Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Tree Gelbman]

People make a big deal, because big crossovers are always sure to bring out hype and the worst in usually calm fanbases..

Ah, the fun of MvC3 where people who hadn't touched a single Marvel comic book were so sure of what they were saying and the rest of us having to shake our heads at them. And sometimes vice versa in terms of the Capcom side of things.

''A RACCOON? WITH A GUN? LAME."
''WHY DO WE NEED FEMALE WOLVERINE"
''WHY DO WE NEED FEMALE HULK."
and last but not least ''WHERE IS MEGAMAN? WHY CAPCOM WHY?!"

People like to ***** on the internet. It's a proven fact. It makes them feel powerful and important because of the anonymous functions of it..

 

[Zyskyoto]

You make a pretty convincing argument.

I was being stalked so.... I'm a good boy now. I'm tryna be a contributing member to this place now. .____.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I'm interested in how crazy /v/ will go when it finally gets released.

"THIS GAME IS NOT OPTIMIZED AT 4320p AND 240FPS HOLY **** NINTENDO IS DOOMED HAHA TAKE THAT DRONES PC MASTER RACE WINS AGAIN."

 

[Swamp Sensei]

People make a big deal, because big crossovers are always sure to bring out hype and the worst in usually calm fanbases..

Ah, the fun of MvC3 where people who hadn't touched a single Marvel comic book were so sure of what they were saying and the rest of us having to shake our heads at them. And sometimes vice versa in terms of the Capcom side of things.

''A RACCOON? WITH A GUN? LAME."
''WHY DO WE NEED FEMALE WOLVERINE"
''WHY DO WE NEED FEMALE HULK."
and last but not least ''WHERE IS MEGAMAN? WHY CAPCOM WHY?!"

People like to ***** on the internet. It's a proven fact. It makes them feel powerful and important because of the animosity.

Still not as bad as people ******** about Phoenix Wright "CUZ HE KANT FIEHT!!!" and then asking for Jin in the same breath. -_-

 

[Oddyesy]

I feel this way about Ike and Fire Emblem debates.

It looks like I'll be summoning my demons to devour his soul.

Relevant?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Zero2570 I notice that you like a lot of things

Are you MorbidAltruism?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Still not as bad as people *****ing about Phoenix Wright "CUZ HE KANT FIEHT!!!" and then asking for Jin. -_-

Ah, yes that was a fun one. I knew there was something about Phoenix Wright that I kept forgetting.

I found MvC3 refreshing because it wasn't just all about picking the most likely suspects from Marvel and Capcom. It was about picking fan favorites and shoe ins and also giving smaller cult characters their chance to shine as well.

It's kind of something I'm hoping Smash Brothers will take to now that a majority of the bigger Nintendo names are playable. Because sometimes the cult characters and the unexpected have better potential than the expected.

I mean I love Resident Evil, but every single character in that series was dull to play in MvC3 in my opinion, but Phoenix Wright was a blast to play.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Zero2570 I notice that you like a lot of things

Are you MorbidAltruism?

No......

I-I couldn't resist his like-like influence....I have fell victim to the power of the like-like.

Plus most of what you guys say is really good, especially habanero, that dude is a riot with his FE pics and such.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

...Isn't ban-evading against the rules?

You could also attempt to contribute something worthwhile here and there. It's mostly just spam/irrelevant crap and silly pictures.

...Which is still the case. :/

And yeah, sorry, but as long as Toad has unique moves from Mario, Luigi, Bowser, and Peach in Smash, he's unique enough for Smash itself. Want to know what move he has in the Parties that they all have had? The Buttstomp. That's it of notable ones(and only Bowser has that of the main Mario cast). I really don't buy that Toad can't be separated or unique from the rest of the playable Mario set(that is, the 4 currently there) at all. I still find that a giant load of crock, and referencing other "possible" characters as if they are relevant, who aren't even playable in Smash, won't change that. Who cares if Toad has the same move as Waluigi. Is Waluigi in Smash? No? That don't bother. Irrelevant. Does Toad have tons of move choices that aren't among the Mario 4 in Smash? Yes? Then there's no problem.

The not being unique argument never worked for Toad, and it's been shown multiple times it was a bad premise. Especially when you're referencing moves that aren't even used by the SSB Core Mario cast. -_-

 

[Johnknight1]

I'm glad Nintendo isn't doing well, I just hope they take the opportunity to reassess themselves.

Well they are doing well with the 3DS, because they did all the right things.

As for the Wii U, agreed. You learn what you really are when you fail, and they've failed an failed and failed. Showing up is half the battle, being there on time is half of the rest of the battle, now Nintendo just needs to fix the other 25%, which is surprisingly really simple to fix.

