Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

tbuster766 · Jan 14, 2019

Isaac: Venus Adept said:
They said in the September direct that the game will keep adding more character till June 2019 so I'm guessing that's when the game will be 100% wrapped up

Let's hope they shift gears to a certain rpg series we all love afterwards...

KirbyWorshipper2465 · Jan 15, 2019

Aaaand it turns out that the MTA datamine was false all along. Well, that was short.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...pular_nintendo_character_in_mario_tennis_aces

Kalaam · Jan 15, 2019

A system of support conversations in a GS remake or sequel would be nice. Though i'm thinking more of something along the lines of Tales of or Octopath traveler. If possible for the conversations to happen while on the world map, so it does slows down the game like in Dark Dawn and makes the travel time less boring. Would probably be easier if it was voice acted, but they could just make it text based and you make it advance with a button that is useless on the world map. Like a bumper or trigger.

TempestSurge · Jan 15, 2019

Now that it's brought up, I'll mention Isaac for Aces DLC as a P.S. in my letter towards the end lol.

Isaac: Venus Adept · Jan 15, 2019

Posted a reminder on Twitter regarding

Jupiter Ivan 's letter campaign. Hopefully it makes a difference

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Kalaam said:
A system of support conversations in a GS remake or sequel would be nice. Though i'm thinking more of something along the lines of Tales of or Octopath traveler. If possible for the conversations to happen while on the world map, so it does slows down the game like in Dark Dawn and makes the travel time less boring. Would probably be easier if it was voice acted, but they could just make it text based and you make it advance with a button that is useless on the world map. Like a bumper or trigger.

Yeah they had a similar thing happening in the Lamakan Desert which would be nice sprinkled more commonly in that sense of course less frequently lol

Pinguino21v · Jan 15, 2019

tbuster766 said:
More dlc for Aces? Bleh

More DLC means more money for Camelot!

TempestSurge said:
Now that it's brought up, I'll mention Isaac for Aces DLC as a P.S. in my letter towards the end lol.

Good idea.

TempestSurge · Jan 15, 2019

Pinguino21v said:
More DLC means more money for Camelot!

Good idea.

Initially my P.S. was going to be this silly jab about hoping adult Ivan doesn't have a full beard but talking about Aces DLC is way more productive towards the actual goal lol.

tbuster766 · Jan 15, 2019

Pinguino21v said:
More DLC means more money for Camelot!

Good idea.

It could also mean Camelot ends up going the "safe route" and stick with Mario Tennis games too. I'm far more scared about that scenario.

KirbyWorshipper2465 · Jan 15, 2019

Except that Aces is still just getting Mario-related characters, so we're back at square minus one. Datamine is strongly hinted to have been fabricated.

KoopaSaki · Jan 15, 2019

I’ll admit that while I am maining Lucina and getting decent results so far, I wish that the venues I go to would always have the Isaac Mii Costume equipped by default. I would love to represent our golden boi when I get on stream again. Also I recently appeared in a stylish combos by dragon smash and it shows one of the reasons I don’t use Diddy Kong anymore..

Dee Dude · Jan 15, 2019

Which do you want first?

Isaac in Smash to revive GS or a new GS title to increase Issac’s chances?

shocktarts17 · Jan 15, 2019

Dee Dude said:
Which do you want first?

Isaac in Smash to revive GS or a new GS title to increase Issac’s chances?

Hmm probably a new Golden Sun title. I mean just getting into Smash doesn't mean we would get a new game which would be a real shame but I could live if Isaac isn't one of the ~75 characters in Smash as I will still have other people to play and still enjoy the game.

tbuster766 · Jan 15, 2019

Dee Dude said:
Which do you want first?

Isaac in Smash to revive GS or a new GS title to increase Issac’s chances?

At this point a new game.

Organization XIII · Jan 15, 2019

Dee Dude said:
Which do you want first?

Isaac in Smash to revive GS or a new GS title to increase Issac’s chances?

I want both equally because we should seriously already have both.

Guynamednelson · Jan 15, 2019

tbuster766 said:
It could also mean Camelot ends up going the "safe route" and stick with Mario Tennis games too. I'm far more scared about that scenario.

