Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Arcadenik]

Starfy must be in the game, then, if I understand right, John, since the DS was last generation.

Starfy's last game was in 2009... that's only 4 years ago... though it could be 5 years by the time SSB4 finally comes out, assuming it comes out before January 1, 2015.

 

[Johnknight1]

Starfy must be in the game, then, if I understand right, John, since the DS was last generation.

The DS = 1 generation ago = still new-sh.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Starfy's last game was in 2009... that's only 4 years ago... though it could be 5 years by the time SSB4 finally comes out, assuming it comes out before January 1, 2015.

What generation of gaming is it now? Because John said that the GBA was 6th. That's also when Starfy started. Is right now the 7th or 8th?

 

[Johnknight1]

The DS = the 7th generation of gaming (current still, but it is almost over)
The 3DS = the 8th generation of gaming (the current/new generation)

Also, Starfy's games are both on the GBA and DS, so these rules in this theory do not apply to Starfy.

As for Impa, I'll await your counter-arguement, but I'll just point out that I DID see the Evo matches and how Zelda helped M2K's Sheik, but subjecting Zelda to being a recovery option is ****ING LAME, and NOT what a transforming character should be at all, that's not Synergy, that's Zelda being Sheik's *****.

Well then Zelda should stop being a terrible character. That would be a nice change. That is also why I expect Zelda to not be shown for at least 4-6 months.

And yes, there would be more Shelda players. There's a bit in Brawl and a bit in Project M, and they have been effective despite Zelda being relatively weaker in both.

Really, the problem isn't Sheik, it is Zelda.

 

[LiteralGrill]

I once suggested such stages only be banned for Meta Knight, but I guess TO's consider it too complicated. Oh well.

Honestly, it would just be easier and better for the long-term competitiveness of Brawl as a competitive game if Meta Knight was just outright banned.

Well that'd just show even more the stages aren't the problem... >_>

But yeah... I just hope we do things right this time. I have a long essay coming as you know, hope it looks good.

(Or people use LSS already! >_<)

 

[Deleted member]

What generation of gaming is it now? Because John said that the GBA was 6th. That's also when Starfy started. Is right now the 7th or 8th?

WiiU, 3DS, PS4, Xbone, and Vita are all 8th Gen.

 

[Johnknight1]

Well that'd just show even more the stages aren't the problem... >_>

Meta Knight and the campy/stalling-based gameplay with no gimps, few real highlights, or really freshness is the root of every problem with Brawl.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Meta Knight and the campy/stalling-based gameplay with no gimps, few real highlights, or really freshness is the root of every problem with Brawl.

I think a higher skill ceiling by adding new stages might make it last longer or bring some new things to explore back into the game, but I do admit it wont be as strong when sm4sh comes out.

 

[Deleted member]

The DS = the 7th generation of gaming (current still, but it is almost over)
The 3DS = the 8th generation of gaming (the current/new generation)

Also, Starfy's games are both on the GBA and DS, so these rules in this theory do not apply to Starfy.

Well then Zelda should stop being a terrible character. That would be a nice change. That is also why I expect Zelda to not be shown for at least 4-6 months.

And yes, there would be more Shelda players. There's a bit in Brawl and a bit in Project M, and they have been effective despite Zelda being relatively weaker in both.

Really, the problem isn't Sheik, it is Zelda.

I find Zelda to be plenty competent when alone in P:M. Her new toys certainly make her a lot of fun, and she can certainly capitalize on her Zoning, Spacing, Okizeme, and Pressure game if you focus on what she can do. I actually really like P:M Zelda, her teleport, Nayru's love, and fireballs are amazing at doing what she needs and racking up damage and creating mind games. She lacks a bit of power in her Smash Attacks, but like I said, replace transform with a "Magic Charge" like PM Lucas and she's set, easily a mid-high to high tier character with that. I would totally main her competitively if so. Even in P:M I'd main her competitively just look at this ****:

My only gripe in P:M is that Transform was kept for tradition's sake when it's not necessary at all. It's a waste of a move, and a huge peeve if you miss and input, as it means transforming into Sheik and FORCING to change your strategy, or wasting time to transform back. Zelda needs to focus on what Zelda can do best, the two cannot work properly in synergy, half-zoner/half-rushdown is too awkard of a polarity for a transformer as they are opposite playstyle with comepleltly different strategies. Plus, Sheik doesn't need a Zoner half as she has plenty of Mix Up and Spacing moves with the Chain and moreso with the needles.

The NEED to be seperated, as BOTH would benefit hugely form the extra move and not having to depend on one another anymore. If we split Zelda from Sheik then Sheik can get a good stealhty approach options, something like Eddie's "shadow" move, you know, where he disappears into his shadow to strike from the unknown? And Zelda gets her much needed power boost.

Making them work together is too much of hassle and it means re-inventing both characters so they work together properly.

Once again, look at Val in BB, his two halves are "Combo focused Rushdown" and "Power-focuses Rushdown" and they work perfectly as he can transition from one to the next using his wolf form to approach foes and string combos. Shield will NEVER be able to do that, best give that option to Mewtwo instead.

