Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Icana]

Emily Rogers just said this on ResetEra:

Nah, I don't think they'll spread out Smash Bros info across two directs.

If I had to predict, I expect all remaining Smash Bros info to be revealed this week, and it will be the final roster.

As far as I know, that 'Grinch' banner is missing multiple characters. At least two characters. Which is why I don't believe that banner at all.

source: https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...nge-of-the-heart.76864/page-383#post-14368629

 

[Plato Xaiver]

Icana kind of gave me an idea for my own trailer fanfic...Inspired by the Rathalos pic.

Spoiler

 

[Nossnitro102]

Australians lost a war to Emus

They are not to be trifled with.

He's right you know. This actually happened. No lie.

 

[pholtos]

Trailer: Someone falls off the new Zelda Map
You see a !!!
The screen transitions to Isaac and
"Isaac shows emotion!"

 

[Nossnitro102]

What the- I don't-

 

[Gurein]

Emily Rogers just said this on ResetEra:



source: https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...nge-of-the-heart.76864/page-383#post-14368629

Missing? Meaning all the characters are in?
Not that I believe any insiders anymore, kt's funny how everyone is turning around.

 

[AlliwantisIsaac]

What the- I don't-

Yea that guy has issues

 

[Metocles]

Emily Rogers just said this on ResetEra:
Nah, I don't think they'll spread out Smash Bros info across two directs.

If I had to predict, I expect all remaining Smash Bros info to be revealed this week, and it will be the final roster.

As far as I know, that 'Grinch' banner is missing multiple characters. At least two characters. Which is why I don't believe that banner at all.
source: https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...nge-of-the-heart.76864/page-383#post-14368629

The super silly part, and another user pointed this out a few pages ago, is why now? We've gone months and months here with no input from anybody other than Vergeben as to who the last fighters are. Now, all of a sudden, 10 people simultaneously know who's in and who's not and they play it off as if they knew this information all along and weren't divulging it? And to top it all off you expect people to not find that remotely suspicious?

Everybody on the speculation scene and this thread has been basically working with Kencineroar, Squenix Character + Box Theory since August. We have literally hundreds of pages to prove the grand nothingness that was going on this time last month. Now we have this bombshell and now everybody has turned into a self-fashioned Vergeben. Seriously, go home.

 

[Icana]

Missing? Meaning all the characters are in?
Not that I believe any insiders anymore, kt's funny how everyone is turning around.

I think she's basically saying that she knows of "at least" two unrevealed newcomers in the game. They're not present on the leaked banner. Her conclusion: The banner is fake. But I believe she doesn't want to say that means none of the characters shown in that banner aren't in the game. Maybe one, two, three, all, or none are in, but that at least two characters she seemingly knows of aren't shown on that banner.

 

[Tetiro]

The super silly part, and another user pointed this out a few pages ago, is why now? We've gone months and months here with no input from anybody other than Vergeben as to who the last fighters are. Now, all of a sudden, 10 people simultaneously know who's in and who's not and they play it off as if they knew this information all along and weren't divulging it? And to top it all off you expect people to not find that remotely suspicious?

Everybody on the speculation scene and this thread has been basically working with Kencineroar, Squenix Character + Box Theory since August. We have literally hundreds of pages to prove the grand nothingness that was going on this time last month. Now we have this bombshell and now everybody has turned into a self-fashioned Vergeben. Seriously, go home.

Unfortunately journalism is like vultures when it comes to rumors and leaks. Everyone wants their piece of the rotting corpse and will fight off anyone who says otherwise. As a result, they are flailing about throwing anything at the wall to stick. This makes them unreliable. In the morning they say fake but in the evening they say real.

The Grinch Leak has shown people who they really are right now and I'll give you some instructions for you all to follow.

MAKE YOUR OWN OPINION. No journalist or insider is going to help you now. They are unreliable data. But the history of the characters wanted for Smash is there and their franchises's popularity is right in front of you. That will give you the opinion you need.

Isaac is in. And if he isn't, Sakurai would have a very good reason why not.
Geno is in. And if he isn't, Sakurai would have a very good reason why not.
Same for Banjo, Chorus Kids and the others.

