Super Mario/Odyssey Mario for Smash- Because why not?

[Guybrush20X6]

With what's been seen at E3 it's clear like Link before him, Mario's gotten a bit of a revamp.

Mario's new Abilities

• Mario can toss his cap as a weapon
• Said cap can also let Mario jump off it to get air and bounce on it again in air for even more height
• Mario can roll around at the speed of... well, faster than a dumpy little Italian man should be able to at least.
• Mario's Cap can let him possess enemies which open a world of possibilities.

And that's not all, Mario can customise himself with different outfits which allows for another world of possibilities. I'm thinking that his default would be the dapper White Tux he's seen in his new amiibo with.

What are your thoughts?

Sample Moveset

B: Cappy Toss- Mario tosses his hat like a boomerang. Holding B keeps it in place as a trap or a trampoline.
B-Side: Mario Roll- Mario rolls around at... less than the speed of sound but still pretty fast. Can be attacked or jumped out of.
B-Up: TBD
B-Down: Cappy Spin: Mario twirls his hat round him in a wide arc, disjointed hitbox that can neutralise projectiles.

Will add more to OP in time.

 

[Arcadenik]

Wow. Wedding amiibos. Very nice!

 

[Oddball]

Goomba for Smash?

 

[PsychoJosh]

Mario's already in Smash. Just replace his FLUDD down+B wiith the hat toss. FLUDD hasn't been relevant for years.

Also making support threads for characters that are already in is against the rules.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Mario's already in Smash. Just replace his FLUDD down+B wiith the hat toss. FLUDD hasn't been relevant for years.

Also making support threads for characters that are already in is against the rules.

What about Breath of the Wild Link? He has his own thread.

 

[PsychoJosh]

What about Breath of the Wild Link? He has his own thread.

I asked about that and apparently he's "exempt" from this stipulation because his thread was created before this rule was in place.

I think it's stupid but whatever. The point is we can't make threads like this anymore.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Thread unlocked and rule decision reversed.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Oh, and I was about to joke: "well that answers the title of the thread."

To be clear, I'm talking about a separate Mario from the main one. I imagine crazy moves with possessing Mushroom Kingdom minions or using different hat abilities.

 

[Arcadenik]

Mario's already in Smash. Just replace his FLUDD down+B wiith the hat toss. FLUDD hasn't been relevant for years.

Also making support threads for characters that are already in is against the rules.

Cape hasn't been relevant in years (this was before Super Mario Maker, mind you).

The hat toss sounds like it could be like Link's boomerang. And how would Mario possessing people with the hat work in Smash?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

And how would Mario possessing people with the hat work in Smash?

I imagine it like Mega Man's power copying. Can't do it to the other players but can use samples of it from the home game. May be the only way to get Goomba playable in Smash.

 

[FunAtParties]

Does this mean the Wario Land Wario thread can come back?

Cape hasn't been relevant in years (this was before Super Mario Maker, mind you).

The hat toss sounds like it could be like Link's boomerang. And how would Mario possessing people with the hat work in Smash?

Cape is still important to making Mario an all arounder though imo. It's his own version of a reflect attack, which is a type of attack that is very prevalent in the game. Mario is a character that's supposed to give a taste of the most common gameplay elements, Cape is important to do that in Smash.

FLUDD is somewhat important for doing that too, but pushboxes aren't as common throughout the game, and I think it's ready to be replaced.

 

[Curious Villager]

FLUDD is very fun when you want to mess around with characters like Ness and Lucas though....

The hat throw seems more like a side special type of move, but I don't really want to get rid of the cape either since its also a pretty fun move Mario can use (Unless Dr. Mario stays Then I guess they could change that)

 

[FunAtParties]

FLUDD is very fun when you want to mess around with characters like Ness and Lucas though....

The hat throw seems more like a side special type of move, but I don't really want to get rid of the cape either since its also a pretty fun move Mario can use (Unless Dr. Mario stays Then I guess they could change that)

What FLUDD does to Ness' and Lucas' recovery is criminal, Seriously some of FLUDD's effects are so janky.

I think Cape would feel fine as a Down Special, changing the hat throw to Side B.

 

[Altais]

I'm glad they decided to make a whole new Mario game with new mechanics. I think a Super Mario Galaxy 3 would have been repetitive.

