Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[EricTheGamerman]

The big issue I have against "hype responsibly" is that the actual message is to be pessimistic about basically everything, when we have yet to have reason to be pessimistic about basically anything.

You may believe however you wish. That is entirely your prerogative. When we get messages almost every page about how we should be "lowering our expectations" and "ignoring circumstantial evidence", it gets to be excessive. You aren't going to change the minds of people who believe Isaac is in, and we aren't going to change yours. That's just the reality.

So let's get back to not controlling hype please

That’s missing the point of what I’m saying when I say that though. It’s not saying be pessimistic, it’s use the logic we’re given to make points for his inclusion.

When people begin to really step out of the realm of that logic to make proofs is where I have problems and think it can be a bit of a bad look for the community (Again, coming from someone who was deep in Ridley support and know the end point, though many may here too). I think when people make illogical leaps to somehow say Isaac is more likely or that there are more chances for newcomers to be revealed in say multiple Directs, it’s important to discuss how they might not make sense as much as anything, lest we become an Echo chamber of pure positivity which isn’t actually all that conducive to actual discussions.

That’s sort of the issue this thread has, it’s grown so big and gone through basically all the discussion about the character himself that were left with the speculation. And speculation generally has a little less discussion to it overall, and can involve significantly more negativity as you’re discussing chances of something happening.

I neither believe Isaac is in, nor that he isn’t. I just believe he has a serious chance at one of the limited roster spots and that’s where the majority of my hype responsibly goes towards, that there aren’t a lot of newcomers left given just how much that has been reenforced by Sakurai himself and the basic limited time frame to release.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Let's please not blame Sakurai if Isaac isn't in. Just no

We blame ourselves for failing Isaac-dono. Then we commit seppuku. And then we campaign for DLC or whatever.

 

[NessAtc.]

That’s missing the point of what I’m saying when I say that though. It’s not saying be pessimistic, it’s use the logic we’re given to make points for his inclusion.

When people begin to really step out of the realm of that logic to make proofs is where I have problems and think it can be a bit of a bad look for the community (Again, coming from someone who was deep in Ridley support and know the end point, though many may here too). I think when people make illogical leaps to somehow say Isaac is more likely or that there are more chances for newcomers to be revealed in say multiple Directs, it’s important to discuss how they might not make sense as much as anything, lest we become an Echo chamber of pure positivity which isn’t actually all that conducive to actual discussions.

That’s sort of the issue this thread has, it’s grown so big and gone through basically all the discussion about the character himself that were left with the speculation. And speculation generally has a little less discussion to it overall, and can involve significantly more negativity as you’re discussing chances of something happening.

I neither believe Isaac is in, nor that he isn’t. I just believe he has a serious chance at one of the limited roster spots and that’s where the majority of my hype responsibly goes towards, that there aren’t a lot of newcomers left given just how much that has been reenforced by Sakurai himself and the basic limited time frame to release.

My little rant was less about your post, and more about the "hype responsibly" mentality in general.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

Hey, we hit 25,000!

 

[TappyBat]

yaaaaaaay!

 

[ArkSPiTFirE]

I'm still holding out for base roster until the upcoming direct confirms or says otherwise. I just have a strong feeling. For a first party character he's been excluded for too long.

 

[Malkior7]

Funny reveal trailer concept

Isaac is in a ruins looking for an unknown Djinn gets to where the Djinn is and it turns out to be Shantae.

That would be pretty awesome haha

 

[THE 6r]

25,000!!!!

 

[QcSlayer]

I agree. I tried to make a list of things about the Rathalos picture that seem like odes to Golden Sun.

That GS angle.
Arena is kind of a major setting in GS.
Big ol monster.
Silent protagonist.
Blonde kid with mental powers.
Blue-haired girl.

If Roy was in there, I would’ve been sold. But screw Garrett, I guess.

Marth name can be Mars, it was is name in the FE ova, he is a better fit then Roy.

Apparently when you traduce Japanese to english sometime both s and th ending means the same thing.

Ex Aerith/Aeris FF7

 

[Nazyrus]

We gonna get 700 pages when he gets revealed … isn't it?

 

[SonicLink125]

We gonna get 700 pages when he gets revealed … isn't it?

If that's what it takes, then so be it. As long as Isaac is revealed as a PC.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

I agree. I tried to make a list of things about the Rathalos picture that seem like odes to Golden Sun.

