Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[TempestSurge]

I think people are getting the “Nintendo was shocked by fans being angry at Isaac’s AT” the wrong way.

I see a lot of people here say that it’s because Isaac wasn’t on Nintendo’s radar and they didn’t know how popular he was. You may be right that they could’ve underestimated his popularity, but if they really didn’t know how popular he was, then why did GS get the abundant amount of content it has gotten? You need to realize that we went from having literally nothing in Smash 4 except for like 1 ripped music track, to having everything but a character, stage, and new music in Ultimate. I think Sakurai and his team and Nintendo know that Isaac is a popular choice among Smash fans and has a large GS fanbase. Isaac probably did well on the ballot to justify it.

However, what I think is happening instead is that Nintendo is now realizing what being an AT or new costume can mean to a lot fans. For Nintendo and Sakurai, AT’s are meant to be compensation, the next best thing to being a fighter that fans would appreciate. Hell, a lot can move, do multiple attacks, get grabbed, launched, be hit, so they really went out of their way to make them feel more special. But to a lot of fans when they a new AT being shown off for the first times, one of the many things that first come to mind are, “they’re not going to be playable”, “they’re deconfirmed”, “it’s over”, “why is X not playable?”. A lot of people are fine that their character got to actually be in the game at least, but a lot of fans also feel that that’s it, there’s no other choice but to wait for the next game to even have a chance, and thus being an AT is treated like a death sentence. I think that’s what Nintendo started seeing that’s how some fans see AT’s as.

And as for what Polar Panda said, I don’t see it as the sole reason for why Isaac isn’t in, but one of couple others that ended making him lower priority. There wasn’t a lot of man power or time for newcomers this time, seeing how we only got 4 new stages and 6 brand new characters, and Isaac not only would he need to be a unqiue addition, but also would’ve had to bring a stage and new music since he is from a new series. Isaac would’ve ate up a lot of time, and with GS’s dormant status, it was another reason to not include him.

I feel like the backlash to Waluigi's assist should have gotten the point across enough to Nintendo in how fans view the assist status in comparison to Sakurai, since Reggie even had to come out and address the chaos. It's funny thinking back on it now cause I really do feel Nintendo genuinely wasn't expecting that reaction for Isaac. A character from a series Nintendo doesn't consider as big as it's main titles and also hasn't had a new game in almost a decade.

Maybe they thought it'd be on the level of Black Knight, relatively known and popular but not to the extent that people were gunning for his playability. So just maybe a couple of fans disappointed. Of course Isaac's assist reveal would have likely had a more normal reaction if it was either one, shown off initially at E3 and two, didn't have things like the Rathalos tweet, the mistaken growth sprout item, the Grinch leak, in addition to Isaac's reveal being so drawn out to the point that he felt like he was pretty much in the bag.

As for the Polar source, I did find some things kind of odd. Like how it said Isaac would have been an assist regardless of his popularity or that Camelot needed to make a new game for Isaac to be playable in Ultimate (even though they made a new game not two years before the development of 4, and Isaac still wasn't chosen). I know we can always logically come up with these explanations for why Isaac was not chosen, but at the same time I feel like Sakurai could just make Isaac playable and then in his interview not bring up any of that. I'd like to think what with everything that's accumulated, that Isaac should definitely be a newcomer for Smash 6. Until development for it starts and we learn that Sakurai's vision for the roster already eliminates Isaac from the equation, like it always does. I'm being silly.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That's a pretty neat survey. Though I admit F-Zero is the first Nintendo franchise I want to see revived, Golden Sun and Panel De Pon are absolutely up there too. But I gotta answer truthfully, you know? Regardless, any chance to plug in our favorite games and let Nintendo know is awesome. It's great fan data as is~

Maybe it'll help a bit for the next Smash game.

 

[tbuster766]

That's a pretty neat survey. Though I admit F-Zero is the first Nintendo franchise I want to see revived, Golden Sun and Panel De Pon are absolutely up there too. But I gotta answer truthfully, you know? Regardless, any chance to plug in our favorite games and let Nintendo know is awesome. It's great fan data as is~

Maybe it'll help a bit for the next Smash game.

