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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

osby

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
24,065
I think it partially depends on if Sakurai does that thing where he bases the moveset on what a character conceptually is (spellsword in this case) or if he bases it more on the character's in game abilities. If conceptually based, Isaac won't seem unique because of Robin, which may hurt his chances. If based on his actual game, it's obvious he wouldn't fight like anyone on the roster and has so many potential moves you could likely get by without a single move people would claim is cloned from another character (not even a loose 'cloned' move like Arcfire from PK Fire).

I'm of the opinion that his actual game moveset matters more, but as K Rool arguments have taught me quite a few people here don't think Sakurai will use the actual in-game moves for new characters and will instead make new ones based solely on appearance. Looking at Ridley and Inkling, Inkling fits the based on in-game moves while Ridley feels half and half, so who knows.
Even with characters like Mega Man, Sakurai seems to design the fighter first, and cram the references later. I think Isaac might be like Shulk or Little Mac: Similar to other fighters in some senses but has a few design gimmicks and a unique special system.
I don't think his vast move arsenal make him a top contender, it's not that hard to give someone specials (Palutena).
 

KoalaNut

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Joined
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Messages
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I would make the "For the love of God we don't need another Anime Swordsman" remark if it weren't for the fact I was a fan of the Golden Sun series and Isaac has enough to make him stand out from the 27 Anime Swordsmen characters. Support.
 

osby

Smash Obsessed
Joined
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Messages
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I would make the "For the love of God we don't need another Anime Swordsman" remark if it weren't for the fact I was a fan of the Golden Sun series and Isaac has enough to make him stand out from the 27 Anime Swordsmen characters. Support.
We have 27!?
Wow, now think what would happen if anime characters were allowed in Smash.
 

KoalaNut

Smash Rookie
Joined
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Messages
7
We have 27!?
Wow, now think what would happen if anime characters were allowed in Smash.
It's a joke lol, it's about how Sakurai just keeps adding anime swordfighters nonstop and with the exception of Shulk and Corrin they're pretty much all the same gimmick with a slightly different design
 

Enchess

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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We have 27!?
Wow, now think what would happen if anime characters were allowed in Smash.
Definitely. It's 27 if you are super loose with what's an "anime swordsman", maybe even 28 if you are even looser with it

:ultcloud::ultcorrin::ultike::ultlink::ultmarth::ultrobin:ultroy::ultshulk::ulttoonlink::ultyounglink: - 10 by strictest definitions of "Anime Swordsmen"
:ultganondorf::ultmetaknight::ultmiifighters: - 13 now if we say "anime" is japanese animation, which is the definition I use (welcome to the sword club Ganondorf!)
:ultlucina: - 14 now if we count swords-women
:ultkirby: - 15 if they simply need to be able to use a sword in their full moveset (FS included)
:ultsheik::ultpit::ultdarkpit::ultvillager::ultwolf::ultbowserjr: - 21 if we count any sort of metal blade as a "sword"
:ultpeach::ultdaisy: - 23 if we pointy metal objects used as weapons as a "sword"
:ultbowser::ultridley::ultpokemontrainer: - 26 if we count claws as "swords"
:ultgreninja:(maybe :ultmegaman:) - 27, maybe 28 if we count elemental/energy swords
 

osby

Smash Obsessed
Joined
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Messages
24,065
It's a joke lol, it's about how Sakurai just keeps adding anime swordfighters nonstop and with the exception of Shulk and Corrin they're pretty much all the same gimmick with a slightly different design
I assume you are joking.

EDIT: Unless you count clones, all swordfighters we got play pretty differently and have no shared gimmick. Also they aren't added "nonstop", last one we got was Corrin.
 
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KMDP

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
12,199
"Anime" Swordsmen (and women): :ultcloud::ultcorrin::ultike::ultlink::ultmarth::ultlucina::ultrobin:ultroy::ultshulk::ultyounglink:
To be honest we don't really have that many. They make up 15% of the roster.

:ultgreninja:'d by Enchess Enchess . Eh, I'll post it anyway.
 

