Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Nimbostratus]

Honestly, Im not going to believe Isaac can still be DLC. A AT has never became playable in the same game before, and I doubt Sakurai will male the exception for Isaac.

The situation is pretty bad, don't get me wrong, but saying "never" seems a bit dramatic considering we have exactly one game worth of precedent to look at. I'm not sure just looking at Smash 4 DLC in comparison is enough to make rules out of patterns.
I really hope Nintendo understands that the fans are ok with NPC updgrades. It's not like it hasn't happened in games before. Seriously, who says, "Ahh man, I really wanted Isaac and some other characters in, but since they're already in the game in some form, guess I'd rather have Bubsy now." Literally no one thinks this way, as they only give up when they set their own rules as to what is possible.
Again, I don't think it looks good for this first set if the five characters have already been decided, but who knows after that? Why can't a character be both an Assist and playable? A lot of them practically have full movesets at this point, anyways. There's lots of ways to handle it- no one cares if one AT is turned off, or just make it not appear when that character is in the battle (probably the more elegant solution). Heck, why couldn't any playable character also be summonable by Assist Trophy? No, like really. If no one is playing Mario, why not allow me to summon Mario to briefly help me? That would be awesome. And if someone for some reason doesn't like playable character crowding the AT summon list, just give the ability to turn certain characters off. Done, and everyone is happy.
I just really hope Nintendo sees the potential in these characters and doesn't limit themselves to others for no good reason.

 

[Plato Xaiver]

The situation is pretty bad, don't get me wrong, but saying "never" seems a bit dramatic considering we have exactly one game worth of precedent to look at. I'm not sure just looking at Smash 4 DLC in comparison is enough to make rules out of patterns.
I really hope Nintendo understands that the fans are ok with NPC updgrades. It's not like it hasn't happened in games before. Seriously, who says, "Ahh man, I really wanted Isaac and some other characters in, but since they're already in the game in some form, guess I'd rather have Bubsy now." Literally no one thinks this way, as they only give up when they set their own rules as to what is possible.
Again, I don't think it looks good for this first set if the five characters have already been decided, but who knows after that? Why can't a character be both an Assist and playable? A lot of them practically have full movesets at this point, anyways. There's lots of ways to handle it- no one cares if one AT is turned off, or just make it not appear when that character is in the battle (probably the more elegant solution). Heck, why couldn't any playable character also be summonable by Assist Trophy? No, like really. If no one is playing Mario, why not allow me to summon Mario to briefly help me? That would be awesome. And if someone for some reason doesn't like playable character crowding the AT summon list, just give the ability to turn certain characters off. Done, and everyone is happy.
I just really hope Nintendo sees the potential in these characters and doesn't limit themselves to others for no good reason.

Here’s the thing, there is definitely a disconnect between Hardcore and Casual fans, and between Demographics

Golden Sun, sadly, is a dead series. Dark dawn wasn’t a bad game, but it didn’t sell well due to its poor release timing. We need a new Golden Sun game to make the series relevant again? until then we’re fundamentally screwed. We’re gonna get neglected until we make a stand, Isaac has no selling point for casual fans who see him as a “literal who” same deal goes to Geno sadly...

 

[TappyBat]

The situation is pretty bad, don't get me wrong, but saying "never" seems a bit dramatic considering we have exactly one game worth of precedent to look at. I'm not sure just looking at Smash 4 DLC in comparison is enough to make rules out of patterns.
I really hope Nintendo understands that the fans are ok with NPC updgrades. It's not like it hasn't happened in games before. Seriously, who says, "Ahh man, I really wanted Isaac and some other characters in, but since they're already in the game in some form, guess I'd rather have Bubsy now." Literally no one thinks this way, as they only give up when they set their own rules as to what is possible.
Again, I don't think it looks good for this first set if the five characters have already been decided, but who knows after that? Why can't a character be both an Assist and playable? A lot of them practically have full movesets at this point, anyways. There's lots of ways to handle it- no one cares if one AT is turned off, or just make it not appear when that character is in the battle (probably the more elegant solution). Heck, why couldn't any playable character also be summonable by Assist Trophy? No, like really. If no one is playing Mario, why not allow me to summon Mario to briefly help me? That would be awesome. And if someone for some reason doesn't like playable character crowding the AT summon list, just give the ability to turn certain characters off. Done, and everyone is happy.
I just really hope Nintendo sees the potential in these characters and doesn't limit themselves to others for no good reason.