That GS angle.
Arena is kind of a major setting in GS.
Big ol monster.
Silent protagonist.
Blonde kid with mental powers.
Blue-haired girl.

If Roy was in there, I would’ve been sold. But screw Garrett, I guess.

“blue haired girl” lol I’m about to blow your mind here. Marth was not meant to represent Mia. He’s meant to represent Garet.

Garet is a Mars Adept. Known for fire.

Marth is from “Fire” Emblem. Not only that, but his name in Japanese is Marusu which LITERALLY translates to Mars...

 

[Delta64]

If that's what it takes, then so be it. As long as Isaac is revealed as a PC.

Little Mac: "Hello I'm a Mac."
Isaac: "And I'm a PC."
...
I'm tired.

 

[FlintIke]

“blue haired girl” lol I’m about to blow your mind here. Marth was not meant to represent Mia. He’s meant to represent Garet.

Garet is a Mars Adept. Known for fire.

Marth is from “Fire” Emblem. Not only that, but his name in Japanese is Marusu which LITERALLY translates to Mars...

Exactly and correct me if I am wrong since it's been a while since I played GS last, but didn't Ivan have "visions" too which is the reason why Shulk was chosen?

So given that it's way too far-fetched to be called a coincidence at this point that they went with Link,Marth and Shulk in that order with those exact characters that each match one trait of each of the 3 characters from GS.
I just can't force myself to believe that this isn't supposed to be a GS reference. It's just too many facts that go for it!

 

[JaidynReiman]

We gonna get 700 pages when he gets revealed … isn't it?

690.

 

[KoopaSaki]

Funny reveal trailer concept

Isaac is in a ruins looking for an unknown Djinn gets to where the Djinn is and it turns out to be Shantae.

That would be pretty awesome haha

I would lose my mind and be the happiest man alive if both her and Isaac were revealed in the same reveal trailer. I pray every night for both of them to make it in as playable characters!

 

[Q-Long]

marth is best waifu tho

 

[aztimh]

Here’s a thought... will DLC fighters be added to the banner art? I really wanna get it but not if it’s incomplete (like the E3 one).

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Here’s a thought... will DLC fighters be added to the banner art? I really wanna get it but not if it’s incomplete (like the E3 one).

Speaking of banner art, what pose would Isaac have in it?

 

[SonicLink125]

marth is best waifu tho

...B-but Lucina is th-OOOOHHHH!!! It's because Marth has a Tiara, right? What if that was the Super Crown in disguise?

Speaking of banner art, what pose would Isaac have in it?

Maybe similar to his official art where he's lifting a giant piece of earth? That would be cool!

 

[Q-Long]

...B-but Lucina is th-OOOOHHHH!!! It's because Marth has a Tiara, right? What if that was the Super Crown in disguise?


Maybe similar to his official art where he's lifting a giant piece of earth? That would be cool!

lol me and a friend always argue who is cuter

 

[pholtos]

Speaking of banner art, what pose would Isaac have in it?

Isaac sitting on a floating rock.

As for the whole Shulk Ivan thing. I explained it before but I'll say it again as a reminder.
Jupiter Adepts have the ability to see into the future, Ivan never needed to, so he never gained the ability. But it is a Jupiter Adept trait to be able to.

 

[DogManStar]

I've been replaying the games; Hama mentions that foresight is a major ability of Jupiter adepts and that Ivan can use it. He never needs to use it and it's not really mentioned again beyond that point as far as I remember, but it's definitely a trait of theirs.

 

[jweb23]

Okay so I just wanted to give my honest expectations going into the final few weeks of Smash Ultimate speculation. Before I start I’ll first explain that my thoughts are centered around the various rumors/leaks that have not yet been debunked and honestly can’t be until the game’s release. So now I’ll begin!

Some reputable sources are claiming we will have two directs in November, the first being a general direct and the last being Smash focused. (Interestingly enough I went back to look at how directs were during Smash 4 release time and in 2014 we got a Smash direct on October 23rd followed by a general direct less than two weeks later on November 5th.) Assuming this all turns out to be true then I believe we have 3-4 unique newcomers and 2-3 echoes left.

