Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[TempestSurge]

I personally will try to take a picture of Isaac and Ike together since those 2 were my most wanted characters for smash since Brawl.

So I can't wait to dual main my team Ikesaac and represent them with my new avater when the time has come <3

Glad to see another team Ikesaac here! He's even next to Ike on the banner mural, stop spoiling me Sakurai! Totally makes up for Ike and Lucas getting separated by King K. Rool. I didn't even realize that would happen so I didn't snip them in time lol.

 

[Deleted member]

Surprised nobody mentioned this little nugget in that thread.

 

[A-Log]

On the topic of music, let's not forget this gem:

This is probably one of my favorite tracks in any game, ever. It really elicits that sense of melancholy and a better age long past.
The moment you sail into Lemuria and hear the quiet eerie melody and realize that this city isn't the legend it's known for anymore, so good.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

On the topic of music, let's not forget this gem:

This is probably one of my favorite tracks in any game, ever. It really elicits that sense of melancholy and a better age long past.
The moment you sail into Lemuria and hear the quiet eerie melody and realize that this city isn't the legend it's known for anymore, so good.

There’s a lot of tracks like that on GS. Tracks that just perfectly fit the situation I mean. And it’s usually the more moody ones that are the best.

Elemental Stars, Lemuria, Altin Peak, Garoh. Such good tracks to just chill to if you’re in one of those moods.

 

[Q-Long]

View attachment 172981

Surprised nobody mentioned this little nugget in that thread.

what is happening here lol

 

[Kalaam]

what is happening here lol

Rough translation: "I'll give you the Mars Elemental Star if you can guess in which hand it is."
Felix: uuuuh...hmmmm.....

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

I'm still team fake. Every credible insider is saying it's fake or incomplete, and I've still not heard a sufficient answer to Omni's observations. My top 3 most wanted are in this leak (Isaac, Geno, Banjo) so the crushing blow of disappointment of it being fake would be lethal to me. I'm prepared to get only 2 newcomers.

 

[spoilerowl]

I'm still team fake. Every credible insider is saying it's fake or incomplete, and I've still not heard a sufficient answer to Omni's observations. My top 3 most wanted are in this leak (Isaac, Geno, Banjo) so the crushing blow of disappointment of it being fake would be lethal to me. I'm prepared to get only 2 newcomers.

For the insiders point, if you have time, I'd strongly recommend this video by PapaGeno's as to why insiders are claiming it fake (I call it "the Incineroar conundrum")

For Omni's observations, I direct you to this post from this very thread which is extremely important insight. Assuming the poster knows what they are talking about, it explains things in ways that make a lot of sense.

Finally, my top 3 are the same you listed, which is why I'm not fully committing 100% to real or fake, just cautiously optimistic. But I think people on Team Fake by and large happen to be disregarding a lot more points than those on Team Real.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

For the insiders point, if you have time, I'd strongly recommend this video by PapaGeno's as to why insiders are claiming it fake (I call it "the Incineroar conundrum")

For Omni's observations, I direct you to this post from this very thread which is extremely important insight. Assuming the poster knows what they are talking about, it explains things in ways that make a lot of sense.

Finally, my top 3 are the same you listed, which is why I'm not fully committing 100% to real or fake, just cautiously optimistic. But I think people on Team Fake by and large happen to be disregarding a lot more points than those on Team Real.

At this point I'm really just trying to protect myself from the potential disappointment. The position I have right now is the one that softens the blow the most, so it's the one I'm going to maintain until we get more information (which is looking to be soon!)
Thanks for the polite reply though, I appreciate that.

 

[THE 6r]

