Super Mario/Odyssey Mario for Smash- Because why not?

ryuu seika

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#42
Mario takes his hat off, pulls the golden rabbit from 64 out of it, throws the rabbit away and pulls a T-Rex, retreating into the background as he does so?

Hell, it could even be a rabbid, considering Rayman's presence in the game.
 
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Diddy Kong

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#43
Why not Star Fox Zero Fox? Tropical Freeze DK and Diddy? Samus Returns Samus? Planet Robobot Kirby?

:rolleyes:
 

Altais

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#45
It's official: I wouldn't mind Cappy replacing FLUDD as Mario's down-special.

For those whom haven't played Mario Odyssey, there are multiple ways you can use Cappy: By default, you can throw him straight forward by pressing X or Y, and he'll immediately return to you. If you press and hold X or Y, Cappy will spin in place for roughly two seconds; during this time, you can jump on Cappy to get an extra boost. Using motion controls, you can have Cappy home in on enemies, throw him straight upwards, or have him circle around you.

Overall, there are multiple uses Cappy would have as Mario's down special, other than dealing damage. And just like FLUDD, he can be a useful edge-guarding tool.
 
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#46
Cappy should just be his new side+B. He should be able to steer it and use it as a platform if needed. I don't see the need for giving Mario an entirely new moveset for this one move, but it'd be a welcome replacement for that old cape move.

Possessing other players doesn't work even in theory, in addition to being a nightmare to balance correctly, so it should not be part of this move.
 
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Guybrush20X6

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#47
Compromise idea!

Cappy being worked into new special moves for customisation or else Smash's character customisation going more in Mortal Kombat X's direction.
 

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#48
Well it looks like Link's getting a redesign.

I wonder if Mario is teamed up with Cappy or not this time.
 

ryuu seika

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#49
Definitely seems more plausible after the Breath of the Wild revamp on Link but Mario has a strangely varied past when it comes to incorporating one shot mechanics into his moveset. He got FLUUD, despite seemingly nobody wanting it, yet never got a thing from the (IIRC significantly more popular) Galaxy games.

We'll have to wait and see if Oddysey gets any love.
 

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#51
Why is this thread still in the newcomers section? It needs to be moved to veterans.
I'm not sure. I guess it's because we don't know whether BotW Link replaces TP Link, like he did to OoT Link or if he's more like Zamus to Samus.
 

Quillion

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#53
Well, now that this has been properly moved to Veterans, I can repost this:

So I've been thinking of several changes they could make to Mario to keep him the well-rounded character he is and make him more faithful to recent games:

  • Change d-air into the Goomba Stomp. Gives him a mid-strength meteor as well as his most-used attack in the whole main Mario series.
  • Change Side-B into spin. Essentially the same as cape (reflects projectiles, recovery help), but different animation.
  • Change Down-B into Ground Pound. A move present in all 3D games and the NSMB series and predating even Smash 64; Mario should have this.
To compensate for this, Dr. Mario can retain certain moves that Mario has altered.
 

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#54
And you could link Classic to new with Ground pound turning into a dive if you hit B again so it keeps them guessing
 
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#56
To me Cappy kind of sounds like a new kind of grab???? I'm not sure how functional it'd be but it's the only way I can see it (or as a side-B but imo it'd be boring)
 

Quillion

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#57
How about we have both Odyssey Mario and Classic Mario in the game? Let's have our cake and eat it too.
You mean a Mario with eyes on his hat and a Mario with no eyes on his hat? I don't really see that working out.

If we're talking something more divergent like Mario and Paper Mario, then that could work.
 
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#58
I want side b to be cappy throw. I'd like for it to turn into a temporary platform like it does in the game. Slight hitbox but nothing ridiculous

I also want down b to be the belly flop dive he does in the games, though it might look a little ridiculous on the serious Mario Smash has. It wouldn't have a hitbox, but it would give him a small boost, and could be jumped out of after hitting the ground, just like in the games. Can be good for recovery mixups, and combo extensions.

