Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[OptimisticStrifer]

I think Isaac is pretty much done for this season of DLC coming forward. I see no way they reverse his fate for these 5 forthcoming characters.

After that, if there is extra DLC (namely extra seasons), however... Isaac is going to be one of the last real "survivors" left. If we get a Season 2 of DLC (I think it's p damn likely), no way Spring Man stays just an Assist Trophy character. There's a chance the same is true of Skull Kid?

Why not Isaac? Why not us? Isaac is one of the most popular Nintendo-owned characters not playable in Smash that has unique elements that are super inherent to add.

The time is too soon to give up. Yes, we should probably consider the next year plus "dead time" for Isaac getting added... but that never made us defer before. We kept marching on. Right we can lay down and bleed a little, but we're going to get up and keep going. If we stay positive and kind and optimistic and vocal, things can change.

There are no limits.

Why would they promote Isaac? I'm sure the could make a lot more money off Springman, or Shadow, or someone else. Isaac belongs to a dead series. There's no money there, obviously! /s

 

[Confirmation]

Wow I can't believe all this evidence ended up being nothing more than coincidence.

I mean, aside from the Rathalos tweet all the evidence was legit. Everyone just thought Isaac having a presence was for playable, not for an AT.

Man though what a prick, digging up month-old posts to rub it in. It's a sad person who purposefully causes sadness in others

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I mean, he probably should. Overall the game looks great and is packed with content far above previous games or other series in the genre. It will perform well critically and commercially and seems like it will be embraced by the fanbase to a greater extent than the past two titles. He did a great job, as he usually does. Ultimate looks incredibly solid, and let's not forget the past reveals; he did indeed take into account our subset of the audience.

This wasn't as hype as the August Direct, true enough, but the fanbase whipping itself up into a frenzy, in part due to Mr. Grinch, is no small part of the backlash now. Plus the normal backlash that always comes with the realignment of hope that comes from the full roster reveal.

And I say this as someone who after a particularly turbulent ride, had their most-wanted character deconfirmed both for the base game, and likely for DLC as well.

But if he closes his eyes, he's never going to see what the fans actually WANT. And that's a problem since he's heading a series largely based off of pleasing fans.

 

[SvartWolf]

at the very least they could have updated it's assist moveset, but we are with touchy touchy hands again...

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

Thoughts on the direct in general

As much as I hate the final newcomer trailer being Ken and Incinroar. I do have to say that both of them do at least look to play extremely well and are probably a lot of fun. Ken in particular, to me looks like someone I would main. Given how much I enjoyed Ryu's play style in 4. I always hated how slow he was though. And Ken having several things that set him apart really does show that the echo concept, if expanded upon with DLC (Say for a shadow promotion) does have a ton of potential. Ken is an echo, but he feels so fresh I don't care.

Saving Isaac was cruel. Should have just gotten him out of the LONG before now. I cried the other day, but I didn't cry today. I walked in knowing that the potential existed. I hated the fact that the worst could happen. However. I will remain firm in a promotion being a possible avenue. Giving up now will be the end of us, and the end of golden sun. It's only truly over when we stop caring. So I'm gonna keep on caring. It's hard, insanely hard. For the first time in my life I truly understood how Waluigi fans feel.

World of light looks insanely epic. Very fun, and most importantly, worth a while. Which is the first time in a long time i've been able to say that about a smash single player. That cut scene was one of the best cut scenes in video game history honestly. That vocal track...OH GOD I NEEEEEED it. Also with Shulk getting that vision, me and my Xenoblade mutual's have tons of new things to s*** post about now XD

Speaking of my xenoblade mutuals. Rex is gonna be a dlc character. I'd bet my life on it. That costume more or less confirms as much for me. They're currently planning out the fighters, and if they had no intention of making Rex a playable character in any capacity they'd have left that costume, that mind you looks very finished, in the base game. As is it's only a bonus for buying the pass early.

Planty the carnivorous plant was so ridiculous that I couldn't believe it when I saw it. He is utterly and obscenely stupid and ridiculous. I have to wonder where when or why they came to the decision to do that. If I had to imagine, it was due to Sakurai saying. "Screw it, let's see if we can make a playable character out of a plant" and they did it just to prove that it could be done. Without stopping to ask if it should be done. As for my thoughts on him as a playable character. Well at least he looks very fun to play. That's about all he has.

Overall. It was a good direct. Just packed with many questionable things. If world of light wasn't as cool looking as it was it would not have been good. I'd Probably rate the direct a 7/10

 

[Kalaam]

at the very least they could have updated it's assist moveset, but we are with touchy touchy hands again...