A Super Mario Odyssey stage would be epic. As for the cap, I could see it working as a move. Plus, this wouldn't be the first time Mario's moveset has been changed. Remember: in Smash 64 and Melee, his down special used to be that spinning thing. But in Smash 3, it was changed to Fludd. [Shrugs] If nothing else, I could see it working as an item or stage element.

 

[Curious Villager]

What FLUDD does to Ness' and Lucas' recovery is criminal, Seriously some of FLUDD's effects are so janky.

I think Cape would feel fine as a Down Special, changing the hat throw to Side B.

FLUDD's wind box can really mess some characters up, but so can the cape. I enjoy using both moves really, but I guess Dr.Mario at least can use the cape too, so changing that can at least separate these two further apart in terms of moveset, at least imo.

As for "Mario Odyssey Mario" I suppose they can probably make a moveset based on the various costumes he wears. Come to think of it, have they confirmed yet if these costumes have any special abilities yet? And if yes, can they have similar properties to what Mario gains after possessing enemies?

 

[Luminario]

We could have Mario with the Odyssey hat spin, orrrrrr... give Pauline the hat spin with her new gorgeous purple hat

I like the idea of giving Mario the hat spin as a side special with Cape as Down. FLUDD still feels rather out of place in Mario's moveset, and in all the time versing him in Brawl and Smash 4 I think it's only affected me badly once.

 

[Curious Villager]

We could have Mario with the Odyssey hat spin, orrrrrr... give Pauline the hat spin with her new gorgeous purple hat

With all thoughts aside, I was kind of expecting someone to give Pauline a thread before Odyssey Mario. I guess she could kind of do like what Rosalina & Luma did for Galaxy and have her use some of Mario's abilities in Odyssey, she has her own hat now, like you said. But I guess that depends on how prominent she actually is in Odyssey....

 

[Luminario]

With all thoughts aside, I was kind of expecting someone to give Pauline a thread before Odyssey Mario. I guess she could kind of do like what Rosalina & Luma did for Galaxy and have her use some of Mario's abilities in Odyssey, she has her own hat now, like you said. But I guess that depends on how prominent she actually is in Odyssey....

Someone (probably me) will make a thread for her eventually. I don't think she's Rosalina-in-Galaxy level prominent in Odyssey's story, but judging from the trailer she sings the main theme and is notable enough in New Donk City to have that festival cutscene where she's on stage singing, so she's likely to be associated with the game enough for her to borrow from it (the people who edited that trailer KNEW what they were doing giving us that shot of Pauline at the end, they knew we'd love seeing her come back). Thanks to the hat and Mario vs Donkey Kong, Pauline probably has enough to make a unique moveset from, but the biggest hurdle is likely popularity.

 

[P.Kay]

Someone (probably me) will make a thread for her eventually. I don't think she's Rosalina-in-Galaxy level prominent in Odyssey's story, but judging from the trailer she sings the main theme and is notable enough in New Donk City to have that festival cutscene where she's on stage singing, so she's likely to be associated with the game enough for her to borrow from it (the people who edited that trailer KNEW what they were doing giving us that shot of Pauline at the end, they knew we'd love seeing her come back). Thanks to the hat and Mario vs Donkey Kong, Pauline probably has enough to make a unique moveset from, but the biggest hurdle is likely popularity.

Well, having Pauline back for a main game is a huge excitement on it's own and she does have enough for a moveset. The only issue here is how long it's been since she's got a big feature (I kinda missed her), which affects her popularity.

 

[FunAtParties]

FLUDD's wind box can really mess some characters up, but so can the cape. I enjoy using both moves really, but I guess Dr.Mario at least can use the cape too, so changing that can at least separate these two further apart in terms of moveset, at least imo.

As for "Mario Odyssey Mario" I suppose they can probably make a moveset based on the various costumes he wears. Come to think of it, have they confirmed yet if these costumes have any special abilities yet? And if yes, can they have similar properties to what Mario gains after possessing enemies?

FLUDD is way safer though, for you to have to mess up Ness offstage with Cape, you have to risk going offstage, and work with a much smaller hitbox. FLUDD you just stand on stage a spray, even with a limited charge you can reach them most times, it's messed up.

