[Super Nuke Bros. Melee] - OFFICIAL DEMO RELEASED YES

[:034:]

Now I know why this game is so epic... It's from the future!

 

[Wind Owl]

Well, I just tried the demo and thought I'd offer some constructive criticism...

1) No initital dash animation. One thing that makes Smash feel so very "Smash-like" is that if you dash, characters are locked into an animation that moves them faster than their normal run. This is what makes dashdancing possible, and it just feels weird without it. Strongly consider adding this.
2) Airdodges go WAY too far. I feel like I can fly with them. Yes, they're Melee-style so you can't fly all over the place, but it's just too far.
3) Airdodges and attacks like Fox's Up B have a maximum x distance and y distance, NOT an overall distance. In Smash, those types of things have a set distance—you could draw a circle around them to represent it. To represent yours, you would draw a square. Not how it should work.
4) Too much friction. Characters should slide more (yes, I want my wavedash )
5) Minor nitpick: It sounds like you recorded the voices yourself (someone on your team, anyway) and that's fine (I wouldn't want a lawsuit or a C&D over that either) but Fox says "FAIYAA" (as in Fire), not "WAIYAA" (even though it sounds like that a little)
6) Platform drop detection should occur on collision, not on keypress. In Melee and Brawl, you can jump, hold down, and slip through a platform as if it weren't there. In your game (and in 64) you would have to land first, then tap down again.
7) Fox can cancel his lasers into shine???? I haven't tested this with other moves, but that would make for some weird crap.
8) Fox can Up B clear through Battlefield >_>
9) No ledge invincibility (or if there is, I don't see it).
10) Shine can be JC'd too early. It shouldn't be JCable until it's active.
11) No reverse ledge-grab and no wavedash. These aren't separate complaints; I'm saying the game needs one or the other. When your shorthops are as short as they are, and ledges are that difficult to grab anyway (poor control on Up B due to keyboard), I suggest allowing reverse edge grab (but not AUTO ledge grab).
12) No pivoting. Trying to pivot neutral B results in Forward B. This is probably because you have no input buffer system, which could be rather bulky to code, so that one I'm not too picky about. EDIT: Actually, I was thinking about it, and it wouldn't be too hard. I don't know what the frame buffer for pivots is (I believe it's 3-5 in melee) but let's call it 5:

function onEnterFrame() {
  if (Key.isDown(\*key opposite character's direction\*)
    this.pivotBuffer = 5;
  else if (this.pivotBuffer > 0) this.pivotBuffer--;
}

Then, when they hit B...

if Key.isDown(\*facingopposite*\ && !(pivotBuffer>0)) //do forward B
else //neutral B

Things I do like:
1) Automatic Fastfall. In Smash, you have to time your fastfalls with your descending momentum. In yours, you can just hold down.
2) Aerials are ledge-cancellable. Not really sure if this is a good thing, but different from Smash and definitely interesting.

Random BAWWING:
I know this is too late, but are you guys using rasterized sprites? If they were vectored you could fit in a lot more moves... The game feels empty with just smashes, B-moves and ONE aerial. At least give us aerials...
Mario should have Nair and Fox should have Dair; they're better known for these moves and frankly Mario's Fair sucks when it's his only aerial.
Another major flaw is lack of grabs. A lot of depth in all fighting games is the ability to attack an opponent even while they're shielding, so that they must use other means to avoid that attack. Even if it's just an automatic grab-throw, not a grab-hold-throw, it would add a lot to the game.

tl;dr:
The game looks nice, I'll admit. The graphics are professional, and the voices sound decent. Stage concepts, from what I've seen, are intriguing. This could be a very fun game, but unless you add more variety in attacks it will not become competitive (maybe you don't want that?) I would rather have more aerials than a forward B.

PS: If you are still looking for beta testers, I would gladly continue testing and criticizing. As for my background, I have worked in Flash on my own, teaching myself ActionScript (it was my first programming language, actually). I have taken classes in computer science for two years in high school, learning C++ and Java, I've taken web design, and I'm currently a freshman Digital Media major in college.

 

[Hoeloe]

You can wavedash in the demo, Its one of the features a lot of people like about it. We are using vector graphics, but filesize issues prevent us from having as many attacks as we would have liked and still use our full character roster. The standard B cancel is a new tech to allow combos even with the lack of moves.