 

[Reznor]

WiiU, 3DS, PS4, Xbone, and Vita are all 8th Gen.

also the ouya

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

WiiU, 3DS, PS4, Xbone, and Vita are all 8th Gen.

I think you mean the PS4, Vita and XBone are 8th gen

 

[LiteralGrill]

also the ouya

Oh god man... The game system that hurts the devs who supported it and is failing just like everyone said it would...

I'm gonna buy one for giggles on ebay when they are a buck a pop.

 

[Reznor]

I think you mean the PS4, Vita and XBone are 8th gen

not sure if joke so
a gen isn't about the hardware its about when the system is released

 

[FlareHabanero]

I think you mean the PS4, Vita and XBone are 8th gen

Nope, he's not wrong. 3DS, Wii U, Playstation Vita, PS4, and Xbox One.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

WiiU, 3DS, PS4, Xbone, and Vita are all 8th Gen.

 

[Frostwraith]

I, for one, don't think John's theory holds any truth. Sakurai picks characters as he damn pleases and I severely doubt he'll choose or reject characters based on their generational debut.

 

[IsmaR]

Gotta love dem spats (who doesn't really).

The point was that she was nearly non-existant before E3, now she's got more porn than Samus does.

I dedicate the remainder of my days to rectify this.

If you watch the Melee, E3 reveal (which is the opening cutscene for Melee), you notice that the Wolfen clashes with Fox's Arwing, thus supporting that theory/ Also, given that context, I can certainly see why people expected Ridley for Melee, and perhaps he WAS planned for Melee at some point, who knows. Now I only wonder why he was made a boss in Brawl.

Theory time?

Ok, what if Ridley was planned as a Boss AND a playable for Brawl, but was simplified into a Boss due to time constraints. I mean, getting nerfed bosses as playables in fighters is no new concept:

Anyway, the Melee trailer just becuase, but if you watch this with the mind-set of, this is the reveal, and every character shown and hinted is planned for development, a lot of things about Melee's development and potentially planned roster make sense:

(Also, notice the cheering when Ridley... ;_; )

I remember being incredibly hyped then incredibly disappointed for both Wolf and Ridley (I actually was a StarFox*** before a Metroid*** back in those days. Obviously that's flip-flopped since then), with the blows only being somewhat softened by finding out Falco and Mewtwo were there instead. Heck, at least Ridley got a trophy in the end.

That said, honestly'd love it if Ridley was both playable and still a boss in some forme (Meta/Omega Ridley done right, pl0x).

 

[Frostwraith]

I was checking some previous arguments regarding characters being boring and, honestly, I think it's something highly subjective.

Usually, when someone claims a character as boring, it's just a clever masquerade for "I don't want/like this character". Anyone smart enough isn't easily fooled by such claims.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I dedicate the remainder of my days to rectify this.



I remember being incredibly hyped then incredibly disappointed for both Wolf and Ridley (I actually was a StarFox*** before a Metroid*** back in those days. Obviously that's flip-flopped since then), with the blows only being somewhat softened by finding out Falco and Mewtwo were there instead. Heck, at least Ridley got a trophy in the end.

That said, honestly'd love it if Ridley was both playable and still a boss in some forme (Meta/Omega Ridley done right, pl0x).

Back then I had no idea who any of those characters were.

It'd be cool if they remade that part of the intro for the Adventure Mode in Smash 4, if they make said mode like I hope they do. (seperate storyline for every character)

I'm sure Ridley would work out fine as a boss and a playable character, and still make his playable version different from the boss, there have been other games that have used the concept.

 

[Big-Cat]

At the very least, include boss versions of certain characters like how Guilty Gear and BlazBlue do it - normal sized and freaking overpowered.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Speaking of bigger and more powerful versions of characters, what do you guys think of Giga Bowser? Do you guys think he should be a boss again?

 

[Frostwraith]

Speaking of bigger and more powerful versions of characters, what do you guys think of Giga Bowser? Do you guys think he should be a boss again?

He could still be Bowser's FS and a boss at the same time.

Now you may ask: what happens if you fight Giga Bowser as Bowser? Well, Smash Balls couldn't appear at all during the boss battle against Giga Bowser.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I was checking some previous arguments regarding characters being boring and, honestly, I think it's something highly subjective.

Usually, when someone claims a character as boring, it's just a clever masquerade for "I don't want/like this character". Anyone smart enough isn't easily fooled by such claims.

This.

People need to explain their reasons behind regarding a character as dull and boing, and such.
Otherwise they should just say they don't like the character.

 

[Big-Cat]

Speaking of bigger and more powerful versions of characters, what do you guys think of Giga Bowser? Do you guys think he should be a boss again?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

He could still be Bowser's FS and a boss at the same time.

Now you may ask: what happens if you fight Giga Bowser as Bowser? Well, Smash Balls couldn't appear at all during the boss battle against Giga Bowser.