Speaking of which, this is totally random but is it just me or does Brian vaguely remind you of Sable Prince a bit?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Speaking of which, this is totally random but is it just me or does Brian vaguely remind you of Sable Prince a bit?

You mean, remind yourself??

Cause I don't much see it. I mean, I see very basic similarities(is a kid, has a weapon, technically can be seen among animals...), but they don't seem similarly designed. I don't look at both pictures back to back enough.

That said, that's the 3rd party franchise I wanted them to revive. I'm sure it won't happen(due to the lack of fan demand/kind of a pain to try and buy out just to revive it, which it won't sell enough to justify the idea. As a fan of the series, I like to keep my expectations in check. There's a reason I never actually would expect a single bit of Q64 content in Smash. Unless some developer decides to revive it, and then the next game might get some content. It's one of the few third party games I don't think has a chance of content without being revived first, basically).

 

[Deleted member]

Do y'all think a remake of GS would work with the same art style as the LoZ LA remake?

I think it would work for the most part. I would change the characters to make them taller and give them pupils, irises, and retinas as opposed to just black dots for the eyes like a Mother character lol.

I think a remake of GS could also work in the same art style as the Mario & Luigi SS and BIS remakes.

 

[SPEN18]

Do y'all think a remake of GS would work with the same art style as the LoZ LA remake?

No.

I mean, logistically it would work but idk if I'd like it

 

[tbuster766]

You mean, remind yourself??

Cause I don't much see it. I mean, I see very basic similarities(is a kid, has a weapon, technically can be seen among animals...), but they don't seem similarly designed. I don't look at both pictures back to back enough.

That said, that's the 3rd party franchise I wanted them to revive. I'm sure it won't happen(due to the lack of fan demand/kind of a pain to try and buy out just to revive it, which it won't sell enough to justify the idea. As a fan of the series, I like to keep my expectations in check. There's a reason I never actually would expect a single bit of Q64 content in Smash. Unless some developer decides to revive it, and then the next game might get some content. It's one of the few third party games I don't think has a chance of content without being revived first, basically).

My bad. I was just using "you" and not being very specific. I also had a feeling he was first party, but it's interesting to know that he's third party.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

My bad. I was just using "you" and not being very specific. I also had a feeling he was first party, but it's interesting to know that he's third party.

Yep. Created by Imagineer. Published by Nintendo in the US and Konami in the UK, and itself in Japan(where Imagineer is stationed).

Company is out of video games, and Quest 64 sold poorly enough that they didn't renew the trademark literally within a year, which they lost it, so anybody can(not that many would) snatch it up. I mean, the game has mediocre ratings(and that's being kind).

On another note, one romhack idea I had included usage of Golden Sun's design. Mainly, using stuff like Multi-Spells via your party members. Basically, you know how many Psynergy have higher levels? Well, instead of using one person, you could have multiple characters spend less PP to perform a higher level Psynergy. That's kind of an idea I had based around the Summoning System, as Quest 64 doesn't have that idea. It does revolve around Earth, Fire, Wind, and Water, though. I also worked on some ideal weapons, though Dark Dawn gave me a lot more neat options. Like using Bows/Crossbows for Homing Arrow, which looks somewhat akin... to an arrow/bolt, respectively. It's effective the "lightning/thunder" attack in games. Even moreso when remade with sprites, heh.

I also wonder what other games could be remade with Golden Sun's game system~

 

[tbuster766]

Yep. Created by Imagineer. Published by Nintendo in the US and Konami in the UK, and itself in Japan(where Imagineer is stationed).

Company is out of video games, and Quest 64 sold poorly enough that they didn't renew the trademark literally within a year, which they lost it, so anybody can(not that many would) snatch it up. I mean, the game has mediocre ratings(and that's being kind).

On another note, one romhack idea I had included usage of Golden Sun's design. Mainly, using stuff like Multi-Spells via your party members. Basically, you know how many Psynergy have higher levels? Well, instead of using one person, you could have multiple characters spend less PP to perform a higher level Psynergy. That's kind of an idea I had based around the Summoning System, as Quest 64 doesn't have that idea. It does revolve around Earth, Fire, Wind, and Water, though. I also worked on some ideal weapons, though Dark Dawn gave me a lot more neat options. Like using Bows/Crossbows for Homing Arrow, which looks somewhat akin... to an arrow/bolt, respectively. It's effective the "lightning/thunder" attack in games. Even moreso when remade with sprites, heh.