Well at least he has variations of it now. Grabs, launches.
Hell, if the reason 2 was true that would just be repurpose of his grabs until dlc. I wouldn't bet on it though.

 

[Deleted member]

Remember though, it seems like DLC for this game was planned from the get-go rather then after the game finishes. Hence why SpringMan is an assist and Rex is a mii costume. If Isaac is an AT, it means that he was never planned as a fighter at all and you should be happy he got SOMETHING at least

 

[SonicLink125]

at the very least they could have updated it's assist moveset, but we are with touchy touchy hands again...

At the very least, Isaac doesn't even touch his sword. So those who don't know Isaac will be like, "Huh? What kind of sorcery is this guy doing?!? Making a mini Master Hand?!?" Wished he at least used some Earth Psynergy. Eh...

 

[TempestSurge]

At this point, I fear Sakurai sees Isaac as an unrealizable character who will probably remain stuck in the snowglobe like Lyn and Waluigi. He chooses to rep Isaac, not by his earth magic, but by giant gimmicky psynergy hands.

Isaac can't even become playable in the Ultimate Smash of fan favorites and he only grows more older as the smash cycles go on. Even in a hypothetical scenario where Isaac's in Smash 6, maybe Ike or Lucas gets cut that game, I'll still feel completely crappy. I really wanted Isaac to be cemented on that mural in the game where, 'Everyone is Here!' all vets returning is probs never going to be a thing again.

With that said, Ikesaac is not dead. I'll play with all assist trophies on and spend and hours battling the rng of 59 assist trophies if I have to for my Ike and Isaac shot.

Honestly a part of me knew that the first reveal would determine everything, Isaac had to be revealed first or Grinch leak was dead, he had to be fighter 69 for it all to make sense, so when I saw the boxing ring, it was over. I tuned out rest of the direct, I just felt dead inside, obviously Isaac was an assist and I couldn't even stomach watching that. Although after the initial shock of box theory being a literal thing, I feel more cathartic than anything. Just a relief to no longer have to stress about Isaac's fate. If anything I'm more pissed at Verge's John Cena gif.

Also Rathalos tweet was still a Golden Sun reference. I said it wouldn't make sense to reference a character not in the game, well Isaac's in the game. I just didn't think Sakurai would make us wait till the final direct to shown off an assist trophy. That's like being invested in the relationship of two characters on a show for seasons only for them to finally get together in the series finale and all they do is hold hands and walk off into the sunset. Talk about not worth the long wait.

Jeez I'm never wrong in my speculations but I guess I was simply too blinded by the awesome dream of Isaac in Smash.

 

[ItsYio]

Well honestly, I'm pretty content with the direct, it wasn't as hype as the last one but it was decent. When I saw Isaac appear as an AT I was like "Aw! That's a shame, but he looks good and he's got more moves!" I think all of us as Issac fans kinda feel that way right now.

But! I'm also looking at it like this: Isaac is in, he's got music from golden sun, he's got a 3d model, AND a voice actress; so wouldn't it be easier for Sakurai and his team to upgrade him to playable? They're already familiar with the Golden Sun series, so it wouldn't be as difficult as looking up references for a brand new third party DLC character (at least that's what I think)

 

[Weeman]

But if he closes his eyes, he's never going to see what the fans actually WANT. And that's a problem since he's heading a series largely based off of pleasing fans.

And one also heavily rooted in commercial appeal. Compromises have to be made with a game representing as many video games as this one.
As much as it pains me to say it, Golden Sun is ultimately a very small franchise that never really took off in popularity, and while that isn't a completely determining factor for characters not getting in, it will always be a relevant point.
It's not good to take it personal, Nintendo is a company after all, and Sakurai has to make compromises to at least try and represent everyone, which is why having his assist trophy updated like this isn't an insult, but a way for the developers to show they know we want these characters.
I mean i doubt the man loves Pokémon that much to think we need more, but a good relationship with GameFreak is a huge thing for Nintendo.

 

[GoldenSunIsAlive]

World of light.. without golden sun... bleh.. whatever. Sakurai does what he wants and not what we want, does voting even matter.

 

[N3ON]

But if he closes his eyes, he's never going to see what the fans actually WANT. And that's a problem since he's heading a series largely based off of pleasing fans.

I think Isaac being reinstated as an AT is acknowledgement of a requested character. I mean he's from a series without an instalment post-Smash-4, and who was previously cut. Why would he come back (with additional utility) if not from popularity? Krystal, Shovel Knight, Bomberman, Knuckles, Zero... these are all popular characters that got added, but not all of them can wind up playable.