Saks only cares about relevant things that are still alive we are not. Hence we won’t be playable

 

[Plato Xaiver]

Saks only cares about relevant things that are still alive we are not. Hence we won’t be playable

This, relevancy seems to be a big factor...older and niche characters are doomed it seems.

 

[skydogc]

Yo Isaac bros, I'm here from the Geno thread again.
Real sorry your main man ended up as an AT. That was a gut punch to me too (Isaac became my second most wanted).

I'm hoping someway that he'll become DLC.

Fingers crossed that we'll eventually get to do a Geno vs Isaac tournament one day.

 

[Ridleyridster]

I love you guys. Always have and always will.

If there's another ballot, I know who I'm voting for.

 

[Nimbostratus]

Not sure why I'm getting quoted on these posts as that post just said that Nintendo shouldn't limit themselves for no reason, not that Isaac is gonna be playable, but I guess I'll respond anyways.

Here’s the thing, there is definitely a disconnect between Hardcore and Casual fans, and between Demographics

Golden Sun, sadly, is a dead series. Dark dawn wasn’t a bad game, but it didn’t sell well due to its poor release timing. We need a new Golden Sun game to make the series relevant again? until then we’re fundamentally screwed. We’re gonna get neglected until we make a stand, Isaac has no selling point for casual fans who see him as a “literal who” same deal goes to Geno sadly...

I agree that an AT character like say, Shovel Knight, might have more relevancy and casual appeal than an Isaac and therefore might be more likely upgrade then him, but Isaac would sell perfectly fine. Plenty of "casuals" would just buy him to fill the roster or if they think he looks cool, and there are plenty of fans still left. Reactions to thing like the Rathalos Tweet, Grinch Leak, and his AT reveal show that. Isaac dominates polls, and while they may be biased, it's also just as arbitrary to ignore them and assume to know what all casuals want.

Saks only cares about relevant things that are still alive we are not. Hence we won’t be playable

Sakurai does often prioritize relevance, true. He's said as much. But to act like its a permanent barrier is just a defeatist comment. is proof that non-relevant characters can get in if the fan support (specifically hardcore fans, even) is there.

Again, I never said that Isaac is going to be playable in Ultimate down the road. In fact, I don't think it's going to happen. I'm just commenting on the idea of ATs being "unpromotable". I'm a little worried that a completely defeatist attitude will give developers the idea that there isn't interest for these characters.

 

[StrawHatX]

Maybe Sakurai just hates Camelot and that’s why he won’t put Isaac as playable. It would also explain why he’d pick a piranha plant as a new playable Mario character and not Waluigi.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I just want answers....

Please...

 

[TappyBat]

Not sure why I'm getting quoted on these posts as that post just said that Nintendo shouldn't limit themselves for no reason, not that Isaac is gonna be playable, but I guess I'll respond anyways.



I agree that an AT character like say, Shovel Knight, might have more relevancy and casual appeal than an Isaac and therefore might be more likely upgrade then him, but Isaac would sell perfectly fine. Plenty of "casuals" would just buy him to fill the roster or if they think he looks cool, and there are plenty of fans still left. Reactions to thing like the Rathalos Tweet, Grinch Leak, and his AT reveal show that. Isaac dominates polls, and while they may be biased, it's also just as arbitrary to ignore them and assume to know what all casuals want.


Sakurai does often prioritize relevance, true. He's said as much. But to act like its a permanent barrier is just a defeatist comment. is proof that non-relevant characters can get in if the fan support (specifically hardcore fans, even) is there.

