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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday
- Thread starter N3ON
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Organization XIII
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Not really looking at the actual period of when newcomers in Brawl debuted Isaac was a good few years off. Timing just kills his chances so often it seems. Luckily that doesn't seem to be an issue this go around so that along with this game seemingly being more focused on popularity is why I say this is his best shot.
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NoOtherPersona
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This all seems like it could be true down to the konmai thing but what stops me is the shovel knight thing I don't think he'd get in over someone like shantae but what do I know
Isaac: Venus Adept
Smash Lord
This leak is definitely fake but it's still one of my favorites that's been released for how educated some of the statements are and for how funny and ridiculous some are as well. I mean seriously, Waluigi is Sakurai's favorite Mario character, get outta here
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I love this leak for this statement alone:
Isaac was much, much more popular than Sakurai expected, especially in Europe, but not on par with Ridley or K Rool. This surprise popularity led to Sakurai making him high priority alongside K. Rool, Ridley and Inkling.
Isaac was much, much more popular than Sakurai expected, especially in Europe, but not on par with Ridley or K Rool. This surprise popularity led to Sakurai making him high priority alongside K. Rool, Ridley and Inkling.
Hydewell
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Unless there are two Hiroshi Kajiyama, he appeared in the Dark Dawn credits. He was listed in the Monster Design and Djinn Design sections https://youtu.be/9iET-iXZYRc?t=8m58s
I always dismissed that idea considering that Saki returned in Sm4sh as an AT and the Wii's Sin&Punishment also bombed.
I'm sure there were other reasons. Maybe the 3DS hardware struggled, maybe they though they would have had to update his design (or replaced him with Matthew), maybe they forgot him (it's curious how all the unlockable ATs from Brawl didn't returned (except Shadow)), or, for the optimistic ones, he was going to be a newcomer but he was a low priority character and didn't make it.
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nvm i'm on the support list already
It also helps that he's not directly competing with insert your favorite supporting character here.
my guess is, since he didn't show up as an AT (yes I know there were others), he was considered but ultimately was lower priority compared to other characters.
I'm pretty much not getting my hopes at any of my favorites from the ballot, bar K. Rool (unless Japan felt like being super nice and voting for their favorite Mother villain a ton), but, Ballot coupled with not many characters left could really very well mean an entry for Isaac on the base game (or hopefully DLC) - There's also the fact that, if enough fan demand is set out for it, even if he's an assist you could still easily throw Matthew or have Felix replace him. It's muddier to see than Brawl, for sure, but it definitely looks close.
It also helps that he's not directly competing with insert your favorite supporting character here.
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Darkdarkness
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Add me in the support list.
I want to see isaac playable in smash bros.
I want to see isaac playable in smash bros.
Sabrewulf238
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I mean I could definitely see Isaac (and Golden Sun in general) performing better than expected. That "leak" is still fake though.
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True Blue Warrior
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I've added you.
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I really appreciate your dedication to maintaining the list, True Blue.
Organization XIII
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https://nintendoenthusiast.com/blog...chise/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
Saw this today. I don't really agree with this guy on a lot of points but I would like to see what you guys think.
Saw this today. I don't really agree with this guy on a lot of points but I would like to see what you guys think.
KMDP
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I agree with you, The Job System is fine and Golden Sun doesn't need to be a Tactical RPG/Action RPG to succeed.
NessAtc.
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The guy makes it sound like turn based RPGs are irrelevant now, which is clearly not the case as Octopath Traveller just had a large boom(which this guy actually skipped over in regards to GS like what)
I'm in the camp where there are problems with Golden Sun's mechanics, but they are far and few in between. Having waggle for the field psynergy is something that should be alongside just using the directional inputs instead of the only way to handle it.
It's easy to just say "improve the graphics" but there needs to be a clear art style and design in mind for the game.
tl;dr if it ain't broke don't fix it
I'm in the camp where there are problems with Golden Sun's mechanics, but they are far and few in between. Having waggle for the field psynergy is something that should be alongside just using the directional inputs instead of the only way to handle it.
It's easy to just say "improve the graphics" but there needs to be a clear art style and design in mind for the game.
tl;dr if it ain't broke don't fix it
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KMDP
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I hate the "[Game Genre] is irrelevant now" idea. It's completely nonsensical (and reeks of commercial bandwagoning).