True Blue Warrior

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If Isaac's Brawl AT is anything to go by, he wouldn't rely on swordplay

I would make the "For the love of God we don't need another Anime Swordsman" remark if it weren't for the fact I was a fan of the Golden Sun series and Isaac has enough to make him stand out from the 27 Anime Swordsmen characters. Support.
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D

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Guest
If the Takahashi brothers aren't confident in them developing a fourth installment with the crew they have, I don't see why they couldn't just do a remake of the Broken Seal/Lost Age and enhance it. Going back to Octopath, they could allow the player the option to play chapters as either Saturos & Menardi trekking through Angara, or to play as Isaac and company's fruitless efforts in the Great Eastern Sea, to help flesh the story out a bit more.

I mean, Aces has a pretty nifty world map that they could recycle.
 

N3ON

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I figure the “anime swordsman” greivance is mostly lobbied by people who don’t know the characters they’re complaining about very well.
 

DogManStar

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I figure the “anime swordsman” greivance is mostly lobbied by people who don’t know the characters they’re complaining about very well.
Yeah, I don't really do speculation outside of this thread anymore, but when I did, I got really tired of hearing stuff like that. Characters like Isaac have so much that they can do outside of swords. I mostly hear this line from people who don't care about Isaac or GS. There are legit reasons to not like Isaac, and I can totally understand just not clicking with the character or "anime", but I honestly think that on some level the reason I hear this line a lot is because people who don't like Isaac get an easy and reasonable reason to oppose his inclusion.
 
D

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I figure the “anime swordsman” greivance is mostly lobbied by people who don’t know the characters they’re complaining about very well.
It holds no weight for me considering that these would likely be the same people who either troll with Goku or Shrek, or are pissed about a character they want not making it (Do I even need to mention said character?) that they don't want anything else making it.

A more practical argument would not focus on the sword (or lack therof), but instead the overall reputation of the franchise, the importance of devoting a whole character slot (and stage) for one new fighter that won't bring attention, or the reality of relevancy in today's marketplace.

However, the pros outweigh the cons, because Isaac is one of the few remaining choices I can think of that would bring a unique aspect to the gameplay. Everyone else will either have a standard moveset, or be an echo. The main downside to Isaac is that... well... even if he IS unique, he's most likely not going to be announced before launch because he'll be treated as "ho hum" at best and "seething rage" at worst.

I main a forum with an active Smash community, and whenever I mention Isaac, I have to remind people what the franchise is because they don't recognize him so easily. The Internet in general will likely look at it like that, not unlike Shulk getting into the last installment, where they'll have to do all sorts of research to find out what in God's green earth he came from.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest


Come on, do you really want to have to ride the hellstorm to Crossbone Isle and descend the depths of Deadbeard’s cursed lair to get some important treasure that you passed up just because you happened to be dying horribly then? Get some perspective here, Lady.
 
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Organization XIII

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You know what I hate most about the "no more swordsmen" mentality? It used to actually be legitimate. It started because people wanted no more FE characters using swords since the weapons triangle was important to the series. People felt the series needed better representation and so or used to only apply to adding more FE sword users while there were no axe and lance users. This was good people wanted a series to be portrayed better which is to something to admire. Then FE got 6 characters and became the poster child for taking out aggression of not getting the character you wanted even though if there were less FE characters people would just complain about another character or set of characters and never stopped to actually look at the circumstances behind FE getting those characters so it was also an easy way to cry bias. From there it just spiraled into having a sword being bad in general and somehow not having that weapon making a character stand out. It is a shame that something that started off well meaning became a way to write off characters and it annoys me so much.
 

NoOtherPersona

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You know what I hate most about the "no more swordsmen" mentality? It used to actually be legitimate. It started because people wanted no more FE characters using swords since the weapons triangle was important to the series. People felt the series needed better representation and so or used to only apply to adding more FE sword users while there were no axe and lance users. This was good people wanted a series to be portrayed better which is to something to admire. Then FE got 6 characters and became the poster child for taking out aggression of not getting the character you wanted even though if there were less FE characters people would just complain about another character or set of characters and never stopped to actually look at the circumstances behind FE getting those characters so it was also an easy way to cry bias. From there it just spiraled into having a sword being bad in general and somehow not having that weapon making a character stand out. It is a shame that something that started off well meaning became a way to write off characters and it annoys me so much.
i feel that that smash 4 just had to many fire emblem characters the sword users were not the problem at least for me after corrin we didn't need any new ones echos are fine whatever but a new spot no I'm honestly tired of characters whose series are represented enough as it is while franchises need another rep or a new franchise we don't need a new pokemon just because every game until this point had a new one same goes for fire emblem no more promotion picks that's why I hope this is game is only fan desired characters from the ballot and hopefully the wanted 3 are in at least the wanted 3 on this site of course everywhere else its rex or another pokemon etc also to get rid of the anime swordsman thing give that boi the axe boom new weapon that hasn't been used in smash and it makes sense fore him to use it
 