I don't think they'll make another tennis game for a while. I don't think they'll even make a Switch golf game, because:

Aces was built off Mario Tennis Ultra Smash, and there is no Wii U golf game for them to make a Switch one out of.
I don't think they'd be able to make a golf game as well-received as MTA.
JRPGs are big sellers on the Switch.

KirbyWorshipper2465 · Jan 15, 2019

In any case, they can't fall back on traditional portables for making smaller projects anymore, since the majority of the Nintendo workforce will progressively focus on making Switch software.

Jupiter Ivan · Jan 15, 2019

Isaac: Venus Adept said:
Posted a reminder on Twitter regarding Jupiter Ivan 's letter campaign. Hopefully it makes a difference

There was a problem fetching the tweet

And even if it doesn’t make a huge difference, at least one of our final actions as a fanbase isn’t to look like a bunch of angry Smash bros fans, but instead hopeful Golden Sun fans.

FlawedAI · Jan 15, 2019

Dee Dude said:
Which do you want first?

Isaac in Smash to revive GS or a new GS title to increase Issac’s chances?

Honestly? A new Golden Sun to boost Isaac's chances. It's currently the more likely outcome, and will destroy every argument against the character, since he'll be relevant and literally just watching a trailer for Golden Sun would show people that Isaac's not just an "anime swordsman."

TempestSurge · Jan 15, 2019

Dee Dude said:
Which do you want first?

Isaac in Smash to revive GS or a new GS title to increase Issac’s chances?

In terms of what would help the other. I'm more inclined to believe the exposure from Smash would help immensely to getting new fans of GS to help fill in this void of fan demand the Takahashi brothers are still looking for. It'd make campaigning for Golden Sun's return even easier instead of feeling like it's just this sub group of diehard GS fans.

And personally after Sakurai's comment about it'd not being too interesting if he only added the typical hero/heroine and the jab at main characters from not widely known franchises, I now feel Sakurai is the biggest obstacle to Isaac getting in Smash and have zero confidence he'd ever choose Isaac even with a new game from a series he has no fondness or nostalgia for.

Though pretty hard to resist wanting Golden Sun 4 even if I think it'd do nothing for his Smash chances. I still hold out hope for an E3 announcent of some sort.

KirbyWorshipper2465 · Jan 15, 2019

Dee Dude said:
Which do you want first?

Isaac in Smash to revive GS or a new GS title to increase Issac’s chances?

New GS title. Lord knows when the next Smash entry will get started on and I am 100% certain AT promotions still won't happen, so the best thing to do is encourage the chance to revive Isaac's series, especially given that Camelot will have no other choice but to do games on the Switch now.

Diddy Kong · Jan 15, 2019

Yoshi444 said:
If Link can make it to Mario Tennis, so Isaac too

Way to set yourself up for a huge disappointment. Let’s be real, Isaac has no chance to appear in Mario Tennis.

KirbyWorshipper2465 · Jan 15, 2019

Diddy Kong said:
Way to set yourself up for a huge disappointment. Let’s be real, Isaac has no chance to appear in Mario Tennis.

And Link still won't be IN Mario Tennis, so. I'd sooner see the entire supporting cast of DKC make it before any guest series do.

Diddy Kong · Jan 15, 2019

KoopaSaki said:
I’ll admit that while I am maining Lucina and getting decent results so far, I wish that the venues I go to would always have the Isaac Mii Costume equipped by default. I would love to represent our golden boi when I get on stream again. Also I recently appeared in a stylish combos by dragon smash and it shows one of the reasons I don’t use Diddy Kong anymore..

Wait what!? Why don’t you use Diddy anymore??

Strider_Bond00J · Jan 15, 2019

Dee Dude said:
Which do you want first?

Isaac in Smash to revive GS or a new GS title to increase Issac’s chances?

I'd say a new Golden Sun game first; it'll introduce newcomers to the series and what Isaac is capable of, which would hopefully lead into a more unified push for him to become a fighter in the next game.

Isaac: Venus Adept · Jan 15, 2019

Dee Dude said:
Which do you want first?

Isaac in Smash to revive GS or a new GS title to increase Issac’s chances?