If you want a good example of failure being great, look at the Virtual Boy. It was a failure in all senses, but man, it lead to some great technological development.

 

[FlareHabanero]

If you want a good example of failure being great, look at the Virtual Boy. It was a failure in all senses, but man, it lead to some great technological development.

Yes, red and black visuals from an abortion of a "handheld console" causing chronic headaches and eye bleeding is an achievement in technology.

 

[Johnknight1]

And yeah, sorry, but as long as Toad has unique moves from Mario, Luigi, Bowser, and Peach in Smash, he's unique enough for Smash itself.

But why couldn't Waluigi, Peach, Toadette, Toadsworth, or heck, Birdo use most of those moves=??? Like I said, there is very little that is unique to only Toad.

The not being unique argument never worked for Toad, and it's been shown multiple times it was a bad premise. Especially when you're referencing moves that aren't even used by the SSB Core Mario cast. -_-

The only moves I saw were that were unique to Toad was his specific brand of the head bash, the SMB2 jump, and that Wario's Woods move.

Yes, red and black visuals from an abortion of a "handheld console" causing chronic headaches and eye bleeding is an achievement in technology.

It setup what worked and didn't with 3D technology in gaming, as well as influenced handheld console design.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

But why couldn't Peach use most of those moves=??? Like I said, there is very little that is unique to only Toad.

Peach does not have those moves. None of those are halfway relevant as they are not already in Smash. You're the only one that even cares about that irrelevant crap. Peach has her own unique moves. Nor does she have a Propeller Hat. Yes, your argument is irrelevant and has no pertaining to Smash. Stop acting like his moves that aren't shown in Smash must be taken by characters not even in the game. it doesn't work that way.

The only moves I saw were that were unique to Toad was his specific brand of the head bash, the SMB2 jump, and that Wario's Woods move.

100% irrelevant. Again, the only thing that is already in Smash that Toad specifically uses are the Butt Stomp and the Turnips. Beyond that, every move can be used by him that isn't used by the core Mario 4.

It doesn't matter if somebody could potentially have a few similar moves with him. They don't in reality. Nobody has a Propeller Hat. Nobody can send spores out from their own body. And so on.

As long as you keep citing characters who aren't even playable, your argument will be entirely irrelevant. You have no idea how his uniqueness works at this point. He just has to have unique moves from the already playable characters to be put in; He is not lacking. At. All.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Okay, really? This again? I told you guys I don't appreciate being called that. I'll say this once more: Please stop calling me sausage. It makes no sense whatsoever and. If you're going to call me anything, Bryan or AuraSage will do.

I'm already having a bad afternoon as is, and I don't need it getting worse.

/rantover

How do you feel if I call Diddy Kong "Dinky Kong" and Shortiecanbrawl "Shawtie"?

 

[DeadlyAllianceLeader]

If it's okay to drop in here, with characters being revealed potentially multiple times per month, 2 the max so far aside from the Reveal Trailers at E3, do you guys think that the whole roster will be revealed before the game releases? Will the game be released sooner than expectations (not to assume anyone is assuming anything other than a release date of Next year)?

How many New comers do you guys think there will be? Do you think they'll balance out the number of veterans, or at least be close, or do you guys think that there will be fewer new slots than the previous entries of the Smash Bros. series?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

How do you feel if I call Diddy Kong "Dinky Kong" and Shortiecanbrawl "Shawtie"?

How about you not do that at all?

He wishes to not have that kind of nickname. Show some respect to him. Being a jerk to him isn't cool, especially when he specified he is not happy with it. It's not funny at all at this point.

Even Diddy at times finds our Impa jokes funny, and it's all in good fun. I don't do it to annoy him, I do it just to play around and nothing more. If he seriously hated them, from what I could tell, I'd do the right thing and stop and show him respect like a person should.

If people don't enjoy a nickname, just don't do it.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Sigh.

John just...

We get it you don't like Toad, so you would prefer all his unique potential be given to someone else already in game or hell someone else like say Waluigi who frankly should never get in over or before Toad as he's completely irrelevant to Mario outside of sports and spin-off titles.

 

[Johnknight1]

Wow, I mention Toadette, Toadsworth, and Waluigi, and you blow up because I wrote Peach instead of Daisy.

I forget one attack and you blow up. He's got 4 good unique moves that are mostly unique to him. There. I said it. That doesn't make him very unique.