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Hydewell

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Today's reveal was ROB. So it seems they're still revealing some stuff in their birthdays (ROB was launched 33 years ago in this date in japan).

Let's see if the next week there are some news (more concretely, 1st August, when the 1st game was launched). If not, it could happen on 28th October, when Dark Dawn was launched.

Vague.. I also like how it comes off as him low-key venting about Nintendo execs contradictory orders. I don't think Zelda needs Aonuma at this stage, so I'd be interested to see him do this and let someone else take up the Zelda series.
There're various producers/directors who can supervise different projects and franchises. Miyamoto did it with Mario, Pikmin and Star Fox for example. Kosuke Yabuki did it with ARMS and Mario Kart 8. So it wouldn't be strange. Also, that comment was followed after the huge success of Splatoon, so I can understand why the executives pushed the productors/directors to do some new IPs.
Also, it's interesting the two last Zelda entries had two stealth sections (the volcano part in SS and the yuga clan in BotW). So maybe he'll continue doing that, dismissing the thief idea.
 
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_Sheik

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Hey guys, here's a question (might have been asked multiple times already, but...)

Would you feel pissed or relieved if Isaac gets to be in Ultimate, but only, again, as an AT?

It's the latter for me.
 

RandomAce

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Hey guys, here's a question (might have been asked multiple times already, but...)

Would you feel pissed or relieved if Isaac gets to be in Ultimate, but only, again, as an AT?

It's the latter for me.
I would be pissed.

The thing is that Issac has so much potential to be a great fighter to be in Smash with many fans asking him for years.

Having Issac as an AT would basically make us wait for another 4-6 years until we can discuss if Issac can get in, and it would be much smaller that he would due to the fact that he’s an AT.
 

Enchess

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Hey guys, here's a question (might have been asked multiple times already, but...)

Would you feel pissed or relieved if Isaac gets to be in Ultimate, but only, again, as an AT?

It's the latter for me.
No. I felt pissed when he lost the AT despite not being playable. If his AT is back, I'll still take it as a sign Nintendo hasn't forgotten about Golden Sun and recognizes the love fans have for the series.

I get the "AT Isaac means we won't get him at all, even as DLC" thing, but I feel as though we won't get him at all if he's not in the base game this time anyway. So I'd rather have AT Isaac than no Isaac.
 

Organization XIII

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I get the "AT Isaac means we won't get him at all, even as DLC" thing.
That's completely untrue. It's still entirely possible for ATs to be upgraded. It's only had one game where it could happen so the fact that it didn't in Smash 4 doesn't mean it can't happen. Now if it doesn't happen again that is a much stronger argument but for now not really. Still Isaac probably wouldn't be upgraded it would likely be Waluigi.
 

Billybae10K

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Hey guys, here's a question (might have been asked multiple times already, but...)

Would you feel pissed or relieved if Isaac gets to be in Ultimate, but only, again, as an AT?

It's the latter for me.
Relieved for sure. I don't think I'd have a right to be pissed given in this scenario Sakurai gave Golden Sun back it's representation with the assist trophy. Given we didn't have that in Smash 4, this would be a step up. And unlike a certain other assist trophy's fanbase, I'd like to imagine we'd be able to handle the news with a bit less conspiracy theorizing.
 

NessAtc.