Well, now that this has been properly moved to Veterans, I can repost this:

So I've been thinking of several changes they could make to Mario to keep him the well-rounded character he is and make him more faithful to recent games:

  • Change d-air into the Goomba Stomp. Gives him a mid-strength meteor as well as his most-used attack in the whole main Mario series.
  • Change Side-B into spin. Essentially the same as cape (reflects projectiles, recovery help), but different animation.
  • Change Down-B into Ground Pound. A move present in all 3D games and the NSMB series and predating even Smash 64; Mario should have this.
To compensate for this, Dr. Mario can retain certain moves that Mario has altered.
I like that dair.
 

Astraltar

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#59
I think Mario's old moves should stay...except for the bloody FLUDD move. Mario Sunshine is so old now and there have been so many other innovations in the Mario series they could give him. I would think maybe give him his cap boomerang as his side-B and swich the cape move to down-B. Then let Dr. Mario stay in the game with the older moves.

But possession doesn't seem like a reasonable addition to his abilities. Possessing other players would be a broken mechanic.
 

Morbi

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#60
I think Mario's old moves should stay...except for the bloody FLUDD move. Mario Sunshine is so old now and there have been so many other innovations in the Mario series they could give him. I would think maybe give him his cap boomerang as his side-B and swich the cape move to down-B. Then let Dr. Mario stay in the game with the older moves.

But possession doesn't seem like a reasonable addition to his abilities. Possessing other players would be a broken mechanic.
They could reserve it for his Final Smash. Because that NEEDS to go as well.
 

The Animator

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#62
As long as they keep Dr. Mario around, I wouldn't mind seeing lots of tweaks to Mario's move set. If people are unhappy with them they can use Dr. for the classic move set, meanwhile regular Mario can stay current with more appropriate moves that reflect is current games. Even just the hat spin replacing down b would be great.
 
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#63
I think if Mario gets a new moveset, that this would be ideal:

B: Fireball

As classic as it gets, same as always. No changes here.

B>: Cappy Throw

Visually different, but functionally the same as Mario's cape. Reflects projectiles Air stalls.

B^: Rocket Nozzle

I'm surprised that this isn't how F.L.U.D.D. was represented in Brawl and 3DS/Wii U. Fairly simple recovery similar to Diddy Kong's recovery. Chargable to go higher.

Bv: Galaxy Spin

Not exactly like the Mario Tornado. Instead of several spins, it would be one big spin with a small air stall and vertical recovery. Would deal damage unlike Rosalina's and slightly draw in foes.

BONUS: Extra moves!
Glide

So Super Mario World doesn't feel left out, Mario's cape could be repurposed as a glide. I actually want gliding to return just for this. (I'm trying to represent as many Mario games as possible.)

Down Aerial: Ground Pound

Since Mario's spin is now occupied by his Bv, the classic ground pound deserves to return.

Back Aerial: Tanooki Tail

Basically Mewtwo's back aerial. Please give me this fanservice, Sakurai.

Wall Jump: Wall Jump from Sunshine onward

Replace the Smash Bros. wall jump with Mario's wall jump. Instead of tapping the opposite direction, have Mario slide on walls and press the jump button to wall jump.

Beyond these, Mario would still have the same normal attacks, especially his bread and butter throws and up tilt.
This allows Mario to still be a well rounded character while still referencing all his major titles, except Super Mario Bros. 2. Sorry, but Peach has that game covered.

EDIT:
Since posting this, I have thought of two other moves for Mario's moveset.

Down Tilt: Roll

One of Mario's recent moves from 3D Land onward has been a roll. Mario's current down tilt is nothing special, so a roll attack would be a nice upgrade.

Final Smash: Mega Mushroom

I know what you're all thinking. "Isn't this just a Super Mushroom clone?" And to that, I say, "Not quite!" Though similar, Mega Mario could be like have two Super Mushrooms at once (imagine a Super Mushroom while in Giant Smash). It could also damage foes just by walking on them. Like Giga Bowser, Mario could still have full control over his normal moves in this form. Plus, the Mario Finale is too generic and not from any games.
 