They aren't in/out because a journalist/insider says otherwise. They are in/out because of Sakurai and his team. As well as us the fans.

I did this when I predicted months ago and so far my record has been very solid. Because I use research, judgement and facts to make my choices.

Spoiler

To quote Persona 4: "Truth is a thing which only appears to those who have observed, considered, and made a choice." "At the end of the path you chose lies the truth... Believe in it and continue without faltering."

EDIT: Also gave me an opportunity to update my predictions with the results so far!

 

[Nossnitro102]

I think it's just damage control at this point on a grand scale. You're to tell me ALL of these people are leakers and either did or didn't know these characters and so many of them claim it's fake without REAL proof?

Yeah.... sorryyy... not buying into that.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

currently on a smash nostalgia trip and thought i'd share what im watching right now

 

[pholtos]

I think it's just damage control at this point on a grand scale. You're to tell me ALL of these people are leakers and either did or didn't know these characters and so many of them claim it's fake without REAL proof? View attachment 173613Yeah.... sorryyy... not buying into that.

You ok there, Ganondorf? Smell something weird? Constipated? Stomach Ache? Do you need a doctor?

 

[Nossnitro102]

You ok there, Ganondorf? Smell something weird? Constipated? Stomach Ache? Do you need a doctor?

If I were to guess I'd say he's very displeased. Or DISAPPOINTED!

 

[Icana]

The super silly part, and another user pointed this out a few pages ago, is why now? We've gone months and months here with no input from anybody other than Vergeben as to who the last fighters are. Now, all of a sudden, 10 people simultaneously know who's in and who's not and they play it off as if they knew this information all along and weren't divulging it? And to top it all off you expect people to not find that remotely suspicious?

Everybody on the speculation scene and this thread has been basically working with Kencineroar, Squenix Character + Box Theory since August. We have literally hundreds of pages to prove the grand nothingness that was going on this time last month. Now we have this bombshell and now everybody has turned into a self-fashioned Vergeben. Seriously, go home.

I think I can understand your frustration. The feeling that there is this exclusive club of people in the know that leave fans speculating on nothing, and then when the fans find something very convincing, said insiders are dancing around it and not really listening to what said fans are trying to present.

Fans: The renders look new. The office is real. Is this the real deal?
Insiders: Well... we know stuff and that leak is fake.
Fans: Well, what do you think about the office deal?
Insiders: The banner is fake.
Fans: Well the renders...
Insiders: We are right and you are wrong! Just wait and see.

I feel there is a misunderstanding being pushed on both sides. Insiders have relationships with 'sources' and don't want that compromised. Fans have a leak their convinced is real and want specific details shot down reasonably, not danced around or falsely projected with what's not actually being argued. It doesn't help that fans do want the leak to be real as well and in combination of finding it convincing, feel like certain insiders have forgotten what it's like to be a fan of these characters and are sharing their info from a point of elevation. They're in a group of know, and the fans simply have to trust them. Thus the decaying relationship between the two groups.

 

[Xenigma]

I think Emily Rogers deserves at least a little credit here: she's giving a concrete, believable reason why she is calling the leak a fake. There are a number of potential reasons you may be unwilling to report what exactly you've heard, but if you generally trust those sources and what you're hearing is substantially different from this admittedly unproven leak, yeah, you probably side with the sources until proven otherwise.

 

[Tetiro]

I think Emily Rogers deserves at least a little credit here: she's giving a concrete, believable reason why she is calling the leak a fake. There are a number of potential reasons you may be unwilling to report what exactly you've heard, but if you generally trust those sources and what you're hearing is substantially different from this admittedly unproven leak, yeah, you probably side with the sources until proven otherwise.

Emily is one the few who tries to give reason to why it is fake. I've listened to her as a result. She makes good points. But it all depends on how mad Sakurai has gone with new characters

 

[JaidynReiman]

Well, if they reveal everyone in one Direct, its totally possible that Isaac isn't the first character revealed, allowing the thread theory to live on! Especially since we're about to hit 700.

