Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Gargaglione]

Not even close to the same bub. Paper Mario plays differently, has a different feel, and (at least in the first two and vastly superior two games) is mostly focused on Mario, to where he only has one ally out at the time.

In Super Mario RPG, you get multiple allies out along with Mario, and Geno's and Mallow's quests take precedent over Mario's quest in the story.

Plus the gameplay is pretty different. Heck, Mario & Luigi might be closer to Super Mario RPG than Paper Mario, especially the ba***rdized version of Paper Mario we got in Stupid Star.

I know, I was half joking.
I thought it was funny because Paper Mario was originally planned to be SMRPG2, then was changed to what it is.
The reason it's a half joke though is because I'm glad it came out to be Paper Mario, which is arguably more interesting than just a direct sequel to SMRPG.

 

[LiteralGrill]

HugS made the topic. That is all.

That's a terrible debate point

 

[IsmaR]

I wouldn't call it much of a debate considering it's true.

 

[LiteralGrill]

I wouldn't call it much of a debate considering it's true.

That's not really true at all o.o

 

[Johnknight1]

Needs more DKC1 Fear Factory

I got that on Project M: Rumble Falls, and that song is fantastic to fight to.

On that same stage I also have a rock/metal versions of Gangplank Galleon (DKC1 Final Boss theme), Crocodile Cacophony (DKC2 Final Boss theme), the K. Rool Boxing Match Theme (DK64 Final Boss Theme), the original Stickerbrush Symphony, and Aquatic Ambiance.

On Cong Jungle 64, I also have Dance of the Zinger and Simian Segue (the DKC opening theme), on Jungle Japes I have Sunset Shore, and on the SSE Jungle stage I have Forrest Interlude (DKC2), Treetop Tumble (DKC3), and the Hideout Helm theme (DK64).

Also, the original Fear Factory theme > the DKCR remake. I tried them both in Project M, and they weren't even in the same league.

I didn't like sticker brush symphony in Brawl

DKC2 definitely needs some love this time around. I was utterly disappointed that the only thing it got in Brawl was an okay remix of Stickerbrush Symphony.

I thought the Stickerbrush Symphony remix was AMAZING!!! Granted, a more traditional remix would go great alongside it, but it was fit the stage really well IMO.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Missed a DKC music discussion again? ****!

Speaking of Stickerbrush Symphony, the remix was good in Brawl. And I'm quite happy it got a remix, even though the original is better. In general, I don't really like remixes. Wether it's videogame music or regular music.

 

[Bowserlick]

Just change the grab into a push command if used after a grab. Instead of trying to grab a character, the player will take a step forward and push with his or her arms/vines. If the push connects, the opponent is launched horizontally and the pushing player lags a little to recoup their balance. A keep away move.

*Throws are exciting when they setup combos using other moves then the same throw over and over and over...

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

That's not really true at all o.o

I agree with the OP of that thread. But he forgot 2 VERY important rules:...

Fox Only, Final Destination

 

[Johnknight1]

I know, I was half joking.
I thought it was funny because Paper Mario was originally planned to be SMRPG2, then was changed to what it is.
The reason it's a half joke though is because I'm glad it came out to be Paper Mario, which is arguably more interesting than just a direct sequel to SMRPG.

I'd take Super Mario RPG 2 over the current garbage disposal version of Paper Mario we'd get now.

Plus, having more variety is good. Could you imagine how awesome it would be to get Mario & Luigi, Paper Mario, and Super Mario RPG as continuing franchises=??? They are all fairly different, and quite frankly there is room for all 3 of them. After all, we got tons of continuing Mario platformer franchises like NEW Super Mario Bros (way overrated IMO), standard 3D Mario platformers, standard 2D Mario platformers, Yoshi's Island, and of course Mario 3D Land/World.

 

[LiteralGrill]

I agree with the OP of that thread. But he forgot 2 VERY important rules:...

Fox Only, Final Destination

Well, if you really DID agree and were willing to back up why you'd be doing a great service compared to many in the thread -.-

 

[Big-Cat]

Just change the grab into a push command if used after a grab. Instead of trying to grab a character, the player will take a step forward and push with his or her arms/vines. If the push connects, the opponent is launched horizontally and the pushing player lags a little to recoup their balance. A keep away move.

*Throws are exciting when they setup combos using other moves then the same throw over and over and over...

I don't know. Depending on the character's design, that might just be redundant, and who's to say that the push can't loop itself at low percents?

 

[Johnknight1]

As I've said before, and I know you're not a fan of it, but throw breaks would make the chain grab issue irrelevant. Also fixing up other properties like only being able to do throws on grounded opponents would fix a lot.

I think (reasonable) chain grabs should stay, but there should be a mechanic preventing early chain grab horizontal kills on walk off stages IMO. Maybe like a barrier of some sort.