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Grizzexploder

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#64
Changes to moveset:
Side B- Cap Toss (hold the button to keep it in place, and/or press button again to dive (if button is held, then dive to the cap and bounce on it), and even reflect oncoming projectiles)
Down B- Ground Pound (like Bowser and Yoshi, but Mario has the ability to jump straight up after hitting the ground, or a faster roll attack (his new down tilt), like in Odyssey)
Dash Attack- Dive (with ability to somersault back onto feet when button is pressed again)
Down Tilt- Roll (like Cloud/Mega Man's slide attack down tilts, slower than if done out of Down B)
Neutral Air- Mario Tornado or the Star Spin from Galaxy (which would be exactly the same as current neutral air, but different aesthetically)
Down Air- Goomba Stomp (like Ganondorf or Falcon's) or Cape Dive Bomb (from SMW, where Mario pulls out his cape and plunges downwards)
Final Smash- Mega Mushroom (Mario becomes super large and stomps on everyone, either knocking them back or leaving them stuck in the ground and then being knocked back), or Rainbow Mario (Mario gets a Starman, goes rainbow and becomes faster, knocking back anyone he runs into), or T-Rex (Mario captures a T-Rex and T-Rex goes berserk, knocking back everything it hits)
 
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Guybrush20X6

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#65
Changes to moveset:
Side B- Cap Toss (hold the button to keep it in place, and/or press button again to dive (if button is held, then dive to the cap and bounce on it), and even reflect oncoming projectiles)
Down B- Ground Pound (like Bowser and Yoshi, but Mario has the ability to jump straight up after hitting the ground, or a faster roll attack (his new down tilt), like in Odyssey)
Dash Attack- Dive (with ability to somersault back onto feet when button is pressed again)
Down Tilt- Roll (like Cloud/Mega Man's slide attack down tilts, slower than if done out of Down B)
Neutral Air- Mario Tornado or the Star Spin from Galaxy (which would be exactly the same as current neutral air, but different aesthetically)
Down Air- Goomba Stomp (like Ganondorf or Falcon's) or Cape Dive Bomb (from SMW, where Mario pulls out his cape and plunges downwards)
Final Smash- Mega Mushroom (Mario becomes super large and stomps on everyone, either knocking them back or leaving them stuck in the ground and then being knocked back), or Rainbow Mario (Mario gets a Starman, goes rainbow and becomes faster, knocking back anyone he runs into), or T-Rex (Mario captures a T-Rex and T-Rex goes berserk, knocking back everything it hits)
Well thanks for making this thread your fist post.

If I may offer a little feedback, Mario's neutral air wouldn't function the same if it was changed to a spin because his neutral air is an attack that stays out for a while and it's damage and knockback depend on how long it's been out.

The rest sounds pretty good as an alternative to Mario's old moves.
 
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#66
I'd love to see the cap toss as a side special in the way others have described.

It'd be a good compromise in terms of both giving Mario a more versatile horizontal recovery through platforms/diving with a second b press, while retaining the old functionality of the cape in projectile form (i.e. throwing out the cap as an edgeguard tool, it does like 1% damage but flips the opponents).
 
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#67
I really would lile for Odyssey Mario to be involved in some way. Many have proposed his new FS be him turning into the T-Rex.
 

Quillion

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#68
I know that I have given my ideas for (minor) moveset changes earlier in this thread, but I really want to say that there's no need for Mario to change his moveset to match Odyssey. It's just a really awful idea to give Mario a move that he has in one game for no other reason than to update him.

Yes, you might say FLUDD, but at least that move differentiated him from Luigi. Even then, a lot of people don't like FLUDD because it's a one-shot move from Sunshine (plus the move itself is very situational and essentially useless on any stage without constant bottomless pits).

When I thought of my own moveset changes for Mario, I made sure to pick moves that represent the whole Mario series as opposed to just one game. Hence why I selected the Goomba Stomp (all Mario platformers except for SMB2) and Ground Pound (all 3D Mario games and the NSMB series) as potential moves for him. And at least the Spin was brought into the NSMB games as a non-attacking move.