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On another note, I just finished my 100% playthrough of The Lost Age

Beat Dullahan yesterday, was quite aggravating

also the image link on the OP is broken now
 
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Enchess

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Relieved for sure. I don't think I'd have a right to be pissed given in this scenario Sakurai gave Golden Sun back it's representation with the assist trophy. Given we didn't have that in Smash 4, this would be a step up. And unlike a certain other assist trophy's fanbase, I'd like to imagine we'd be able to handle the news with a bit less conspiracy theorizing.
This is the main reason I'm annoyed with a few certain character's fanbases (one in particular). AT is not a bad thing. I'm rooting for K Rool, Isaac, Mio Amakura, and Saki. Do I think all of them have strong reasons why they should be playable? Yes, definitely. Will I be angry if any of the above are AT? No, I'll actually be thrilled because there's a ton of competition for playable characters and most people's wants won't make it even as AT. If you aren't big enough to be known by your average casual gamer, then you are lucky to be represented in any form.
 

NessAtc.

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Basically this, I won't be too irritated if he's an assist trophy, because then that means we may get some new Golden Sun music
 

Sabrewulf238

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Not that it's likely but I'd rather Isaac appeared as an assist trophy as part of dlc (or a free update after release)

At least then it wouldn't feel like his dlc chances were destroyed by him being an assist in the base game..

In a way it would feel easier to accept.
 
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NessAtc.

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Yeah ideally Isaac would end up being playable, but if it comes out he never had a shot at being playable I'm fine with an AT
 

Hydewell

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 13, 2014
Messages
144
That Isaac appears as an AT is the most plausible scenario for me. Obviously I'd be a bit sad for not being a newcomer, but at least he would appear in the game in some way (with a new and better design). Also, we can support Matthew who is literaly Isaac with a diferent name for an hypothetic DLC :p
 

N3ON

Gone Exploring
BRoomer
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Messages
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Hey guys, here's a question (might have been asked multiple times already, but...)

Would you feel pissed or relieved if Isaac gets to be in Ultimate, but only, again, as an AT?

It's the latter for me.
Momentary disappointment followed by lasting contentedness.

It's the much likelier outcome tbh.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I'd take the AT in a heartbeat.

As long as he still exists in the Smash universe.
 

Strider_Bond00J

Smash Champion
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la-lio~n~
Switch FC
SW-2525-8699-9095
I'd much prefer a playable Isaac, but returning to an Assist Trophy wouldn't be a bad consolation prize again. At the very least, it's still acknowledging the Golden Sun games still exist, and so does his fanbase.
 

ThoughtfulWanderer

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 5, 2018
Messages
1,054
Part of me would feel insulted. It's a place that Isaac's already been to once before and it shouldn't really feel like a "step up" from his current position. It doesn't really get anything done, either. Sure, it's an acknowledgement of the series and his popularity in Smash again, but it won't reach and impact outsiders like a playable role with a CGI newcomer trailer would.

Then again, I'm keeping reserved on Isaac's chances so I'm not going to say I'd be overly surprised. An acknowledgement is better than nothing.
 

Isaac: Venus Adept

Smash Lord
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Weyard
The thing is if Isaac doesn't make it as an assist trophy there is still another chance for DLC although that may be reserved for characters that originated post project plan like Spring Man and Rex. If he is an assist trophy it's somewhat a step up from Smash 4 but puts us in the same position as Brawl. Maybe if they at least update his model or give him more moves as an assist it can be kind of interesting but it'll still be depressing Sakurai still hasn't seen the potential of his moveset as a fighter and the passion of the fanbase that has been going strong for his inclusion for 10+ years. Also the Isaac naysayers will get more annoying when we support him for the potential next game which I'm still going to do of course
 

KMDP

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
12,199
Momentary disappointment followed by lasting contentedness.

It's the much likelier outcome tbh.
Same.

I wouldn't like it, but hey, at least Isaac's in the game, as opposed to nothing. :laugh:
 

ThoughtfulWanderer

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 5, 2018
Messages
1,054
How about a song list for a Golden Sun stage? Obviously, both of the preexisting songs used on Norfair and Palutena's Temple should return in some form, but what about new inclusions?

Venus Lighthouse, Isaac's Battle Theme, a standard boss theme medley, and a world map theme medley would be my obvious "must have" picks. For some personal choices, I'd also throw in TLA's sailing theme and a Sol Sanctum / Elemental Stars medley that starts out with high energy but transitions into a slower-paced song ala the Magicant / Eight Melodies remix. Golden Sun has an atmospheric side to its soundtrack that should be given some love.
 
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