Kinda leaning on the Direct getting announced tomorrow for Thursday.

 

[Xithyl_kykorl]

My current theory is that incineroar, and potentially other characters were leak bait, however, they were leak bait in the regards of being misunderstood ATs, or pokeballs. Considering that ATs and Pokeballs can now be KOed, have more attack patters, and more complex AI overall (for some), it wouldn't be too outlandish for someone to have seen "proof" of another playable character, but it was an intentional misunderstanding by nintendo.

In all honesty, if they were using incineroar as leak bait- it makes more sense for them to hold off on his pokeball reveal until closer to release. By only a few people who would know, telling them incineroar would cause all insiders to firmly believe in him as shown with the mass of channels with Nintendo connections, also furthering public mindset away from the truth should incineroar be falsely leaked.

The "insider" channels, much like several other sources are more than likely confused by the grinch, as it lines up fairly similarly to their info save for incineroar, but are obligated not to say anything because they'd lose ties to Nintendo, likely why all their points are mute as of now.

Using the general concensus upon responses to stances to the leak, this seems like the most likely scenario. There were also probably other characters tossed around in a similar vein, eluding to a "mystery character". The "mystery character" is potentially 1, or potentially several different characters people have heard. The only candidate currently openly known would by Lloyd from Tales of Symphonia. The mystery character is still a bit of an anomaly, as we haven't heard very much in regards to them. Could be more leak bait, or could be a more secret inclusion.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Yeah, the whole insider and community response (larger VG community) has made me want this leak to be true at this point.

Because a lot of people have come out of the woodwork with no proof. This idea of the insider who can’t prove anything is a bull**** one. Especially when it’s utterly conevenient that you can’t name a source for protection or fear of reprocussions. I made my statements on Vergeben with this in mind, and I’ll do it again. Saying you have sources you can’t confirm absolves you of all guilt in the even that you’re wrong and can turn any prediction into a community wide event nowadays.

That’s not enough anymore in my opinion. The video gaming community as a whole has worsened for the way we approach this and supppsed “journalism.” People want the first scoop no matter the cost and turn the rumor mill constantly to find the new exciting things to talk about. More so than any other medium we see a massive shift towards people making unsubstantiated claims, people reported on them and validating them, and then nothing coming of them. All. The. Time. People are attention seeking and want their 15 seconds of internet fame. Video game information isn’t as important as actual police work, I don’t see why the sources have to be held to the same standards of secrecy and information (though funnily enough i’d argue we have lower standards as consistently inconsistent sources still get a lot of credit these days).

I’m aware their are people’s jobs at stake sometimes. I just don’t think you making a statement as an insider means anything or should be contributing to conversations at all without more evidence. People are so information starved that they gladly accept it, but we really shouldn’t. If you have no proof, regardless of your record, I don’t think you have anything to contribute to the conversation. This, seeing Grinch come out real would be satisfying due to the way things have gone this hype cycle (Sadly I don’t think we’ll quite get there).

And this is all to say nothing of how some of these insiders respond with such malice towards the community. I’m sure we’re annoyingly, but asking people to back up a serious claim doesn’t warrant those negative responses...

 

[OpticalBlast]

It's interesting that this leak has caused lots of insiders to give conflicting reports:

- It's completely real, but Incineroar is missing
- Only 4-5 characters from it are in
- It's completely fake
- One of the characters is an assist trophy

There are more, but you get the idea.

Because of this, I think there are two big possibilities as to what happened:

1) The leak is real, and insiders have been fed false information.

2) The leak is the most elaborate hoax of all time, but somehow managed to include a good chunk of the remaining roster.

Another possibility is that insiders are pulling stuff out of their asses, but that's not as exciting haha.

 

[KoopaSaki]

Honestly with all these insiders being in a feeding frenzy of information that normally can’t be proven or disproven, I’m simply going to wait for the next direct that’s hopefully coming this week or next to put this dilemma to rest. I’m just going to say for the record that I’m all in the Isaac is in camp. I just can’t see him being an assist trophy anymore after all this.