 

[Wind Owl]

Would it not be possible to use Flash's dynamic import features to load ONLY the characters that were being played at a time?

Maybe I was just sucking at wavedashing... Kinda hard with a laptop keyboard, lol.

As for cancels, they're cool, but they all happen too early. It feels weird to be able to cancel a move before it goes active; that's more like a feign.

You still haven't addressed the rest of my points... I spent a while on that post ;_;

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

Well, I just tried the demo and thought I'd offer some constructive criticism...

1) No initital dash animation. One thing that makes Smash feel so very "Smash-like" is that if you dash, characters are locked into an animation that moves them faster than their normal run. This is what makes dashdancing possible, and it just feels weird without it. Strongly consider adding this.

There is an initial dash animation, you just aren't locked into it.

2) Airdodges go WAY too far. I feel like I can fly with them. Yes, they're Melee-style so you can't fly all over the place, but it's just too far.

Some characters go further than others. Fix?

3) Airdodges and attacks like Fox's Up B have a maximum x distance and y distance, NOT an overall distance. In Smash, those types of things have a set distance—you could draw a circle around them to represent it. To represent yours, you would draw a square. Not how it should work.

That's not true. I did indeed use sin and cos for it, so it is in fact a circle.

4) Too much friction. Characters should slide more (yes, I want my wavedash )

There's always someone complaining. We spent a lot of time generally adjusting traction, because people said it was too slippery, then decreasing traction because there was too much friction. Don't like friction? Play Sonic, he's better than brawl, I swear :D

5) Minor nitpick: It sounds like you recorded the voices yourself (someone on your team, anyway) and that's fine (I wouldn't want a lawsuit or a C&D over that either) but Fox says "FAIYAA" (as in Fire), not "WAIYAA" (even though it sounds like that a little)

Heh.

6) Platform drop detection should occur on collision, not on keypress. In Melee and Brawl, you can jump, hold down, and slip through a platform as if it weren't there. In your game (and in 64) you would have to land first, then tap down again.

Press the button faster

7) Fox can cancel his lasers into shine???? I haven't tested this with other moves, but that would make for some weird crap.

Every character can cancel neutral special into another special, except Kirby, Yoshi
and possibly C.F. It's called Neutral cancel, and it's crazy fun at times.

8) Fox can Up B clear through Battlefield >_>

This has been fixed for both Fox and Pikachu in a newer version (unreleased, betatesters only)

9) No ledge invincibility (or if there is, I don't see it).

There isn't. If every aerial cancels onto ledges, it'd be broken.

10) Shine can be JC'd too early. It shouldn't be JCable until it's active.

11) No reverse ledge-grab and no wavedash. These aren't separate complaints; I'm saying the game needs one or the other. When your shorthops are as short as they are, and ledges are that difficult to grab anyway (poor control on Up B due to keyboard), I suggest allowing reverse edge grab (but not AUTO ledge grab).

We might consider it.

Random BAWWING:
I know this is too late, but are you guys using rasterized sprites? If they were vectored you could fit in a lot more moves... The game feels empty with just smashes, B-moves and ONE aerial. At least give us aerials...
Mario should have Nair and Fox should have Dair; they're better known for these moves and frankly Mario's Fair sucks when it's his only aerial.
Another major flaw is lack of grabs. A lot of depth in all fighting games is the ability to attack an opponent even while they're shielding, so that they must use other means to avoid that attack. Even if it's just an automatic grab-throw, not a grab-hold-throw, it would add a lot to the game.

The game uses tween models.

Try actually USING the b moves, we changed hitboxes, strength and priority on a lot of them. Donkey Kong can now work his side B and downB into combos, and Mario can side B to upB, almost inescapably if you do it properly.

Try to remember that this isn't really Smash Bros XD
It's a different game, so use moves you wouldn't usually use, you'll find that a lot of things have become more useful.

 

[Yaya]

Link's model looks awesome.

Though according to Taro he's hell to animate.

 

[Maikeru17]

Oh my god Kazuki just said NO U and ripped Wind Owl in a devastating multi-quote combo!
Very, very impressive. The tech skill displayed after the amazing mindgame still has my jaw on the floor.


