Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Ura]

Link could have ready'd his bow, the characters could have used a more dynamic pose. It's either a Golden Sun or reference or just a cool picture as Sakurai said, but certainly not a Monster Hunter reference.

Or that lol. Basically us as a community reaching conclusions regardless of what merit there is to our evidence.

The picture was done in a very meticulous way where it resembles a Golden Sun battle; Link, Marth, and Shulk all in the same formation as Isaac and his party would be. There was also a big Reddit post that went in to detail about how the picture references Golden Sun even more. I just don't want to jump to conclusions and say Isaac's in for sure especially in the face of their being only 103 stages potentially. Whether you believe that or not.

Here's hoping for our Golden Boy anyways. November can't come soon enough.

 

[TappyBat]

people were calling me stupid yesterday (not here you guys are cool) thinking it was a GS reference. "lol what a loser! it's a monster hunter reference you idoit!"

 

[?!?!?!]

people were calling me stupid yesterday (not here you guys are cool) thinking it was a GS reference. "lol what a loser! it's a monster hunter reference you idoit!"

Don't pay attention to people like that, not worth your time

 

[MatthewVenusAdept]

Someone made Isaac in SC6!
https://mobile.twitter.com/JupiterDjinn/status/1054212592598765568

Don't forget everyone that the Composer Theory is still going strong for Isaac. Motoi is STILL MIA.

Lol I made him too!

 

[SonicLink125]

I wouldn't be that fast to ascertain that.

I'm of mind that said picture was indeed a Golden Sun reference but at the same time there's always the chance that we looked in to it too much and it's just referencing Monster Hunter.

That's the weirdest part though. Every time we try to see if it's a MH reference, it completely falls apart. If they wanted to reference MH, they would have had Cloud and Dedede in the pic and in a stage like Garu Plain. But as soon as you see it as a Golden Sun reference, it holds a ton of weight. More so than we think. In fact, it looks like the characters were moved to look like they are facing Rathalos. Many pages ago, I tried to duplicate the same pic in Smash 4 (see attachment) and to my surprise, I could not replicate it at all. This pic was done on purpose to reference GS in many ways. Until Sakurai says that Isaac is not in the game, I will believe this pic is a reference to Isaac being playable.

 

[KMDP]

assist trophy

Thanks.

It was already explained to me.

Someone made Isaac in SC6!
https://mobile.twitter.com/JupiterDjinn/status/1054212592598765568

Don't forget everyone that the Composer Theory is still going strong for Isaac. Motoi is STILL MIA.

A bit too barrel chested for my liking; but that aside, the outfit is impressively similar.
Man, I want Soulcalibur VI... but I have to wait... DAMMIT!

 

[Q-Long]

Can I just say I hope that either Isaac's taunt or Victory screen show the Emoji's that the games use to covey options selected by the player?

Love your pic!

 

[Chiroz]

That's the weirdest part though. Every time we try to see if it's a MH reference, it completely falls apart. If they wanted to reference MH, they would have had Cloud and Dedede in the pic and in a stage like Garu Plain. But as soon as you see it as a Golden Sun reference, it holds a ton of weight. More so than we think. In fact, it looks like the characters were moved to look like they are facing Rathalos. Many pages ago, I tried to duplicate the same pic in Smash 4 (see attachment) and to my surprise, I could not replicate it at all. This pic was done on purpose to reference GS in many ways. Until Sakurai says that Isaac is not in the game, I will believe this pic is a reference to Isaac being playable.

Use a mod that unlocks the camera in pause. Also put the characters closer together (walk them until they bump with each other). Then angle the camera a bit more. Remember that Link now holds his sword in the opposite hand and on a very different post.

You’ll get extremely similar results. And no, it’s not some “debug” they need to do this massive work around. Camera lock on pause is probably just a boolean plus 2-4 float values (for min/max x/y value) that can be easily changed and changed back in like 30 seconds if it’s not already changed anyways in Ultimate.



On a side note, I kind of hate how ironic it is that you guys are so oblivious to your own behavior. Like people saying: “Sakurai says he doesn’t want to “talk” to us anymore because anything he says we try to overanalyze and give meaning to that it never was supposed to have.