 

[Tetiro]

Remember everyone, it is very easy for Sakurai to deconfirm a character. Look how fast Shovel Knight, Ashley, Bomberman, Krystal, Takamaru, Sable and Waluigi were deconfirmed. Despite their popularity/relation to Sakurai

Shadow and Isaac not being deconfirmed yet is a very good sign. Like how Isabelle, Chrom and Dark Samus were hidden from sight until the last minute.

And they still refuse to show him. Until that happens, his chances only increase as it becomes more and more obvious they are hiding something. Had he JUST been an AT, they would have shown him already. Not left him until a month until release.

 

[Kalaam]

Don't lose hope, it's not become some people say he isn't in that it's the case. As long as there is no official statement, it's all fair game. And his chances are very high.

 

[PokiehlthePoet]

I really hope they put more FF music on Midgar... Apparently FF music is expensive to license and thats why theres only two

And on a random side note, I wonder why the AVGN hasn't made a video reacting to Simon/Richter in Smash. I could just be imagining this but I feel like it might be because he's so damn old school and he feels strongly about how they turned out design wise?

Or maybe he simply didn't care. (to steal an Alpharad joke, Simon "does" kind've look like Prince Charming from Shrek...) I like Richters look alot more even though it still feels a little too anime for Castlevania. What about you guys, what do you think of how the Belmont twins ended up looking?

EDITED: So I looked it up and his design in Smash most closely resembles his original artwork. Still, I probably would've found this design cool https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...imonRed.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080227215124

 

[AceyT]

Hi everyone, I'm one french lurker from a long time, at least from the Rathalos twitter picture.
Just wanted to say that I've wanted Isaac since Brawl was in the making. I was happy to see it being an AT back at the time, and I hoped that he would be playable afterward.

As far as it goes for the Grinch leak, I'm really happy that it happened, even if it's may be fake, because it has given us new hope.

Kencineroar & Box theory was really something that I've disliked, but the most strange things that I've noticed (or as it would seems in my eyes) is that none of those who had """insiders""" knowledge speaked up to deconfirmed it until the Grinch happened

 

[TheZoologist]

If this leak is truly legit, you guys will finally get your Golden Boy, the Geno Bois will finally get their Star Child, and us Banjo-Roos will finally FINALLY get our beloved backpacking bear & bird. We're all in this together! Good luck to you all.

 

[TempestSurge]

Sephazon still talking about how Isaac is weird. Reports are conflicting. No one knows if he's in or if he's not. I'm gonna place stock in the hard evidence in favor of Isaac's inclusion. Lean on the possibility that he's in the game.

I will brace for the worst (Assist trophy)
Hope for the best (playable)
And we'll probably walk with something in between (neither)

If he's in, i'll never ask for anything in smash again. If the worst should come, i'll go down with the ship proudly like the lot of us. If we're stuck in the middle than i'll scream loud and proud for DLC. Either way. It has been an honor speculating with you all as we walk into this home stretch.

Which is why insiders feeling weird about Isaac doesn't faze me as it still doesn't change what Isaac has built up in his favor up to this point. Maybe if they said something like, the banner is fake cause there's only 103 stages. Which is a number Sakurai mentioned in August direct and then restated by CoroCoro, so it's public info that shouldn't get the ninjas on them unless they're really not allowed to draw attention with discussion and have been instructed to claim fake.

Considering the esrb leak, it's not crazy to assume that Nintendo has changed their protocol on how they want to handle and damage control in the case of another real leak situation. Either way, it's not as if I expect an insider to ever straight up confirm Isaac's in, if prodded, that would be releasing info that Nintendo themselves have yet to reveal.

 

[Tetiro]

If this leak is truly legit, you guys will finally get your Golden Boy, the Geno Bois will finally get their Star Child, and us Banjo-Roos will finally FINALLY get our beloved backpacking bear & bird. We're all in this together! Good luck to you all.

And we're rooting for you too good chums! From an Isaac supporter to a Banjo supporter, may we all walk into Smash hand in hand.

 

[Tiymako]

Prepare yourself folks, we are taking this thread to outer space!