I don't really care for Doc so separating them further doesn't matter to me, plus if they intended to expand on Doc they could've done that a long time ago, Mario can do a lot of stuff. Doc is only the way he is, so they can include him last second; he probably wouldn't make it otherwise.

We could have Mario with the Odyssey hat spin, orrrrrr... give Pauline the hat spin with her new gorgeous purple hat

I'm not opposed to Pauline, but there's a lot of characters that have to make it first for me to truly accept her.

I like the idea of giving Mario the hat spin as a side special with Cape as Down. FLUDD still feels rather out of place in Mario's moveset, and in all the time versing him in Brawl and Smash 4 I think it's only affected me badly once.

It's actually really good in specific match-ups. Really ****s with Yoshi.

 

[Luminario]

It's actually really good in specific match-ups. Really ****s with Yoshi.

Is it? FLUDD can stay then. I'm only basing my opinions on versing Mario anyway so you lot likely have better knowledge than me of what it can do. I suppose the hat can't really fit into Mario's moveset easily then.

 

[fogbadge]

id certainly like to see some odyssey stuff in smash

 

[FunAtParties]

Is it? FLUDD can stay then. I'm only basing my opinions on versing Mario anyway so you lot likely have better knowledge than me of what it can do. I suppose the hat can't really fit into Mario's moveset easily then.

I don't know about that lol, but here's some things I'm aware it can do.

-Yoshi trying to recover is hard as it is. I like to mix up my recovery with a down b to the ledge sometimes so I don't have to go low and get footstooled, or go high and get killed off the top early or juggled. DO NOT DO THIS AGAINST MARIO. All he has to do is press the same magical buttons, and Yoshi will plummet into oblivion. Same with Bowser.

-As mentioned early it screws with Ness' and Lucas' up b. It pushes them away from the original position and it's hard to adjust the PKT. For Ness it really messes him up because he doesn't have tether, and his up b covers a shorter distance, so he can't really do it in a safer area like Lucas can. That being said, there's a lot of characters tat can safely ruin Ness' recovery.

-This also kills the Little Mac, but so does everything else.

There's more like with DDD, but the general rule in my experience is just never recover high against Mario. Seeing that Mario is also a scary character to recover low against (his dash attack is great for 2 frames), it makes it dangerous. Plus it can just make it frustrating to approach Mario, so yeah it's pretty useful.

That being said, I'm totally 100% in favor of getting rid of it. The hat would be a big change, but changing a special always tends to be a big change, just like adding FLUDD in the first place. I personally think crazy windboxes are stupid, and lead to a lot of janky stuff, but at the very least they should require a certain level of difficulty and precision to pull off, like Greninja's up b (or taunt) for example.

id certainly like to see some odyssey stuff in smash

At least some of those costumes.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Frankly, I hadn't made a Pauline thread because I thought someone already had.

Question remains, would she be considered a Mario character or a Donkey Kong one?

 

[Luminario]

Frankly, I hadn't made a Pauline thread because I thought someone already had.

Question remains, would she be considered a Mario character or a Donkey Kong one?

Probably Mario with a unique victory theme, I'd say the Donkey Kong Arcade stage clear music. She's not part of the DK Crew enough to be a DK rep.

 

[FunAtParties]

Frankly, I hadn't made a Pauline thread because I thought someone already had.

Question remains, would she be considered a Mario character or a Donkey Kong one?

Depends on what series she'd be based off of. If she's based off of Odyssey (which if she makes it she'll have to) she's a Mario character.

 

[Curious Villager]

Someone (probably me) will make a thread for her eventually. I don't think she's Rosalina-in-Galaxy level prominent in Odyssey's story, but judging from the trailer she sings the main theme and is notable enough in New Donk City to have that festival cutscene where she's on stage singing, so she's likely to be associated with the game enough for her to borrow from it (the people who edited that trailer KNEW what they were doing giving us that shot of Pauline at the end, they knew we'd love seeing her come back). Thanks to the hat and Mario vs Donkey Kong, Pauline probably has enough to make a unique moveset from, but the biggest hurdle is likely popularity.

