Super Heroes Mafia: Day 7 ends! Nabe and Circus wins! Zen dies in end game!

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Dark Horse: If you feel so strongly that me and Beat are scum then why aren't you voting one of us?

Because rajam wagon is kicking off. Earlier, it was just for the sake of more discussion.

I don't know what you mean about Gheb doing the same thing. You have to show me.

#307-#314

Points something out, but dismisses it and says I could just play better.

 

[Rajam]

Page 11:

Why should we try to figure out "coded" messages of a player evidently not good at scum hunting?

Why did you post this?

Why shouldn't we? What does it matter if he's bad at scum hunting? If he's town, his opinion is still important, and if he's scum it's even more important to figure out what he's saying, since he'd just try to confuse us.

What do we gain from not figuring it out?

^^^
This. Didn't see a clear response through page 11

I don't really have a problem reading his posts, so what's the big deal?

What do you think RR tried to say with the picture of Darth Vader in the sea filling a bottle with water?

inb4 "ask RR". Don't evade this question

Beat, have you gotten anywhere with "decoding" RR?

This post gives me bad vibes. Can't explain why exactly, so I'll just ask: DH why did you ask this to BeatStick?

 

[Radical Fiction]

I am not going to evade your question. I am going to ignore it and respond with one of my own.

How ****ING stupid can you be? Your question accomplishes absolutely nothing as a simple reread already gives you EXACTLY what we think about RR. That's the only thing your question could POSSIBLY lead to. It looks like you're posting just to be posting.

I'm not in a good mood right now and I will say **** my scum list and Daykill you for being a moron as certain other events have convinced me that leaving morons around is a sure fire way to lose.





To everyone else, do you honestly believe a scum team would let Rajam rant unchecked?

 

[Radical Fiction]

Kuz, Dark Horse, and GLG are sitting on null tells that lean more toward scum than town.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

This post gives me bad vibes. Can't explain why exactly, so I'll just ask: DH why did you ask this to BeatStick?

It was quite simple: If he's gotten nowhere, then why is he pushing for it so hard?

 

[giraffelasergun]

Dark Horse: Scum
Rajam: Scum
Clown: Scum
X1: Scum
Hep: Scum
glg: Scum
Mori: Scum
Vandy: Suspicious
Gheb: lol
glg your reasoning makes no sense. If you don't say anything then you will never get anywhere. Explain now who it is you find scummy, why, and how it would have benefited at all for you to keep it a secret. This screams bs to me.

Ryu I don't know what your gathering post is saying.

I like how you make a post that calls almost everyone scum without any reasoning and then get mad at me for not posting reasoning as to who I had as scum. Anyway, my other pick right now would have to be HepAlien because a lot of her posts seem too nice and she didn't really call anyone out(if IRC) until I asked her who her top scum picks too be. I waited, because I wanted to see if her posts would remain nice or if she would actually fight for once. I didn't say anything because the game was still early and she might just not have had any scum picks because again she does not seem that aggressive.

Also, the majority of your posts that matter make no sense at all, especially this one and your third post in this thread.

To everyone else, do you honestly believe a scum team would let Rajam rant unchecked?

Rajam played just like this in FE so they might just let him play to the style that he did just play in a game where he flipped town. It is extremely worthless, but I don't see what makes him different then kuz.

 

[Radical Fiction]

Short answer: Kuz isn't dumb.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

k im loling @ rajam hopping a statement i made ahiele sgo and still elaborated recently nowth at he's under tpresuure he's willing to dig out oldd stuff and make a big dealout of it lololol

and ryker / swiss. i told all the people in the game that i think scum's between rajam, circus and nabe and i still think it'S ture. Plus im sstill suspicious enouh of zen so that's my top 4 scum pick todAy

 

[~ Gheb ~]

More will come tomowowrow when im sober thougj

 

[Circus]

lol Onix. lol drunk Gheb.

562 is so useless. Could definitely see myself voting for Rajam in the future, but I like where my vote is for now.

 

[HepAlien]

I like how you make a post that calls almost everyone scum without any reasoning and then get mad at me for not posting reasoning as to who I had as scum. Anyway, my other pick right now would have to be HepAlien because a lot of her posts seem too nice and she didn't really call anyone out(if IRC) until I asked her who her top scum picks too be. I waited, because I wanted to see if her posts would remain nice or if she would actually fight for once. I didn't say anything because the game was still early and she might just not have had any scum picks because again she does not seem that aggressive.

so i'm suspicious because i'm nice and not aggressive? who am i expected to be fighting?

