad thing is the clueless consumer who isn't a video game fanatic will almost always opt to get Mario a game they know, over a new game. Which only encourages Nintendo to make even more Mario games.

Hey, I'd watch a D'SRW show!

 

[SD Grandmaster Hero]

Due to the fact that there's no Smash scene where I live, I'm really hoping for a good online experience. Because we all know Brawl's was terrible.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Due to the fact that there's no Smash scene where I live, I'm really hoping for a good online experience. Because we all know Brawl's was terrible.

It was at least playable enough to have fun. When it wasn't all Final Destination all the time.(and not just Fox and no Items...)

 

[κomıc]

I don't like how they are ripping assets from source games. Nothing in that stage and Skyloft looks built from the ground up. It all looks ripped and up-res'd.

 

[SD Grandmaster Hero]

I don't like how they are ripping assets from source games. Nothing in that stage and Skyloft looks built from the ground up. It all looks ripped and up-res'd.

Why do more work than you need to?

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

“People keep complaining that they want the game to be more like Melee,” continued Sakurai, “Some people made a modification of Brawl and now think that they’re better than me. I dare them to say that to my face. I’ll have a real brawl with them and show them that their little mod means nothing in the grand scheme of things.
All they can do is make one of my games more like one of my other games. And when my new game comes out, everyone will stop playing their little project and play with a real game.”

BAHAHAHA!
Some of the articles on that site are entertaining. People say it's meant to be satirical, just so you know.

http://www.p4rgaming.com/microsoft-...because-americans-love-a-good-underdog-story/

http://www.p4rgaming.com/mario-party-leading-cause-of-video-game-violence/

http://www.p4rgaming.com/microsoft-...lease-xbox-one-to-prevent-overheating-issues/

I don't like how they are ripping assets from source games. Nothing in that stage and Skyloft looks built from the ground up. It all looks ripped and up-res'd.

Pretty sure Brawl did that with Delfino Plaza, Port Town, and Bridge of Eldin.
(well, more like "down-res'd" for Delfino Plaza, but you get the idea)

------

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

They also have an article that says that peach was removed from Mario 3D World 2 because people were confused why they were killing goombas if Peach wasn't kidnapped.

Like the Mario gang were just killing them for fun

 

[Kamikazek]

Oh okay, I guess we are associating "clueless" with two different groups of people. I would consider your definition of "clueless gamer" still a gamer. For them to even to have found Bastion they would need to have a Steam/XBLA/PSN account to even purchase that. Once you are that deep into searching I wouldn't really consider them clueless. I consider them apart of the "hardcore" gamers, because they are putting more time and effort into playing and finding games than your average clueless casual gamer.

I think i agree with you on pretty much everything. One thing i'll pick out:

"Basically I don't think most games are actually truly competing with CoD or Wii fit because publishers know that there's a large demographic that's only going to buy those games and have approximately zero barring on the sales of any other games"

I agree and disagree, While true certain games will sell well regardless of the circumstance, all games are competing against each other. They are competing for the almighty consumer dollar. A brand new game indie or AAA, is going to have hard time gaining sales when released on the same days as CoD. When the average casual consumer sees the media hype of CoD, they are going to gravitate to CoD.

The issue for Nintendo is that the games they made that once attracted these new consumers on the Wii, aren't pulling them back in for the Wii U.

