Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[GoodGrief741]

Then 85 thousand Isaac votes globally sounds like an extremely close estimate if this sample is worth going by. We can tell it's not an exact science based on Krystal and Shovel Knight polling ahead of Ridley and still being an Assist. The question there would be, how did the ballot impact those characters in reality? We can run numbers all we want but if 2.6% global can't make shovel knight playable, then it beg's the thought, does the ballot overrule sakurai's typical rules for newcomer selection. I'd say yes honestly. Both of these de-confirmations were edge cases.

Shovel Knight is a third party character, who's very small, and has only one game to his name. If there was a shovel knight 2 and probably a 3 as well, then i'd bet money he would be playable. But that's not the case, he hasn't had a large enough impact on gaming as a whole to justify the third party inclusion.

Likewise Krystal was probably heavily considered at one point, but had to be denied on the grounds of Wolf's far higher numbers and overall importance to the starfox series and nintendo at large. If Wolf hadn't polled as strong as he did. Krystal would be playable.

The thankful thing to consider here is that Isaac's only true competition for a slot from a fellow first party is Bandanna Waddle Dee. And after looking over these number's, running the maths and the like, i'd say that both of them could easily make it. So yeah. Sakurai's typical rules for character inclusion had to have more or less been picked apart piece by piece because of the ballot.

I consider Isaac and Dee the two likeliest newcomers left (maybe tie Dee with Dixie). It certainly feels closer to what this game is trying to do than to have Incineroar and Ken be the last two newcomers.

 

[Nazyrus]

I’ve had a terrible thought....

If Isaac is in the game... Now that we have a beautiful HD depiction thanks to Nazyrus , what if his official model looks worse?!

I would be seriously disappointed if they don't surpass my render easily tbh. Mostly because of the quality of the game overall and its renders are top-notch as usual and if Isaac gets in he definitely deserve no less than that same treatment. I still hope i can finish a full render of him before he gets revealed just to compare them hmm…

 

[Seoxys]

Just out of curiosity, and if you remember, what characters did you guys vote for in the ballot? For me it was:
-isaac: duh
-geno: duh
-crono: I had recently replayed chrono trigger and felt hopeful
-Roy: ended up being a waste of votes...lol
-dark samus: at the time ridley felt impossible to make it and I really wanted more metroid representation

What about you guys?

Hem hem, please act surprised because here's an incredible twist no one saw coming : I voted for Simon Belmont. Deep down, I wanted both him AND Richter but was like "Naaah, Richter would be an alt costume for Simon at best, he'd just have a reference to him"...

....


Then Smash Ultimate f*cking happened <3

 

[Nossnitro102]

Honestly I would be a little disappointed if he doesn't make base over ones like... *shudder* Steve... Cause only having added one new first party character would just be extremely weird to me. I don't know. I just don't like that outcome. And sorry I'm still not able to get behind Steve as much as some. I feel like his style wouldn't really mesh well. As a stage and assist sure thing. But character..? Not really. It does not feel "right" to me. But if he gets in fine. I won't be bitter about it.
But I'm allowed to be disappointed... right?

 

[DogManStar]

Having only one new first party franchise added in base game would be so bad. Golden Sun is the natural next choice for inclusion imo. There are other good options, but for this game, I think it really ought to be GS. I'm going to be really disappointed if they still somehow think it's a good idea to ignore GS like this.

 

[PokiehlthePoet]

Pac-Man is literally the most recognizable video game character in the world and has releases of some sort nearly annually.

But even if he wasn't, resorting to the uncommon exception or extenuating circumstance validates the exact point you're arguing against, that it would be unlikely.

I know Isaac is no where near as iconic a gaming icon as Pac-man and Duck Hunt but hasnt a character from a dormant series been added before?

I didnt say that adding dormant characters was common or likely.
With highly popular characters dormance has never been a deciding factor that resulted in that character having a no-can-enter seal placed over them.

 

[Chiroz]

Pac-Man is literally the most recognizable video game character in the world and has releases of some sort nearly annually.

While I understand the premise you are trying to set and I agree with your overall point, this just isn't true. Being older/first doesn't really mean more recognizable. Pac-Man might have been at some point one of the most recognizable video game characters, but Mario and Pikachu for sure are more recognizable universally in today's era.

For example, both of my parents and 5 siblings (and all of their spouses) know who Mario is, about half of them know who Pikachu is, but only about 3 or 4 (out of 12+ people) actually know who Pac-Man is even though all of them are 30+ years old and all (but my parents) played video games at some point in their lives.