We only got six non-echoes this time. Half of them were very popular characters among our type of audience. Two thirds if you include Simon, which I wouldn't, but some do. He did listen, but not everyone is going to make the cut.

 

[FlawedAI]

At this point, I fear Sakurai sees Isaac as an unrealizable character who will probably remain stuck in the snowglobe like Lyn and Waluigi. He chooses to rep Isaac, not by his earth magic, but by giant gimmicky psynergy hands.

Isaac can't even become playable in the Ultimate Smash of fan favorites and he only grows more older as the smash cycles go on. Even in a hypothetical scenario where Isaac's in Smash 6, maybe Ike or Lucas gets cut that game, I'll still feel completely crappy. I really wanted Isaac to be cemented on that mural in the game where, 'Everyone is Here!' all vets returning is probs never going to be a thing again.

Yeah, it really is a shame that after everything we've done, Isaac is still only represented by hands. No Jupiter Psynergy, no summons, but big hands. It's just strange to feel this way about what happened. I was so sure about it, but Verge was right, Isaac is an Assist, and Golden Sun is dead. What a day.

 

[Lonodel]

Pirahna plant is our punishment for people wanting waluigi so much

 

[TappyBat]

Well at least he has variations of it now. Grabs, launches.
Hell, if the reason 2 was true that would just be repurpose of his grabs until dlc. I wouldn't bet on it though.

he's not dlc. why take a AT and make them dlc when they could've been dlc to begin with? ain't happening

 

[THE TemporaryFool]

Can we just take a moment to appreciate the fact that they have been working hard for the past 2 or more years? Especially with the already included 74 fighters. They are trying to please us. Could wait for the next game though (if any).

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

And one also heavily rooted in commercial appeal. Compromises have to be made with a game representing as many video games as this one.
As much as it pains me to say it, Golden Sun is ultimately a very small franchise that never really took off in popularity, and while that isn't a completely determining factor for characters not getting in, it will always be a relevant point.
It's not good to take it personal, Nintendo is a company after all, and Sakurai has to make compromises to at least try and represent everyone, which is why having his assist trophy updated like this isn't an insult, but a way for the developers to show they know we want these characters.
I mean i doubt the man loves Pokémon that much to think we need more, but a good relationship with GameFreak is a huge thing for Nintendo.

Maybe I could believe that more if Sakurai ever talked about Golden Sun. Perhaps show regret or even indication that he's considered Isaac.

 

[Weeman]

Maybe I could believe that more if Sakurai ever talked about Golden Sun. Perhaps show regret or even indication that he's considered Isaac.

Going out of their way to make a new model with unique moves and voice isn't?

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I think Isaac being reinstated as an AT is acknowledgement of a requested character. I mean he's from a series without an instalment post-Smash-4, and who was previously cut. Why would he come back (with additional utility) if not from popularity? Krystal, Shovel Knight, Bomberman, Knuckles, Zero... these are all popular characters that got added, but not all of them can wind up playable.

We only got six non-echoes this time. Half of them were very popular characters among our type of audience. Two thirds if you include Simon, which I wouldn't, but some do. He did listen, but not everyone is going to make the cut.

If he wasn't closing his eyes, he'd realize that fan's don't see assists as an acceptable consolation prize, and in facts is more like condemnation to never be playable

 

[TappyBat]

World of light.. without golden sun... bleh.. whatever. Sakurai does what he wants and not what we want, does voting even matter.

apparently not

 

[Johnknight1]

While getting swept up in leaks is fine (I love reading leaks but hate leaks; it's the ultimate catch 22), I think we need to stop accepting leaks are real without gigantic substantial evidence that is certified such as the ESRB leak or Ryu/Roy data mining.

I think by the time a likely Season 2 of DLC winds around, optimism should be picking up.

Just remember to stay optimistic... but don't base your optimism in any leaks. Keep your optimism grounded in a positive and kind spirit and mind.

Be the Golden Sun, not the Fading Star.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

welp ya win some ya lose some imma help billy with spreading golden sun around its better then doing nothing and being sad about it

 

[FlawedAI]

If he wasn't closing his eyes, he'd realize that fan's don't see assists as an acceptable consolation prize, and in facts is more like condemnation to never be playable

Exactly. I think the Assist Trophies should be for characters like Thowmp, the Hand & Flies, and other characters who can't become fighters (though if ****ing Piranha Plant is in, anyone can be in, it seems), and using it for characters with real potential like Isaac, Shovel Knight, Lyn, Shadow, etc. is a massive waste.

 

[Weeman]

Pirahna plant is our punishment for people wanting waluigi so much

Maybe he really did put Waluigi in.