I also wonder what other games could be remade with Golden Sun's game system~

I see that Quest 64 has the element powers going for it like Golden Sun does with Venus, Mercury, Mars, and Jupiter. I do wonder if Golden Sun can expand upon the light and dark djin in dark dawn. Hey you never know all things considered. While Quest 64 may not have had the same cult following as other series, I think the nintendo direct as of recently spells well for future games in series like Rune Factory 5. Maybe Quest 64 can have a remake akin to Kid Icarus someday.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I see that Quest 64 has the element powers going for it like Golden Sun does with Venus, Mercury, Mars, and Jupiter. I do wonder if Golden Sun can expand upon the light and dark djin in dark dawn. Hey you never know all things considered. While Quest 64 may not have had the same cult following as other series, I think the nintendo direct as of recently spells well for future games in series like Rune Factory 5. Maybe Quest 64 can have a remake akin to Kid Icarus someday.

I can only hope so.

Till then, my fan works related to it will do~

Now if I can finally get a good wikia page design for Monsters, it'll be even better.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

~Determination~ #SuperCamelotBros #AssistAlliance #SmashBros pic.twitter.com/aW9AbadfEk

— Stoic Seraphim (@Stoic_Miiverse) February 20, 2019

More fantastic art from StoicSeraph

 

[Tetiro]

Stoic and the Super Camelot Bros are too good for us. Props to Stoic for the outstanding artwork!

 

[GoodGrief741]

~Determination~ #SuperCamelotBros #AssistAlliance #SmashBros pic.twitter.com/aW9AbadfEk

— Stoic Seraphim (@Stoic_Miiverse) February 20, 2019

More fantastic art from StoicSeraph

Can we get this in Astral Chain?

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Do y'all think a remake of GS would work with the same art style as the LoZ LA remake?

I think it would work for the most part. I would change the characters to make them taller and give them pupils, irises, and retinas as opposed to just black dots for the eyes like a Mother character lol.

I think a remake of GS could also work in the same art style as the Mario & Luigi SS and BIS remakes.

For the overworld, sure. Golden Sun character was always kinda chibi and looks great from top down view.

However for the battle sequence, I really hope they can use something like Isaac's Smash model but more polished and animated.

 

[Kalaam]

A slight SD/Chibi style would work, but not the one of Link's Awakening. Too toyish.
The thing is chibi models now are often **very** chibi/childish as they aren't a visual constraint anymore. So i don't know what it would look like for Golden Sun if they remade it while keeping top down view and chibi style, maybe something similar to bravely default.

 

[Nimbostratus]

For the overworld, sure. Golden Sun character was always kinda chibi and looks great from top down view.

However for the battle sequence, I really hope they can use something like Isaac's Smash model but more polished and animated.

Haha, now I’m picturing toy chibi Isaac/Felix and friends calling down these intense, epic summons. Amusing, but the battle sequences need to be more realistic to be taken seriously, just as is the case in the original games.

The original overworld has a chibi style, mainly due to technology, and a LA version of it would theoretically look good, but I think going so over the top with that style would create a bit of a dissonance when you are constantly flipping between toy chibis and a realistic battle with Isaac’s Battle Theme blaring. I’m fine with chibi influences in the overworld, but I don’t want them to embrace it so much that I have a hard time even picturing a more realistic environment in my mind.

 

[Luigifan18]

Yep. Created by Imagineer. Published by Nintendo in the US and Konami in the UK, and itself in Japan(where Imagineer is stationed).

Company is out of video games, and Quest 64 sold poorly enough that they didn't renew the trademark literally within a year, which they lost it, so anybody can(not that many would) snatch it up. I mean, the game has mediocre ratings(and that's being kind).