It is my natural response to take crappy news, and expect the worst results. But hey if he is in, as unlikely as it is, I guess I can take the l with pride.

You stop that sulking and keep your head up high! It's not over until we have seen Isaac in Smash and I believe he is in 100%!! There are too many coincidences surrounding that he is in! I don't want to see that kind of negativity here! It is not over, we have come too far to say that he isn't in! Even if some of us are not convinced, we still have hope and coincidences on our sides! I don't completely agree with the Grinch Leak is real, but I am leaning toward it more and more. I doubt that it is faked, but believe it is in the realm of possibility that it could be fake. Just my opinion, getting that off my chest.

Regardless of which "Leaker" says what, I know deep in my soul that Isaac is in! Just you wait and see! Stay positive and let's all stick to it till the end! We have the power to revive Golden Sun and it is working! Call me crazy, but none of that "It's over" crap.

Let's shine bright until the day our souls dim out!

 

[roydgriffin]

Maybe you remember me, I wanted to let you know that I started working on making a full drawing out of this yesterday, hope i can finish it before a direct hits, it seems very close!
Definitely adding the scarf above that i missed in the sketch, and even thinking of adding a djinn after all...

Edit: phrasing

 

[StrawHatX]

Which is why insiders feeling weird about Isaac doesn't faze me as it still doesn't change what Isaac has built up in his favor up to this point. Maybe if they said something like, the banner is fake cause there's only 103 stages. Which is a number Sakurai mentioned in August direct and then restated by CoroCoro, so it's public info that shouldn't get the ninjas on them unless they're really not allowed to draw attention with discussion and have been instructed to claim fake.

Considering the esrb leak, it's not crazy to assume that Nintendo has changed their protocol on how they want to handle and damage control in the case of another real leak situation. Either way, it's not as if I expect an insider to ever straight up confirm Isaac's in, if prodded, that would be releasing info that Nintendo themselves have yet to reveal.

And Spooky Mystic a day or so ago came out and said he had spoken to enough people that he feels comfortable enough to say he believed Geno and Isaac were in and then he apparently got in trouble and was talking about how he shouldn’t have said anything and his job is in jeopardy.

So who knows.

 

[PokiehlthePoet]

Imagine if... Isaac could actually use summons in Ultimate, but only if you held the Smash Atk button down as long as it could be held. Like Black Mage in SSF2...

If it wasn't broken and was done nicely it would be amazing imo

 

[THE 6r]

Man, what has happened to public discourse? This leak has destroyed any sense of logical debate in the general thread and only the subthreads are still alive. VG Journalism has gone down. The "insiders" have lost all sense of credibility. Websites are running in circles. From what I've read, nothing happened while I was gone?

 

[roydgriffin]

Man, what has happened to public discourse? This leak has destroyed any sense of logical debate in the general thread and only the subthreads are still alive. VG Journalism has gone down. The "insiders" have lost all sense of credibility. Websites are running in circles. From what I've read, nothing happened while I was gone?

There are rumors about a direct hitting soon, not sure if you heard

 

[THE 6r]

There are rumors about a direct hitting soon, not sure if you heard

Oh right, forgot that those are cropping up again. Yeah, it's got to be soon. This has really gotten out of hand. Anything from Nintendo would be welcome now.

 

[StrawHatX]

I like this thread better than the general discussion one. A lot more chill and people aren’t going for one another’s throats.

 

[THE 6r]

I like this thread better than the general discussion one. A lot more chill and people aren’t going for one another’s throats.

But we also have a unifying cause in getting the Golden Boy in Smash. Those in The General Thread are unified by nothing.

 

[Tetiro]

Man, what has happened to public discourse? This leak has destroyed any sense of logical debate in the general thread and only the subthreads are still alive. VG Journalism has gone down. The "insiders" have lost all sense of credibility. Websites are running in circles. From what I've read, nothing happened while I was gone?

You see this is what happens when Waluigi doesn't get added to Smash. Absolute chaos ensures in real life.

I've already got a bag of popcorn ready for the Direct. It's gonna be good

 

[THE 6r]

Fine, who wants 700?