I would also give the argument that gaming has grown exponentially. The amount of people who play video games immensely dwarves the amount of people who used to play video games 40 years ago. If you were to account for all of the "Soccer Moms" (who didn't use to play video games, but now play casual and mobile games) and all of the young kids of today who have still not learned about "video game history", I can imagine a lot of characters actually coming on top of Pac-Man in terms of how "recognizable" they are amongst that group of people which make a huge portion of the gaming world.

 

[FunAtParties]

Pacman may not be the most recognizable, but the dude is top 5 at least

 

[N3ON]

Im not really arguing against the idea that a new game would be helpful, Im more so observing the fact that dormance hasnt ever placed a "no-can-enter" seal over a character before.

Nor did I ever say it would. I'm not dealing in absolutes. I said I agreed with Jon that he'd have better chances under different, more optimal conditions.

While I understand the premise you are trying to set and I agree with your overall point, this just isn't true. Being older/first doesn't really mean more recognizable. Pac-Man might have been at some point one of the most recognizable video game characters, but Mario and Pikachu for sure are more recognizable universally in today's era.

For example, both of my parents and 5 siblings (and all of their spouses) know who Mario is, about half of them know who Pikachu is, but only about 3 or 4 (out of 12+ people) actually know who Pac-Man is even though all of them are 30+ years old and all (but my parents) played video games at some point in their lives.

I would also give the argument that gaming has grown exponentially. The amount of people who play video games immensely dwarves the amount of people who used to play video games 40 years ago. If you were to account for all of the "Soccer Moms" (who didn't use to play video games, but now play casual and mobile games) and all of the young kids of today who have still not learned about "video game history", I can imagine a lot of characters actually coming on top of Pac-Man in terms of how "recognizable" they are amongst that group of people which make a huge portion of the gaming world.

Well as stated by Guinness Book of Records, it's Pac-Man. Unfortunately the link is dead now, but I assure you it was real at one point.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/events/...-gaming-s-most-recognizable-character/1383766
Here's another link that sort of corroborates it.
https://www.ign.com/boards/threads/marios-not-the-most-recognizable-video-game-character.188218350/
I remember the discussion surrounding it given so many thought it'd be Mario, including me.

Now, that was eight years ago, so who knows, things might look different now. But there aren't any more recent examples of empirical evidence as far as I'm aware. And I mean, that was still thirty years after his prime.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

you cannot convince me that if you showed someone pac-man in his classic pizza missing a slice shape, they wouldn't recognize him. It's Impossible.

Pac-Man along with Mario, Sonic and Pikachu are probably the most recognizable characters in video game history. show some random person on the street a picture of them, they'll immediately recognize them.

 

[PokiehlthePoet]

Nor did I ever say it would. I'm not dealing in absolutes. I said I agreed with Jon that he'd have better chances under different, more optimal conditions.

A new game would help, I agree
Dormance hasnt excluded popular characters before, fact.

But even if he wasnt, resorting to the uncommon exception or extenuating circumstance validates the exact point you're arguing against, that it would be unlikely

I dont think I understand this. How does pointing out included characters that were relatively in the same boat as Isaac (popular in-demand character, dormant series) show how unlikely it is...?

 

[Chiroz]

you cannot convince me that if you showed someone pac-man in his classic pizza missing a slice shape, they wouldn't recognize him. It's Impossible.

Pac-Man along with Mario, Sonic and Pikachu are probably the most recognizable characters in video game history. show some random person on the street a picture of them, they'll immediately recognize them.

Would you say the same if I rounded up my 7 nieces/nephews who are all younger than 8 years old and asked them?

Out of the top of your head without searching for it, which promotional art has Pac-Man been in in the past 10 years? In which medias has he been mentioned (I’ll give you one, Pixel)? What merchandise is being sold about him? Which books is he appearing?

Like to be 100% honest, I am a video game developer and I live video games every single day and I haven’t seen Pac-Man anywhere but Smash, Pixels and Ghostly Adventures in the past decade. I know he has had more games and I am sure he has some merchandise and promotions out there, but the fact is I don’t see it anywhere and I don’t even know what they are. If I didn’t know who Pac-Man was already, I wouldn’t learn about him in today’s world (at least not directly. At some point, being a gamer, I would learn about video game history which contains Pac-Man). I mean, I see a Mario related story, plushie, advertisement or media connection at the very least weekly.