...So if we overanalyze this and give it meaning that it never was supposed to have we can fairly easily assume that he would never provide a picture that allowed us to overanalyze and give it meaning it should never have even though we can do that to any picture in existence. So if he gave us any picture at all, any overanalyzation and meaning we give that picture is therefore true.”

You are not only doing exactly what he said he is afraid you are going to do, but you are doing it to various statements simultaneously. Like seriously, Sakurai is just reinforced to never interact with us in a “fun” matter, he will only ever be able to post actual concrete information and never just post something because he likes it or finds it amusing.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Use a mod that unlocks the camera in pause. Also put the characters closer together (walk them until they bump with each other). Then angle the camera a bit more. Remember that Link now holds his sword in the opposite hand and on a very different post.

You’ll get extremely similar results. And no, it’s not some “debug” they need to do this massive work around. Camera lock on pause is probably just a boolean plus 2-4 float values (for min/max x/y value) that can be easily changed and changed back in like 30 seconds if it’s not already changed anyways in Ultimate.



On a side note, I kind of hate how ironic it is that you guys are so oblivious to your own behavior. Like people saying: “Sakurai says he doesn’t want to “talk” to us anymore because anything he says we try to overanalyze and give meaning to that it never was supposed to have.

...So if we overanalyze this and give it meaning that it never was supposed to have we can fairly easily assume that he would never provide a picture that allowed us to overanalyze and give it meaning it should never have even though we can do that to any picture in existence. So if he gave us any picture at all, any overanalyzation and meaning we give that picture is therefore true.”

You are not only doing exactly what he said he is afraid you are going to do, but you are doing it to various statements simultaneously. Like seriously, Sakurai is just reinforced to never interact with us in a “fun” matter, he will only ever be able to post actual concrete information and never just post something because he likes it or finds it amusing.

Even if it is a GS reference, it doesn't automatically mean that he's hinting at Isaac. The last game had a ton of JoJo references.

 

[Chiroz]

Even if it is a GS reference, it doesn't automatically mean that he's hinting at Isaac. The last game had a ton of JoJo references.

I’ve never watched JoJo, what would you say was a reference to it?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I’ve never watched JoJo, what would you say was a reference to it?

Here are the references.

 

[TappyBat]

Even if it is a GS reference, it doesn't automatically mean that he's hinting at Isaac. The last game had a ton of JoJo references.

so no isaac?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

so no isaac?

Not necessarily. It just means we shouldn't really rely on the idea that Sakurai is teasing us by tweeting that picture.

 

[SorMago]

I still like Isaac's chances. Anyone got any other ideas as to what the Rathalos picture could be referencing if not GS? and I will count this to Isaac being playable if it is a GS reference why just hints and not a trophy shown?

 

[?!?!?!]

Even if it is a GS reference, it doesn't automatically mean that he's hinting at Isaac. The last game had a ton of JoJo references.

Yeah but like, Jojo isn't Nintendo property I don't think the comparison is valid

Don't get me wrong I don't think this tweet guarantees anything but I'm just saying we aren't crazy for thinking this reference COULD potentially mean something

 

[SonicLink125]

Even if the Rathalos pic was not intended to be a reference, Isaac's chances are still incredibly high. We just have to keep supporting him and play the waiting game as well.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

There’s nothing concrete about the tweet, sure, but you can’t deny that there isn’t a lot of GS going on in that picture, and it even extends beyond the camera angle. Even the characters chosen seem to be references to the GS cast.

I’m not saying it means Isaac is in the game 100%. But if it was simply a “neat picture” then hot damn that’s one helluva coincidence. And it means Sakurai had no idea what he was doing. Which I find hard to believe. I think he knew exactly what he was doing with this tweet.

And if it was a GS reference, but no playable Isaac, then this would be a terrible move for Saks to make. We’ve already been jaded once and it hurt. He poked the GS hive with this tweet. If it doesn’t pan out a lot of people will be upset.

 

[TappyBat]

then it would be our fault getting our hopes up when there was nothing there in the first place

 

[NessAtc.]

I wouldn't be that fast to ascertain that.

I'm of mind that said picture was indeed a Golden Sun reference but at the same time there's always the chance that we looked in to it too much and it's just referencing Monster Hunter.