On another note, one romhack idea I had included usage of Golden Sun's design. Mainly, using stuff like Multi-Spells via your party members. Basically, you know how many Psynergy have higher levels? Well, instead of using one person, you could have multiple characters spend less PP to perform a higher level Psynergy. That's kind of an idea I had based around the Summoning System, as Quest 64 doesn't have that idea. It does revolve around Earth, Fire, Wind, and Water, though. I also worked on some ideal weapons, though Dark Dawn gave me a lot more neat options. Like using Bows/Crossbows for Homing Arrow, which looks somewhat akin... to an arrow/bolt, respectively. It's effective the "lightning/thunder" attack in games. Even moreso when remade with sprites, heh.

I also wonder what other games could be remade with Golden Sun's game system~

I see that Quest 64 has the element powers going for it like Golden Sun does with Venus, Mercury, Mars, and Jupiter. I do wonder if Golden Sun can expand upon the light and dark djin in dark dawn. Hey you never know all things considered. While Quest 64 may not have had the same cult following as other series, I think the nintendo direct as of recently spells well for future games in series like Rune Factory 5. Maybe Quest 64 can have a remake akin to Kid Icarus someday.

I can only hope so.

Till then, my fan works related to it will do~

Now if I can finally get a good wikia page design for Monsters, it'll be even better.

Hmmm... you're discussing Quest 64 and didn't invite Legendary Spirit Tamer? Shame on you!

EDIT: Hang on, why can't I @ LST?

EDIT: Derp, I just noticed the name change.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Hmmm... you're discussing Quest 64 and didn't invite Legendary Spirit Tamer? Shame on you!

EDIT: Hang on, why can't I @ LST?

EDIT: Derp, I just noticed the name change.

lol, this has happened before, heh.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

If they think ATs are a Pandora's Box, it's because they forgot about non-videogame character suggestions.

 

[Deleted member]

If they think ATs are a Pandora's Box, it's because they forgot about non-videogame character suggestions.

This is why Sir Isaac Newton is getting revealed as DLC

 

[N3ON]

Who cares if one AT getting in spikes demand for others? At least then they'll be proof it's possible to become recast as playable.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

That's a pretty neat survey. Though I admit F-Zero is the first Nintendo franchise I want to see revived, Golden Sun and Panel De Pon are absolutely up there too. But I gotta answer truthfully, you know? Regardless, any chance to plug in our favorite games and let Nintendo know is awesome. It's great fan data as is~

Maybe it'll help a bit for the next Smash game.

In the meantime, at least HG101 has posted an awesome article for the entire F-Zero series in their next digest book.

Who cares if one AT getting in spikes demand for others? At least then they'll be proof it's possible to become recast as playable.

I mean...

 

[N3ON]

I mean...

Within the same game

 

[ZelDan]

I mean, If Isaac through some miracle is made playable, then I'm honestly not even going to care if it stirs the pot a bit much for other fandoms, I'll be too busy being excited that Isaac made it ****ing in.

 

[KoopaSaki]

I mean, If Isaac through some miracle is made playable, then I'm honestly not even going to care if it stirs the pot a bit much for other fandoms, I'll be too busy being excited that Isaac made it ****ing in.[/QUOTE
That’s the timeline I’ll believe we’re in for soon. I just hope that e3 2019 comes and nintendo won’t reveal Mario golf. If the dream comes true and golden sun returns then Isaac can’t be too far off!

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, If Isaac through some miracle is made playable, then I'm honestly not even going to care if it stirs the pot a bit much for other fandoms, I'll be too busy being excited that Isaac made it ****ing in.

Before I was simply supporting Isaac, but now that I'm playing Golden Sun, I do really want him (not as much as Geno and Ninten but still, I want him).

 

[SirCamp]

That's a pretty neat survey. Though I admit F-Zero is the first Nintendo franchise I want to see revived, Golden Sun and Panel De Pon are absolutely up there too. But I gotta answer truthfully, you know? Regardless, any chance to plug in our favorite games and let Nintendo know is awesome. It's great fan data as is~

Maybe it'll help a bit for the next Smash game.