In my flawed (because it’s mostly just my own experience, no real data to back it up) and uninformed opinion saying Pac-Man is the most recognizable video game figure is like saying George Washington is the most recognizable figure ever. Sure Americans learn about him in school, sure other countries teach him too and he’s discussed and mentioned in many different topics and most people who were educated will have some sense of who he is, but can you compare him to Iron Man in today’s world (I won’t say Mickey or Mario because Iron Man is a more “realistic” character)?

I would say Pac-Man is incredibly recognizable amongst a gamer-centric group. But Mario and Pikachu go way beyond “gamer centric”. A lot of people who have never touched video games can recognize Pikachu and Mario, which is what I sort of doubt about Pac-Man, at least world wide (In my native country for example, arcades were never a thing. Which means it wasn’t a topic of discussion amongst a generation during the 80s).

 

[Q-Long]

Nor did I ever say it would. I'm not dealing in absolutes. I said I agreed with Jon that he'd have better chances under different, more optimal conditions.


Well as stated by Guinness Book of Records, it's Pac-Man. Unfortunately the link is dead now, but I assure you it was real at one point.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/events/...-gaming-s-most-recognizable-character/1383766
Here's another link that sort of corroborates it.
https://www.ign.com/boards/threads/marios-not-the-most-recognizable-video-game-character.188218350/
I remember the discussion surrounding it given so many thought it'd be Mario, including me.

Now, that was eight years ago, so who knows, things might look different now. But there aren't any more recent examples of empirical evidence as far as I'm aware. And I mean, that was still thirty years after his prime.

Pokemon is apparently the worlds biggest media franchise.

It might be Pikachu with Pac and Mario close behind.

 

[Kalaam]

Wouldn't it be cool if we had an Isaac AT showing up in Isaac gameplay section of the trailer, with the Golden Boy protecting the crying baby by pushing away the meanies ?

 

[THE 6r]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...pw5m-b4JHJ0_cGRKU15KYlTe1E/edit#gid=729442469

just gonna post this here as a reminder not to give up hope my guys

Gracias. I needed that.

 

[TempestSurge]

I don’t know, I don’t think Sakurai considers DLC when making the game. If you look at what we know, DLC characters have only been veterans and characters from third party companies. You can’t very well have a veteran demoted to any other role as people will complain (not to mention that Lucas and Roy don’t really work as Assist Trophies), and we’ve only had two Assist Trophies from unrepresented third party franchises (Bomberman and Shovel Knight) and those two happened in Ultimate.

Plus, we don’t know Sakurai’s stance on upgrading ATs to playable through DLC.

I feel the fan demand behind Isaac is making him either playable in base or mark his return as an assist. If he's an assist, I really doubt he'll be changed to be playable through DLC. Majority of the new support gained from the Rathalos tweet and trademark renewal, along with other supporters who have no connection to Isaac, but want him for his fans, are likely to consider his assist reveal a done deal.

And the smash fan base would just move on to the next demanded character Rex/Pyra or new IP in Spring man (if Isaac couldn't make it playable rip any other just as dormant/older unrepped franchises). I only see maybe a small group of hardcore that will stop at nothing to have Isaac playable and his assist upgraded through DLC, but Isaac supporters will be split and some rather have the assist than nothing and thus won't fight Sakurai's decision.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

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[Mehdow]

There is going to be a Smash tournament 3rd-4th November, I think it's nothing relevant to directs or something...

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate will be featured at the Nintendo Live 2018 tournament event in Japan on November 3-4. https://t.co/1fVnul3SXt

— Toad’s Nintendo News (@MailToadINTEL) October 19, 2018

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

I really just want GS to get better representation than it got in smash 4. Preferably more visible things like ATs, Mii costumes, and other items. Obviously playable Isaac is what I want the most but I'll take what we get

 

[TappyBat]

I feel the fan demand behind Isaac is making him either playable in base or mark his return as an assist. If he's an assist, I really doubt he'll be changed to be playable through DLC. Majority of the new support gained from the Rathalos tweet and trademark renewal, along with other supporters who have no connection to Isaac, but want him for his fans, are likely to consider his assist reveal a done deal.

And the smash fan base would just move on to the next demanded character Rex/Pyra or new IP in Spring man (if Isaac couldn't make it playable rip any other just as dormant/older unrepped franchises). I only see maybe a small group of hardcore that will stop at nothing to have Isaac playable and his assist upgraded through DLC, but Isaac supporters will be split and some rather have the assist than nothing and thus won't fight Sakurai's decision.

why do i feel him being an AT again is more likely? i'm scared guys. :<

 

[?!?!?!]

why do i feel him being an AT again is more likely? i'm scared guys. :<

Belieeeeeeve in the boi

It can go either way but it just makes way more sense for him to be playable

 

[KoopaSaki]

Belieeeeeeve in the boi

It can go either way but it just makes way more sense for him to be playable

More importantly their is no way that Sakurai is unaware of just how demanded and popular Isaac is! I am very confident in his chances to make it into the playable roster. No deconfirmation means I keep on hoping just like Shantae and Geno!