If it's referencing MH, it's an extremely terrible reference to it.

 

[AmateurKnight23]

There’s nothing concrete about the tweet, sure, but you can’t deny that there isn’t a lot of GS going on in that picture, and it even extends beyond the camera angle. Even the characters chosen seem to be references to the GS cast.

I’m not saying it means Isaac is in the game 100%. But if it was simply a “neat picture” then hot damn that’s one helluva coincidence. And it means Sakurai had no idea what he was doing. Which I find hard to believe. I think he knew exactly what he was doing with this tweet.

And if it was a GS reference, but no playable Isaac, then this would be a terrible move for Saks to make. We’ve already been jaded once and it hurt. He poked the GS hive with this tweet. If it doesn’t pan out a lot of people will be upset.

I agree. I tried to make a list of things about the Rathalos picture that seem like odes to Golden Sun.

That GS angle.
Arena is kind of a major setting in GS.
Big ol monster.
Silent protagonist.
Blonde kid with mental powers.
Blue-haired girl.

If Roy was in there, I would’ve been sold. But screw Garrett, I guess.

 

[Ura]

If it's referencing MH, it's an extremely terrible reference to it.

Touche lol. Especially when Sakurai goes out his way to make the picture heavily resemble Golden Sun the way he did.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

One interesting factoid about the tweet is that it's the only game footage to be posted on Sakurai's twitter that wasn't previously shown in directs or as a retweet from somebody else. It was an in-game screenshot made from the ground up for his Twitter. and in this cycle of pre-release Smash, it's the only one of its kind. Since it's being passed off as simply an "awesome picture" by Sakurai, isn't it a little strange that no others like it exist for a similar purpose of simply showing off the game?

You look at his Twitter since June and the only things you'll find alongside the Rathalos tweet are retweets, links to the directs that contained Smash content, real world pictures, posters, controllers/bundles, and promotions of future Smash events.

 

[NessAtc.]

One interesting factoid about the tweet is that it's the only game footage to be posted on Sakurai's twitter that wasn't previously shown in directs or as a retweet from somebody else. It was an in-game screenshot made from the ground up for his Twitter. and in this cycle of pre-release Smash, it's the only one of its kind. Since it's being passed off as simply an "awesome picture" by Sakurai, isn't it a little strange that no others like it exist for a similar purpose of simply showing off the game?

You look at his Twitter since June and the only things you'll find alongside the Rathalos tweet are retweets, links to the directs that contained Smash content, real world pictures, posters, controllers/bundles, and promotions of future Smash events.

well actually the image exists on the website, but yes, it is strange that thus far, it's literally the only image of the game he's posted on twitter

 

[SonicLink125]

I agree. I tried to make a list of things about the Rathalos picture that seem like odes to Golden Sun.

That GS angle.
Arena is kind of a major setting in GS.
Big ol monster.
Silent protagonist.
Blonde kid with mental powers.
Blue-haired girl.

If Roy was in there, I would’ve been sold. But screw Garrett, I guess.

Even Rathalos has similar attacks that the Fusion Dragon like Deadly Gas.

Marth's name in Japanese is pronounced "Mars" and he's from Fire Emblem. Like a Mars Adept who uses fire? A stretch maybe, but its there.

Shulk and Ivan not only can see the future, but they both hold a valuable weapon/item that the antagonists want (Monado/Shamon's Rod)

Link, Marth and Shulk represent 3 of Nintendo's biggest Adventure/RPG games, but Golden Sun is missing? Hmm?

Link, Marth & Shulk appear in order of their appearance both in Smash and when their games debut. Link=64, Marth=Melee, Shulk=Smash 4. But no Brawl? Isaac was an AT in Brawl, right? Hmm?

The list just goes on and on that makes me think, this can't be a coincidence.

But IF it turns out it was a coincidence, then it will be our fault, not Sakurai's.

 

[GoldenSunIsAlive]

Even Rathalos has similar attacks that the Fusion Dragon like Deadly Gas.

Marth's name in Japanese is pronounced "Mars" and he's from Fire Emblem. Like a Mars Adept who uses fire? A stretch maybe, but its there.