A new Golden Sun would kill the stupid "irrelevancy" argument for Isaac and if it's on the Switch and it does well it would just make Isaac a higher priority than he is now for a Smash inclusion. Also I've been waiting for almost a decade for it so there's that too. Though if Isaac is in Smash comes first that would still be a good outcome to generate even more demand for the next Golden Sun and more people would be familiar with it

FlawedAI · Jan 15, 2019

Diddy Kong said:
Way to set yourself up for a huge disappointment. Let’s be real, Isaac has no chance to appear in Mario Tennis.

Well, the supposed datamine was fake, so it's a non-issue, but I don't think it's entirely out of the question, with Camelot's increased references to Golden Sun, including in MTA. Not to mention that was a *touch* aggressive, but we're used to disappointment around here.

SPEN18 · Jan 15, 2019

Dee Dude said:
Which do you want first?

Isaac in Smash to revive GS or a new GS title to increase Issac’s chances?

Actually, I'd pick Isaac in Smash first, if I had it my way. I want that "irrelevant" thing dead, and Isaac has the best chance of killing it among all the unrepped Nintendo franchises. Of course, if you told me that we were getting a new GS game announced in the next Direct I'd still be super excited. The hope is for both, in either order.

Undella2 · Jan 15, 2019

That "typical hero/heroine" statement from Sakurai really does grind my metaphorical gears.

What, should Link, Samus, Shulk, Pit, Little Mac, and the 7 Fire Emblem characters be removed just because they're all somewhat standard heroes/heroines? (Compared to Piranha Plant, anyway)

No?

Then what would be the harm of adding one that represents a new series instead of Pokémon #10?

SPEN18 · Jan 15, 2019

Undella2 said:
That "typical hero/heroine" statement from Sakurai really does grind my metaphorical gears.

Yeah I wasn't too happy about that. I get what he's saying about wanting to have some eclectic characters, but just being a "surprise character" on its own isn't enough. You gotta have something else to make it work.

And besides, isn't Smash all about heroes and heroines? There's a reason that we wouldn't get Falco without Fox, for example.

KoopaSaki · Jan 15, 2019

Diddy Kong said:
Wait what!? Why don’t you use Diddy anymore??

I stopped using Diddy Kong due to the nerfs he got along with the fact I was no longer having fun playing the character. I got little to no game against zoners, and a main issue is that Diddy now is less rewarding to play and I feel that I don’t want to down my opponent with banana setups anymore. I want to move on simply after using him for a long time is all.

Dee Dude · Jan 15, 2019

That “typical hero/heroine” comment baffles me, I get why Sakurai adds silly picks like

so there can be more interesting fighters, but if he doesn’t want the roster to just be full of boring main characters, then why do we have 7 goddamn Fire Emblem protagonists in the roster???

No disrespect to Sakurai but I feel that if he had 100% input on roster choices, it would be full of weird and bizarre nobodies with barely any notable heroes or villains.

KirbyWorshipper2465 · Jan 15, 2019

Undella2 said:
That "typical hero/heroine" statement from Sakurai really does grind my metaphorical gears.

What, should Link, Samus, Shulk, Pit, Little Mac, and the 7 Fire Emblem characters be removed just because they're all somewhat standard heroes/heroines? (Compared to Piranha Plant, anyway)

No?

Then what would be the harm of adding one that represents a new series instead of Pokémon #10?

One new Pokémon per game keeps TPC happy. I suspect that's an unwritten agreement.

Also, I think he meant more in the sense of "have both heroes and goofy characters to balance out the roster a little". Besides, at least we're not stuck with Project X Zone's weird decision to exclude anyone that didn't look humanoid/pretty enough, to the point that Tron Bonne didn't show up in the sequel, since the Servbots came with her.

Dee Dude said:
That “typical hero/heroine” comment baffles me, I get why Sakurai adds silly picks like so there can be more interesting fighters, but if he doesn’t want the roster to just be full of boring main characters, then why do we have 7 goddamn Fire Emblem protagonists in the roster???

No disrespect to Sakurai but I feel that if he had 100% input on roster choices, it would be full of weird and bizarre nobodies with barely any notable heroes or villains.