Yeah she probably has enough to work with with Odyssey and the Mario VS DK games now, she just kind of lacks visible demand for Smash (Rosalina at least had the Mario fanbase rooting for her, even if her demand wasn't as loud as other Mario characters within the Smash community)

As for the whole FLUDD and Cape talk, I'd rather keep them both regardless, their just way too unique for Mario to just throw away, especially since Mario has always been stuck being this cookie cutter all rounder type character overshadowed (ironically) by the likes of Peach and Luigi due to having longer or higher jumps in most other games etc. Smash is probably the only place where he can actually stand out on his own with unique tools that makes him fun to play and pick up.
The hat spin, while unique, doesn't feel quite right to just to rearrange his moveset like that. Although if the Doc stays, then I guess they can change his cape for that and let the Doc keep his, and with Squirtle gone, there is also no other character that can shoot a spray of water at opponents (Greninja has a wonky Hydro Pump though I guess...) but overall, I think i'd rather just give the hat spin to Pauline instead. That's just me though.

 

[ryuu seika]

And how would Mario possessing people with the hat work in Smash?

Vaguely similarly to Inhale? You take over the character briefly if you hit the top of their head, leaving nothing behind to save you if they die. You have brief control of them, during which they can escape faster still by mashing out, then you pop out of the hat like popping off the ledge and they get a chance to beat you up a little.

Note that you wouldn't take damage while controlling them, though, making stage hazards and other players a source of great potential amusement. Having the hat poison them to make up for the loss of damage when possessed instead of struck might also be worth considering.

 

[PsychoJosh]

This thread is basically just for a new special move for Mario and nothing else.

I don't understand why this thread exists. It's for Mario, who is unchanged in every way, except he can throw his hat around and roll. I really don't see how this is the basis for an entirely new moveset.

Are you really going to go through all the effort of changing all of his tilts, his smashes, his aerials, his Final Smash, etc. just for the sake of a totally frivolous difference? Obviously he's not going to be able to possess other players, that's completely unfeasible from a game design standpoint. I don't think you guys put any thought into that idea whatsoever. If you did you'd realize it wouldn't be fun in the slightest and a nightmare to balance properly.

I'm not trying to be mean but I really don't see anything here that deserves its own thread.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

[represses feeling that he's shouting into the wind]

I'm suggesting that Mario & Cappy become their own character. Separate from vanilla, balance the game around Mario. This thread is also open to the idea of Cappy pulling a FLUDD, all talk welcome.

 

[FunAtParties]

This thread is basically just for a new special move for Mario and nothing else.

I don't understand why this thread exists. It's for Mario, who is unchanged in every way, except he can throw his hat around and roll. I really don't see how this is the basis for an entirely new moveset.

Are you really going to go through all the effort of changing all of his tilts, his smashes, his aerials, his Final Smash, etc. just for the sake of a totally frivolous difference? Obviously he's not going to be able to possess other players, that's completely unfeasible from a game design standpoint. I don't think you guys put any thought into that idea whatsoever. If you did you'd realize it wouldn't be fun in the slightest and a nightmare to balance properly.

I'm not trying to be mean but I really don't see anything here that deserves its own thread.

Some other people may want a new character entirely, that's why it exists.

 

[ryuu seika]

Obviously he's not going to be able to possess other players, that's completely unfeasible from a game design standpoint. I don't think you guys put any thought into that idea whatsoever. If you did you'd realize it wouldn't be fun in the slightest and a nightmare to balance properly.

Wow, way to utterly crap on my post immediately above yours.

We have seen that, when Mario possess someone, his existence disappears into the hat. We have seen that he pops up out of the hat like people pop out of Kirby when swallowed or up off a ledge when it's taken from them. And we've also seen that it has to land on the head to take control of a character.

Between the first two features, we have a suicide downside (Mario dies too) and a helpless moment in which the move can be punished after the opponent shakes him off. That prevents most abuse. All it leaves is an easy stock trade if Mario's at high percent.

The answer? That third part.
Mario's hat doesn't enable possession if its upper half hits. Or is it if it doesn't come to a halt on the character? Or both? It's not entirely clear right now but this allows for two possible restrictions that might make it harder to connect (and therefore abuse) the possession part of the move.

