Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Curmudgeon]

Where was that confirmed at? I don't see it on serebii.

Pokejungle's translation of the scans

 

[SteelerD24]

Jigglypuff was apparently higher priority than Mewtwo, otherwise Jiggly would've been dropped in Brawl.

Sakurai is also trying to cut as few characters as possible in order to please fanbases of characters in Brawl.

well at the time Mewtwo didnt have a new movie out for him, which he does now. He obviously will be more prioritized this time, not to mention his insane popularity.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

All we can do at this point is have our fingers crossed for the Ice Climbers.

Well, Olimar got in, so I think they will too now. Of course, the models are clearly smaller, but that shouldn't matter, now should it?

 

[Salty the SLUG]

Well, Olimar got in, so I think they will too now. Of course, the models are clearly smaller, but that shouldn't matter, now should it?

Yeah, but there may be an AI-Pathing issue with the Ice Climbers on the 3DS that created the problems. If they were to be confirmed in the next Nintendo Direct, this would please a lot of fans.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

well at the time Mewtwo didnt have a new movie out for him, which he does now. He obviously will be more prioritized this time, not to mention his insane popularity.

Mewtwo may not have had a movie, but the last time Jigglypuff had appeared in the anime was the early episodes of Advanced Battle. Mewtwo had definitely surpassed Jigglypuff in popularity by that point, since Jigglypuff hadn't appeared in a while, but Jigglypuff still held higher priority.

 

[Frostwraith]

So, Mewtwo's new form is just one of those new Megaforms... Lucario is also among the Pokémon with a Megaform.

If the information that those forms are temporary and wear off when a battle is over is true, we could have source material for Mewtwo's Final Smash and a possible new Final Smash for Lucario. With Jigglypuff being Fairy-type now, we have three veteran characters that could be reworked with new moves and new abilities just like how Bowser and Pit were also revamped for this game.

I must say, things have gotten more interesting with these reveals...

 

[N3ON]

The arguement is magnemite or marill getting into smash, the point is to discredit Jiggly's supposed "relevance". That's all. I don't agree with Jiggly's typing making her more relevant and I really think it's a difference in opinion. She hasnt been shown in anything other then paired with 3 other pokemon as examples of old pokemon getting new typing. Sakurai says he chooses pokemon based on the anime/movies, and Jigglypuff is not in them.

And Jigglypuff hasn't been in them since long before Brawl, yet she still made it in, and now she only has more in her favour (you might not agree that new typing matters towards chances, but when an existing veteran has the chance to bring something new that Game Freak is pushing hard this time around, it does increase Jigglypuff's overall relevance, which was the main factor Jiggs was previously struggling with in the first place).

It's just a fundamental disagreement between the two of us. You think original 12 status gurantees her stay, I do not. I don't believe the fairy typing makes her more relevant, you do. As for the falco ganondorf thing, that's just because sakurai had a ton of extra development time so he added clones in melee. Falco and Ganon at the time of brawl were more important to their respective franchises.

I never said being part of the original twelve guarantees safety, obviously Jiggs in Brawl should prove it doesn't. I said being a mainstay in Smash helps increase chances of returning, which it does.

My point with Falco and Ganondorf was just that priority shifts between games, they weren't implemented above Mewtwo due to importance in their franchises, it was due to popularity, or else Mewtwo would've made it back before Jigglypuff (as Mewtwo clearly is more important in his series than Jiggs is, yet Jiggs was prioritized higher). If Mewtwo had Falco's popularity in Melee, and Falco had Mewtwo's, you can bet it would have been the other way around for returning in Brawl.

 

[SteelerD24]

You can't be serious... Jiggly is small, pink, flies around, and makes high-pitched noises. Know what a Fairy is? It's a small humanoid classified for being small, wearing pink clothes, flies around, and makes high pitched noises. Didn't rep steel? Lucario is part Steel type! Lucario basically had his own movie too! Back to the fairy thing, there are two reasons Jiggly has priority over "Sylveon". 1. Jiggly has a Smash-fan base and people know how to use her, 2. Jiggly already appears in the series; why spend a long time trying to think of a move-pool, and animations for Sylveon when Jiggly is already existent. You can't be serious.