For the general direct I can see 1-2 characters revealed. Either two newcomers with one being used to announce an upcoming game at the beginning and one that casuals can easily recognize at the end which is used to announce the upcoming Smash Direct. OR...one newcomer with their echo used to announce an upcoming game. For the casual newcomer we all can easily assume that would be Incineroar who would most likely be shown at the end after the Let’s Go games are highlighted. As for the newcomer used to promote a new game...I’m quite sure we all know about the rumored Golden Sun collection coming to the 3ds. In all honesty with how poor the sales were for Dark Dawn the only feasible reason to dip into Golden Sun again is if they saw how popular Isaac was in the ballot and Sakurai chose Isaac to be playable so they will use that sudden popularity to revive the series in the same way they did Kid Icarus after Brawl! Now with what I just said in mind, let’s assume the direct is one newcomer and their echo. Assuming the Golden Sun collection rumor is legit then it wouldn’t surprise me if we got Isaac with Felix as his echo as the collection would of course be the original two games combined at least. Maybe Dark Dawn with it too but they would most likely highlight those two as the original protagonists.

After that we would have the Smash direct and I see us getting around 4 characters. Two newcomers and two echoes. Ken and a Square Enix rep (Geno) are the most likely choices. I’m thinking Dixie Kong and some other character they are doing a good job at hiding like they did with King K Rool and Isaac.

So scenario 1:
Isaac
Incineroar
Ken
Dixie Kong
Geno
“Someone not obvious”

Scenario 2:
Isaac
Felix
Incineroar
Ken
Dixie Kong
Geno

Also, I have nothing against any video game character, I’m just not confident in Skull Kid and Shadow being playable or bosses. Anyways, these are the final characters I’m expecting as well as how they will be shown.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Okay so I just wanted to give my honest expectations going into the final few weeks of Smash Ultimate speculation. Before I start I’ll first explain that my thoughts are centered around the various rumors/leaks that have not yet been debunked and honestly can’t be until the game’s release. So now I’ll begin!

Some reputable sources are claiming we will have two directs in November, the first being a general direct and the last being Smash focused. (Interestingly enough I went back to look at how directs were during Smash 4 release time and in 2014 we got a Smash direct on October 23rd followed by a general direct less than two weeks later on November 5th.) Assuming this all turns out to be true then I believe we have 3-4 unique newcomers and 2-3 echoes left.

For the general direct I can see 1-2 characters revealed. Either two newcomers with one being used to announce an upcoming game at the beginning and one that casuals can easily recognize at the end which is used to announce the upcoming Smash Direct. OR...one newcomer with their echo used to announce an upcoming game. For the casual newcomer we all can easily assume that would be Incineroar who would most likely be shown at the end after the Let’s Go games are highlighted. As for the newcomer used to promote a new game...I’m quite sure we all know about the rumored Golden Sun collection coming to the 3ds. In all honesty with how poor the sales were for Dark Dawn the only feasible reason to dip into Golden Sun again is if they saw how popular Isaac was in the ballot and Sakurai chose Isaac to be playable so they will use that sudden popularity to revive the series in the same way they did Kid Icarus after Brawl! Now with what I just said in mind, let’s assume the direct is one newcomer and their echo. Assuming the Golden Sun collection rumor is legit then it wouldn’t surprise me if we got Isaac with Felix as his echo as the collection would of course be the original two games combined at least. Maybe Dark Dawn with it too but they would most likely highlight those two as the original protagonists.

After that we would have the Smash direct and I see us getting around 4 characters. Two newcomers and two echoes. Ken and a Square Enix rep (Geno) are the most likely choices. I’m thinking Dixie Kong and some other character they are doing a good job at hiding like they did with King K Rool and Isaac.

So scenario 1:
Isaac
Incineroar
Ken
Dixie Kong
Geno
“Someone not obvious”

Scenario 2:
Isaac
Felix
Incineroar
Ken
Dixie Kong
Geno

Also, I have nothing against any video game character, I’m just not confident in Skull Kid and Shadow being playable or bosses. Anyways, these are the final characters I’m expecting as well as how they will be shown.

Make ‘someone not obvious’ Bandanna Dee and you got yourself a deal.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

i think our last characters are

geno
isaac
shantae
incineroar
ken
shadow

 

[Wwlink55]

Shantae fan here. While I dont know much about Golden Sun, this speculation scene has made me feel like he would be a great inclusion, so here's hoping we get both Isaac and Shantae in!