2D Platformers didn't suddenly become bad just because 3D Platformers became a possibility, unlike what the Studio execs of the late 90s into the 00s would have had you believe. Turn-Based RPGs still have their place, and can coexist with Action RPGs and Tactical RPGs.
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Enchess
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Yeah, the Job System is literally my favorite part of Golden Sun. I wanted to vomit on the suggestion to replace it with a standard job systems (as much as I love those in games like Octopath). And Nintendo definitely doesn't need a second fantasy tactical RPG. It'll never survive like that with FE around.
EDIT: wow, I guess I never asked to be added to support list. I officially support Isaac.
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KMDP
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Nintendo has Fire Emblem for Tactical RPGs, Xenoblade for Action RPGs, Pokémon for Mons Turn-Based RPGs, let Golden Sun be their actual Turn-Based RPG series.
Please, Nintendo?
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Enchess
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It's kinda a glaring blindspot in their lineup honestly.
Simple 2D Platformer - Mario, Kirby, Yoshi
More technical 2D Platformer - DKC
3D Platformer - 3D Mario
Action/Adventure - Legend of Zelda
Metroidvania - Metroid (duh)
FPS - Metroid Prime
Action RPG - Xenoblade
Tactical RPG - Fire Emblem, Mario + Rabbids (and Codename: STEAM if somehow it gets sequel)
Monster Collector RPG - Pokemon
RTS - Pikmin (will fight anyone on this genre classification)
Kart Racer - Mario Kart
Platform Fighter - Smash Bros
2D Fighter - Pokken
3D Fighter - also Pokken
Survival Horror - Fatal Frame
Rhythm - Rhythm Heaven
3rd Person Shooter - Splatoon
Space Combat - Star Fox
Rail Shooter - also Star Fox, maybe Kid Icarus again in future (RIP Sin and Punishment
)
Creation series - Mario Maker
Action - Bayonetta (Nintendo publishes, so gonna count)
Puzzle - Pushmo, Box Boy, Snipperclips
Party - Mario Party, Mario and Sonic
Life Sim - Animal Crossing
Notable missing:
Traditional JRPG - ??? (Golden Sun)
Non-kart Racer - ??? (F-Zero, Waverace, Star Fox leak)
Stealth - ??? (actually don't care if Nintendo touches this one)
we could also stand to get these back:
Traditional Modern-day JRPG - ??? (Earthbound)
Modern-day tactics game - ??? (Advance Wars, Codename: STEAM)
More technical 2D Platformer - DKC
3D Platformer - 3D Mario
Action/Adventure - Legend of Zelda
Metroidvania - Metroid (duh)
FPS - Metroid Prime
Action RPG - Xenoblade
Tactical RPG - Fire Emblem, Mario + Rabbids (and Codename: STEAM if somehow it gets sequel)
Monster Collector RPG - Pokemon
RTS - Pikmin (will fight anyone on this genre classification)
Kart Racer - Mario Kart
Platform Fighter - Smash Bros
2D Fighter - Pokken
3D Fighter - also Pokken
Survival Horror - Fatal Frame
Rhythm - Rhythm Heaven
3rd Person Shooter - Splatoon
Space Combat - Star Fox
Rail Shooter - also Star Fox, maybe Kid Icarus again in future (RIP Sin and Punishment
)Creation series - Mario Maker
Action - Bayonetta (Nintendo publishes, so gonna count)
Puzzle - Pushmo, Box Boy, Snipperclips
Party - Mario Party, Mario and Sonic
Life Sim - Animal Crossing
Notable missing:
Traditional JRPG - ??? (Golden Sun)
Non-kart Racer - ??? (F-Zero, Waverace, Star Fox leak)
Stealth - ??? (actually don't care if Nintendo touches this one)
we could also stand to get these back:
Traditional Modern-day JRPG - ??? (Earthbound)
Modern-day tactics game - ??? (Advance Wars, Codename: STEAM)
Hydewell
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The last point is an example when people doesn't like the JRPG turn genre. It's strange he didn't complain about the random encounters, which is the other topic they always criticise.
Obviously there're some aspects they could implement to improve the game (less dialog, increase the speed in the turns, maybe avoiding the random encounters, TELLING THE STORY IN JUST ONE GAME, increase the difficulty...), but changing completly his genre... it would be a shame and destroying the series itself.