Again, I never said that Isaac is going to be playable in Ultimate down the road. In fact, I don't think it's going to happen. I'm just commenting on the idea of ATs being "unpromotable". I'm a little worried that a completely defeatist attitude will give developers the idea that there isn't interest for these characters.

Donkey Kong isn’t dead though golden sun is

 

[Plato Xaiver]

I just want answers....

Please...

Simple, relevany seems matter somewhat.

Game and Watch and ROB have places in Nitendo History

Duck Hunt and Icies are our Retro Repe

WFT and Piranha Plant seem to be “suprise characters” and they do their job well.

and if you argue K. Rool, well the DK series isn’t exactly dead now is it?

Golden Sun just aint relevant anymore, we need a remake or a new game. Simple as that

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Simple, relevany seems matter somewhat.

Game and Watch and ROB have places in Nitendo History

Duck Hunt and Icies are our Retro Repe

WFT and Piranha Plant seem to be “suprise characters” and they do their job well.

and if you argue K. Rool, well the DK series isn’t exactly dead now is it?

Golden Sun just aint relevant anymore, we need a remake or a new game. Simple as that

But I can't wait like this. Not like this....

Not when we're still down....

I'm....I'm so sorry....I'm sorry to this thread. I'm sorry I caused so many people's dissapointments...

 

[Peeton]

Hey, remember how many Links we have? Link, Young Link, Toon Link...

Why couldn’t they do that with other characters? So really, we still got a chance! Adult Isaac or Mathew for Smash!

 

[Kalaam]

We don't need a new game or remake.
We need to make it relevant, and that's by creating stuff around it. Sharing the games etc.
A game is relevant as long as people play it.
If nobody plays DK, mario, FE, they wouldn't be relevant.
So if you wish for GS to be relevant, play it. Show that you're playing it. Draw stuff, remix music, stream it,share what you find.
Heck, as someone said let's make a fangame if we want too.

 

[Plato Xaiver]

Just remember guys, no matter what you see on the internet.

Is it okay to be disappointed. 100%, just dont be one of those people who refuse to buy the game over this, I understand, we’re all in mourning. We’ll get our chance in the light one day, we just...have to wait longer.

 

[StrawHatX]

Simple, relevany seems matter somewhat.

Game and Watch and ROB have places in Nitendo History

Duck Hunt and Icies are our Retro Repe

WFT and Piranha Plant seem to be “suprise characters” and they do their job well.

and if you argue K. Rool, well the DK series isn’t exactly dead now is it?

Golden Sun just aint relevant anymore, we need a remake or a new game. Simple as that

Fire Emblem was non existent in the West before Melee and then they added Marth and Roy. After that they released the Fire Emblem games over here and suddenly that series is one of Nintendo’s biggest.

You’d think the geniuses over at Nintendo would think “Maybe if we put a Golden Sun character in Smash, which is insanely popular all over the world, it would garnish interest in that series and then we would have another IP to make money off of.”

But no. We’ll put another Mario character in. Or another Pokémon character. Because clearly those series need advertising. It’s not like a new Mario or Pokémon game doesn’t always sell millions of copies every year.

 

[Nimbostratus]

Donkey Kong isn’t dead though golden sun is

Simple, relevany seems matter somewhat.

Game and Watch and ROB have places in Nitendo History

Duck Hunt and Icies are our Retro Repe

WFT and Piranha Plant seem to be “suprise characters” and they do their job well.

and if you argue K. Rool, well the DK series isn’t exactly dead now is it?

Golden Sun just aint relevant anymore, we need a remake or a new game. Simple as that

Reasonable points, and I do think a remake and a new game would be a big boon. But what better way to get that than to show support for Isaac?
Dang, I'm getting called optimistic when I don't think I was even being particularly optimistic. Guess I'll hang out somewhere else until the mood improves to "bad" instead of "nonexistent".

 

[Plato Xaiver]

Fire Emblem was non existent in the West before Melee and then they added Marth and Roy. After that they released the Fire Emblem games over here and suddenly that series is one Nintendo’s biggest.