:[
I'm such an instigator.
<3

-Nox`

 

[Wind Owl]

Yes, he corrected me on a lot of points but honestly if they don't add more attack variety their game will be way too shallow. Also, about the initial dash speeds, they're SLOWER than running, which is why it feels so un-Smashlike. The locking into the animation is important too (actually it wouldn't be balanced with the speed if you weren't locked it) but the main reason is the speed.

 

[Maikeru17]

Well, there isn't exactly a lack of depth; and at a first glance, the game appears to lack the ability to be creative with combos.
I'd just like to mention that even though these characters are complete, it is still beta. Who knows what might happen over the course of the next few months? Someone might change their mind about something on the engine. A glitch might be found later on that can be turned into a useful advanced technique.

The game doesn't lack depth; it lacks flashiness, but at the same time, it doesn't.
Try being a little more creative with the moves you're given. I've been playing around with Sonic for a while now; and just today I noticed a pretty neat combo that was flashy and effective, that I hadn't done before.
Creativity and awesome mindgames is what SNBM is all about.


-Nox`

 

[Wind Owl]

Um... k, but even if you do find combos, there won't be much variety in them.

 

[Hoeloe]

You would be surprised at how much variety is possible with 7 moves.

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

Lol what part of "It's a flash game, not an emulator" don't you understand?
If we include all the moves from the smash series, we'll never finish it because it's extremely
hard to find people who animate anything like us. The animation is made by just two guys. Me and 2nd.

Don't just not use the specials because they aren't useful for attacking in SSB,
we put effort into making them all viable attacks D:< I know it feels un smash like, but this game
isn't smash bros, it just borrows a lot of ideas from it. I might consider locking the dash start.
A lot of the specials such as donkey kong's, mario's and kirby's specials can combo now.

 

[Wind Owl]

I understand that... I guess what I'm trying to say is that you're focusing too much on having a lot of characters and not enough on making individual characters deeper. But I digress. It's your project, and if people like it, great. Even I might like it once I've seen the finished product. But from what I've seen, it lacks variety.

tl;dr, I'm just giving you guys my 2¢. Take it or leave it.

EDIT: If I sound like I'm trying to be mean or condescending it's just because I suck at communication D:

 

[Yaya]

Wind Owl, some characters are HELL to animate.

Link has 8 angles, try animating that with the entire moveset.

Yeah, I'd pass.

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

Lol what part of "It's a flash game, not an emulator" don't you understand?
If we include all the moves from the smash series, we'll never finish it because it's extremely
hard to find people who animate anything like us. The animation is made by just two guys. Me and 2nd.

Don't just not use the specials because they aren't useful for attacking in SSB,
we put effort into making them all viable attacks D:< I know it feels un smash like, but this game
isn't smash bros, it just borrows a lot of ideas from it. I might consider locking the dash start.
A lot of the specials such as donkey kong's, mario's and kirby's specials can combo now.

You guys made your game so similar to Smash Bros that now people are complaining that it isn't even more like Smash Bros. lol

Is Sonic going to keep both his spikes or are you guys going to take out one of them?

Also is there any way I can play this without being online? :D

 

[Florida]

I did a "gamefiction" thing on Ganon. His sword was his down B, where it worked like Snake's C4 to plant it into the ground and then recall it like Link's Boomerang from across the screen. /shrug.

Yes please! That's the sort of creativity that Ganondorf needs. Not luigified moves from Captain Falcon. Taro/Callum, use this!

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

You guys made your game so similar to Smash Bros that now people are complaining that it isn't even more like Smash Bros. lol

Is Sonic going to keep both his spikes or are you guys going to take out one of them?

Also is there any way I can play this without being online? :D

Sonic is going to keep his two spikes.
If you PM me I can give you a download link.

 

[2nd Stamp]

Hey. I've been absent for a little while, but I give you not 1.. But 2 updates!

Enjoy the movie, also.

www.supernukebros.moonfruit.com

Leave a comment!

 

[Maikeru17]

Nice guys. :] Awesome update, and the animations on Link look top-notch.
And the video was a nice touch. ;3


-Nox`

 

[2nd Stamp]

Nice guys. :] Awesome update, and the animations on Link look top-notch.
And the video was a nice touch. ;3


-Nox`

Thanks, hey, it's what we do.

also

bump

 

[Steelia]

Haha, awesome job with Link... and as Maikeru17 pointed out, nice touch with the video. Certainly added a more... DOJO!! update feel to it. Always nice to see new characters in action.