You are misinterpreting my points. At no point did I say Sylveon is more likely then Jiggly. Lucario wasn't a steel type rep for second gen, because melee came out before that. If Sakurai was choosing reps based on new types, he would've added them in Melee. Lucario was chosen in brawl because of his movie, had nothing to do with his type. My point here is that "Jigglypuff being fairy" will not get her into smash4. If Jigglypuff gets in it's because she's a veteran and that's the only reason.

 

[Pyra]

This new Pokemon information is interesting. Good interesting.
MegaLucario looks kickass.

 

[Big-Cat]

Don't forget Olimar's size increase and possible lower Pikmin limit.

 

[Pyra]

Don't forget Olimar's size increase and possible lower Pikmin limit.

But they don't have mega forms like Lucario so Lucario is higher tier now and Olimar suddenly doesn't matter.

 

[Salty the SLUG]

Don't forget Olimar's size increase and possible lower Pikmin limit.

The fact alone that he could have less Pikmin would definitely decrease where he stands on the "Competitive listings", sadly.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, but there may be an AI-Pathing issue with the Ice Climbers on the 3DS that created the problems. If they were to be confirmed in the next Nintendo Direct, this would please a lot of fans.

Agreed.

I don't ultimately care if PT returns or not, but Ice Climbers matter far more as they rep their own franchise.

 

[Salty the SLUG]

Agreed.

I don't ultimately care if PT returns or not, but Ice Climbers matter far more as they rep their own franchise.

As well as a rep from Nintendo's 8-bit era.

100-th message!

 

[LiteralGrill]

He generally brings back an old rep every game now too, and they don't seem to get cut. In a thread in the 3DS forums we proved the 3DS could handle the Ice Climbers. So don't talk about that much

 

[SteelerD24]

And Jigglypuff hasn't been in them since long before Brawl, yet she still made it in, and now she only has more in her favour (you might not agree that new typing matters towards chances, but when an existing veteran has the chance to bring something new that Game Freak is pushing hard this time around, it does increase Jigglypuff's overall relevance, which was the main factor Jiggs was previously struggling with in the first place).


I never said being part of the original twelve guarantees safety, obviously Jiggs in Brawl should prove it doesn't. I said being a mainstay in Smash helps increase chances of returning, which it does.

My point with Falco and Ganondorf was just that priority shifts between games, they weren't implemented above Mewtwo due to importance in their franchises, it was due to popularity, or else Mewtwo would've made it back before Jigglypuff (as Mewtwo clearly is more important in his series than Jiggs is, yet Jiggs was prioritized higher). If Mewtwo had Falco's popularity in Melee, and Falco had Mewtwo's, you can bet it would have been the other way around for returning in Brawl.

Well obviously Jiggly has a chance, I never said it's a 0% chance. I dislike replacement arguments so i'm not suggesting she gets replaced. My point here is Jiggs will be low priority just like she was in brawl, and her new fairy typing does not make her any higher priority. The point is more pokemon becoming more relevant than her thus getting passed up in priority. We surely agree that Pokemon trainer, Pikachu, Lucario and Mewtwo are all going to be higher priority this time around right? That's already 6 Pokemon characters as it is. If you have to cut someone due to time constraints Jigglypuff would be the most likely to go, especially if they included another new pokemon rep like genesect or sylveon. That's the argument i'm making. And I believe at the end of the day he will not get to include Jiggly because of time.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

As well as a rep from Nintendo's 8-bit era.

100-th message!

True.