You’d think the geniuses over at Nintendo would think “Maybe if we put a Golden Sun character in Smash, which is insanely popular all over the world, it would garnish interest in that series and then we would have another IP to make money off of.”

But no. We’ll put another Mario character in. Or another Pokémon character. Because clearly those series need advertising. It’s not like a new Mario or Pokémon games doesn’t always sell millions of copies every year.

1. Fire Emblem was HUGE in Japan and this was simply done for marketing. Fire Emblem is now one of Nintendos biggest franchises.

2.Insanely popular and dead franchise, as much as it hurts to admit Golden Sun only sees a lot of talk during Smash time.

3. Yeah, cause characters from those series have selling points...well Idk about Piranha Plant, but Incineroar is insanely popular in Japan and he definitely has his fanbase in the west as well.


The casual Smash fan, and newer fans wont know who the hell Isaac is sadly...yes making him playable would fix that, but why would Sakurai and his team take the risk? Having to appeal to Hardcore, Causal, and different demographics hurts our boys chances. Same with Geno sadly, he’s over 20 years old...

 

[Tetiro]

1. Fire Emblem was HUGE in Japan and this was simply done for marketing. Fire Emblem is now one of Nintendos biggest franchises.

2.Insanely popular and dead franchise, as much as it hurts to admit Golden Sun only sees a lot of talk during Smash time.

3. Yeah, cause characters from those series have selling points...well Idk about Piranha Plant, but Incineroar is insanely popular in Japan and he definitely has his fanbase in the west as well.


The casual Smash fan, and newer fans wont know who the hell Isaac is sadly...yes making him playable would fix that, but why would Sakurai and his team take the risk? Having to appeal to Hardcore, Causal, and different demographics hurts our boys chances. Same with Geno sadly, he’s over 20 years old...

Which is why it is up to us to spread the word of Golden Sun. We need to make more fans. Who says we can't show off the games to our friends and fellow gamers?

 

[Plato Xaiver]

Honestly I take our loss as a good thing, people who didn’t even care about our boy even came to show condolences, watching reactions to the direct people were legitimately surprised/shocked to seem him back as an AT.

Sadly it seems this was meant to be.

 

[Gurein]

Hmmm what if the reason Isaac was revealed last was because they couldn't renew his trademark on time?
I have a hard time believing Sakurai either did this on purpose, or didn't think this through.

 

[Plato Xaiver]

Hmmm what if the reason Isaac was revealed last was because they couldn't renew his trademark on time?
I have a hard time believing Sakurai either did this on purpose, or didn't think this through.

It was renewed a whole year (2 supposedly ) years early though.

Hopefully this means new music though :^)

 

[StrawHatX]

1. Fire Emblem was HUGE in Japan and this was simply done for marketing. Fire Emblem is now one of Nintendos biggest franchises.

2.Insanely popular and dead franchise, as much as it hurts to admit Golden Sun only sees a lot of talk during Smash time.

3. Yeah, cause characters from those series have selling points...well Idk about Piranha Plant, but Incineroar is insanely popular in Japan and he definitely has his fanbase in the west as well.


The casual Smash fan, and newer fans wont know who the hell Isaac is sadly...yes making him playable would fix that, but why would Sakurai and his team take the risk? Having to appeal to Hardcore, Causal, and different demographics hurts our boys chances. Same with Geno sadly, he’s over 20 years old...

1. That’s why I said “in the West”. It’s now pretty damn popular over here and that’s popularity stemmed from Smash.

I know Golden Sun is dead and is only talked about during Smash. But that’s mostly Nintendo’s fault. The GBA games sold well. Dark Dawn was just released far too late and they put it on the dying DS months before the 3DS game out with games like Ocarina of Time.

3. Can you elaborate on this? What do you mean they have selling points? People will play whoever is put in a Smash game.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I'm not....buying smash. But that's just because I've learned of other things about smash that i'm dissapointed by.

Having Isaac be a AT sucks, but it sucks worse when some modes are just much worse than you thought.