Maybe this will be the thief game Aonuma wanted to do few years ago.
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Enchess
Smash Lord
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Any source on that? (I believe you, just genuinely curious cuz I've never heard this mentioned)
Hydewell
Smash Apprentice
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- Nov 13, 2014
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Enchess
Smash Lord
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Vague.. I also like how it comes off as him low-key venting about Nintendo execs contradictory orders. I don't think Zelda needs Aonuma at this stage, so I'd be interested to see him do this and let someone else take up the Zelda series.
Back on topic, Octopath has been making me really want a new Golden Sun with an "HD-2D" thing. Not necessarily what Octopath did with its storybook aesthetic, but something in the same spirit. My favorite part of OPT is how much I care about interacting with NPCs, which I think Golden Sun is uniquely poised to go farther with. The Utility Psynergy like Force and Mind Read could really expand the Path Action gimmick a lot.
LasermasterA
Smash Champion
"- Isaac was much, much more popular than Sakurai expected, especially in Europe, but not on par with Ridley or K Rool. This surprise popularity led to Sakurai making him high priority alongside K. Rool, Ridley and Inkling"
I usually discard all leaks without a second glance but this statement was nicely crafted. Almost too good to be true, but believable enough lol. We do know that Isaac has a lot of popularity in many European countries even though his name might not be "Isaac" (Hans/Vlad/etc.) so the leak has that fake credibility going on.
That one statement makes me wish that leak was true since it doesn't sound too far-fetched, besides the inclusion of Shovel Knight xD
And about genre change, I wish Golden Sun combat to remain the way it is. Turn based. Sure I'd love an overworld similar to Xenoblade , an enhanced graphics style to match the new world and perhaps enemies appearing on the overworld before combat begins, but otherwise I'd want Golden Sun to keep its roots.
The Djinn system was one of the amazing things about the game, even if it was a tad difficult to understand for newcomers. When I first played Golden Sun, I didn't realize that you could take the Dual Elemental Classes to final stages, and the only use I got out of it was Douse and Growth. Second playthrough felt even more fresh as I messed around with dual and tri elemental classes. I wouldn't change that for anything.
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GoodGrief741
Smash Legend
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- Sep 22, 2012
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Now I want a Nintendo stealth game.It's kinda a glaring blindspot in their lineup honestly.
Simple 2D Platformer - Mario, Kirby, Yoshi
More technical 2D Platformer - DKC
3D Platformer - 3D Mario
Action/Adventure - Legend of Zelda
Metroidvania - Metroid (duh)
FPS - Metroid Prime
Action RPG - Xenoblade
Tactical RPG - Fire Emblem, Mario + Rabbids (and Codename: STEAM if somehow it gets sequel)
Monster Collector RPG - Pokemon
RTS - Pikmin (will fight anyone on this genre classification)
Kart Racer - Mario Kart
Platform Fighter - Smash Bros
2D Fighter - Pokken
3D Fighter - also Pokken
Survival Horror - Fatal Frame
Rhythm - Rhythm Heaven
3rd Person Shooter - Splatoon
Space Combat - Star Fox
Rail Shooter - also Star Fox, maybe Kid Icarus again in future (RIP Sin and Punishment
Creation series - Mario Maker
Action - Bayonetta (Nintendo publishes, so gonna count)
Puzzle - Pushmo, Box Boy, Snipperclips
Party - Mario Party, Mario and Sonic
Life Sim - Animal Crossing
Notable missing:
Traditional JRPG - ??? (Golden Sun)
Non-kart Racer - ??? (F-Zero, Waverace, Star Fox leak)
Stealth - ??? (actually don't care if Nintendo touches this one)
we could also stand to get these back:
Traditional Modern-day JRPG - ??? (Earthbound)
Modern-day tactics game - ??? (Advance Wars, Codename: STEAM)
Skyblade12
Banned via Warnings
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Traditional RPG - Mario and Luigi series.It's kinda a glaring blindspot in their lineup honestly.