Horay, I think we're getting close to a meeting point!
Right right, I would still consider a clueless gamer a gamer, hence "clueless gamer". It's different from the consumer who barely notices games exist but also very different from what one would call the informed gamer, with very different interests and buying habits to either. Depending on who's talking they may get lumped in with the casual crowd or the hardcore crowd, which I think is wrong because they're really their own group.
I do have to disagree heavily with the idea that going to XBLA or PSN requires deep investment. If you bothered to buy the console at all you'll probably at least give the menu a once over, and if I recall Xbox basically guides you through making an account and shows you the marketplace when you first boot it up, and they are quite blatant about advertisements. Plus weren't you just calling CoD a casual game? Basically no one plays CoD without an online account. From that point on it's just a matter of window shopping through the store which if they like shopping people just might do regardless of if the like games or not(I HATE watching tv but I've browsed through tv shows on my PS3 and in other places because why the hell not) and keep in mind I'm talking about people who enjoy games but just don't know much about them. Also keep in mind that we are in a time where even a person who is nowhere close to giving a damn about games will browse the app store on their phone and download bejeweled or something. Doing that on a console isn't much different. It's arguably even easier than going to a store and buying a game.

Right there are groups of people who might decide to buy CoD instead of a different game, but that's not the massive consumer group that only buys systems for one game. Those aren't people who end up buying CoD instead of something else, those are people that weren't going to buy anything game and only decided to buy one because it was CoD. Therefore in terms of that demographic, which is where most of the buying power is at, no one is competing with CoD, so all those extra sales that demographic aren't sales that are being taken from other games. But yes games like CoD absolutely do compete with other games for the purchase of the more involved buyer and indeed for the "hardcore" gamers as well, since a LOT of them buy CoD too. I very much tripped over my tongue with what I was trying to get across in my last post there.

 

[Vintage Creep]

The funny part about that fake statement is that it's right

All right, this forum SUCKS. It has become unbearable to click things at least three times to do anything. My God.

 

[Kamikazek]

All they can do is make one of my games more like one of my other games.

My God. No offense to the project M guys, but that's the most beautiful burn I've heard in quite some time.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I love Project M and the team behind it by the way, they're great talented guys and they basically work for free.
What I don't love are fanboys who come out with **** like "WTF Sakurai, Skyloft stage? He copied Project:M!".
Come on, really. You can't compare the two things.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly, we have no idea if he ever looked at Project M at all. It's not impossible he saw them and went with the idea.

He can be inspired by tons of things, after all. He did look at something other than just the Pokemon games, especially for the playable character list. He also damn well knows of Smashboard's competitive scene specifically. I ain't saying he copied it, but I am saying that he could have if he wanted to and saw it.

The whole point I'm getting at is that neither is provable and we seriously don't know what he looks at except for the parts he outright tells us. He's that unpredictable in his decisions.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Honestly, we have no idea if he ever looked at Project M at all. It's not impossible he saw them and went with the idea.

He can be inspired by tons of things, after all. He did look at something other than just the Pokemon games, especially for the playable character list. He also damn well knows of Smashboard's competitive scene specifically. I ain't saying he copied it, but I am saying that he could have if he wanted to and saw it.

The whole point I'm getting at is that neither is provable and we seriously don't know what he looks at except for the parts he outright tells us. He's that unpredictable in his decisions.

The whole reason behind Skyloft being present in Project: M is because it's the most logical location to represent the newest Zelda in a game like this. Which is the same reason why Sakurai put it in Sm4sh.

But that's not what I was talking about: I find it laughable when fanboys **** on the original game comparing it to a mod of it. It's just stupid.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Horay, I think we're getting close to a meeting point!
Right right, I would still consider a clueless gamer a gamer, hence "clueless gamer". It's different from the consumer who barely notices games exist but also very different from what one would call the informed gamer, with very different interests and buying habits to either. Depending on who's talking they may get lumped in with the casual crowd or the hardcore crowd, which I think is wrong because they're really their own group.
I do have to disagree heavily with the idea that going to XBLA or PSN requires deep investment. If you bothered to buy the console at all you'll probably at least give the menu a once over, and if I recall Xbox basically guides you through making an account and shows you the marketplace when you first boot it up, and they are quite blatant about advertisements. Plus weren't you just calling CoD a casual game? Basically no one plays CoD without an online account. From that point on it's just a matter of window shopping through the store which if they like shopping people just might do regardless of if the like games or not(I HATE watching tv but I've browsed through tv shows on my PS3 and in other places because why the hell not) and keep in mind I'm talking about people who enjoy games but just don't know much about them. Also keep in mind that we are in a time where even a person who is nowhere close to giving a damn about games will browse the app store on their phone and download bejeweled or something. Doing that on a console isn't much different. It's arguably even easier than going to a store and buying a game.