Besides, what will happen when the next 3D Mario game with a significant gimmick comes out?
 

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#69
I feel like this has probably been argued before, and I'm not sure if this is the place to do it or if there's another Mario thread but:

Mario has a specific purpose besides representing his own games. He's the Ryu of Smash. Every fighting game has their basic jack of all trades character and Mario is that for Smash, he's not super rushdown/combo oriented, not super footsie/neutral game oriented, and not super read/punish oriented, but he has the tools to do well in all 3. I see this brought up on Reddit a bunch but I don't see it as much here. It's an important part of fighting games to have a character who plays in the middle with a basic fighting style so newer players have an easier option to jump on to (without building bad habits, I'm looking at you Kirby Down B). For a Nintendo fighting game, it only makes sense for that character to be Mario, the Nintendo (nay, world wide gaming) icon.

For that reason you frequently hear people argue that you can't turn his D-Air into a 'divekick' with the ground pound, as it's not 'the basic fucntion' of most D-Airs and not exactly the friendliest thing for newbies. Same for involving a bunch of movement tech like Cappy. It would make some sense to replace FLUDD with the ground pound, maybe even ground pound in the air and roll on the ground like it would be in 3D Marios (and if it's not reaching too far, going groundpound into roll like is used in Odyssey). There are a lot of those kinds of specials in the game so it makes sense.

As far as Cappy goes though, I'd love to include him in the game, and I actually think that a second Mario to replace the likes of Doc would be fun (Hell, call him 'Costume Mario' and give him a bunch of the popular outfits from Odyssey including Doctor Mario). His Down B could still be that tornado spin with the animation slowed down slightly to represent the air spinning in game. I mean, if there's 1 character in the world that deserves multiple representations it's Mario (though Paper could be one of them).
 
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#71
I feel like this has probably been argued before, and I'm not sure if this is the place to do it or if there's another Mario thread but:

Mario has a specific purpose besides representing his own games. He's the Ryu of Smash. Every fighting game has their basic jack of all trades character and Mario is that for Smash, he's not super rushdown/combo oriented, not super footsie/neutral game oriented, and not super read/punish oriented, but he has the tools to do well in all 3. I see this brought up on Reddit a bunch but I don't see it as much here. It's an important part of fighting games to have a character who plays in the middle with a basic fighting style so newer players have an easier option to jump on to (without building bad habits, I'm looking at you Kirby Down B). For a Nintendo fighting game, it only makes sense for that character to be Mario, the Nintendo (nay, world wide gaming) icon.

For that reason you frequently hear people argue that you can't turn his D-Air into a 'divekick' with the ground pound, as it's not 'the basic fucntion' of most D-Airs and not exactly the friendliest thing for newbies. Same for involving a bunch of movement tech like Cappy. It would make some sense to replace FLUDD with the ground pound, maybe even ground pound in the air and roll on the ground like it would be in 3D Marios (and if it's not reaching too far, going groundpound into roll like is used in Odyssey). There are a lot of those kinds of specials in the game so it makes sense.

As far as Cappy goes though, I'd love to include him in the game, and I actually think that a second Mario to replace the likes of Doc would be fun (Hell, call him 'Costume Mario' and give him a bunch of the popular outfits from Odyssey including Doctor Mario). His Down B could still be that tornado spin with the animation slowed down slightly to represent the air spinning in game. I mean, if there's 1 character in the world that deserves multiple representations it's Mario (though Paper could be one of them).
A Second (or if Doc's back, a third) Mario is basically what this thread started on waaaaaay back when Smash Switch was just an idea in the community. It just happened to get sorted into the veteran's board.

Question is which Odyssey costume does he use? I'm thinking the Wedding Suit from the end as it's got it's own amiibo.
 