Face it, moveset-wise and playstyle-wise, there is nothing unique about Toad that makes him worth adding, especially when there are dozens are far better and more unique characters that aren't playable in smash yet, like Isaac, Miis, Little Mac, Saki, Shulk, Takamaru, Plusle and Minun, Dixie Kong, K. Rool, Ridley, *insert a ton of Pokémon here*, Mach Rider, the Excite Biker, Krystal, Sukapon, Starman (from Pro Wrestling), Geno, Mallow, Dark Samus, Midna, Wolf Link, Four Swords Link, Masked Young Link, Skull Kid, the Masked Man, Porky, Paula, Duster, Flint, etc. etc. etc.

No more outdated than stages like Frigate Orpheon, Pirate Ship, and Delfino Plaza. The Battlefield in Brawl looked much better than those stages, too.

Nah, the graphical difference was minimal then, because the Wii was hardly stronger graphically than the GameCube. It was like a half a generation gap.

The gap between the Wii to the Wii U is pretty much two generations worth of graphical, processing, and memory enhancements and advancements.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

If it's okay to drop in here, with characters being revealed potentially multiple times per month, 2 the max so far aside from the Reveal Trailers at E3, do you guys think that the whole roster will be revealed before the game releases? Will the game be released sooner than expectations (not to assume anyone is assuming anything other than a release date of Next year)?

How many New comers do you guys think there will be? Do you think they'll balance out the number of veterans, or at least be close, or do you guys think that there will be fewer new slots than the previous entries of the Smash Bros. series?

1. No
2. No
3. um 12-15max
4. Yep, balance is important
5. Lower newcomers than brawl? probably.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Toad and Bowser Jr are the last important (yet unplayable in Smash) characters of one of the three main Nintendo franchises (Pokemon, Zelda, Mario) that everyone knows.

Half of those characters you listed mean nothing in comparison to the legacy that Toad has let alone a great slew of them are from other series and would not ''take his spot" as being a unique character.

Calm thy hate boner for Toad.

 

[Johnknight1]

We get it you don't like Toad, so you would prefer all his unique potential be given to someone else already in game or hell someone else like say Waluigi who frankly should never get in over or before Toad as he's completely irrelevant to Mario outside of sports and spin-off titles.

I don't care about whether or not a character is "irrelevant" or not.

I just want the best damn playable characters that are fun to play as, and who stands out in a roster of stand outs, and who has a unique playstyle, moveset, and skillset.

If Toad is the best at that, then add Toad. If freaking Tingle is the best at that, then add Tingle. I don't care. I'm not a fanboy, I'm a Smash Bros game PLAYER!!!

Toad and Bowser Jr are the last important (yet unplayable in Smash) characters of one of the three main Nintendo franchises (Pokemon, Zelda, Mario) that everyone knows.

Who cares about legacy=??? In Smash we play as CHARACTERS, not THE CHARACTERS' LEGACY!!!!

 

[FlareHabanero]

So, question.

Me hating Chrom vs. John hating Toad.

Which is "better"?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

And Toad is a character.

Sometimes John you make not a damn lick of sense and read into things that just are not there.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

So, question.

Me hating Chrom vs. John hating Toad.

Which is "better"?

Oh you hating corn by FAR (cuz i hate corn too)

sorry john.

 

[DeadlyAllianceLeader]

When do you guys think we'll get out next glimpse of Gameplay footage for the titles? It seems that alot of stuff they've announced so far may or may not be ready, as said in Miiverse quotes about Peach as an example... but do you think it will be soon? DEFINETLY when there's a Newcomer to be accompanied by a CGI and Showcase Trailer as said before

 

[Johnknight1]

Sometimes John you make not a damn lick of sense and read into things that just are not there.

You are talking about popularity contests and legacies. I'm talking about gameplay.

What I am saying is characters who play great with no legacy and minimal popularity > characters with tons of popularity and a historic legacy but aren't great to play as (in terms of qualifications as playable characters in smash).

Basically, Shulk > Toad.

Me hating Chrom vs. John hating Toad.
Which is "better"?

I actually like Toad, and wish Toad had a unique enough move pool for me to say that it would be great to play as Toad, but I just can't lie like that, and I always put gameplay first and last in all of my character analysis, as should everyone else.

Also, your hate of Chrom is worse Habby Wabby Xenny Blanny.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Toad and Bowser Jr are the last important (yet unplayable in Smash) characters of one of the three main Nintendo franchises (Pokemon, Zelda, Mario) that everyone knows.

Half of those characters you listed mean nothing in comparison to the legacy that Toad has let alone a great slew of them are from other series and would not ''take his spot" as being a unique character.

Calm thy hate boner for Toad.

Just ignore it. The argument has been irrelevant before and still doesn't work.