Right there are groups of people who might decide to buy CoD instead of a different game, but that's not the massive consumer group that only buys systems for one game. Those aren't people who end up buying CoD instead of something else, those are people that weren't going to buy anything game and only decided to buy one because it was CoD. Therefore in terms of that demographic, which is where most of the buying power is at, no one is competing with CoD, so all those extra sales that demographic aren't sales that are being taken from other games. But yes games like CoD absolutely do compete with other games for the purchase of the more involved buyer and indeed for the "hardcore" gamers as well, since a LOT of them buy CoD too. I very much tripped over my tongue with what I was trying to get across in my last post there.

Well it all depends on you definition of "Hardcore" and "Casual" to lump these individuals into.
For me, my definition of hardcore gamer is someone who actively seeks and plays more than one type of game. A person can spend 100000 hours playing CoD but i would call them a hardcore gamer, just a hardcore CoD player.
Casual gamers are as i described earlier, gamers who don't seek out games and will only play games when friends and family play.

With this personal definition, i group the gamers you described as hardcore gamers. If you have your own definition please share, because these types of labels are really hard to pin down, which is why i try to avoid them all together.

Going back to my definition of casual gamers, I think the very act of looking up games with the intention of buying them makes one more than just a casual gamer. Yes I consider CoD a casual game, because an overwelming amount of gamers who do purchase the game annually are "casual" gamers. If all they play is one game i wouldn't really label them as a gamer. That's like someone who only watches Taken 2 considering themselves a movie connoisseur, when they really only have interest in one movie.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I thought a hardcore gamer is someone that likes their games extremely explicit

 

[Moon Monkey]

I thought a hardcore gamer is someone that likes their games extremely explicit

That's my definition for Dude-Bro-Man-Babies.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I was trying to make a joke but I guess I worded it wrong

...I was using a different definition of explicit

 

[Kamikazek]

Well it all depends on you definition of "Hardcore" and "Casual" to lump these individuals into.
For me, my definition of hardcore gamer is someone who actively seeks and plays more than one type of game. A person can spend 100000 hours playing CoD but i would call them a hardcore gamer, just a hardcore CoD player.
Casual gamers are as i described earlier, gamers who don't seek out games and will only play games when friends and family play.

With this personal definition, i group the gamers you described as hardcore gamers. If you have your own definition please share, because these types of labels are really hard to pin down, which is why i try to avoid them all together.

Going back to my definition of casual gamers, I think the very act of looking up games with the intention of buying them makes one more than just a casual gamer. Yes I consider CoD a casual game, because an overwelming amount of gamers who do purchase the game annually are "casual" gamers. If all they play is one game i wouldn't really label them as a gamer. That's like someone who only watches Taken 2 considering themselves a movie connoisseur, when they really only have interest in one movie.

I have no definition for hardcore and casual. Like I've said they aren't terms that I ever use, except to talk about other people using them. Everyone I talk to has a fairly radically different idea of what constitutes casual or hardcore, which makes the distinction rather useless.
Yes by your specific definition the people I am talking about would be hardcore gamers. Although whether they're hardcore or casual is entirely irrelevant anyways. My reason for talking about casual and hardcore was basics

The point I was trying to make about CoD players was something else entirely and it was a throwaway point anyways, just disregard it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I was trying to make a joke but I guess I worded it wrong

...I was using a different definition of explicit

That's... pretty funny. XD

I blame Mileena for this. Somehow.

To me, this is how I define Casual and Hardcore.

Casual = Barely plays games.