Dude's a Fire Emblem fan. Not a particularly good one, unfortunately, seeing as only one of the 3 stages FE has in Smash is an actual location from the games.

In any case, the backlash against Corrin probably scared him off from adding unique FE characters for a bit.

SonicLink125 · Jan 15, 2019

Dee Dude said:
Which do you want first?

Isaac in Smash to revive GS or a new GS title to increase Issac’s chances?

Either one can both benefit each other. Isaac in Smash would generate demand for Golden Sun and kill the “relevancy” argument. A new Golden Sun game can generate hype for Isaac to be included for Smash and hopefully keep GS relevant for more games to come. We were so naive back during the Dark Dawn days and thought we would get another game after. We shall never make that same mistake again.

Personally, if I have to choose one, I would choose Isaac in Smash. As Ultimate has proven to us, once a fighter, always a fighter (for the most part anyway. Lol). And if for some reason we never do get new Golden Sun games, at least Isaac will forever be immortalized in the biggest Nintendo Roster ever.

FlawedAI · Jan 15, 2019

Undella2 said:
That "typical hero/heroine" statement from Sakurai really does grind my metaphorical gears.

What, should Link, Samus, Shulk, Pit, Little Mac, and the 7 Fire Emblem characters be removed just because they're all somewhat standard heroes/heroines? (Compared to Piranha Plant, anyway)

No?

Then what would be the harm of adding one that represents a new series instead of Pokémon #10?

God, I hate this statement from him. It's stupid to hear him say that when in this game even, he continues to add the "generic hero type" with Simon, plus Chrom, Richter, and even Ken. Plus, Smash is built on Nintendo characters, and the most memorable of these tend to be, get this, the protagonists. The recognizable characters are the ones we play as, and not the generic enemies we fight against (with very rare exceptions, like DQ's Slime). No one's gonna get excited over adding, say, Koopa, if characters like that become the norm. The hype comes from characters we're attached to, not randos from Mario. Not to mention he basically said Rex would be in the game if they had time, when Rex is the ****ing perfect example of "generic hero". Sakurai bias is real, guys, and it's true for Fire Emblem and Xenoblade.

And nothing upsets me more than adding another ****ing Pokémon. It's stupid that it gets its own slot, when even Mario isn't guaranteed a new spot. Yes, it's the biggest media franchise in the world. Whatever. Smash isn't supposed to be about promoting a franchise, and Pokémon doesn't need it anyway. When you blatantly contradict yourself by stating "it gets boring when it's just generic hero types" and adding another (and quite frankly forgettable) Pokémon, it makes you look bad. The November 1st Direct probably hurt Sakurai a lot in the long run, and I know it hurt my impression of him. It's a problem with marketing when you announce a game as "Everyone Is Here!" and it seems to be very fan-influenced, then finish off with a casual pick and someone quite literally no one asked for on the ballot. It's just frustrating knowing we'll always be behind when it comes to the corporate picks and the Sakurai bias. We've been ****ed by timing, since it's clear Sakurai doesn't have the memories for the GBA era that he does the NES era, but we got ****ed again by timing and Sakurai bias when he added Shulk over Isaac/Matthew in Smash 4, when Golden Sun was the newer game and older series, but Sakurai enjoyed Xenoblade.

Oh man, I needed to get that off my chest.

Guynamednelson · Jan 15, 2019

FlawedAI said:
And nothing upsets me more than adding another ****ing Pokémon.

I don't care that we got a new Pokemon. What I do care about is that it's not a Gen 7 mascot, has a terrible design that makes it deserve to not be one, and its gameplay is done better by Ganondorf.

proxian · Jan 15, 2019

Let's keep the positive momentum going. Isaac was highlighted as an assist, the Mii costume looks fantastic. We're getting awesome fan work and social energy out of it. If the golden sun shines again, it'll be all because of us. Won't that feel incredible?

Pinguino21v · Jan 16, 2019

SonicLink125 said:
Personally, if I have to choose one, I would choose Isaac in Smash. As Ultimate has proven to us, once a fighter, always a fighter (for the most part anyway. Lol). And if for some reason we never do get new Golden Sun games, at least Isaac will forever be

That's also what I think. There's a reason if Falcon, or even Ness, a character from a dead RPG, are still relevant. And in the Mother case, there's even people who want more (Ninten or Porky), when a more relevant serie like Golden Sun have nothing yet, and that irks me.