I don't see what's the big deal with horizontal combos. I see them as an important part of a fighting game. If anything should be done, they should look into gravity scaling like how Tekken and Guilty Gear go about it. At least this way, horizontal combos won't be subject to wall carrying infinites.

Inescapable early horizontal combos could be bad. I mean, let's say that Marth gets his forward air combos back, but they send people more sideways at the tipper (where it was inescapable once you got caught). If people spaced it right and used the tipper right, that could potentially kill.

I think stuff like that will be in the game, and I think it will inevitably lead to at least considering banning a few walk-off stages if walk-off stages aren't all banned already.

 

[Big-Cat]

Again, gravity scaling could remedy some of those flaws with horizontal combos. The longer they're in the air, the quicker they fall if they're in hitstun. With Marth's FAir, he'd only be able to do it a handful of times before the opponent can tech to safety.

IMO, chain grabs should simply be very good reads, nothing fixed.

 

[Johnknight1]

I agree with the OP of that thread. But he forgot 2 VERY important rules:...

Fox Only, Final Destination

Overused meme is overused...

...especially when Fox might not even be the top tier in a few years. Falco is creeping up on him, and really, we're just finally realizing Young Link, Pikachu, Luigi, and Yoshi are good. Melee's got like creepy good balance at the top, which is why the Top 8 in Evo used 9 characters in the Top 8 Finals.

Meanwhile in Brawl... Meta Knight vs. Meta Knight... vs. an occasionally Snake, Olimar, Ice Climbers, Diddy Kong, or Falco.

Also, HugS is dead on right. I'll take a guy who has played competitive smash forever's opinions over the random scrubs here's opinion who have no clue what they are even talking about, or don't even play real competitive smash at tournaments and smashfests.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Overused meme is overused...

...especially when Fox might not even be the top tier in a few years. Falco is creeping up on him, and really, we're just finally realizing Young Link, Pikachu, Luigi, and Yoshi are good. Melee's got like creepy good balance at the top, which is why the Top 8 in Evo used 9 characters in the Top 8 Finals.

Meanwhile in Brawl... Meta Knight vs. Meta Knight... vs. an occasionally Snake, Olimar, Ice Climbers, Diddy Kong, or Falco.

Also, HugS is dead on right. I'll take a guy who has played competitive smash forever's opinions over the random scrubs here's opinion who have no clue what they are even talking about, or don't even play real competitive smash at tournaments and smashfests.

What about Overswarm? He's in that thread. And ad hominem shouldn't be a reason for support.

 

[Johnknight1]

What about Overswarm? He's in that thread. And ad hominem shouldn't be a reason for support.

Again, I'll take people who know their crap and who are actually COMPETITIVE over the random scrubs that don't play competitively.

Now allow me top counter your TV Tropes vocab with real English.

And yes, reasoning, experience, and knowledge (and support people with those) should be a reason for support.

You don't see people clamoring to vote in a young teen with no political experience as a President, and yet, some of the idiots here are listening to young teens with no competitive experience over the likes of HugS, Mew2King, and others.

In the competitive realm of smash, only competitive players' opinions matter. The same goes with elections: in America's elections, only the American's votes matter.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Again, I'll take people who know their crap and who are actually COMPETITIVE over the random scrubs that don't play competitively.

Now allow me top counter your TV Tropes vocab with real English.

And yes, reasoning should be a reason for support.

You don't see people clamoring to vote in a young teen with no political experience as a President, and yet, some of the idiots here are listening to young teens with no competitive experience over the likes of HugS, Mew2King, and others.

In the competitive realm of smash, only competitive players' opinions matter. The same goes with elections: in America's elections, only the American's votes matter.

Are you saying Overswarm isn't actually competitive and is a random scrub who doesn't play competitively? If so, you have NO idea what you are talking about.

Yeah, there are some randoms in that thread, there are also people with tons of experience too on either side. Thanks for calling them random uncompetittive scrubs, want me to send over some more names to you to look at, or maybe send your name their way? I have a feeling you'll see serious credentials.

 

[Johnknight1]

Crocodile Island 2D please. Oh please. OH GOD, DEAR JESUS, DEAR MUHAMMED, DEAR BUDDHA, DEAR VISHNU, DEAR MOTER MARY, PLEASE GRANT ME THIS!

You forgot Dear Tom Cruise and Dear Oprah Winfrey.

Not Paula Abdul, Paula Deen the cook. The woman in the video

...I was joking dood...

 

[Fastblade5035]

Oh yay, competitive talk again.
I'll be back soon, going to Zelda Universe until this ends.

 

[Bowserlick]

I don't know. Depending on the character's design, that might just be redundant, and who's to say that the push can't loop itself at low percents?