Hardcore = A serious gamer, they play a lot.(doesn't matter WHAT the play at all)

Games aren't actually hardcore or casual, it's just who happens to play them at that time. Games are either played at your own pace, or are played competitively. There's really no other way to play 'em in reality. Competitively doesn't mean VS each other directly, just some kind of contest, with a competitive mindset. If it isn't that, you're simply playing at your own pace, whether often or sometimes(or even rarely). It's simply best put as non-competitive.

 

[Aurane]

Like the Mario gang were just killing them for fun

After playing Mario Party and Mario Kart, I think that should be considered true. "Save the princess, but enjoy doing it."

 

[SD Grandmaster Hero]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WMSQNVhMqA Mario is a MONSTER!

 

[κomıc]

Why do more work than you need to?

Because laziness is unacceptable. They could rip assets off and touch them up. But I don't see that here. Especially that giant angel statue in Skyloft. They really need to touch up the textures and artifacts.

 

[SD Grandmaster Hero]

Because laziness is unacceptable. They could rip assets off and touch them up. But I don't see that here. Especially that giant angel statue in Skyloft. They really need to touch up the textures and artifacts.

Laziness? Working day after day while dealing with tendonitis is far from laziness. Also, anytime you see a background decoration up close, it never looks as good as the actual solid parts of the stage. They're far away so you won't be able to notice every single detail of it.

 

[Metal Overlord]

I miss the old Kanye. This Yeezus mumbo-jumbo he is on is utterly horrendous.

pretty much this

I'm more of a fan of his beats tho

 

[Wario Bros.]

Just found out on a forums I go to gave me an award at their annual Awards Ceremony: I'm crowned as the "Most Underrated". Nice to know I'm appreciated.

Anywho, Miiverse is flooding with Rosalina in Smash posts mainly because of Super Mario 3D World this Friday and three straight days of Mario Galaxy Pic of the Days (that and a crap load of Happy 1st Birthday to Wii U posts). I think we might get something Super Mario 3D World (or The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds) this Friday but it could be something besides a character (though a character would be nice).

 

["Shion"]

Who the hell is talking about Kanye?

Get that **** out of here.

 

[The Original Robot boy]

It was at least playable enough to have fun. When it wasn't all Final Destination all the time.(and not just Fox and no Items...)

"Too ya ! " "FIIIIIYAAAA!" "COME ON"! "MASSION CAMPLETE"

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

"Too ya ! " "FIIIIIYAAAA!" "COME ON"! "MASSION CAMPLETE"

Still better. But Melee's FD was better, IMO.

 

[Vintage Creep]

You guys who don't like Kanye should just prepare yourself because Toon Linkye West was confirmed today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ty3nimfX72g

 

[Moon Monkey]

Who the hell is talking about Kanye?

Get that **** out of here.

He was pretty good back in 2000. He was on top of his game with The College Drop Out and Graduation.
After the Graduation, he started to go down hill... As said before he still does make sick beats and good track here and there.

 

[The Original Robot boy]

You guys who don't like Kanye should just prepare yourself because Toon Linkye West was confirmed today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ty3nimfX72g

 

[Diddy Kong]

Who the hell is talking about Kanye?

Get that **** out of here.

How can you be so heartless?

I had to do this

 

[Diddy Kong]

"Too ya ! " "FIIIIIYAAAA!" "COME ON"! "MASSION CAMPLETE"

No FIIIIYAAA, but WHANYAAAAAAAA! Man are you a casual or something? Speaking, I miss Whanya... Please Fox, if nothing else, can you please Whanya again? FIYYAAA just doesn't feel the same man. It doesn't.

 

[The Original Robot boy]

No FIIIIYAAA, but WHANYAAAAAAAA! Man are you a casual or something? Speaking, I miss Whanya... Please Fox, if nothing else, can you please Whanya again? FIYYAAA just doesn't feel the same man. It doesn't.

It was FIYAAAA just listen

 

[Oasis_S]

*REALLY FUNNY MEME POST HAHA*