To everyone else, do you honestly believe a scum team would let Rajam rant unchecked?

are the mafia constantly communicating with each other? i see no reason for why Rajam couldn't be acting independently here.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Hep, do you think they wouldn't have shut him up by now?\

EDIT: ****! I did it again.

 

[giraffelasergun]

so i'm suspicious because i'm nice and not aggressive? who am i expected to be fighting?

You were being too nice though, like I didn't notice you saying anything that could be considered hostile at all.

 

[HepAlien]

i don't know. it seems like people weren't really having a problem with him until recently. maybe they thought he was fine before because he was posting and no one seemed to care. in general i don't know how reliable the "he's acting so badly he must be good" argument is.

 

[Xivii]

Because rajam wagon is kicking off. Earlier, it was just for the sake of more discussion.

ok... then why aren't you voting for rajam????????

#307-#314

Points something out, but dismisses it and says I could just play better.

I didn't notice this. And I actually agree with you that this is pretty scummy.

 

[HepAlien]

got nothing going on so i decided to look back at some posts with fresh eyes. Zen, is X1 still most suspicious to you or has Gheb taken that spot? or am i way off on both counts?

 

[Xivii]

x1 is scum.

 

[HepAlien]

well that's pretty straightforward. main reason for believing so, so far? anything new since the beginning of the game?

 

[Xivii]

Mainly my 191. There's a bit more but I'd rather not add until Mori explains why he thinks x1 is scummy.

Why do you ask?

 

[HepAlien]

i guess i'll just tell you since not everyone responds well to people keeping things to themselves. i'm curious because looking back at the discussion between you and X1 (and BeatStick), and comparing it to what's been happening more recently, i'm getting the feeling that at least one between you, X1 and Gheb is mafia. i didn't really get the points against X1 before, and i still don't really, but i'm trying to reassess things. i kind of ignored X1 before since i didn't buy the case against him, but there isn't actually anything about him that makes me think he definitely isn't mafia, and he's been scarce for a while. i'm considering the possibility that he's trying to fly under the radar now, with all the new hubbub.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Still would like to hear concrete accusations. It's annoying how everybody tosses my name around but doesn't give me actually stuff to respond to.

 

[vanderzant]

Sorry for not posting, been busy as ****

 

[Rajam]

Page 12:

No, it doesn't.

No, I'm not. Please stop saying that I am.

I am simply saying that streamlining the way you scumhunt would be helpful for everyone. That is all I'm saying.

It was not clear that Rajam was busy or something. I put my vote on him because he had yet to say anything and my vote wasn't doing anything yet. I thought that, at best, it might provoke him into getting into the game sooner and, at worst, it would do nothing. Unless Mafia has changed a lot in the year that I've been away, this should not be considered strange. Especially not for me.

Hopefully the brevity of my responses will help to put a cap on this fruitless discussion. I would like to focus on something other than how exhausted you're making me the next time I open this thread.

Unvote

Why did you unvote here? If it was because I finally started to post, why didn't you immediatly voted kuz, who was/is as inactive as me at this point? I know you voted him later, but my point is: why not here? Wasn't your "motto" to pressure inactives?

Also, at the moment you started with all this issue of pressuring inactives, you mentioned me, kuz, ans someone else i don't remember right now, but why did you choose me first, or why did you choose only me? Because up to this point I've barely seen any pressure from you towards kuz (or any other inactive), it was plain me, and you've been using all this inactive pressure excuse to leave your scumhunt away...

Rajam, since you pointed it out, what do you think x1 not seeing your post means? Like, you said that it's hard to believe he didn't see it. So what does that mean to you about him?

Mmmm actually I don't remember why I added that, I guess it was mostly just an observation. Thinking about it, I think it was not due to skimming, because when ppl skim they ignore large post and short posts like mine with an emoticon becomes more propense to be noticed. Mmmm it could indicate X1 started to post before finish reading all the posts, which adds nothing but a null read in terms of this "X1 didn't saw my post". Still, my point on X1, plus the points which you mentioned about his meta and tells which I agree with, was mainly that he wasted an opportunity to pressure BeatStick, calling him dumb-town immediatly, and I don't think town would be so quick to call other dumb-town as town instead of putting some pressure and waiting a little more before clearing a town based on being dumb-town.

Some of his points are obvious without decoding. That's enough for me.



Already did.