Because the push is designed to eliminate throw infinites, make the character who is doing the pushing lag a bit. And make the knockback on the pushed character fairly decent, but with a cap on the maximum push distance.

 

[Big-Cat]

Point taken, but I'm still not a fan of it. If the idea is to not have the person followup with yet another grab, why not do something more subtle like the inability to grab hitstunned characters?

 

[Johnknight1]

I wonder if you can hit characters into the plane propeller and get a splatter effect like from Raiders of the Lost Ark with the big, bald Nazi.

...and this Pilot Wings/Wii Sports Resort/Wuhu Island/whatever stage now needs Raiders of the Lost Ark and Indiana Jones music badly.

 

[Diddy Kong]

A grab should be cancable into a jab.

 

[Johnknight1]

Are you saying Overswarm isn't actually competitive and is a random scrub who doesn't play competitively? If so, you have NO idea what you are talking about.

Yeah, there are some randoms in that thread, there are also people with tons of experience too on either side. Thanks for calling them random uncompetittive scrubs, want me to send over some more names to you to look at, or maybe send your name their way? I have a feeling you'll see serious credentials.

I didn't call anyone in specific a random scrub, so to assume I meant this guy or that guy is stretching it.

I'm just saying most of the people chiming in against HugS are really ill-informed or have little if any competitive experience, and probably not to intelligent, just like most of the people here in the Smash Wii U and 3DS boards. Heck, their ignorance on the matter generally tops the character discussion level of ignorance, much of it thanks to random zealots who fancy themselves a savior of sorts (see: SmashChu, Noah, scythe, etc).

 

[Bowserlick]

Point taken, but I'm still not a fan of it. If the idea is to not have the person followup with yet another grab, why not do something more subtle like the inability to grab hitstunned characters?

It might just look confusing. Players may not understand why their grab is not working. A push can be a visual answer to this.

 

[Johnknight1]

I wonder what kind of Wario stage we'll get...

Please not another terribly fast moving Wario Ware stage.

Also, we could actually use a Wario Land stage. Heck, let's only have Wario Land stages.

 

[LiteralGrill]

I didn't call anyone in specific a random scrub, so to assume I meant this guy or that guy is stretching it.

I'm just saying most of the people chiming in against HugS are really ill-informed or have little if any competitive experience, and probably not to intelligent, just like most of the people here in the Smash Wii U and 3DS boards. Heck, their ignorance on the matter generally tops the character discussion level of ignorance, much of it thanks to random zealots who fancy themselves a savior of sorts (see: SmashChu, Noah, scythe, etc).

I mentioned Overswarm specifically in the post you were quoting, but let's go through a bunch of people in that thread arguing against HugS you should know. Overswarm, Amazing Ampharos, and Jack Kieser are three great examples to start with.

Also, tons of randoms supporting HugS too, funny thing is most wont even respond or back up WHY they are while the other side is. No arguments for one side in normal discourse generally would say that side is wrong.

 

[Big-Cat]

It might just look confusing. Players may not understand why their grab is not working. A push can be a visual answer to this.

Players aren't that stupid though. They'll just figure that they can't grab an airborne opponent. If all else fails, explain in a tutorial that it doesn't work that way.

 

[vicgur]

My (painstakingly chosen) picks would be:

Stickerbrush Symphony
Mining Melancholy
Jib Jig
Hot Head Bop
Forest Interlude
Disco Train
Crocodile Cacophony
Welcome to Crocodile Isle
Lockjaw's Saga
Flight of the Zinger
Snakey Chantey

Edit: I couldn't leave Snakey Chantey off the list. I just couldn't do it! 11 is fine, right?

Where's Haunted Chase?

 

[Bowserlick]

Not grabbing an airborne opponent is another solution. Smash though does seem to take pride in stage and character interaction. Pushing could add a mechanic to the game just as gliding, crouching, footstool jumping, wall jumping, wall clinging, swimming, ect added more interaction to the game. But your solution is quicker and less intensive. Might be the way to go. Removing infinite throwing would just free up the game in my opinion.

 

[Johnknight1]

Jack is an idiot, and quite honestly, it's a Brawl vs. Melee thread, which is why the Brawl people look stupid... again.

It's just a fact Brawlies aren't as smart. They aren't as technical, strategic, or even analytically as Melee or Smash 64 players, and they are lacking in the knowledge and experience department because most of them have played competitively for 2-4 years, versus like 8 years. And if we want to get real freaking serious, Brawl is a dying competitive game, whereas Melee is a thriving one.

On a national level you need to have the reverse Brawl method; instead of starting with a bunch of stupid stages legal, let's ban all of the question marks.