Shulk and Ivan not only can see the future, but they both hold a valuable weapon/item that the antagonists want (Monado/Shamon's Rod)

Link, Marth and Shulk represent 3 of Nintendo's biggest Adventure/RPG games, but Golden Sun is missing? Hmm?

Link, Marth & Shulk appear in order of their appearance both in Smash and when their games debut. Link=64, Marth=Melee, Shulk=Smash 4. But no Brawl? Isaac was an AT in Brawl, right? Hmm?

The list just goes on and on that makes me think, this can't be a coincidence.

But IF it turns out it was a coincidence, then it will be our fault, not Sakurai's.

If Isaac isn't playable and still isn't shown as an assist trophy in the next direct, I will say that it is Sakurai his fault for misleading us completely with all the indirect info we got, like rathalos etc.

I just want the conclusive information about this character, I could even accept the fact if he would not be included. But Sakurai shouldn't leave us grasping in the dark this long, its just cruel in my opinion.

*Edit 17 posts to go for 25k :o

 

[FamicomDisk]

Even Rathalos has similar attacks that the Fusion Dragon like Deadly Gas.

Marth's name in Japanese is pronounced "Mars" and he's from Fire Emblem. Like a Mars Adept who uses fire? A stretch maybe, but its there.

Shulk and Ivan not only can see the future, but they both hold a valuable weapon/item that the antagonists want (Monado/Shamon's Rod)

Link, Marth and Shulk represent 3 of Nintendo's biggest Adventure/RPG games, but Golden Sun is missing? Hmm?

Link, Marth & Shulk appear in order of their appearance both in Smash and when their games debut. Link=64, Marth=Melee, Shulk=Smash 4. But no Brawl? Isaac was an AT in Brawl, right? Hmm?

The list just goes on and on that makes me think, this can't be a coincidence.

But IF it turns out it was a coincidence, then it will be our fault, not Sakurai's.

You know, I still personally don't think the image was an intentional reference... but wow, there sure are a lot more things that line up in it than I thought!

 

[Confirmation]

If Isaac isn't playable and still isn't shown as an assist trophy in the next direct, I will say that it is Sakurai his fault for misleading us completely with all the indirect info we got, like rathalos etc.

I just want the conclusive information about this character, I could even accept the fact if he would not be included. But Sakurai shouldn't leave us grasping in the dark this long, its just cruel in my opinion.

*Edit 17 posts to go for 25k :o

Let's please not blame Sakurai if Isaac isn't in. Just no

 

[Nazyrus]

There’s nothing concrete about the tweet, sure, but you can’t deny that there isn’t a lot of GS going on in that picture, and it even extends beyond the camera angle. Even the characters chosen seem to be references to the GS cast.

I’m not saying it means Isaac is in the game 100%. But if it was simply a “neat picture” then hot damn that’s one helluva coincidence. And it means Sakurai had no idea what he was doing. Which I find hard to believe. I think he knew exactly what he was doing with this tweet.

And if it was a GS reference, but no playable Isaac, then this would be a terrible move for Saks to make. We’ve already been jaded once and it hurt. He poked the GS hive with this tweet. If it doesn’t pan out a lot of people will be upset.

Yeah I mean just look at the tweet replies he got, almost all of them are people who saw the GS reference, rather than people saying "oh maybe this means a MH playable character" or whatever. It's undeniable how this is a GS reference, it was made to the extend of detail to make it one.

I agree. I tried to make a list of things about the Rathalos picture that seem like odes to Golden Sun.

That GS angle.
Arena is kind of a major setting in GS.
Big ol monster.
Silent protagonist.
Blonde kid with mental powers.
Blue-haired girl.

If Roy was in there, I would’ve been sold. But screw Garrett, I guess.

And not any monster, but a freaking dragon! I mean come on…

Even Rathalos has similar attacks that the Fusion Dragon like Deadly Gas.

Marth's name in Japanese is pronounced "Mars" and he's from Fire Emblem. Like a Mars Adept who uses fire? A stretch maybe, but its there.

Shulk and Ivan not only can see the future, but they both hold a valuable weapon/item that the antagonists want (Monado/Shamon's Rod)

Link, Marth and Shulk represent 3 of Nintendo's biggest Adventure/RPG games, but Golden Sun is missing? Hmm?