I don't know if he's town and I never said it's OK to give him a free pass.



I am not making random statements.







Dumb questions are seriously stupid.



Not at the moment. I'm still figuring things out.

I don't get what's your stance on RR, specially because you say you think his restriction is fake. Could you answer in a clear way that fit all pieces together of what you've been saying about RR instead of a response that you know will cause people to ask the same again? Also why do you respond in a way that you know people won't get what you're saying and very likely will ask you the same thing again?

---

@Zen: About kuz, you said you were willing to give him some town points based on the fact that he was hydra'ing after receiving his role, and allegedly scum wouldn't do that. Nonetheless, so far I haven't seen any post neither from kuz or from the hydra counterpart. Wouldn't at least the other part of the hydra post? Who is he hydra'ing with anyways?

 

[Rajam]

@Gheb: Those were your responses to #464 btw:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12423250&postcount=464

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

DH, you missed my 535. You already answered one of the questions when Zen asked, so just the other one, thanks.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Raj, did you see my 520 yet in your read?

 

[X1-12]

skimmed this page only

Will post tonight or tomorrow.

 

[Xivii]

O_O Rajam you're so scummy.

 

[Beat!]

Rajam, do you not even skim through all the pages before doing a proper re-read? You still seem to be completely unaware of the votes on you, and some of your questions have already been asked iirc.

 

[Xivii]

Rajam <-> X1 -> Circus

We should definitely lynch one of these two today. And the other. And then Circus.

Mmmm actually I don't remember why I added that, I guess it was mostly just an observation. Thinking about it, I think it was not due to skimming, because when ppl skim they ignore large post and short posts like mine with an emoticon becomes more propense to be noticed. Mmmm it could indicate X1 started to post before finish reading all the posts, which adds nothing but a null read in terms of this "X1 didn't saw my post". Still, my point on X1, plus the points which you mentioned about his meta and tells which I agree with, was mainly that he wasted an opportunity to pressure BeatStick, calling him dumb-town immediatly, and I don't think town would be so quick to call other dumb-town as town instead of putting some pressure and waiting a little more before clearing a town based on being dumb-town.

This is scummy and furthers me into thinking Rajam and x1 are scummbuddies. Or at least that Rajam is scum.

#450

In this post Rajam agrees with me on the points I made against x1. First of all, no one else agrees with the points I made meaning they must not be very reliable (they are, but at least not from a non-zen perspective) yet Rajam agrees with every one of them and agrees that x1 is scum for them. This leads me to believe that:

A. Rajam is X1's bud and since he know's x1 is scum, any points made against x1 are legit from his perspecitve. So he agreed that these things are scummy because from his scumbud perspective, he knows they are even though it was just the start of the game and accordingly these were not nearly enough to call x1 scum on. So from this early attack on X1, Rajam decided to distance himself and agree with the points I made. What lead me to this is the fact that in this post (quoted above) Rajam responds to me asking what he agreed about one of the points I made and his answer is that he doesn't even know. So I think Rajam was just pointing stuff out in my case, even if it wasn't even scummy, just to get his distance on.

B. Rajam is scum and X1 is town (which he isn't, but we can play this scenario too). The same points above still apply to this, only Rajam wouldn't be distancing, he would simply be hopping on the train. Rajam has been pointing out little things on a few people like Gheb and Beat. It feels like he is forcing his scum hunt, which is what he is doing here with the points I made on x1. He agreed to my point without even knowing what I was saying...

The point I was making when I said that I think X1 really did know how much Rajam had posted was because I was inferring that they were scumbuddies for this. I was implying that it was a subtle form of distance. Scumbuds like to act like they don't know anything about eachother so no conclusions are drawn that they are in cahoots. So by X1 saying "He's [Rajam] said somthing?" even though it was obvious how much Rajam had posted (his hola post was just right above and x1 had just finished reading through), I was inferring that X1 was trying to play the clueless-about-my-buddy act.

Rajam, however did not realize what I was saying here yet he agreed to the point I was making. This is why I believe he was just agreeing to the case for the sake of hopping on the train. This shows that he wasn't putting any real thought into my point and how they really would equate to x1 being scum. If he was really putting thought into it, he would not have agreed to the point of him and X1 being scumbuddies. This is why I asked him why he agreed to it and his answer is such a stumble.