The first would be to have the hat have two hitboxes, one top and one bottom. If the top one connected, the move would do damage. If the bottom one connected, possession. If both connected, the top would take priority. Suddenly, you need to know exactly what height their head is going to be when the move connects. Will they jump? Will they duck? Will they fake you out and rush you down? Whatever the case, you now have to outwit them to land it.

And the second would be to have a momentum limit on the hat. Too much movement (in either direction) and it's gonna hit for damage. Want to possess them? You'll have to hit with the end of its arc. Want to escape it? Back away or move on forward. Either way, predictive and reactive spacing are suddenly key elements to its use.

 

[PsychoJosh]

[represses feeling that he's shouting into the wind]

I'm suggesting that Mario & Cappy become their own character. Separate from vanilla, balance the game around Mario. This thread is also open to the idea of Cappy pulling a FLUDD, all talk welcome.

And again, I ask... WHY?

Cappy isn't much more than a B move replacement at the very most. All he does that's different is throw Cappy. Other than that, Mario is still exactly the same in every way. How is he going to be different than regular Mario? Are you really going to redesign all his A moves just because he has a different B move? What is the point of doing that? Are you going to have him in alongside regular Mario without Cappy? You're not answering any of my questions, leading me to believe you haven't put any thought into this whatsoever.

Wow, way to utterly crap on my post immediately above yours.

We have seen that, when Mario possess someone, his existence disappears into the hat. We have seen that he pops up out of the hat like people pop out of Kirby when swallowed or up off a ledge when it's taken from them. And we've also seen that it has to land on the head to take control of a character.

Between the first two features, we have a suicide downside (Mario dies too) and a helpless moment in which the move can be punished after the opponent shakes him off. That prevents most abuse. All it leaves is an easy stock trade if Mario's at high percent.

The answer? That third part.
Mario's hat doesn't enable possession if its upper half hits. Or is it if it doesn't come to a halt on the character? Or both? It's not entirely clear right now but this allows for two possible restrictions that might make it harder to connect (and therefore abuse) the possession part of the move.

The first would be to have the hat have two hitboxes, one top and one bottom. If the top one connected, the move would do damage. If the bottom one connected, possession. If both connected, the top would take priority. Suddenly, you need to know exactly what height their head is going to be when the move connects. Will they jump? Will they duck? Will they fake you out and rush you down? Whatever the case, you now have to outwit them to land it.

And the second would be to have a momentum limit on the hat. Too much movement (in either direction) and it's gonna hit for damage. Want to possess them? You'll have to hit with the end of its arc. Want to escape it? Back away or move on forward. Either way, predictive and reactive spacing are suddenly key elements to its use.

It still doesn't make any sense to me. Characters that possess opponents have never been done in fighting games before, because it's a daft idea.

Let me see if I understand what you're proposing. You want a move that possesses opponents and are using Kirby's inhalation of opponents as a precedent, because it is superficially similar to this proposed attack in that it takes away control from the opponent. Let's say that Mario possesses the opponent on land, with the opponent mashing buttons the moment they're possessed. You gain control of the opponent for all of a couple of microseconds, giving you enough time to do... what exactly? Move to face a nearby ledge? Do a Smash attack at nothing? It has zero utility on land, whereas offstage it becomes broken. You throw your hat at somebody offstage and simply steer them into the abyss giving you an easy win if you have the stock lead. There is zero risk to Mario in this situation as he has a projectile that can grab opponents and make them do things they don't want to do, and would be impossible for certain characters to avoid. The similarities to Kirby's inhale stopped eons ago.

Apart from the fact that you obviously haven't considered balance in this idea at all, you forgot the most pressing question: exactly how would this be fun? Its only utility would be for braindead easy gimps offstage, as on land you wouldn't have enough time to do anything significant or useful with it. The actual possession time of opponents would be either too short to do anything significant, or too long to be considered fair. Meanwhile the opponent is dealing with having controls taken away from them for an undisclosed period of time, which I'm sure you've considered is MASSIVELY fun for them.