Of course Toad's legacy 100% matters. That's why he is still part of a character since Melee. He and Bowser Jr. are the most important non-playable Mario characters thusfar. Bar none. None of those other Mario characters hold a candle to these two.

And a character's legacy and notability plays a huge role in the end. I'd rather play as Toad than a Goomba, namely because it's Toad.

I always put gameplay first and last in all of my character analysis, as should everyone else.

No, we should not do as you say here. At all. Get out of your dictator corner and stop trying to act like we aren't allowed to have our own thoughts on how the character choices should work. You're being extremely disruptive to people's ideas, and knocking down things to the point of acting like a troll over nothing. You are using a very illogical way. Gameplay-wise, we both damn know Toad can be unique from the rest of playable cast of SSB.(not Mario, SSB is not a Mario game here. The Parties just frankly count) What you're saying never made sense, and citing non-playable SSB characters as if they matter doesn't make sense.

Sakurai's only reason we ever found for not putting Toad in, and this is paraphrased is, "He's not violent enough." Uniqueness was never a damn issue. And never will be. And Toad can be quite violent... considering the shows, spin-off games(not made by Nintendo), Parties, Karts, and even the damn Kart Fighter.

 

[Johnknight1]

Of course Toad's legacy 100% matters. That's why he is still part of a character since Melee.

Gameplay is the most important factor. We play these games, not play these legacies.

Sure, we'll only play as "important" characters, but of those, we got a big enough crop the separate the amazing from the great in terms of how great said characters can be as PLAYABLE CHARACTERS.

Also, you are right about one thing. That "Legacy" thing does applies to NPC's, although that is not even close to what I am talking about. It's kind of ironic, because you're here talking legacies, and I'm talking about playable characters that you got the subject I am focused on mixed up.

He and Bowser Jr. are the most important non-playable Mario characters thusfar. Bar none. None of those other Mario characters hold a candle to these two.

Umm... Paper Mario=??? You know, the guy with 4 games of his own=???

 

[Tree Gelbman]

It's telling because the same argument that John is using for Toad, can be used for Peach as well and she's twice as important to Nintendo and Mario as he is.

If you boil her down to her simplest form you could just as easily pull the ''She's just a Princess who gets kidnapped all the time what unique does she have to offer?"

And she's arguable one of the most unique fighters in the roster if certainly not the most unique Mario rep.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Habby Wabby Xenny Blanny.

S-stop that John...

 

[Johnknight1]

"THIS GAME IS NOT OPTIMIZED AT 4320p AND 240FPS HOLY **** NINTENDO IS DOOMED HAHA TAKE THAT DRONES PC MASTER RACE WINS AGAIN."

I have no idea what you said, and yet, I understand what you mean.

S-stop that John...

Fine Xenoblazicutie.

 

[Croph]

So, question.

Me hating Chrom vs. John hating Toad.

Which is "better"?

Omg, trick question. I'd say all of the above.

Question:

Me obsessing over Roy or me obsessing over Lucas.

Which is worse?

I honestly have no idea what's going on

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Umm... Paper Mario=??? You know, the guy with 4 games of his own=???

And he can't get in alongside Toad and Bowser Jr. because?

No, I don't find him needed either. He's just literally Mario from a different series. Doctor Mario had a legitimate reason to get in, because of being a clone(and for the music). Paper Mario isn't the only one who could rep the RPG series. Fawful, Geno, and Cackletta come to mind. Obviously Geno would be a little too difficult, but that's beside the point.

As for him being more key than Toad? Not in the regular Mario (overall, that is, not RPG or games on other systems like the CD-i or PC) series. I'd take Toad over "Mario again". I would easily take Toad over Dr. Mario. Why? Because he's an entirely new playable person and he matters as well.

Toad and Bowser Jr. > Paper Mario any time of the day for me. You'll find some other people think this too.

So, question.

Me hating Chrom vs. John hating Toad.


Which is "better"?

Yours. Easily. People don't want Chrom to replace already favored earlier FE characters like Roy, Ike, and Marth.(yes, I've heard people okay with any of them leaving. ) The problem is the slot argument. Toad doesn't have a slot argument here. There's no rationality behind him not getting in so far seen. Uniquness is just not an issue. The only reason Toad wasn't in so far is that he's not violent enough. That's... it.(and that's all we know. If Sakurai had another reason, he failed to say it)

 

[Tree Gelbman]

All of the popular Mario reps that are left: Toad, Waluigi, Geno, Bowser Jr, Fawful, Paper Mario they could all get into the damn game and they'd all be unique in their own ways.

Honestly it's not even hard to think of the ways that Toad would be different from every single one of them and vice versa.