Link, Marth & Shulk appear in order of their appearance both in Smash and when their games debut. Link=64, Marth=Melee, Shulk=Smash 4. But no Brawl? Isaac was an AT in Brawl, right? Hmm?

The list just goes on and on that makes me think, this can't be a coincidence.

But IF it turns out it was a coincidence, then it will be our fault, not Sakurai's.

Geez I didn't notice the Shulk and Ivan comparison before… It's just impossible for me to see this in any other way. And like someone said, if they wanted to create a MH reference, this is far from it and way too closer to a GS one, and I can say i'm not biased towards GS or Isaac because i'm a fresh fanof it, and I've known MH for even longer lol.

 

[TappyBat]

so blame ourselves then? or will the haters to that for us?

 

[Pyzlnar]

Even Rathalos has similar attacks that the Fusion Dragon like Deadly Gas.

I never saw the need to relate these two. It would make sense if there were multiple dragons to pick from to on Smash but just "Rathalos and Fusion Dragon are dragons" should be enough imo.

Marth's name in Japanese is pronounced "Mars" and he's from Fire Emblem. Like a Mars Adept who uses fire? A stretch maybe, but its there.

A bit of a downer but I do believe this one is a stretch.
Marth is Japanese IS written marusu (マルス), but I read someone said that Mars in katakana would be Maasu (マース).
Though it seems it also can be written marusu it does make me wonder.

But more importantly as far as I could find, Golden Sun in japanese does not make reference to planets, they just call them "Fire Elementalists", "Fire Djinns" etc.
If I'm wrong on this one feel free to correct me.

Shulk and Ivan not only can see the future, but they both hold a valuable weapon/item that the antagonists want (Monado/Shamon's Rod)

Was Ivan able to see the future? (Honest question)
I remember he was told he was able to, but I don't remember him seeing it himself. At any rate, Jupiter Adepts do have that ability so I do think this one is correct.

Link, Marth and Shulk represent 3 of Nintendo's biggest Adventure/RPG games, but Golden Sun is missing? Hmm?

Link, Marth & Shulk appear in order of their appearance both in Smash and when their games debut. Link=64, Marth=Melee, Shulk=Smash 4. But no Brawl? Isaac was an AT in Brawl, right? Hmm?

The list just goes on and on that makes me think, this can't be a coincidence.

But IF it turns out it was a coincidence, then it will be our fault, not Sakurai's.

Yeah I'm on the same boat.
All and all, I do strongly believe it was reference. The next Direct can't come soon enough.

 

[SonicLink125]

so blame ourselves then? or will the haters to that for us?

Doesn't matter at this point. We've reached Ridley/K. Rool status of popularity. Take it as good or bad, but I'll be taking it as good! It's just great to see GS talked about again after 8 years.


Btw, this guy made his own Smash Ultimate 50-Fact Extravaganza.
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9qdund/got_anxious_waiting_for_a_smash_direct_so_i_made/

Please watch it! It's great! And even shows Isaac which killed me. XD

 

[Isaac4SmashUltimate]

*Slams the bench* I still believe in Isaac! I do think he'll be playable.

 

[GoldenSunIsAlive]

Let's please not blame Sakurai if Isaac isn't in. Just no

I can blame whoever I want (Said I for a reason) xD

 

[Lonodel]

I'll be impressed if we get no AT and no playable like we all know he was on the ballot and pretty high up there with no at i would be shocked if dlc wasn't a thing

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Yeah, the tweet is the closest thing to evidence we have for Isaac at this point, and that’s a little scary for his chances to some degree. Popularity wise, sure, we’ve got more than enough to say he should have been a serious ballot contender. But does that mean anything for a seemingly dead franchise? Sakurai has made mention of relevance having a serious role in selecting characters, and sure King K Rool came back, but that battle might be much, much harder for a character from a brand new franchise. That’s my big fear, if for nothing else than it would mean relevance is truly something I’ll never hear the end of in discussions. And while our analysis of said tweet makes sense, I’m always a little afraid we see what we want to see as fans.

He makes lot of sense and their is lots of circumstantial evidence for his inclusion, but I wish there was something a little more concrete to work with that says he’s even a more serious contender for Sakurai. Despite Geno’s greater irrelevance, Sakurai has actually discussed his popularity and gone as far as to license him for the game. I wish Isaac had a little more to work with.