 

[Xenigma]

As someone who hasn't been posting recently because of the drought of news: y'all are crazy and I love you

 

[N3ON]

"rising" is a stretch. We had two 2-character weeks in a row, and yes, that can potentially continue, it doesn't seem to have, and we might even see another 4-character week come up as well. I'd say roughly 3-5 is a good estimate, but it could easily go higher or lower depending on what happens.

It's enough to make conclusions predicated on schedules of maintained 3-character weeks unreliable.

 

[KoopaSaki]

The guys over at the Shantae thread are hunching on a direct on the 25th this week with Shantae being revealed. Does anyone think we are due for any sort of news this month or has decided that we gotta wait till November?

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

The guys over at the Shantae thread are hunching on a direct on the 25th this week with Shantae being revealed. Does anyone think we are due for any sort of news this month or has decided that we gotta wait till November?

The -semi reliable- sources are indicating two directs, one smash, one general, for november. These people tend to have semi decent projections so imma just stick with that assumption. That having been said, god I hope we get something this week. The waits been very painful.

 

[clearandsweet]

The waits been very painful.

I can't even finish Octopath or Valkyria Chronicles 4. I gotta know if Isaac is in Smash. I'm just here for no reason. Why am I here there's not going to be any news at 11pm on a Monday. There's no content no leaks no speculation that hasn't been speculated.

What if they don't announce a direct this week. Omg. That means it'll be next week. Has to. Haaaas to. Where are all the leaks there should be more leaks closer to release date. The game was rated by the ESRB where is my ESRB leak.

Bruh I gotta know. Those lucky K. Rool fans knowing all early. I need info. I have to know. That Sakurai got me. He ****ing boomed me.

He's so good.

 

[GoodGrief741]

The guys over at the Shantae thread are hunching on a direct on the 25th this week with Shantae being revealed. Does anyone think we are due for any sort of news this month or has decided that we gotta wait till November?

Never say never. Personally, with the releases of Halloween, Red Dead Redemption 2, and new seasons of Daredevil and Castlevania, I got enough going on that I don’t mind waiting until November.

September, now that was a boring month overall.

 

[Tiymako]

*Slams the bench* I still believe in Isaac! I do think he'll be playable.

TAKE THAT!!

 

[Q-Long]

TAKE THAT!!

I heard his voice lol

 

[MeatOfJustice]

So I made 3 lists of my predictions, the 2nd one is the least biased:

Spoiler: Pessimistic (as least of newcomers as possible):

Ken ε
Shadow ε
Geno
Incineroar

Spoiler: Reasonable (in between both, balancing echoes and numbered):

Ken ε
Shadow ε
Geno
Isaac/Incineroar
Incineroar/Dixie Kong ε/Felix ε

Spoiler: Hopeful (GS biased, but a reasonable number of newcomers):

Ken ε
Shadow ε
Geno
Isaac
Felix ε
Incineroar

-
The next big Nintendo event is November 3rd, so I'm expecting something next week.

 

[GoodGrief741]

So I made 3 lists of my predictions, the 2nd one is the least biased:

Spoiler: Pessimistic (as least of newcomers as possible):

Ken ε
Shadow ε
Geno
Incineroar

Spoiler: Reasonable (in between both, balancing echoes and numbered):

Ken ε
Shadow ε
Geno
Isaac/Incineroar
Incineroar/Dixie Kong ε/Felix ε

Spoiler: Hopeful (GS biased, but a reasonable number of newcomers):

Ken ε
Shadow ε
Geno
Isaac
Felix ε
Incineroar

-
The next big Nintendo event is November 3rd, so I'm expecting something next week.

I might be crazy, but I’m expecting 5 more newcomers as a bare minimum.

Am I the only one who feels 8 is a reasonable expectation?

 

[?!?!?!]

Golden sun was released November 11th in NA

Don't put any merit into what I'm saying but if a direct is on the first week of November, it COULD line up maybe. Just a little thought

 

[Undella2]

Inb4 Sakurai decides to add 7 Golden Sun characters into the game, and 3 of them are clones of Isaac. /s

Anyway, I think that somewhere between 3-5 unique newcomers and 2-3 echoes/semiclones seems like a reasonable number for newcomers.

 

[Delta64]

I might be crazy, but I’m expecting 5 more newcomers as a bare minimum.

Am I the only one who feels 8 is a reasonable expectation?

I feel like I am taking a pessimistic approach with two unique and one echo. (This is the minimum amount I expect).