 

[Starphoenix]

Nah, the graphical difference was minimal then, because the Wii was hardly stronger graphically than the GameCube. It was like a half a generation gap.

The gap between the Wii to the Wii U is pretty much two generations worth of graphical, processing, and memory enhancements and advancements.

The stages I listed definitely have the same problems as the stages you mentioned, especially Frigate Orpheon -- probably the worst culprit of them all. The distinction between stages from Wii titles in this new game and Gamecube titles with Brawl may seem more pronounce; but they are not, really. The Animal Crossing stage looks absolutely gorgeous, and that is using assets from City Folk. Keep in mind that we only have a small sample of stages right now.

Here, watch this and feel better:

http://youtu.be/Yn-oemgzlEU

 

[FlareHabanero]

Question:

Me obsessing over Roy or me obsessing over Lucas.

Which is worse?

Roy.

But he's Fastblade's boy.

 

[Johnknight1]

It's telling because the same argument that John is using for Toad, can be used for Peach as well and she's twice as important to Nintendo and Mario as he is.

Thank you for FINALLY saying what I wanted you to say!!!

This is the difference between a character who either has a pre-set bunch of potential moves, skills, and style and an "empty slate."

And that is where I wanted to go with this.

Toad's most "unique" asset is that he could easily be a blank slate kind of character. However, the problem wherein with that lies in that there are other, more "suitable" parties that could "take it further" than Toad, unless of course Sakurai has some very specific Toad-centric ideas in mind.

Which again, along with Toad being a "late addition clone," are Toad's two only viable odds at being a playable character this time around... at least in my opinion.

And he can't get in alongside Toad and Bowser Jr. because?

Iunno, I just find it funny everyone (myself included) often overlooks Paper Mario! I blame Sticker Star.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Every character is a blank slate really when you look at them at the way you look at Toad. <_<

There are things Toad can do that Waluigi can't, Isaac can't, etc, etc. It's been proven to you countless times, you just simply refuse to see it.

It reminds me of that cutaway from Family Guy....

 

[ZeldaMaster]

My most wanted Mario newcomer is Paper Mario. Although Bowser Jr. is more requested, Paper Mario is still more favorable than Toad.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

]Toad's most "unique" asset is that he could easily be a blank slate kind of character. However, the problem wherein with that lies in that there are other, more "suitable" parties that could "take it further" than Toad, unless of course Sakurai has some very specific Toad-centric ideas in mind.

Besides Mii? Not really. BTW, you did kind of miss the point of what they were saying.

Which again, along with Toad being a "late addition clone," are Toad's two only viable odds at being a playable character this time around... at least in my opinion.

I keep hearing notes where Sakurai hates Toad, so... then again, I think that was in an interview between Miyamoto and Sakurai. This could be why Toad never got in.(Toadsworth is actual Peach's bodyguard now and would make more sense as a move) Falcon is also his favorite, and his take on F-Zero is unknown. Perhaps he doesn't like F-Zero as a whole? Who knows.

Iunno, I just find it funny everyone (myself included) often overlooks Paper Mario! I blame Sticker Star.

I find Toad a lot more key for various reasons. All Paper can do is rep the RPG's. Where as there's other characters from the RPG's that are plausible. Isn't Bowser Jr. in there too? And Kammy? And Kamek? My problem is that he's still Mario. He still looks like Mario, save being flat as a paper. Otherwise, they're pretty identical in design. Even the Doc had more going from him characterization-wise. He was a freakin' doctor. Not just another variation on the hero.

Paper Mario isn't bad, and I found Sticker Star a very fun game, but I would rather have some somewhat more unique characters. I think in both moveset and character, to note. Hell, Doc is arguably not the real Mario. And while I know that Metal Mario and Mario also have been playable separately in more than one game(SSB64 through codes, Mario Kart 7, and Mario Golf), Paper Mario is treated as the only true Mario among the Paper Mario series. Minus the Dark Clones in Super Paper Mario. Okay, maybe I just prefer to have the choice of a non-Mario-named Mario character(if you will on that term) first.

Paper's cool and all, but I think we can do better than that. Having a Hammer isn't beyond unique when we have more than one Hammer user. That's... his key difference between the regular Mario gameplay-wise, besides a few TTYD moves, maybe. Like his Plane form, etc. I have no doubt he could be unique, though.

You'll notice that while I'd like Dr. Mario back too, my thoughts were always on newer characters first. While I would argue Doctor Mario is still important to the SSB series proper, I don't think he had to be playable before new guys. I'd argue if we got nobody new Mario-wise(Mushroom symbol), he could finally come back, but I wouldn't call it likely. That almost did happen in Brawl, though. As we know.