I'm still team real. Yes, many of the things pointed out by those who believe it to be fake are definitely in my mind. However, that being said, the evidence for it being real is overwhelming. Simply, how? How do you do this? How do you have the time to fake this? Assuming that the leaker also has a life the time commitment would be fairly large and people would start to suspect something. No. This can't be premeditated or planned months in advance. The leak fits too perfectly with what we know about the game. The sudden denial of everyone and their brother who claims to have someone in the know? That seems very suspicious. What's even more suspicious is how almost all point to Incineroar being missing, which signals to me something is up. We know devs spread fake info to leakers, Hirada publicly confirmed he did in games he's worked on, who's to say that Nintendo doesn't do the same thing with the biggest, most hyped game in years? I know some of you are choosing to not believe it in order to not get disappointed again, but personal feelings do not factor into the validity of a leak. What we do know is that to have the time to get every one of the small details into the leak just for a few minutes of fame does not line up with leaks in the past. The leaker claiming to be an artist? The blurry nature of the photograph would suggest that nobody in their right mind would come out to claim responsibility for it. The video was taken down showing the alleged company's printing process, does that sound like something an innocent person would do?
Those "discrepancies" that Artsy Omni claimed are fair, but think of it this way. Is the background of Battlefield the main selling point of the game? No. In a normal, Grinchless universe, would a different, simplified background used for promotional materials where detailed background either wouldn't matter (i.e. bracelets) or could potentially draw attention away from the main focus (i.e. a lamp or chandelier) draw much attention? No. The only reason people are nitpicking at the background are because they are comparing two backgrounds with different purposes. The background for the website and E3 can have more detail as those who are looking at it are costumers who have, most likely, already decided to buy the game. The simplified background is for undecided costumers so they can focus more on what the game has to offer. The differences between the two backgrounds do not matter to the average customer on the street. The background is not what is selling the game. The background is only a means to advertise the characters in the game. It is expendable and replaceable.
I don't usually believe leaks because this is Smash. Leaks for Smash are so numerous and conflicting that there's simply no way they can all be right. However, when I first laid eyes upon this leak, I knew right then and there that this had to be real. I'm more than willing to accept the L and be disappointed if this turns out to be fake, but at this point the odds of this being fake are getting lower and lower as time goes on with the leak not being disproven. I understand skepticism, but sometimes you must ignore the few who continue to deny and go with the most logic conclusion. Occam's razor would reason that this is not some crazy conspiracy where some mega genius fouls the world.

Edit: Sorry for the lengthy post and iffy formatting. Just had so many points to get out there.

 

[Gurein]

Uhm, guys?

I have literally every single Ace attorney cornered themes playing in my head right now lol

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

http://i.4cdn.org/v/1540760155616.jpg
ISAAC BROS GET IN HERE

 

[Luigifan18]

What if Isaac was meant to be on the box all along?

 

[Gurein]

Damn. How many coincidences are we going to get? Little Mac's arm gets cut EXACTLY where Isaac ends.
Godamn Little Mac and his leak theories.

 

[Q-Long]

http://i.4cdn.org/v/1540760155616.jpg
ISAAC BROS GET IN HERE

thats probably not vergeben lol

 

[Confirmation]

I remember when a few people were drawing conclusions about the Isaac community based on a few people going ham over assuming the delay being partially due to Isaac.

If this is true, this is Phoenix Wright levels of turnabout.

 

[Malkior7]

http://i.4cdn.org/v/1540760155616.jpg
ISAAC BROS GET IN HERE

That's an insane coincidence.....

 

[Aeon Lupin]

http://i.4cdn.org/v/1540760155616.jpg
ISAAC BROS GET IN HERE

Edit: Nvrm

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

https://www.strawpoll.me/16731435/r
/v/ poll

 

[StormC]

What if Isaac was meant to be on the box all along?

This is what I'm thinking too.

There's no going back from this now. What the everloving hell...

 

[CheckmateChuck]

This is insane. This leak just never stops, does it? I can't believe any of this, somebody pinch me.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Melee: 14 -
Brawl: 18 (If we count Squritle, Ivysaur and Charizard separate) - ()
Sm4sh: 20 (If we count the Miis separate fighters) - ()

In case you missed.

Also Sakurai could had meant previous Smash games as a whole not just each one.

This is sort of a response to the whole number of characters thing as a whole, less specifically you. You were just the last one discussing this subject and I want to sort of put my definitive thoughts on the topic.

If we're relating past game additions to this one, with this leak it surpasses every game in the franchise. If we're going to count Melee's clones as full newcomers, Echo fighters also need to be considered appropriately as such considering how similar most of them were to their original counterparts back in Melee. Dr. Mario, Roy, and Ganondorf were the closest clones at that time (Before they got substantial differentiation in later games) that were in effect Echoes and the remaining Pichu, Young Link, and Falco were very close as well. When we count Dark Pit and Lucina as well, we have to be fair in counting Echo fighters for Smash Ultimate. I think it's also fair to say that any re-introductions have to be counted as characters since they effectively are developmental newcomers. I also don't think we're allowed to say anything of the DLC fighters since they are their own thing at this point.

So we have three different scenarios in which we can consider characters.