 

[Plato Xaiver]

3. Can you elaborate on this? What do you mean they have selling points? People will play whoever is put in a Smash game.

Isabelle: Animal Crossing is a hit lately, Isabelle is the new face of the series. People seem to really love her: Shes in Smash now, people who love Isabelle will see this and...boom. They’ll see that can literally play as Isabelle in a game.
This is also a demographic thing, a lot young female fans LOVE Isabelle.

Incineroar: Tony the Tiger overhere is damn huge in Japan, and Pokemon is debatably Nintendos biggest franchise. This one is obvious.

Piranha Plant is a joke character, so Im not even going to argue his case.

 

[Tetiro]

Isabelle: Animal Crossing is a hit lately, Isabelle is the new face of the series. People seem to really love her: Shes in Smash now, people who love Isabelle will see this and...boom. They’ll see that can literally play as Isabelle in a game.
This is also a demographic thing, a lot young female fans LOVE Isabelle.

Incineroar: Tony the Tiger overhere is damn huge in Japan, and Pokemon is debatably Nintendos biggest franchise. This one is obvious.

Piranha Plant is a joke character, so Im not even going to argue his case.

Pretty much. It is a numbers game regarding the roster!

 

[Plato Xaiver]

To prove my demographic point, who is the youngest Isaac supporter on our list?

 

[StrawHatX]

Isabelle: Animal Crossing is a hit lately, Isabelle is the new face of the series. People seem to really love her: Shes in Smash now, people who love Isabelle will see this and...boom. They’ll see that can literally play as Isabelle in a game.
This is also a demographic thing, a lot young female fans LOVE Isabelle.

Incineroar: Tony the Tiger overhere is damn huge in Japan, and Pokemon is debatably Nintendos biggest franchise. This one is obvious.

Piranha Plant is a joke character, so Im not even going to argue his case.

Sure. But what I’m getting at is Smash already has tons of popular characters in it. That’s why Sakurai was able to put Marth and Roy in Melee. Because people over here would buy the game anyways because it had popular Nintendo characters regardless of these two characters they had never heard about.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

I just hope Sakurai will hear about the disappointment and try to rectify it with the DLC.

 

[GoldenBoy01]

To prove my demographic point, who is the youngest Isaac supporter on our list?

IDK, I'm 17 though. My uncle gave me a GBA with the first game, and that's how I got into it.

 

[TappyBat]

I just hope Sakurai will hear about the disappointment and try to rectify it with the DLC.

if there's a wave 2 maybe

 

[Golden Icarus]

Here’s the thing, there is definitely a disconnect between Hardcore and Casual fans, and between Demographics

Golden Sun, sadly, is a dead series. Dark dawn wasn’t a bad game, but it didn’t sell well due to its poor release timing. We need a new Golden Sun game to make the series relevant again? until then we’re fundamentally screwed. We’re gonna get neglected until we make a stand, Isaac has no selling point for casual fans who see him as a “literal who” same deal goes to Geno sadly...

No. Virtually no one will say that. If Isaac is an assist trophy, then even the casual audience that isn’t too familiar with the character will still be like “oh that assist with the big hands! I can play as him now? Cool!” Honestly I lot more people will know Isaac than Corrin, who was a complete mystery to anyone outside of Japan.

Saks only cares about relevant things that are still alive we are not. Hence we won’t be playable

That just isn’t true. Game & Watch, R.O.B., Ice Climbers? What about Kid Icarus which Sakurai personally revived himself? Or King K. Rool? Or Simon Belmont?

People need to relax and quit acting like everything is suddenly against us now.

 

[SPEN18]

On relevancy:
It's so weird to me that they've been so averse to picking older/less relevant characters these past couple of games. One of the best parts of Smash is discovering new franchises and trying new games you wouldn't have otherwise. If Isaac gets in, sure, there will be plenty of people who are like "literally who?" and may even be angry. But that's any character, and it's what his trailer and fun moveset are for. Sakurai's trailers have convinced me on a lot of characters I didn't really think would be fun. But even more than that, think about the kids. Sure, none of them will buy the game because it has Isaac in it. But they will buy the game anyway because it has Mario or Pikachu in it. And then they will see characters like Isaac and think "wow he's cool, where did he come from?" and will get interested in GS.