He generally brings back an old rep every game now too, and they don't seem to get cut. In a thread in the 3DS forums we proved the 3DS could handle the Ice Climbers. So don't talk about that much

But Sakurai hasn't shown it. So while that's right on your angle, that doesn't mean he specifically got it to work. He said he couldn't get them to work at that time. He never said he fixed it, although he probably did, as Olimar has multiple models.

I think we shouldn't ultimately assume it as a fact they're returning. Just they probably are.(which makes sense now)

 

[Moon Monkey]

Update: It's been confirmed that they're only Mega during battle. So they revert back later.

So it's like Super Saiyan form for the Pokemon. Is there any word on how they build up into that state??

 

[Pyra]

So it's like Super Saiyan form for the Pokemon. Is there any word on how they build up into that state??

3 episodes of shouting?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

That's already 6 Pokemon characters as it is. If you have to cut someone due to time constraints Jigglypuff would be the most likely to go, especially if they included another new pokemon rep like genesect or sylveon. That's the argument i'm making. And I believe at the end of the day he will not get to include Jiggly because of time.

That didn't stop Jigglypuff from getting into Brawl over Mewtwo.

 

[SteelerD24]

That didn't stop Jigglypuff from getting into Brawl over Mewtwo.

But Mewtwo is going to be more prioritized this time. I don't know why you keep bringing that up. Jiggly got in over Mewtwo in Brawl. Mewtwo now has a new movie and a new form AND is the most requested character period.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So it's like Super Saiyan form for the Pokemon. Is there any word on how they build up into that state??

No. It's really like Burst Mode during Digimon Savers/Data Squad. Super Saiyans showed up well outside of Battle. This isn't the case for the Digimon show/game.

 

[MargnetMan23]

Wait there's mega evolutions now? *looks at them* ... Mawile 4 smash. OK well whatever if we want to digivolve then fine by me.

 

[Pyra]

That's already 6 Pokemon characters as it is. If you have to cut someone due to time constraints Jigglypuff would be the most likely to go, especially if they included another new pokemon rep like genesect or sylveon. That's the argument i'm making. And I believe at the end of the day he will not get to include Jiggly because of time.

Well Mr. Swagnemite ,
I doubt it. I'd say there would be more of a chance to drop Lucario. I doubt Jigglypuff would get cut at all.

Sakurai's trying to keep as many people in the game as he can, so it would be silly to cut the N64vetrans to make room for another character. I feel confident in saying the least likely Pokemon characters to be cut are Pikachu and Jigglypuff.

 

[Baskerville]

Honestly if there was anyone from Pokemon the only one I can see getting the boot due to that it would be PT. Switching through 3 different characters would make load times a hassle on the 3DS.

 

[Blucario]

Thanks. The only animation I can't put my finger on is this one:

There may be 4 taunts in SSB4.

Maybe it's her crouching animation.

 

[SteelerD24]

Well Mr. Swagnemite ,
I doubt it. I'd say there would be more of a chance to drop Lucario. I doubt Jigglypuff would get cut at all.

Sakurai's trying to keep as many people in the game as he can, so it would be silly to cut the N64vetrans.

Lucario just got a new form and is advertised a lot still. Jiggly chances are at the very least less than Lucario. Yes you're right about him trying to include as many characters as possible but there will still be cuts.

 

[Moon Monkey]

3 episodes of shouting?

I think 3 turns would suffice

 

[Pyra]

Honestly if there was anyone from Pokemon the only one I can see getting the boot due to that it would be PT. Switching through 3 different characters would make load times a hassle on the 3DS.

Well PT is a given, I think. Unless they decide to tweak his gimmick a lot, then he'll probably get cut.

I do think Lucario will be cut if Mewtwo gets in. If.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well PT is a given, I think. Unless they decide to tweak his gimmick a lot, then he'll probably get cut.

I do think Lucario will be cut if Mewtwo gets in. If.

Lucario and Mewtwo aren't anything alike, so... and Lucario doesn't have multiple model problems.