Simple 2D Platformer - Mario, Kirby, Yoshi
More technical 2D Platformer - DKC
3D Platformer - 3D Mario
Action/Adventure - Legend of Zelda
Metroidvania - Metroid (duh)
FPS - Metroid Prime
Action RPG - Xenoblade
Tactical RPG - Fire Emblem, Mario + Rabbids (and Codename: STEAM if somehow it gets sequel)
Monster Collector RPG - Pokemon
RTS - Pikmin (will fight anyone on this genre classification)
Kart Racer - Mario Kart
Platform Fighter - Smash Bros
2D Fighter - Pokken
3D Fighter - also Pokken
Survival Horror - Fatal Frame
Rhythm - Rhythm Heaven
3rd Person Shooter - Splatoon
Space Combat - Star Fox
Rail Shooter - also Star Fox, maybe Kid Icarus again in future (RIP Sin and Punishment
Creation series - Mario Maker
Action - Bayonetta (Nintendo publishes, so gonna count)
Puzzle - Pushmo, Box Boy, Snipperclips
Party - Mario Party, Mario and Sonic
Life Sim - Animal Crossing
Notable missing:
Traditional JRPG - ??? (Golden Sun)
Non-kart Racer - ??? (F-Zero, Waverace, Star Fox leak)
Stealth - ??? (actually don't care if Nintendo touches this one)
we could also stand to get these back:
Traditional Modern-day JRPG - ??? (Earthbound)
Modern-day tactics game - ??? (Advance Wars, Codename: STEAM)
You know. The series that made them decide to ruin Paper Mario because “Mario didn’t need two RPGs”.
NessAtc.
Fukou Da...
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Mario and Luigi isn't really a traditional RPG is the thing
LasermasterA
Smash Champion
Ugh that decision was horrible, please don't remind me <_<
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Skyblade12
Banned via Warnings
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I know.
If they only wanted to keep one of those series, they chose the wrong one.
Billybae10K
Smash Ace
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It definitely feels like a lot of these suggestions would change Golden Sun to the point where it wouldn't be the same game that we all fell in love with. I do, however, agree that the job system should be more fleshed out in terms of being explained to the player. It was fun to mess around with in the GBA games and in Dark Dawn, but at the same time the game never really told you how these different classes worked.
I always found them a little confusing as a kid so I stuck to a very vanilla configuration of Venus Djinn with Venus Adepts, etc, etc.
Isaac: Venus Adept
Smash Lord
Changing Golden Sun into an action RPG would alienate long time fans too much and take away the staple combat of the series, the experimentation with the djinn class system is also another feature that made Golden Sun so good for me, the process was simple enough for me to use on my first playthrough, maybe collectable scrolls would be a good new idea for newer players to see what job's they can get from a combination but that's it. Everything else he says is basic stuff like better graphics and voice acting.
I stand corrected. If it was just the Monster design or if more people were listed in these sections I could have belived he was listed for his work on the previous games being used again in Dark Dawn but it doesn't seem to be the case.
I still believe Golden Sun can continue without him, but it probably increases the chances of seeing changes in several artistic aspects of the franchise (Does this sentence sounds like a tongue twister or is it just me?).
Same opinion as the others there. Besides an improvement of the graphics (not in the style) and possibly the controls, the rest seems bad, especially to change the class system.
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DogManStar
Smash Ace
I think Isaac had a better shot for Brawl than he did for 4, honestly. With 4, despite Dark Dawn's relevance, the game's lack of success in comparison to the older installments probably made Nintendo think that no one cared about the games anymore. I wouldn't call Dark Dawn a failure, but Camelot has Mario sports, which is probably an all-around better option for them financially, so they don't just keep making Golden Suns regardless of how successful they are. In Brawl, Isaac's last two games were still not so far out of mind. The planning for the game would have taken place around the mid-2000s iirc, meaning that Isaac would still be in the minds of players and Nintendo, and his last game (The Lost Age) had performed fairly well at that point. Unfortunately, with Brawl, there were still a lot of big characters that hadn't been included in a Smash game yet that were more important than Isaac, like Diddy and Wario. I think if characters like those had already been in Smash before Brawl, Isaac would have been in. With 4, I think Isaac was lower priority than the characters that ended up making it in, even if some of them were less popular than he was, because his series has no future. Sakurai has gone on record saying that this is very bad for a character's chances. Regardless of Isaac's popularity, it wouldn't matter in the end, because he had no future. Hopefully with this game though, we will end up seeing him despite the seeming lack of a future for the Golden Sun series, because there seems to be a bigger emphasis on doing what the fans want. People still want Isaac, even though his games seem to have no future.