Scenario I - All Fighters Not in the Previous Game Count for the Base (Newcomer + Returning)

Melee - = 14

Brawl - = 18

Smash 4 - + = 18

Smash Ultimate - + = 16

Scenario II - Only Newcomers Counting Echoes/Clones

Melee - = 14

Brawl - = 18

Smash 4 - = 17

Smash Ultimate - = 9

Scenario III - Newcomer Excluding Clones and Echoes

Melee - = 8

Brawl* - = 15

Smash 4 - = 15

Smash Ultimate* - = 4

*I do want to make note of the fact I'm choosing not to include semi-clones in this part of the analysis. That's just to be completely fair in treating them all equally and not allowing for debate as to which clones count and which ones don't. I know that Wolf, Lucas, and Isabelle fall into this category of being more deserving, but again, I'm trying to be fair all around.

The Overall Additions to the Franchise - The Overall Additions Game to Game Considering All Characters and Cuts

(C.T. = Character Total for the Series Up Until this Point)

Smash 64 - = 12 Characters

Melee - = +14 Characters = 26 Characters

Brawl - = +18 New Characters - 5 Cut Characters () = + 13 Additions Overall = 39 Characters on the Roster (C.T. = 44)

Smash 4 - = +17 New Characters - 6 Cut Characters() + 1 Returning Character () = +12 Additions = 51 Characters on the Roster (C.T.= 60)

Smash 4 DLC (For the Sake of Demonstration) = = + 4 + 3 Returning Characters () = +7 = 58 Characters on the Roster (C.T. = 65)

Smash Ultimate - = +9 New Characters +7 Returning Characters () = +16 Additions= 74 Characters on the Roster (C.T. = 74)

Conclusion:

Depending on how you approach the additions from game to game, you can get quite different indications of just what has been added from game to game. When you consider the pure act of what has been added from game to game, Ultimate starts to look a lot more favorably as a game that adds a lot. Since Ultimate cuts no veterans, it actually has the highest number of additions to the series of any single game. Without factoring cuts, it's only two shy of additions for Ultimate and Brawl, and two above Melee.

It's only once clone characters and those additions start being treated differently that Ultimate starts to look a little worse for wear. It is completely dwarfed by Brawl and Smash 4 in unique newcomers, and still healthily passed by Melee. Counting Echoes improves the situation, but only marginally.

The interesting thing to note, for me at least, is that Smash Ultimate's newcomers are still coming and incomplete. That speaks to just how much work has gone into making Ultimate. It already has more additions than past games, and even more will continue to extend that gap. If the Grinch leak is true, these additions get expanded from the current 16 to an amazing 22, which is approaching double the past two games.

This is all to say, Ultimate is an amazing game. This analysis does nothing to factor in the changes of characters between games or the effort involved in bringing back old characters, which are amazing feats that involve lots of development as well. I've wanted to do this analysis for a long time, and I'm a little surprised by the results. I think it's good to have this in mind when people bring up the newcomer situation of this game in line with Sakurai's comments. We certainly have a below average of unique newcomers as is, and a couple won't necessarily change that situation all too much. There is a phenomenal amount of effort and development already on display in Smash.



With the Grinch leak (And this part of the post independently exists in comparison to the analysis), things seem amazing in terms of additions. Sakurai's comments on the focus of the game being on returning veterans and not expecting newcomers makes so much sense to me as an earnest statement. There's a lot of development time in the game already, and one does have to wonder where the limits of a development process are. Five more unique newcomers sounds insane to me at this point, which is one of the reasons I've been so reluctant to accept the Grinch leak. I can't reconcile how this leak would fit into all of Sakurai's comments and the current state of things as is, and I likely never will if the leak turns out to be true. No one has to listen to me, and feel free to use the above analysis as you wish, but this is me conveying my opinion and understanding of the roster situation as is. Each analysis provides context for an opinion if your consistent in how you're treating characters and clones. I hope it's helpful beyond this context, and I hope it clears up a little of why I have such a hard time making sense of the leak with relation to Sakurai's personal comments.

Again, this is all to say, Ultimate is an incredible achievement for the Smash series and if the Grinch leak is true, a game like Smash Ultimate is doubtful to ever be topped.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Grinch leak aside, the positioning deal, the item, and the ratholos screenshot have convinced me that Isaac has a real shot now.

 

[Accursed]

Maybe the Golden Sun was actually the friends we made along the way.

Happy Golden Sunday, bros.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

http://i.4cdn.org/v/1540760155616.jpg
ISAAC BROS GET IN HERE

What am I looking at here? Was this a glitch on the website or something?