Your spiel about hitboxes demonstrates you don't have a clue about how they work. First of all the thing you're talking about has more to do with the timing of active frames, not hit box sizes. You say you have to "hit people at the end of its arc" to possess them, so that means it has a really short window of active frames during which it can possess someone. The hitbox size is irrelevant anyways since it's a projectile, and even projectiles with tiny hitboxes hit people very easily. What you're describing makes it so that Mario would easily be able to possess people by accident more often than deliberately, leading to Mario players "wasting" possessions by not reacting in time and forcing opponents to mash out, which frustrates both of the. Apart from the fact that it's not even how it works in Mario Odyssey (he simply throws his hat at an object and takes possession of it, no spacing required), your contrived idea isn't made any better with the inclusion of a "tiny directional hitbox". This is just poor planning through and through.

Wouldn't it be a better idea to have Mario only be able to take possession of objects in the stages themselves rather than opponents? That'd have much better potential, although it'd still be a nightmare to program and bug test.

 

[ryuu seika]

Let's say you throw a fireball and then land this. Now they're not dodging your fireball, you can potentially follow up on the momentary hitstun (depends on the escape lag of possession). Set a trap with items that they just aren't walking on? Dash into it. Want more air time for that smash ball while limiting their chance to grab it? Oh look, it pops you upwards. Stage hazards? Why not? It'd be a mostly casual thing but it wouldn't be meaningless.

Lack of similarity to Inhale you say? I'm not seeing your point. If Inhale had the ability to hit offstage opponents from further on stage there'd be little difference. Or would you rather talk F.L.U.U.D. and its ability to briefly manipulate the opponent's movement at a distance, while they're off stage, with massive potential reward and zero risk to the user?

And then your counterspiel about hitboxes. What are you even saying? If, as you suggest, random, unexpected hitbox connections are everywhere, how would that make unexpected possession likely when, in the very situation I laid out, this would mean that the upper hitbox would arbitrarily connect and negate the lower one almost every time.

Given that I stated nothing other than a more technically worded version of "if top of hat hits, damage, otherwise, if bottom hits, special effect", I don't even know what your issue is here. I didn't say anything about covering the whole top or bottom of the hat with a hitbox. I didn't even say anything about the size or shape of them. All I said was have one upper and one lower one to differentiate between hit zones in a logical fashion.

And object interactions? Tell me, were you a fan of Injustice? Did you own it? Did you play it at a friend's house? The two were very different gameplay experiences. As the owner, you know the majority of the stage interactions, giving you a wide array of options in combat that are often far from obvious to the newcomer.

It immediately puts players on an uneven playing field and is, therefore, in direct contradiction to Sakurai's idea of how the series should work. An idea that I don't necessarily agree with 100% but do appreciate the core of. The idea that anyone can just pick up the game and immediately be able to play. All the options are right there, pretty much spelt out for the player, without stupid input strings you need to learn and memorise, and it's then up to the player to make the most of them. Skill comes from the understanding and implementation of moves, not their execution or, in the case of stage specific interactions, the knowledge of their existence.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Ya know what, I'll chime in to this thread a bit.

Because I'm still hoping dearly that bright, cheery Mario would finally take over the Edgy, Angry Mario we have seen around since Brawl and 4, TBQH

Like, I dunno what's with this design choice that has me more find Smash Mario feel so "edgy" and needlessly grumpy. He has no peck of genuine excitement or joy in these games. What?

It sometimes has me feel that combined with all these "memes" and somewhat exaggerated interpretations of these characters has me find them more unappealing than their original counterparts. Sadly they are more or less bled in to their canon characters over the years ()

It really makes me miss Mario's happy-go-lucky attitude from Melee that didn't need to be compromised by being also competitive.

And what couldn't be more greater tribute to best Mario possibly yet than bringing Mario's cheery attitude to Smash-games for once?

Make it happen Nintendo, I'm tired of having to build unneeded grudge towards good Mario-players because they make Mario feel almost heartless. That's a bit too much 180 on his character.

 

[PiChuChu]

I think that FLUDD could just be replaced with Mario tossing Cappy around him a circle, sorta like a 'get off me' move. Or...

Cappy for Smash 5?

Spoiler

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Cappy confirmed for Player 2, Orange Luma Style.

This could be interesting for movesets.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

It's not Mario Odyssey that I want, it's Cappy possessing a dinosaur.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Nintendo Direct with big Mario Odyssey focus tonight.

 

[Arcadenik]

I would rather have Cappy possessing a T-Rex as an Assist Trophy.