 

[SonicLink125]

lol What are you guys talking about? Pac-Man hasn't been around in media and whatnot? Don't you guys realize that he's always been around disguised as the LG face symbol?

 

[Delta64]

Because news has been slow (and I have not seen it posted here), here is an arrangement I found that was posted on YouTube recently. Thought I would post it here to help pass the time.

 

[hustler713]

Because news has been slow (and I have not seen it posted here), here is an arrangement I found that was posted on YouTube recently. Thought I would post it here to help pass the time.

I'd feel like that's one of those "nice to have but never used" type of tracks to me.

I could put the whole OST of the first two Games into Smash, but would probably only stick with Isaac Battle Theme or that Brawl Remix while playing.

 

[PokiehlthePoet]

https://smashboards.com/threads/sun-moon-and-stars-theory.462525/ Hey everyone I thought I should leave this here, you might be interested in checking it out as it's a theory in favor for Isaac.

My friends wall ornaments solidly confirm the Sun, Moon and Stars theory.
http://tinypic.com/r/5ofbj6/9

Lol I turned around and noticed their arrangement while first reading it xD
In all seriousness, I find this theory convincing, especially the Sun and Moon part, I feel like were bound to see Isaac and Skull-Kid included.

 

[clearandsweet]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...pw5m-b4JHJ0_cGRKU15KYlTe1E/edit#gid=729442469

just gonna post this here as a reminder not to give up hope my guys

Never saw this, thanks for posting. Even Shovel Knight being an AT is probably a good sign as he has noooo history to draw from and Sakurai still respected the votes enough to include him. Gives me hope for Isaac and Shantae, both of who I voted for. Shantae got more votes than Geno, lol, though none from Japan. I'm sure Geno got none from Europe tho lol.

Seems like Sakurai very much tried to deconfirm characters as assist trophies very early if they were highly voted on. RIP any Advance Wars rep dreams though...

 

[Q-Long]

guys what if the sun and moon theory are the sun and moon dudes from kirby lol

 

[Confirmation]

guys what if the sun and moon theory are the sun and moon dudes from kirby lol

The greatest character rivalry in existence will have been born

 

[TappyBat]

mr shine and mr bright? meeeeeeh

 

[Delta64]

guys what if the sun and moon theory are the sun and moon dudes from kirby lol

What if this was the main villain of Spirits mode?

"I got the Sun and Moon to fight. It was all according to my perfect little plan." Marx

 

[TappyBat]

bat**** marx? maybe

 

[Deleted member]

Isaac hopefully is comfirmed soon. Still have hope he's in.

 

[SonicLink125]

What if this was the main villain of Spirits mode?
View attachment 170737
"I got the Sun and Moon to fight. It was all according to my perfect little plan." Marx

Ok, I've been seeing Marx frequently in this YouTuber, Mayo's videos. The ones that have been keeping me entertained throughout this "info drought" is his "Abridged Smash Directs" videos. Maybe you guys will get a kick out of them like I did.

This is the August Direct one and arguably my favorite one of his:
https://youtu.be/3M6HLhJW4ig

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

I believe in our boy still. Look at everything we've been through so far!

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

It’s been a hell of an emotional rollercoaster tho. I just want it to be over lol.

Good news is Ultimate comes out in roughly a month and a half. That means is less than that time we WILL know Isaac’s fate.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

What if this was the main villain of Spirits mode?
View attachment 170737
"I got the Sun and Moon to fight. It was all according to my perfect little plan." Marx

I would love Marx to be the final boss, and then you unlock him when you beat spirits mode

 

[SonicLink125]

I believe in our boy still. Look at everything we've been through so far!

Especially compared to the days during Brawl, 4, and DLC. We had nothing but hope. For Ultimate, however, there's so much going for Isaac than against him. It's been an insane roller coaster so far.

 

[Luigifan18]

I would love Marx to be the final boss, and then you unlock him when you beat spirits mode

Didn't Tabuu swipe a bunch of Marx's moves, IIRC?

 

[?!?!?!]

Didn't Tabuu swipe a bunch of Marx's moves, IIRC?

Plot twist tabuu is marx in his final form

Speaking of tabuu, do you guys think he's coming making a comeback in ultimate?