 

[xAquaCrystal]

Hi Golden Sun fans. I just wanted to give my condolences from a shadow fan. Seeing our characters becoming an AT after waiting for this long really feels like a slap in the face on top of that a plant was able to be a fighter instead. I really thought Isaac had a chance because he is so highly requested but sadly I was wrong. I really do hope one day our characters will be playable. Stay strong

 

[LuminoZero]

So, possibly silly, but PapaGenos said something in his prediction video yesterday that I'd missed.

Rathalos is an AT, but he's also a Stage Boss, something that has never happened before. The ability of Isaac to be both an AT and playable is there. Never give up hope!

 

[N3ON]

If he wasn't closing his eyes, he'd realize that fan's don't see assists as an acceptable consolation prize, and in facts is more like condemnation to never be playable

Yes I'm sure all the Isaac fans would be much happier if Isaac was totally absent.

Everyone knows how much Isaac fans enjoyed his treatment in Smash 4. Much better than Brawl.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Gooing or their way to make a new model with unique moves and voice isn't?

All that indicates to me that he thinks Isaac and Golden Sun's potential only goes as far as an Assist to the actual fighters.

 

[Xenigma]

Well, now that the initial shock has passed, I've started the task of moving forward. I took a brief nap, which helped immensely given I didn't get any sleep last night. I've started reconsidering the reveals in their intended context instead of compared to the dream scenario that was the Grinch Leak. I've given some serious thought as to what the next best steps are for Isaac fans, for Smash fans, and for myself. To be honest, I'm already feeling much better than I did a few short hours ago.

<Rant incoming!>

So Isaac is an assist trophy, and therefore not to be playable at least through the beginning of 2020. It's not what we wanted, but we all knew it was a possibility. Instead of dwelling on that negative, here's some positives to focus on:

- We got Isaac back into Smash, and in an upgraded form too. Considering he was a complete no-show in SSB4, that's a significant bone being thrown by the development team and a sign that our ballot votes did matter. Further, judging by Matthew there will be Golden Sun spirits, so we've got a little to look forward to on that front as well.

- The Ultimate roster is still ridiculous. It's easy to take it for granted at this point, but remember that we have literally every veteran fighter on the roster, plus two huge fan choices in Ridley and K. Rool, the immensely popular Inklings and Isabelle, a number of new clones, and even a couple of Castlevania characters! It may be the weakest entry now in terms of new fighters, but I don't think there's any contesting that this is the best roster we've ever had, and possibly ever will have.

- DLC is still a thing. Okay, so Isaac is virtually guaranteed to not be a part of the first year of DLC. We're still getting five more brand-new fighters via DLC, and, while I know the choice of Piranha Plant stings, at least it's a freebie on top of those other five. Further, while it's obviously too early to say for sure, there's the possibility that we could see another season of DLC after that, and it's entirely possible such an extension could include fighters that were passed over like the ATs.

Finally, if there's one thing I've learned for sure this reveal season, it's that our voices do matter. There's no way Ridley or K. Rool would be playable if their fanbases hadn't been loud and proud for years leading up to Ultimate, and it's entirely possible Isaac would have still been a no show. Instead of accepting defeat and shying away from the game, we need Isaac fans to buckle in and get ready for the long haul. Here's some simple things we can do now:

- Buy the game and the Fighters Pass. If you don't want the game now, so be it, but if we want a chance at more DLC beyond what we've heard of, we have to make Ultimate a massive success, enough that Nintendo will want to milk this cow as long as they can. Money talks!

- Support your content creators. People like Billybae10K and StoicSeraph have already been doing great work, and we need to do our part to share that content and even create more if you are so inclined. This is especially important for Isaac because we need to have tangible proof for Nintendo that there is a lot of passion out there for Golden Sun they can potentially profit off of, and again, money talks!

- Consider thanking Nintendo and Sakurai. This is the hardest one, especially right now, but I think we should all seriously consider it. We've gone from Golden Sun being cut from Smash for all intents and purposes to again having a notable presence. Take this at face value: Sakurai and company brought back Isaac in response to fan demand. Just because it isn't exactly what we wanted doesn't mean we didn't get anything, and now is a great time to say that we appreciate the gesture and to also remind them that there is still a lot of demand out there for more.