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Bassoonist
Smash Master
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Yup, not anymore. The series has veered off into its own direction, meanwhile Nintendo ruined the Paper Mario games "because there can't be two Mario RPGs".
It reminds me quite a bit of the dishonesty with the 3D Mario series for the years before Odyssey came around. Where all of the games - Galaxy/3D Land/3D World had linear level designs, but Nintendo disingenuously talked as if Galaxy didn't, and claimed it was exactly like 64/Sunshine.
This is all off-topic, but this is why I can't help but be concerned when I see Game Freak trying to split the Pokemon franchise into two series. Because I've already seen two instances of Nintendo doing this and it turning out really badly. I mean, Odyssey happened, but it took TEN years. And Paper Mario hasn't even been that lucky. Paper Mario probably will never come back at this rate. =(
But this is a Golden Sun topic... Funny I feel similarly sad about Paper Mario as I do Golden Sun. But they're different circumstances. Golden Sun is just plain absent, whereas Paper Mario is still 'around' but is a completely empty husk of what it once was.
Organization XIII
Smash Champion
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I wouldn't feel too bad for Paper Mario just yet. Sure Sticker Star was abysmal and nothing can undo the tragedy of it being made but Color Splash was a step in the right direction sort of. It didn't fix the main problems of Sticker which were: only Toad NPCs, battles being completely pointless and having a crap system, and no story but it did improve on all those areas. The toads had actual personality and were fun to talk to, the battles had some purpose even though the card system was still stupid and while it didn't have a compelling narrative the individual levels contained interesting scenarios so that it was less about the destination and more about the journey. It's still nowhere as good as Super or TTYD the pinnacle titles of the series but it was much better than the game before it. It at least shows they still have some ability to make decent games. We may not get the legendary game where they combine the elements of Super and TTYD and make a truly unforgettable title but the series can at least return to form.
NoOtherPersona
Smash Lord
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I honestly don't know why they didn't just fuse Super and the Thousand Year Door together it just seemed like a natural mix. Those two mixed together and do something new would be a Powerhouse Unstoppable
ferioku
Smash Ace
This is a little weird guys but I literally had a dream the other day that displayed a bunch of newcomers and Isaac become one of them, then all of a sudden he got downgraded into a trophy LOL. Was pretty weird but oh well.
Isaac: Venus Adept
Smash Lord
Yeah heavy Smash speculation gives me weird dreams as well, once I had a weirdly detailed dream where Isaac was confirmed to be playable and his main gimmick was to switch between each of the four djinns using a taunts which drastically change his stats like Shulk and specials as well as the djinn having a different summon as a final smash for each element such as Judgement for Venus, Tiamat for Mars, Thor for Jupiter and Boreas for Mercury. On the other hand I had another dream where Isaac returned as an assist trophy but they gave him his Dark Dawn design where he used the same move psynergy as Brawl as well as new move being quake where he slammed the ground in front of him and three rock pillars come out in front of him
ferioku
Smash Ace
That second dream of yours triggers me LOL. Yeah you're right speculation's do tend to get me thinking, especially since Sakurai said there aren't too many newcomers. It really wouldn't be hard to make a move set for him, in my honest opinion he has one of the easiest movesets to make due to his massive movepool xD. Saying you just never know what will happen, guess we just gotta give it time xP
Enchess
Smash Lord
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I think it partially depends on if Sakurai does that thing where he bases the moveset on what a character conceptually is (spellsword in this case) or if he bases it more on the character's in game abilities. If conceptually based, Isaac won't seem unique because of Robin, which may hurt his chances. If based on his actual game, it's obvious he wouldn't fight like anyone on the roster and has so many potential moves you could likely get by without a single move people would claim is cloned from another character (not even a loose 'cloned' move like Arcfire from PK Fire).
I'm of the opinion that his actual game moveset matters more, but as K Rool arguments have taught me quite a few people here don't think Sakurai will use the actual in-game moves for new characters and will instead make new ones based solely on appearance. Looking at Ridley and Inkling, Inkling fits the based on in-game moves while Ridley feels half and half, so who knows.