I feel like I've become the old man yelling at clouds, but there are so many IPs I'd like to see return. Golden Sun of course. Possibly my number one. Or maybe that's Diddy Kong Racing. I dunno it's tough between those two. If Nintendo could work something out with Microsoft, then Banjo Kazooie too (and even Diddy Kong Racing with the old cast lol). Also, while not Nintendo I want to see a bunch of Konami properties come back (sad for me I know), but Suikoden and Mystical Ninja? Come on, let Nintendo use those properties if you won't Konami! Also Bomberman for that matter, even tho it isn't quite as dead what with Bomberman R being a thing. I never played Castlevania as a kid, but it would still be cool to see that franchise get revived as well.

And Ogre Battle. And Snowboard Kids. And WarioLand. And I suppose F-Zero too. (Can you tell I loved my N64 as a kid?)

My ultimate dream though would be for Nintendo to somehow acquire the rights to Monster Rancher and add that to their repertoire. I need me some new Monster Rancher...

Anyway, I digress. There really are so many great game series that could be revived. And I really do hope Golden Sun will be among those graced with a revival. I gotta say I started browsing this thread with no inkling of the potential for a Golden revival or reboot/remaster or anything of that sort, so I was entirely focused on the idea that Isaac should be playable in Smash. But at this point I think my hopes are actually more dedicated to a new game. I never thought I'd say this, but especially after the outpouring of support for Isaac on social media, I could actually see it happening now. Probably not soon if it ever actually does, but man that would be so hype.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Within the same game

My thing with the Assist Trophy "deconfirmations" is that everything was a "deconfirmation" until they happened.

3rd parties? Snake. Trophies and not playable? Mewtwo, Lucas. Avatar characters? Villager, Robin.

Everything is impossible and then it happens.

 

[Tetiro]

Morning all!

It's finally time for me to continue my first-time playthroughs of Golden Sun. I started Lost Age today and Felix's battle them just rocks! I can't wait to play more of it.

It will motivate me to continue making the Isaac cosplay ^_^

 

[_Sheik]

Do y'all think a remake of GS would work with the same art style as the LoZ LA remake?

I think it would work for the most part. I would change the characters to make them taller and give them pupils, irises, and retinas as opposed to just black dots for the eyes like a Mother character lol.

I think a remake of GS could also work in the same art style as the Mario & Luigi SS and BIS remakes.

I think the one true scale befitting of Golden Sun would be something like Xenoblade or the Tales Of games. But since Nintendo obviously won't allow GS the required budget, I think the next best thing is Octopath Traveler (for the cities and overworld of course - battles would feature more detailed visuals, as per GS standards)

 

[KoopaSaki]

https://www.strawpoll.me/17439573/r
Hey guys my pal lade over in Brandon Florida needs your help. He needs to be voted into the top 4 so he can make an appearance for this big venue they are hosting for the top 4 ridleys. He’s fallen back to 5th place so If anyone wants to lend a hand, it would help a lot for my smash tourney community.

 

[shocktarts17]

https://www.strawpoll.me/17439573/r
Hey guys my pal lade over in Brandon Florida needs your help. He needs to be voted into the top 4 so he can make an appearance for this big venue they are hosting for the top 4 ridleys. He’s fallen back to 5th place so If anyone wants to lend a hand, it would help a lot for my smash tourney community.

Hey I know you're just trying to help, but wouldn't the Ridley thread or the competitive thread be a better place for this?

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

The news came out that Reggie is retiring from his position as president of Nintendo of America on the 15th of April. This of course kind of intertwines with the planned date for Golden Sunday 2 on the 14-15th of April.

Legendary moment #ThankYouReggie pic.twitter.com/7WmHZ7WYyC

— Isaac's Allied Adepts ☀️ #GoldenSunday (@IsaacAdepts) February 21, 2019

We've shared our tributes and we are planning to integrate a heartfelt goodbye to Reggie alongside the event since moving the date will just make things more complicated. I'll be making the official announcement for Golden Sunday 2 soon

 

[Xenigma]

Hey guys, any creative people here have good vectors for the Golden Sun logo (preferably just the text) and/or the icon from the first page? I'm looking to replace my convention bag I use for things like PAX East and thought maybe customizing a bag with GS stuff would be a fun project.