- Never, ever give up. Ridley fans didn't get him in the game by admitting he was too big. K. Rool fans didn't get him in the game by admitting he wasn't relevant. They got their characters because they persisted, even when the rest of the world told them they shouldn't. Same goes for Geno and Banjo: obviously neither is confirmed yet (and Geno is arguably deconfirmed by his spirit), but I think both remain very strong possibilities for those five DLC character slots because they too have had passionate fanbases over the years. Now we stand strong as the largest fanbase for a currently non-playable character on Smashboards, and have a lot of momentum across the greater Smash community to boot. Instead of letting that wither on the vine, we should do what we can to preserve that spirit and ensure our voices continue to be heard. We didn't give up after Brawl, and we didn't give up after SSB4, so why should we give up now? If anything, we should work to become that next success story.

It's going to be difficult to stay focused, to be sure. Realistically, we're looking at SSB6 for our next real chance at playability, and that's a difficult thought when we've already struck out three times. If we are willing to start now, though, maybe we can actually prevail. Otherwise, well, I guess Golden Sun will just stay dead, and I'm not ready to accept that fate.

 

[Burigu]

Ok first of all I am sorry for Isaac's fate. I really liked the idea of him playable and I was really excited to try him out.

That said I can't believe there are people "thanking" Grinch leak for "giving hope", really? Nope he played with people and fooled most, with the leak's author for rising your hopes up for nothing, yeah in the end you would have ended dissapointed with or without leak but the blow was even harder because of this person. You shouldn't be thanking him or her. This person was probably laughing at you the whole time.

You have to understant that Sakurai and his team can only develop so many characters, there are always some left out, I don't really think they spend time looking on the internet for a fandom to mess up with.
Why develop a product if you can't have at least some liberty to introduce at least one REALLY unexpected character?

Don't forget what happened with Sakurai and Waluigi's fanbase.

 

[Blue7113]

Well that was underwhelming. Just one punch in the stomach after the other.

 

[StrawHatX]

Yes I'm sure all the Isaac fans would be much happier if Isaac was totally absent.

Everyone knows how much Isaac fans enjoyed his treatment in Smash 4. Much better than Brawl.

I’m definitely much happier with a 1/59 chance Isaac will pop out of a trophy and run around slapping things for ten seconds while I think about how much better he would be as a playable character. Not really. I don’t even play with assist trophies on, but of course that’s just me. I’m happy for other Isaac fans who do enjoy that.

 

[ItsYio]

In my opinion we as a whole should agree on voting for Isaac on the next smash ballot, like some people have said, we can't be divided between voting for Felix or Mathew, we should all collectively vote Isaac to get the attention of the smash bros team. To let them see how passionate we really are about him!

To all those saying they're not gonna buy the game anymore cause of this, I can see why you'd do that, and personally I see nothing wrong with it tbh. Just remember! Voting on the ballot is free, so if you don't get the game please vote for Isaac when the ballot comes around :D

C'mon y'all chin up, I know we can definitely do this! (๑•̀ㅂ•́)و✧

 

[N3ON]

I’m definitely much happier with a 1/59 chance Isaac will pop out of a trophy and run around slapping things for ten seconds while I think about how much better he would be as a playable character. Not really. I don’t even play with assist trophies on, but of course that’s just me. I’m happy for other Isaac fans who do enjoy that.

1/59 is better than 0/59. Or the alternative, 0/74.

But if you'd rather the zeroes, keep the items off. Then you can pretend he's not in the game, as you seem to prefer.

 

[Weeman]

All that indicates to me that he thinks Isaac and Golden Sun's potential only goes as far as an Assist to the actual fighters.

Well that may very welll be. Again Smash isn't a project just decided by passion, compromises have to be made. The roster is already 75 or so characters big, any of which would cause an uproar if removed. Given infinite time and resources i'm sure he'd like to make everyone happy, but it is what it is.

 

[TappyBat]

All that indicates to me that he thinks Isaac and Golden Sun's potential only goes as far as an Assist to the actual fighters.

this pretty much

 

[KMDP]

Golden Sun is ultimately a very small franchise that never really took off in popularity, and while that isn't a completely determining factor for characters not getting in, it will always be a relevant point.

Golden Sun did take off in popularity.

It's just that that popularity was majorly squandered during the DS era.

 

[N3ON]

Golden Sun did take off in popularity.

It's just that that popularity was majorly squandered during the DS era.

Though it's not like he'd get in 4 or Ultimate if there had been no DS entry either.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Well that may very welll be. Again Smash isn't a project just decided by passion, compromises have to be made. The roster is already 75 or so characters big, any of which would cause an uproar if removed. Given infinite time and resources i'm sure he'd like to make everyone happy, but it is what it is.

But if he truly cared about the fans and was listening to them, he'd 'compromise' someone like Piranha Pant out. Or maybe dedicate less time to echo fighters.