"Mmmm actually I don't remember why I added that, I guess it was mostly just an observation. Thinking about it, I think it was not due to skimming, because when ppl skim they ignore large post and short posts like mine with an emoticon becomes more propense to be noticed. Mmmm it could indicate X1 started to post before finish reading all the posts, which adds nothing but a null read in terms of this "X1 didn't saw my post". Still, my point on X1, plus the points which you mentioned about his meta and tells which I agree with, was mainly that he wasted an opportunity to pressure BeatStick, calling him dumb-town immediatly, and I don't think town would be so quick to call other dumb-town as town instead of putting some pressure and waiting a little more before clearing a town based on being dumb-town."

Now in the yellow he admits that he doesn't know why he pointed it out and that he "guesses" it was "mostly" just and observation. For one, his intentions couldn't have been mostly just and observation. It's either just an observation OR you think it's scummy. Here Rajam is leaving room for both. This is such a wishy washy statement, showing that Rajam is trying to hold onto his agreement that makes no sense while trying to look rational as well. Secondly, he is calling it mostly an observation yet he continues to try and reason for why it is scummy (which I colored in red). He is still being wishy washy about it, reasoning why it would be scummy and then calling it null.

Conclusion: This post is just Rajam stumbling to me. He thoughtlessly hopped on the x1 train agreeing with points for him being scum that were accordingly not valid. He likely did so to distance, but also with the possibility of just hopping on a wagon. He agreed to a point on x1 which was implying that he and x1 were scumbuddies, which shows that he was not really putting thought into how my points made x1 scum, and that he was simply agreeing to the case. When asked about why he agreed to the point and how it related to x1 being scum, he responded in a wishy washy way, trying to reason why, but coming up with nothing, and yet he still attemped to hold onto the agreement even though he couldn't produce any logic to the point.


Another thing about this post is the last line. He mentions the main point that he does agree with me on x1 being scum which is that he doesn't feel that town would declare someone else as town that early. Yet I did the very same thing and not just with Beat, but with Kuz, and others too! Rajam, however expresses no concern over my play. In fact, Rajam has pretty much been buddying me even though my town callouts have been much more severe than X1. Rajam's reasoning for X1 being scum is fake. fake. fake.

----------

@Zen: About kuz, you said you were willing to give him some town points based on the fact that he was hydra'ing after receiving his role, and allegedly scum wouldn't do that. Nonetheless, so far I haven't seen any post neither from kuz or from the hydra counterpart. Wouldn't at least the other part of the hydra post? Who is he hydra'ing with anyways?

They probably aren't even hydraing anymore. I dunno. I think the person he was going to hydra with is new at mafia, at least here. So no I don't think they would be posting.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Any other instances of Raj being 'flippy-floppy', in your eyes, or is it just that?

Npt much, though he was apparently still rereading.

 

[Rajam]

Page 13:

Rajam,what games have you seen in which the "I'll wait for later" scumtell has been used?

Many if not all of the games I've modded played in a chilean forum. They always used that as en excuse for not doing anything else (and they mostly always ended flipping scum)

GLG, do you have any scumpicks besides inacvtives?

Bean, at the time of when you had made that "I'll wait for later" post, hwy had you not tried to contribute discussion?

Mep, Rajam's 484 doesnt give off a good vibe. Aside form the part about the mulitple attacking, it mostly deals with meta, moreso newbie meta.

?? And how is newbie meta or meta usage scummy?

RR, got any better pics for your magic the gathering response?

---

I would, but its also still too early right now, and they could just change their playstyle anyway without me saying anything.

Basically, if I don't say anything and they still do what their doing what their doing now, then I'll call them out on it.

However, if I do call them out and their next post fixes the exact same thing I called them out, and so did all of their posts afterwards, it could be because I said something or they did legitimately change it and I just said it right before they changed their playstyle then I'd probably want to lynch them due to the change, even though I might not have caused the change.

Plus, if I do call them out on them it puts them in a situation where:
A)They change their playstyle, I think their scum for this.
B) They don't change their playstyle, I think their scum because they're doing something I think is a scum tell.

And I have no idea if that made sense.

Despite what people do after you call them scum, you can always mention past facts which are already done and can't be reverted. Also people call scum all the time, I don't know why you have to be an exception based on this excuse

Why? What caused your read to change?

At first I saw you as scummy based on when you said "Go check this game", because I saw adumbrodeus saying that a lot of times to reinforce his points in a certain bbr mafia game, but he ended up being mafia, so that's why I'm always suspicious of ppl who send others to check full games just to prove a point, because it's a waste of time which no one will do. Then, I saw your scumhunt by page 8 or 9 (page 9 iirc) and changed my mind about you, since it gave me good town vibes. I'll check later if you followed those questions nonetheless, but until then you have gave me several town signals and vibes as opposed to scum ones, so that's why I changed my perception.