Anyone who was here for Brawl's early stage legality crap knows that HugS is right. That literally killed 2 years, and morons arguing for stages like Skyworld, Mario Bros, and Rumble Falls who don't play the game competitively honestly are a huge reason why Brawl never took off competitively the way it could have (along with the game being boring competitively, Meta Knight being broken, and tons of bad balancing).

 

[Diddy Kong]

No more chain throws would be amazing.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Jack is an idiot, and quite honestly, it's a Brawl vs. Melee thread, which is why the Brawl people look stupid... again.

It's just a fact Brawlies aren't as smart. They aren't as technical, strategic, or even analytically as Melee or Smash 64 players, and they are lacking in the knowledge and experience department because most of them have played competitively for 2-4 years, versus like 8 years. And if we want to get real freaking serious, Brawl is a dying competitive game, whereas Melee is a thriving one.

On a national level you need to have the reverse Brawl method; instead of starting with a bunch of stupid stages legal, let's ban all of the question marks.

Anyone who was here for Brawl's early stage legality crap knows that HugS is right. That literally killed 2 years, and morons arguing for stages like Skyworld, Mario Bros, and Rumble Falls who don't play the game competitively honestly are a huge reason why Brawl never took off competitively the way it could have (along with the game being boring competitively, Meta Knight being broken, and tons of bad balancing).

Well, the game isn't truly boring, a lot of Melee players just didn't like the changes (mainly the speed and playstyle) while others still found it enjoyable or even preferred it to Melee.

I understand the rest though.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Jack is an idiot, and quite honestly, it's a Brawl vs. Melee thread, which is why the Brawl people look stupid... again.

It's just a fact Brawlies aren't as smart. They aren't as technical, strategic, or even analytically as Melee or Smash 64 players, and they are lacking in the knowledge and experience department because most of them have played competitively for 2-4 years, versus like 8 years. And if we want to get real freaking serious, Brawl is a dying competitive game, whereas Melee is a thriving one.

On a national level you need to have the reverse Brawl method; instead of starting with a bunch of stupid stages legal, let's ban all of the question marks.

Anyone who was here for Brawl's early stage legality crap knows that HugS is right. That literally killed 2 years, and morons arguing for stages like Skyworld, Mario Bros, and Rumble Falls who don't play the game competitively honestly are a huge reason why Brawl never took off competitively the way it could have (along with the game being boring competitively, Meta Knight being broken, and tons of bad balancing).

You're an idiot, so I don't have to listen to you. People who play Melee aren't as smart. They lack the mental capacity to deal with a game that takes lots of psychological focus, and can't even adapt to different physics. They can't and have never analysed stages as much as Brawl players have and lack experience doing so. And if we want to get real freaking serious, Brawl streams and tournaments tend to still have strong turnouts and viewers in streams just like Melee.

On a national level, you need to use the Brawl method instead of cutting out parts of the game without real knowledge of them possibly stripping the game of depth, strategy, and removing something that never should have been banned. Do not ban until game breaking.

Anyone who was here for Brawl's early stage legality discussion knows some mistakes were made at first, but far more were made later when decisions were made not based on data and sound fact, and one side of an argument never showed proof for what they said on many stages or even MK being banned or not, and ignored all data to the contrary. They may have crippled the entire game's competitive capabilities from the start resulting in the problems we have today. Sure, some stages were questionably legal for a while, but now there is clear evidence as to why so they aren't as disputed in the future.

Look, I can do what you do too. Want to really debate or do this all day? I'm willing to sling mud till the end of time, but it's not a real argument, it's a waste of time, and I prefer not to use bad points ESPECIALLY AD HOMINEM AGAIN on top of psychologist's fallacy to discuss things.

 

[Baskerville]

. . . . . . . . . . . .
Well, I'm out.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

. . . . . . . . . . . .
Well, I'm out.

Hey! Wait up, I'm not sticking around for any arguments like this either!

 

[Fatmanonice]

Girls, girls; you're both pretty, can we please not turn this into a pissing contest like virtually EVERY OTHER Brawl vs Melee discussion?

Add in: If anything, one of the things I look forward to with SSB4 is how it will largely bring an end to this or at least severely limit them.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Girls, girls; you're both pretty, can we please not turn this into a pissing contest like virtually EVERY OTHER Brawl vs Melee discussion?

I didn't even try to bring it there, funny how "Melee is better" now is involved in stage legality discussion for other games. Maybe there IS a problem.

 

[Metal Overlord]

And people say Pokemon discussions are bad

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Girls, girls; you're both pretty, can we please not turn this into a pissing contest like virtually EVERY OTHER Brawl vs Melee discussion?

Add in: If anything, one of the things I look forward to with SSB4 is how it will largely bring an end to this or at least severely limit them.

I know, right?

I just hope SSB4 vs SSB4 3DS doesn't become a thing...