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

Yay we has a vid! :D Link looks really good,but why are the numbers 242 engraved on his sword instead of the Triforce?XD

 

[crewster]

Do the characters have to be in a smash game before?
If so I think Toon Link should be in
If not I think that Birdo should be in as well as Toon Link
You havn't put much on the websit have you?

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

Do the characters have to be in a smash game before?
If so I think Toon Link should be in
If not I think that Birdo should be in as well as Toon Link
You havn't put much on the websit have you?

The characters most certainly do not have to have been in a Smash game before.

In fact, this game's roster is mainly newcomers. I don't think Birdo will be a playable character.

 

[Hoeloe]

Yay we has a vid! :D Link looks really good,but why are the numbers 242 engraved on his sword instead of the Triforce?XD

The engraving is that from Twilight Princess. It has 2 symbols akin to ~ on either side of a Triforce with a line at each end.

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

The engraving is that from Twilight Princess. It has 2 symbols akin to ~ on either side of a Triforce with a line at each end.

I don't think you're doing it right

 

[Hoeloe]

Shh, they don't have to know that >:C

 

[2nd Stamp]

The characters most certainly do not have to have been in a Smash game before.

In fact, this game's roster is mainly newcomers. I don't think Birdo will be a playable character.

We sure as hell know the engraving

 

[Yaya]

I wonder who the first Newcomer revealed will be...

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

The "4" might not be a 4 but I can not figure out how it looks like the Triforce surrounded by "~".

:/

 

[Hoeloe]

The triforce if TP looked more like |<| than just a plain triforce, but this is not really the point ;D

 

[Yaya]

Link is broken.


Seriously.

His Up-B outspeeds EVERYTHING.




The ultimate challenge in this game so far is 3-stocking a level 9 Link with Samus.

I pulled it off.

Taro got mad at me.

 

[Florida]

@Yaya, not just that, but his dair can do 40% if done correctly. Also the thing has way too much knockback rofl. His dair is what makes him so scary, so he definitely needs a nerf on that and his up-b on ground (although Taro thinks his dair status should stay, silly Taro ).

EDIT: Rofl I just 3 stocked Link with Samus. It actually isn't that hard; Samus's up-b can out-do Link's. Just do the jab combo to up-b, then throw in some aerials and spam some rockets lol. Also I finished it with a wavesmash XD.

EDIT: Actually, the main problem with Link is that he deals a LOT of damage, and FAST. As mentioned, his dair can do 40%, but the average is 20%. What's more is that his smash does 35%, and his boomerang can do about 20. He needs nerfs in his damage-dealing area more than anything.

 

[Yaya]

Really? My strat for beating Link was to use Missiles like crazy, and Aerial him when he got close, and use the charge shot for a Kill Move.

EDIT: Yeah, being easy to combo doesn't even out the fact he does 20 per hit.

At least Bowser is Painfully slow.

 

[Florida]

oh LOL, his boomerang can do infinite amount of damage xD
I got lvl 9 Pikachu up to 1100%. Let's see if you can find out how to do it, yaya

 

[Wavekirby]

Maybe in this game, the only way to make everyone even, is to make everyone broken! lol

 

[Florida]

Well, so far everyone DOES sort of have something "cheap" about them, but no one is broken (besides Link as of now lol). What I mean by "cheap" is everyone has something useful: whether that be great combos, or no combos and great killing moves, or excellent recoveries, or amazing weight, or whatever. Every character is balanced in that way, besides Link. xD

Seriously, Bowser is at 2000%. Dayum. I can 3 stock Bowser in under a minute with this.

 

[Ojanya]

Where do you get the demo at? :S





2nd, can we expect this game to have online vs. mode and possibly be updated after it's out?

 

[Florida]

You can't find the demo yet. Yaya and I are beta testers, so that's why we can play as Link.

 

[Ojanya]

You can't find the demo yet. Yaya and I are beta testers, so that's why we can play as Link.

Alright, well, I found this demo.



The games actually pretty fun for that ridiculously early. Is it sped up at all in your version? It seems kind of slow. :S


EDIT: Nevermind, Bowser vs Bowser is just really slow, lol. It's probably faster than Brawl by far when it comes down to it.