 

[KoopaSaki]

So a pal of mine and I were chatting about smash dlc and he claims sternly that wave 1 of dlc will only be 3rd party characters. While I’m all for it given that banjo and geno have more of a chance, this may worry me about Isaac making it into ultimate if this dlc wave is all we’ll get for smash ultimate until the next game. Has it been confirmed by some insider that all dlc in the fighters pass will only be 3rd party or is that just rumors?

 

[Deleted member]

So a pal of mine and I were chatting about smash dlc and he claims sternly that wave 1 of dlc will only be 3rd party characters. While I’m all for it given that banjo and geno have more of a chance, this may worry me about Isaac making it into ultimate if this dlc wave is all we’ll get for smash ultimate until the next game. Has it been confirmed by some insider that all dlc in the fighters pass will only be 3rd party or is that just rumors?

This has been confirmed nowhere.

There is literally no reason to believe we are getting all third parties as DLC, unless you believe the Ryu, Steve, and Doomguy leak.

 

[Organization XIII]

So a pal of mine and I were chatting about smash dlc and he claims sternly that wave 1 of dlc will only be 3rd party characters. While I’m all for it given that banjo and geno have more of a chance, this may worry me about Isaac making it into ultimate if this dlc wave is all we’ll get for smash ultimate until the next game. Has it been confirmed by some insider that all dlc in the fighters pass will only be 3rd party or is that just rumors?

No there's no confirmation on what characters are possible for debate.

This has been confirmed nowhere.

There is literally no reason to believe we are getting all third parties as DLC, unless you believe the Ryu, Steve, and Doomguy leak.

Not entirely true. Last DLC cycle all newcomers were planned to be 3rd party so it's not outside the realm of possibility they would do it this time too. And yes Corrin exists but he wasn't a planned addition.

 

[RandomAce]

No there's no confirmation on what characters are possible for debate.

Not entirely true. Last DLC cycle all newcomers were planned to be 3rd party so it's not outside the realm of possibility they would do it this time too. And yes Corrin exists but he wasn't a planned addition.

Corrin himself, no.

But Sakurai said that a Nintendo character from a recent game had always been planned for Smash 4 DLC, they decided on Corrin much later.

I expect this pass to at least have 1 Nintendo newcomer.

 

[Deleted member]

No there's no confirmation on what characters are possible for debate.

Not entirely true. Last DLC cycle all newcomers were planned to be 3rd party so it's not outside the realm of possibility they would do it this time too. And yes Corrin exists but he wasn't a planned addition.

Corrin still counts as a Nintendo newcomer. Plus, most of the DLC newcomers in Smash 4 being 3rd party could be because of the DLC veterans being Nintendo characters.

Most of the DLC? Maybe. All of them? No reason to believe this.

That said, the only thing we have to go off of suggesting at least most of the DLC being third party is a "pattern," which aren't reliable to go off of. So, again, there is no reaosn to believe we are getting all third party DLC.

 

[Organization XIII]

Corrin himself, no.

But Sakurai said that a Nintendo character from a recent game had always been planned for Smash 4 DLC, they decided on Corrin much later.

I expect this pass to at least have 1 Nintendo newcomer.

No, he said that he was approached later by an executive to add a character from an upcoming game and they decided on Corrin. Originally there was no plan to do so.

Corrin still counts as a Nintendo newcomer. Plus, most of the DLC newcomers in Smash 4 being 3rd party could be because of the DLC veterans being Nintendo characters.

Most of the DLC? Maybe. All of them? No reason to believe this.

That said, the only thing we have to go off of suggesting at least most of the DLC being third party is a "pattern," which aren't reliable to go off of. So, again, there is no reaosn to believe we are getting all third party DLC.

Corrin doesn't count purely because he wasn't initially planned. If when they decided on the DLC characters Corrin was there then he would but he had special circumstances that don't apply to the rest of the cast of DLC. And yes there were vets and 3rd parties which is why it's probable they might go all 3rd party. The DLC for 4 were characters people were most likely to already know but since there are no vets to add now 3rd parties would be the only way to stick to a similar roster selection. And finally patterns don't always hold especially for Smash I agree but it's still a valid reason to think all DLC may be 3rd party.