 

[KoopaSaki]

I will keep my Hope high for Isaac. We need to keep this discussion going even after smash ultimate come and goes. We need to keep hope alive and keep knocking on the door. I’m glad that all of these past months got me into golden sun again as a longtime fan. It shows just how passionate some of us really are. It’s time for me to contribute to in the best way I can. So let’s not give up now. We’re not going to die. We’re going to fight and win.

 

[TappyBat]

uh, well i tweeted him. will most likely get ignored but yeah

 

[AmateurKnight23]

Let’s say it is possible in the mind of Nintendo for Assist Trophies to be playable:

I don’t think there is any way for Isaac to be the only one that becomes playable. We’d be in direct competition with tons of other worthy candidates, which could produce a lot of hostility between the fandoms. I don’t think Nintendo wants to stir that pot.

DLC assuming that it can’t be something shown off already:

I didn’t see Tekken at all (Heihachi)
I didn’t see Sora/Geno
I didn’t see Rayman
I didn’t Banjo & Kazooie
Multiple games with new characters are sure to be released within the next year (Fire Emblem: Three Houses)

 

[TappyBat]

Let’s say it is possible in the mind of Nintendo for Assist Trophies to be playable:

I don’t think there is any way for Isaac to be the only one that becomes playable. We’d be in direct competition with tons of other worthy candidates, which could produce a lot of hostility between the fandoms. I don’t think Nintendo wants to stir that pot.

so back to never then. yaaay -_-

geno is a sticker

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Let’s say it is possible in the mind of Nintendo for Assist Trophies to be playable:

I don’t think there is any way for Isaac to be the only one that becomes playable. We’d be in direct competition with tons of other worthy candidates, which could produce a lot of hostility between the fandoms. I don’t think Nintendo wants to stir that pot.

They already stirred the pot enough already. What the hell do you think could be even worse?

We don't deserve this bull****. No AT in that direct ****ing does.

And no. I'm not taking it back. I haven't slept in a day and a hour and a half and I'm not gonna be able to sleep well at all knowing this is what we've come to.

 

[BoreasTheSnowConeMachine]

Really as weird as it sounds we need to create a hoax. Remember that “The Solar Soothsayer” hoax? It gave some momentum towards getting dark dawn created.

Creating a cool mock-up up a battle scene or box art cover for a remake of the old games would do wonders for the franchise. We would have something to get behind

 

[TempestSurge]

I think the 'literally who?' is getting blown way out of proportion. It seems silly for us to claim that Isaac is this top ballot contender and fan favorite that we've been using as our main evidence for Isaac's inclusion in base and then turn around and ownsay that Isaac is this nobody that wouldn't sell. Since yesterday I've been watching different reactions by top competitors, content creators, or casual fans that don't have much views/subscribers but uploaded their reactions anyway. And Isaac's reveal as an assist, more often than not gets a huge knee jerk reaction in some way. One guy even instantly shouted, 'Golden Sun!'.

The thing to remember is Isaac isn't some new assist that hasn't seen an appearance since 2001, and is now all of a sudden there, he was in Brawl previously so he has that recognizability in the Smash fan base in general, not just us sole hardcore/nostalgic etc. Golden Sun fans.

And it's not just Isaac that got slighted, other popular assists like Shadow, Skull Kid, Waluigi, these active and relevant series stayed assists as well. Dixie Kong still can't even get her foot on the door. Ultimate was both a blessing and a curse for Isaac's chances. A blessing that it was going in a more fan favorite direction, a curse that this was also the game where everyone was brought back so the newcomer list was limited. Had this been like any other newcomer cycle where we could have expected something like 16 newcomers, maybe that roster on the Grinch leak wouldn't seem so much like a pipe dream.