Speaking of that, Adventure Mode (and several other modes) needs to have an option to turn items off. Not like in VS so that you can turn specific items off, but just turn them all off/on.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I'd prefer if Bowser pulled out his good ole' Clown Car and flew around dropping his balls on everyone.

 

[Frostwraith]

This.

People need to explain their reasons behind regarding a character as dull and boing, and such.
Otherwise they should just say they don't like the character.

Thinking hard enough, it's hard to find a character nowadays that doesn't use a concept that has been used elsewhere.

Sure, some characters may stand out more for one reason or another, but in the end, there are many concepts that get reused many times across several works (not just limited to videogames).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

At the very least, include boss versions of certain characters like how Guilty Gear and BlazBlue do it - normal sized and freaking overpowered.

So Bowser in Adventure Mode(who eventually could become Giga Bowser), and at least a slight variation in Melee only with the Metal/Giants. I found that kind of neat, and hope Smash For goes back to Melee's Classic Mode. I want Board the Platforms back too, but still, it was the best balance I saw. No overly unfair battles in the end(obviously Very Hard mode still has some unfair stats to make it harder for you to win, but it's Very Hard mode, so it's justified), the ability to Grab Trophies, more than one mini-game...

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Thinking hard enough, it's hard to find a character nowadays that doesn't use a concept that has been used elsewhere.

Sure, some characters may stand out more for one reason or another, but in the end, there are many concepts that get reused many times across several works (not just limited to videogames).

So long as the world continues to evolve and clever minds are created, more and more new concepts will be created, but there will always be something that uses one of those concepts again.

 

[Frostwraith]

Still regarding Giga Bowser and possible conflicts with Bowser's FS if it remains the same, remind that during any of the boss battles in Brawl, Smash Balls never spawned, making use of Final Smashes impossible.

 

[SoldierSunday]

Maybe dark bowser can be a boss...

 

[IsmaR]

At the very least, include boss versions of certain characters like how Guilty Gear and BlazBlue do it - normal sized and freaking overpowered.

Just paint Brawl Meta Knight pink and call him Galacta Knight.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Still regarding Giga Bowser and possible conflicts with Bowser's FS if it remains the same, remind that during any of the boss battles in Brawl, Smash Balls never spawned, making use of Final Smashes impossible.

Also, they'd have to nerf the Final Smash so that Bowser is still vulnerable to knockback in addition to damage, or otherwise create seperate data for the Giga Bowser boss.

(right?)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Still regarding Giga Bowser and possible conflicts with Bowser's FS if it remains the same, remind that during any of the boss battles in Brawl, Smash Balls never spawned, making use of Final Smashes impossible.

What's weird is that Giga Bowser does not exist in the regular Mario series, which made the Final Smash kind of jarring compared to the rest, even if some were completely made up(Triforce Slash, for instance). Not that it was a bad idea, but the execution left a watered-down previous boss who was honestly terrible as is. I played both Melee's non-nerfed Giga Bowser with codes, and Giga Bowser in Brawl. They nerfed him horribly in Brawl, with his only advantage of taking what's pretty much phantom damage from attacks... but he gets his attacks slowed down with more attacks. To clarify, as Giga Bowser is attacked in Brawl, his moves lag when he tries to counterattack.

Thus, yeah, I hated Brawl's GB, since he was pretty much trash. And Melee's version was not exactly very good either.(Bowser was better, really)

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Maybe dark bowser can be a boss...

Only if after K.Oing him, he'll turn into Giga Dark Bowser and you fight Dark Star Core inside him.

Also, this song must be used.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Droppin' here to just say that story mode (and cutscenes) getting excluded from the final game is quite a bold but disappointing move. Especially after all the big polish put on Uprising and it's way of portraying characters.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I was checking some previous arguments regarding characters being boring and, honestly, I think it's something highly subjective.

Usually, when someone claims a character as boring, it's just a clever masquerade for "I don't want/like this character". Anyone smart enough isn't easily fooled by such claims.

If that is indeed the case, then how come this is applied to a select few characters, and if it was indeed hatred how come it's simply not stated straight.

 

[Big-Cat]

Well, you're comparing two different kinds of games in that regard. Certain games benefit more from story elements than others. A game like Smash Bros. doesn't exactly need a story mode because the focus is on it being a Mascot Fighter. Hence why Marvel vs. Capcom's story modes (if it's present) is incredibly minimal. However, a game like Project X Zone needs a story due to it being an RPG.

 

[Reznor]

Droppin' here to just say that story mode (and cutscenes) getting excluded from the final game is quite a bold but disappointing move. Especially after all the big polish put on Uprising and it's way of portraying characters.

we didn't have story mode (and cutscenes) in the first two games and those games are great

and if they really want to see another SSE they can just do DLC or something

 

[KingofPhantoms]

If that is indeed the case, then how come this is applied to a select few characters, and if it was indeed hatred how come it's simply not stated straight.

Because people think masking it in that way will prevent others from questioning them.