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#72
I'm not a fan of 2 Marios let alone 3, but I do really enjoy cappy.
I feel like this has probably been argued before, and I'm not sure if this is the place to do it or if there's another Mario thread but:

Mario has a specific purpose besides representing his own games. He's the Ryu of Smash. Every fighting game has their basic jack of all trades character and Mario is that for Smash, he's not super rushdown/combo oriented, not super footsie/neutral game oriented, and not super read/punish oriented, but he has the tools to do well in all 3. I see this brought up on Reddit a bunch but I don't see it as much here. It's an important part of fighting games to have a character who plays in the middle with a basic fighting style so newer players have an easier option to jump on to (without building bad habits, I'm looking at you Kirby Down B). For a Nintendo fighting game, it only makes sense for that character to be Mario, the Nintendo (nay, world wide gaming) icon.

For that reason you frequently hear people argue that you can't turn his D-Air into a 'divekick' with the ground pound, as it's not 'the basic fucntion' of most D-Airs and not exactly the friendliest thing for newbies. Same for involving a bunch of movement tech like Cappy. It would make some sense to replace FLUDD with the ground pound, maybe even ground pound in the air and roll on the ground like it would be in 3D Marios (and if it's not reaching too far, going groundpound into roll like is used in Odyssey). There are a lot of those kinds of specials in the game so it makes sense.

As far as Cappy goes though, I'd love to include him in the game, and I actually think that a second Mario to replace the likes of Doc would be fun (Hell, call him 'Costume Mario' and give him a bunch of the popular outfits from Odyssey including Doctor Mario). His Down B could still be that tornado spin with the animation slowed down slightly to represent the air spinning in game. I mean, if there's 1 character in the world that deserves multiple representations it's Mario (though Paper could be one of them).
It's true he is the tutorial character of Smash, the thing to remember though is the nature of mechanics changes from game to game, which allows some flexibility in this discussion.

For example, FLUDD wasn't just added to rep Sunshine, it was added to teach players about the newly introduced windboxes.

Cappy seems unique in all the ideas being thrown around involving him. Whether he's being used as a platform or for possession, I doubt these will be common elements to the next Smash.

The one thing they can do is make Mario a tutorial character, but for all levels. Say they make Cappy his new neutral special, that's a projectile, tutorial stuff for beginners. But say you hold it a bit before you throw, and jump on it and it gives you any jump, that's an additional recovery move, now it's a tutorial move for intermediate players.

If they approach Mario in this way, I think it could give people a little bit more of what they want without ruining the tutorial character mantra.
 
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#73
I’m glad to see people agreeing that his side special should be the Cappy throw with a reflect kind of like Falco’s down special.
I think his down B should be changed to the galaxy spin as well.
His neutral and up special are too iconic to be changed imo

While we’re at it they should make him look a bit happier, he always seems so serious in smash games
 
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#76
I think a fair compromise for Cappy Throw to keep the functionality of the cape is to make the cape attributes (reflect and switching an opponent's direction) should only be active during the first few frames while being a mid-range projectile for longer.
 

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#78
I think for Odyssey Mario to feel true to text, he has to be a separate moveset as the real hook of Odyssey's gameplay is mastering the flow of all of Mario's jumping mechanics. Which would be much more difficult in a fighting game context.

He'd also need a way to decide on whether cappy returns immediately or holds in place.
 

Grizzexploder

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#79
I think for Odyssey Mario to feel true to text, he has to be a separate moveset as the real hook of Odyssey's gameplay is mastering the flow of all of Mario's jumping mechanics. Which would be much more difficult in a fighting game context.

He'd also need a way to decide on whether cappy returns immediately or holds in place.
mastering flow of all of mario's jumping mechanics in odyssey= ground pound->jump->cap toss->dive->wall jump->cap toss->dive
(jk) (but adding a ground pound (special) with ability to jump straight up immediately (and/or roll forward) would be a solution)

single press= immediate return
held press= held in place
held in press + press again= dive to cap (and jump off it)
 
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#80
The concept behind Mario is to be a well balanced platform character.

I do not see him getting an entirely new gimmick around capturing characters.

But I DO see Cappy being utilized to expand his platforming abilities.
 
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