---

Didn't get at all the MTG images by Red Ryu, and opposed to Gheb or other players, I'd like to understand all the pictures posted (I still don't get the Darth Vader in the sea)

 

[Circus]

Zen, there are actually some pretty compelling points in that case. I'd really like to see Rajam respond to it, but he's taking days to catch up on the thread and respond to old stuff. I don't understand why he's doing this. Rajam, if you see this post before you go back to catching up, could you please just finish up the last couple pages you have and post some general thoughts?

Kuz, I believe you promised you would catch up by last night. Would be cool if you would actually do it. What happened to the hydra thing?

 

[Radical Fiction]

I like Zen a lot more despite the way he played the beginning because his reads line up with mine.

Unvote Vote: X1

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Many if not all of the games I've modded played in a chilean forum. They always used that as en excuse for not doing anything else (and they mostly always ended flipping scum)

Okay.

Now, as I said earlier, can you show me a link? (If it's in chilean, just show me where it is and I'll use google translator.

?? And how is newbie meta or meta usage scummy?

I found it funny that all of your cases had to do with just meta (which can be convinient), instead of anything else. You can use meta to whip up a case on anyone in a second.

 

[vanderzant]

Catching up now. Expect this from me for the next week and a bit.

And these things are worth pointing out because _____ ? Yes, my initial read on Zen was scum and now I have bigger suspects because - well - I had nothing to pursue Zen with. Since when is that a problem?



Or maybe I have and now I've changed my mind about it?

I was asking you when you decided that Zen wasn't scum anymore. I wanted to know if there was a reason, or if your initial suspicion was just being opportunist. Your play was all bark no bite, that's what my problem is. It's impossible to tell if you actually thought Zen was scum when you showed no reasoning. You've just felt off to me.

 

[vanderzant]

You think Vand is scum?

Oh god >.>

uh...wow. i don't know if i should be flattered or insulted by this. do you find me threatening?

i think it's a little soon to be deciding something like that already. i will say that, so far, i have a bad feeling about Zen and Gheb, respectively, but that's really just based on the people that I have been talking lately. lots of people are unknowns for me right now.

Why and elaborate with specifics please.

Not a fan of Rajam's wall of catching up (which is mainly him commentating on things while asking off questions that serve no purpose) and when he gives his reads he doesn't explain most.

Really want RR to break his restriction. He's being useless and just facepalming at stuff instead of trying to show what he thinks is scummy.

 

[vanderzant]

Circus, what does the term 'background noise' mean? You've put it in your paragraph describing your scumpicks; are these more scumpicks, or just people being quiet?

Is there a case for RFscum in your opinion? It's unclear what reason you have to want to lynch RF. Er, that you're 'willing' to lynch RF for.

Would you classify your previous posts in the thread as scumhunting? If not, will you be scumhunting in the foreseeable future?

Don't like the continual questioning I'm seeing from Nabe. He didn't respond to Circus' answers which to me seems like he didn't really care about the answers he got. He's done this continuously and I'd like to see the fruit of his labour so to speak.

I don't know about Ryker, I'm more interested in Swiss' input tbh, but if Swiss thinks X1 is off then that's probably good enough for me.

Agree with Zen about Rajam being pretty fake.

Very unsure of X1 because he actually hasn't posted much. I thought the way he questioned me earlier felt off, considering it was over something insignificant like a RVS question. Guy was trying hard to pressure but ended up failing miserably, using really short sentences/posts that just don't seem town, coupled with his inactivity makes me want to see him go.

So Zen, you want Rajam first? I'm fine either way. Though why'd you mention Circus as a 3rd play when you didn't mention him in your post? You vs him was tedious but I don't find it scummy from his end.

I want to see Kuz replaced.

I want RR to step up his game.

Unvote Vote Rajam

 

[Radical Fiction]

Both of you have said you're fine with either, so vote X1 for me. I feel we'll get much more out of it.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Zen, you say you don't like your own points about X1? Were you convinced of that by other players, or have you always felt they weren't correct?

DH, please clarify: You didn't realize before I asked you that question that Raj was still rereading? Or are you saying that you doubt that to be the case?

Vand, are you asking for my scumreads? Otherwise I'm not understanding your meaning?