Also, I’m not trying to be the hype police. I just don’t like seeing our community start to bend over backwards to give him extra chances at being playable like the idea of two Smash Bros Directs or that he doesn’t need a stage despite being from a franchise despite all new franchises with sensible stage choices getting one since Brawl. Or even that there are a ton of unique newcomers left. I remember being the Ridley fan in Smash 4 and the insane degree to which we tried to believe in his inclusion earned us some serious backlash and the community a worse name. I don’t want that for Isaac. I’m not saying don’t be hype or excited or optimistic, but do it responsibly and just go with he has a good chance at being in the game as one of the few newcomers left, or if not, as DLC.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Here are the references.

Ok so there are potential, unconfirmed references in pictures relating to the game. What does that have to do with anything?

 

[NessAtc.]

Also, I’m not trying to be the hype police. I just don’t like seeing our community start to bend over backwards to give him extra chances at being playable like the idea of two Smash Bros Directs or that he doesn’t need a stage despite being from a franchise despite all new franchises with sensible stage choices getting one since Brawl. Or even that there are a ton of unique newcomers left. I remember being the Ridley fan in Smash 4 and the insane degree to which we tried to believe in his inclusion earned us some serious backlash and the community a worse name. I don’t want that for Isaac. I’m not saying don’t be hype or excited or optimistic, but do it responsibly and just go with he has a good chance at being in the game as one of the few newcomers left, or if not, as DLC.

The big issue I have against "hype responsibly" is that the actual message is to be pessimistic about basically everything, when we have yet to have reason to be pessimistic about basically anything.

You may believe however you wish. That is entirely your prerogative. When we get messages almost every page about how we should be "lowering our expectations" and "ignoring circumstantial evidence", it gets to be excessive. You aren't going to change the minds of people who believe Isaac is in, and we aren't going to change yours. That's just the reality.

So let's get back to not controlling hype please

 

[Dhragen]

It's intriging that you guys are talking about Jojo, and i am just thinking how Isaac himself could be a Jojo Reference!

(N-NANI!!??)

Yeah, just look at the similarities. (the last ones are spoilers btw)

-The new season of the jojo anime airing this year it's called Vento Aureo Golden Wind, it starts with the same word used in Golden Sun.
-The word "gold" is a theme frequently used on this season, and the protagonist, Giorno Giovanna, uses an Stand called "Golden Experience", and the opening of the anime is called "Fighting Gold" (BTW, It's an amazing song, check it out)
-We could argue that Isaac using Dijins and summons could be similar on how Jojo characters uses Stands.
-Isaac and Giorno both shares the same hair color.

Spoiler

- Both have the ability to create/grow plants (but Giorno transforms objects into life, not create it- ...King Crimson says hi)
-Isaac name in French is Vlad. Vlad is a common name associated with Vampires, and you know who is a Vampire? Giorno's father, Dio Brando
-Speaking aboth Dio, his main weakness is the Sun, and using the energy of the Sun is how dio got defeated on the first part of Jojo

So with that in mind, i could conclude that Isaac and Giorno are the same person........ok forget the last part, but we at least can agreed that both are Golden Boys, so that's cool.....?

Yeah i am a Jojo and Golden Sun fan, and i had fun writing that list, hehe..
I have something else prepared that i will post later, so........To be Continued.

 

[FlintIke]

The worst case scenario I could see for Isaac happening, would be him being DLC. I said it many times I know but I am 101% sure that he will be playable, be it in the base roster or DLC. But I am gonna go with the Base Roster.

And it's almost november guys! I am getting a little hyped again after that long smash direct break. I think it has to be somewhere between 1st - 8th November or mid november.
And it might be at least 40 min - 1h since Sakurai still has a lot to talk about such as "spirits", Classic Mode, Online Mode, Maybe an Isaac mechanics Introduction, More ATs, More PKMN etc.
Just a little longer and we all can finally celebrate. I just can feel it! :D

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I think overall, the remaining characters for the base game will be:

Issac, Geno, Shadow, and Ken. MAYBE Incineroar... not too sure.

I've never played Golden Sun, but something about Issac is just really fascinating I really like his design and powers.