 

[Ookami Ryo]

Team its Real There
I am a little disappointed about no Felix but oh well at least Isaac is (basically) in i am very happy about that . As tracks from Golden Sun I d like
1. The Dark Dawn Battle Themes medley
2. Isaac and Saturos battle themes (why not Jenna or Agatio and Karst's one too)
3. The last world map from The Lost Age
4. Lighthouses and (or) Rocks theme medley
5. A renewal of Doom Dragon and Felix Battle Themes
For Isaac's Moveset he could use melee Djinns like Flint for his smash, his sword as tilt jab and aerials and his Psynergy as specials. his Final Smash could be an all out attack with his team (like MegaMan) that finish with a summon also that would be great to see them or Odyssey because it is the strongest Venus psynergy or Judgment the strongest Venus based Summon or Titan Blade because why not (imo the Sol Blade is not his prf weapon even if he can use it in GS2 it is more Felix or Matthew's but for some reasons i cannot not see them giving him...so...Meggido i guess). From we have seen in Golden Sun at Colosso he is also a skilled swordfighter that have been pointed out by Babi when he said he could have win even without his psynergy (also said that bacause i havent used it in those fights it's not funny otherwise) so he must not waste it because of the "another sword user" thing...

 

[FlintIke]

What am I looking at here? Was this a glitch on the website or something?

Yes I remember this as well but I didn't think too much of it at that time since I only thought it might've been bug or something.

But now knowing the Grinch Leak, it's a whole other story.

 

[Gurein]

Here's a picture better explaining the whole deal.

 

[Centishooter555]

What am I looking at here? Was this a glitch on the website or something?

Maybe this image will help you realize what happened:

 

[FamicomDisk]

http://i.4cdn.org/v/1540760155616.jpg
ISAAC BROS GET IN HERE

Holy crap! The cut off lines up exactly with Isaac's position!

I've always believed the leak was real, but I've kept the possibility of it being fake in mind just in case. But I'm seriously starting to wonder how this could possibly be fake at this point!

If the leak IS somehow fake, the person behind it is the most eagle-eyed faker in Smash history. What an impressive find!

 

[FlintIke]

Guys I srsly don't care now it's confirmed. Isaac is in Smash. That was after the earthquake and everything

Out of all leaked characters, Isaac is the only one that can be delayed because of it.

HE IS IN <3

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Here's a picture better explaining the whole deal.
View attachment 173013

Wow, I think this must be it.

Like actually it....holy crap.

 

[BravadoMan_13]

http://i.4cdn.org/v/1540760155616.jpg
ISAAC BROS GET IN HERE

Whoa

 

[Icana]

http://i.4cdn.org/v/1540760155616.jpg
ISAAC BROS GET IN HERE

Wait, what? Is this from official material?

Also, was Mac's glove cut in the mural before Isabelle too? Because that could lend potential credence that a certain Earth Adept's reveal was delayed by a certain Earthquake that would deem him too sensitive and potentially lead to a rushed edit like this.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I remember when a few people were drawing conclusions about the Isaac community based on a few people going ham over assuming the delay being partially due to Isaac.

If this is true, this is Phoenix Wright levels of turnabout.

This honestly feels like one of those moments in an Ace Attorney game when something that was mentioned way earlier in the case you thought was irrelevant turns out to be what gets a not guilty verdict.

 

[N3ON]

I don’t think Isaac has ever received as much attention as he has in the last week. Certainly not in the past eight years.

However this ends up, this leak has done a lot for him, and for that I’m happy. :D

 

[Yggdra]

Oh wow, i have been absent from this thread because of university, then i come back and it seems like a storm happened here. There's so much thats been hard to keep up; not even mentioning catching up to this point, i read everything on a surface level, so i apologise in advance if i missed something.

Honestly, i don't remember things being so exciting during the smash 4 days. Regarding my stance with the leak, i had some doubts, but right now, it seems pretty solid, if not, this would be hands down the best fake leak ever. Period.

Here's a picture better explaining the whole deal.
View attachment 173013

I mean, this is already too much. Seriously, it's pretty tough to believe that this thing is not real at this point.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

Here's a picture better explaining the whole deal.
View attachment 173013

A team real anon debunked that in a /v/ thread

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The banner on the website is actually multiple pictures combined together

It's possible that one just hadn't updated

 

[Arteen]

View attachment 173016

The banner on the website is actually multiple pictures combined together

It's possible that one just hadn't updated

Yep. That's literally right where the images normally split.

https://www.smashbros.com/assets_v2/img/top/hero02_en.jpg
https://www.smashbros.com/assets_v2/img/top/hero03_en.jpg