Tetiro · Jan 16, 2019

Isaac: Venus Adept said:
Posted a reminder on Twitter regarding Jupiter Ivan 's letter campaign. Hopefully it makes a difference

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Yeah they had a similar thing happening in the Lamakan Desert which would be nice sprinkled more commonly in that sense of course less frequently lol

Already wrote my letter! Just printing it off today to send it off!

Does anyone have the address we need to write to the Europe and UK branches? Obviously US is on the original tweet

Also! I've been cutting fabric for the pyjama trousers. It's starting to make sense how you make trousers. And considering Isaac's trousers will be the same but with it fitting tighter, it's looking like the trousers are a lock too!

shocktarts17 · Jan 16, 2019

Wow I didn't expect such a casual question to spark such outrage, I guess a lot of Issac fans have more pent up frustration that they generally show.

That said I do want to address Sakurai's comment concerning Piranha Plant and hopefully clear up some of the misconceptions here.

First lets look at exactly what the interview says,
"The Super Smash Bros. series has always spawned much fan speculation for characters that will be included, but with Piranha Plant, you have given players one of the most unpredictable inclusions. How does it feel to be able to still surprise fans even so many years later? Was that one of the intents of the inclusion of this character?
I’m actually not paying too much focus on the surprise element when we introduce a new fighter. The surprise element quickly fades once the announcement has been made.
Rather, I believe it’s important to have a good balance as a game. In the past titles in the series, Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B. and Duck Hunt Dog were some of the examples we offered outside of people’s typical expectations. However, if we don’t have these types of fighters, and we only had typical “hero/heroine” type fighters in the lineup, there’s not much difference. It’s probably not very interesting. Correct?
Also, unlike some main characters from some (not widely known) franchises, Piranha Plant is a character everyone knows well. And, I want to make sure to remind everyone that it is a limited-time offer fighter everyone can get for free as an early-purchase bonus."
Okay now I'm going to pull out the important part and highlight the parts I think are important,
"Rather, I believe it’s important to have a good balance as a game. In the past titles in the series, Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B. and Duck Hunt Dog were some of the examples we offered outside of people’s typical expectations. However, if we don’t have these types of fighters, and we only had typical “hero/heroine” type fighters in the lineup, there’s not much difference. It’s probably not very interesting. Correct?"

Okay so what does that mean? Well the one thing it 100% does not mean is that he hates the standard hero/heroine and wouldn't include them if it was up to him. All that he is saying here is that he wants a little diversity on the roster. Instead of every character being the same brave heroic type you get a mix of all types.

Lets take a look at this in practice. First take a look at the Fire Emblem representation that people even in this thread like to complain about. What we have with the Fire Emblem cast is a cast of all heroes and main characters from their games, and because of this everyone complains that the Fire Emblem reps are all the same and boring. Next lets look at Pokemon, specifically Incineroar since he is another one people in this thread were complaining about. For Pokemon the starters are often seen as the "main" Pokemon for that generation so when Incineroar gets in as another "main" Pokemon people complain that he is boring and unnecessary. So now lets compare that to the Mario series. Mario has more characters than any other series, and while many people would probably argue rightfully so there is no denying that the Mario reps don't get near the hate that Fire Emblem or Pokemon does. And why is that? Well look at the Mario cast, after Mario and Luigi you also have Peach who is more often a damsel in distress, Bowser and Bowser Jr as villains, and Roselina as a supporting NPC. Its a diverse cast of heroes, villains, and supporting characters. This is exactly what Sakurai is talking about, not that he doesn't want heroes in the game but that he wants to have characters who are unique and bring something new to the table.

So Sakurai isn't trying to add random nobody characters over people's favorites, he is trying to make the roster as diverse as he can. And as much as all of us would like Isaac there is no denying that Piranha Plant is way more unique than he would be.

True Blue Warrior · Jan 16, 2019

Tetrin said:
Can someone add me to the support list? Isaac just undoubtedly deserves his spot on the roster.

Done.

If you want to be added, remember to tag me.

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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

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