Honestly, let's just have five slots anyway. Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Lucario, Pokemon Trainer(with some changes, like one model on the screen, with the Trainer becoming a portrait that can yell out commands. It's cool that way)

If there's room for a sixth slot, somebody from Gen 5(Mewtwo reps Gen 6 with his/her/its new Forme) or Pichu or Plusle & Minun(or a better Gen III choice).

 

[Salty the SLUG]

Maybe it's her crouching animation.

It could be a taunt.

 

[Pyra]

Lucario and Mewtwo aren't anything alike, so... and Lucario doesn't have multiple model problems.

Who the hell said they're alike? I can only see one of the two "aggressive" Pokemon in the game. If I'm wrong I'll eat my hat.

Lucario just got a new form and is advertised a lot still. Jiggly chances are at the very least less than Lucario. Yes you're right about him trying to include as many characters as possible but there will still be cuts.

So what if he just got a new form? That doesn't suddenly make him magically resistant to being cut instead of Jigglypuff for one of these "Pokemon character slots" everyone seems to worry so much about.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Maybe it's her crouching animation.

That could possibly be the case, or it may even be her crouching idle animation.
You can see her crouching stance after she does her D-tilt.

 

[Johnknight1]

Thanks. The only animation I can't put my finger on is this one:

There may be 4 taunts in SSB4.

It looks like the Wii Fit Trainer's either idle crawling animation or her 4th taunt.

And yeah, 4 taunts seemed pre-destined for this game anyways. I'm still surprised Melee didn't have 2 taunts.

 

[LiteralGrill]

It looks like the Wii Fit Trainer's either idle crawling animation or her 4th taunt.

And yeah, 4 taunts seemed pre-destined for this game anyways. I'm still surprised Melee didn't have 2 taunts.

It kinda did with Pichu and Falcon

 

[Croph]

Wow, I just noticed... but are those blades of grass being blown by wind (near the left and right sides)? O.o Man, these little details are awesome! sorry kinda random lol

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Who the hell said they're alike? I can only see one of the two "aggressive" Pokemon in the game. If I'm wrong I'll eat my hat.

...Pikachu is extremely aggressive in the Anime too, same with Jigglypuff. In fact, only Ivysaur isn't and maybe Pichu too among all the playable ones.

Unless you mean they seem aggressive, then yeah, I get ya. And to be fair, that's the only reason I ever heard that people wouldn't accept Lucario and Mewtwo, because they're "apparently" alike. My bad, man.

I don't see why they can't both be in, though.

@Johnknight1: 4 taunts would mean you can't use the basic Wii Remote as is. It only has the ability to do three taunts max. I doubt Sakurai would get rid of a control style by choice. He had to remove the GameCube controls due to the Wii U not taking them, so...

 

[SteelerD24]

Who the hell said they're alike? I can only see one of the two "aggressive" Pokemon in the game. If I'm wrong I'll eat my hat.


So what if he just got a new form? That doesn't suddenly make him magically resistant to being cut instead of Jigglypuff for one of these "Pokemon character slots" everyone seems to worry so much about.

You're right about him being magically resisted to cuts (something jiggly people should realize too), but you didn't address his advertising and his apperances in the anime. He has a chance of being cut, it's just really small and Jiggly is more likely cut than Lucario. I don't see them cutting 2 pokemon characters either.

 

[Johnknight1]

Serebii just posted the next batch of Corocoro shots and there's new forms to previous Pokemon called "megaforms" and Lucario is one of them. I swear I'm not making this up http://www.serebii.net/index2.shtml.

Spoiler

So a bunch of Pokémon go Super Saiyan=??? Also, I imagine this is what the transformation looks like...

Totally helps that Lucario's voice actor in Brawl basically sounded like a Goku impersonator!!!

 

[FlareHabanero]

Wow, I just noticed... but are those blades of grass being blown by wind (near the left and right sides)? O.o Man, these little details are awesome! sorry kinda random lol

Still doesn't beat the grass porn you'd typically see in Xenoblade.